KrelosDarksky Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 300K??? Are you serious? That is ridiculously stupid. In lieu of having a dual spec for the time being, they NEED to put a reasonable cap on respec costs. Something like 50K is where it should cap and that should be after many respecs. I agree. There are certain features from other games, that have become an accepted standard these days. Dual speccing is one of them. Or maybe someone (ie the OP) should learn to play and/or roll different toons for his experiments or alternate support roles. 300k is rediculous because A) the OP made it that bad on purpose and B) ... who the hell pays even HALF that unless they have already found a means of easy credits (points at slicer .. ahem .. OP)? in which case the entire thread is moot. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrelosDarksky Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 its the vocal minority like this that meant in this game i wont be tanking. GL finding healers and tanks with this sort of attitude in the game. BTW, tanks i seen so far in 2 weeks of gaming are utter ****. Yeah .. we can't all be as UBER as you. I guess I'll role another toon and make him my tank and just learn to be as good as you. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joscomi Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 If the intent was to keep characters in one role, they wouldn't have included a respec NPC at all. If the respec agent wasn't designed for unlimited spec changes, there would be a hard limit (not soft, i.e. monetary). The point you're missing is that having the respec agent at all, kind of negates your whole argument unless there are hard limits. Which there aren't. Again, farming the credits and running back to the NPC is tedium for no appreciable purpose other than tedium. It may stop some people from respec'ing often, but not others. So its really a tax on those who like to diversify. And, I'll add this again, for no good reason. It doesn't negatively impact your gameplay at all. Not even a little bit. after 100,000 credits to change spec, i would call that a very limiting factor in changing specs On the negative impact issue.... Will it impact you if I can change AC? Will it negatively affect you if I can just role a lvl 50 if i dont feel like leveling? Does it negatively affect you if I can buy credits for cash? Does it negatively affect you if I can buy raid gear for cash? Just because I think these are good ideas and should be implemented (which I dont) doesnt mean they are good ideas, and that it doesnt rain on everyone else's parade. Follow the logic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddeth Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Why ... why is it a standard not to play as you wish ? Pls give me the negative from playing a game the way you want ? Does changing specs alot hurt anyone ? I simply wish to level for a few then pvp for a few ... is that so wrong? you knew this coming into the game if you even did the minimal amount of research. get over it you must, or be unhappy you will. personally respecing is pointless, if you can't figure out how to play one way what makes you think you can another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joscomi Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 after 100,000 credits to change spec, i would call that a very limiting factor in changing specs On the negative impact issue.... Will it impact you if I can change AC? Will it negatively affect you if I can just role a lvl 50 if i dont feel like leveling? Does it negatively affect you if I can buy credits for cash? Does it negatively affect you if I can buy raid gear for cash? Just because I think these are good ideas and should be implemented (which I dont) doesnt mean they are good ideas, and that it doesnt rain on everyone else's parade. Follow the logic... I should add that those vendors are only in game to prevent the load of addressing wrong skill choices and cries for resets. Its to lighten gm loads, nothing more nothing less. Just because there is a candy store down the road, doesnt mean I should get free candy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrelosDarksky Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 after 100,000 credits to change spec, i would call that a very limiting factor in changing specs. Actually I would call that extreme and maybe the person with that many respecs needs to roll additional toons and/or learn to play the profession he plays better or research it for 2 minutes before jumping ship over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and ................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matte_Black Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 People need to negotiate a build that is a compromise or level two characters. The respec is there as an out for mistakes or nerfs not, as a means to flip/flop between builds. If you think you are entitled to be optimized at all times, you have chosen the wrong game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Miranda_ Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 But the logic most of the pro dual spec'ers miss, is the respec vendor is only there if you picked the wrong choices in your tree. It gives you a limited amount of chances before it costs so much and it forces you to take one role. That respec vendor isnt designed in the game to allow for unlimited spec changes, to swith role to role. It is only there for mistakes. The cost is a balancing agent for a spec change in a game designed to keep characters in one role. Follow the logic? I understand why it's there. I'd like it not to be there. I'm fine with a tank spec in PvP, but I feel for the raid healers who want to dps on occasion. I suspect a lot of people shy away from builds that are not solo or PvP viable for this reason. Having more tanks and healers is a GOOD thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisslanza Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I understand why it's there. I'd like it not to be there. I'm fine with a tank spec in PvP, but I feel for the raid healers who want to dps on occasion. I suspect a lot of people shy away from builds that are not solo or PvP viable for this reason. Having more tanks and healers is a GOOD thing. Tanking and healing is entirely viable to solo with though, due to companions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_ Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 There is no viable reason for dual speccing in this game.. Healers and tanks all do respectable DPS.. You can PVP in your PVE specc.. That is actually how Bioware intended it.. So.. There simply is no logical reason for dual speccing of any kind.. ^ this Also i appreciated that bioware made every role useful in pvp especially tanks. Sith Warrior PvP tank = awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satpolpp Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 If a lot of people doesnt agree with dual spec, perhaps lower the respeccing cost cap a wee bit? Say, probably 15k credits each change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunthex Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 after all I need 200k for the 40k mount! Yeah, inflation is TOTALLY out of control these days isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob-ombaFett Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) I made something for you to help your cause. http://i.imgur.com/ifyOY.jpg (btw... anybody know how to post images on these forums? apparently my usual methods seem to not work here) Edited December 29, 2011 by Bob-ombaFett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taskumatti Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 The way I see this thing is that those on the side of dual-spec would like to make the gameplay more casual. You want to do lots of stuff with one character, and see no problem in switching on the run. Those opposing the lenient respecs, or dual specs, on the other hand (judging from some of the comments at least, most of the arguments are ********), want to keep more specialized characters in. After all you can play several characters and don't need to do everything with the same one. Or feel that the choices in character development are destroyed if easy respeccing or dual-speccing was possible. Dual-specs promote a more casual playstyle, where you don't need to play multiple characters to enjoy all aspects of the game, and to want that is fine in my opinion. But for me casualization of World of Warcraft ruined the game, made it too easy. I never got to majority on end game raiding but for me the willingness to maybe someday get there kept me going. Making the game more casual, and easy in a way, made the game boring. I would not want to see casualization happen with this game as well. At least not on the scale it did with WoW. I realize it's a slippery slope to claim dual-specs would lead to complete casualization of the games difficulty, but I'd rather not encourage such development at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisslanza Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 If a lot of people doesnt agree with dual spec, perhaps lower the respeccing cost cap a wee bit? Say, probably 15k credits each change? The thing is the respec is meant to be expensive. The idea of allowing respecs was to allow the player to tweak their build if they made a mistake. It wasn't meant to be a thing where you could keep changing it whenever you felt like it. Having such a low cap just encourages people to keep changing their builds constantly, which isn't the original idea behind a respec. While a cap is reasonable, it still has to be high enough to discourage constant respecing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerumble Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I'm all for specs having meaning, however, there are 3 tank specs, 3 healing specs, and 14 dps specs. In a given group, there is 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 dps. There is an obvious distribution problem that dual spec helps to solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisslanza Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I'm all for specs having meaning, however, there are 3 tank specs, 3 healing specs, and 14 dps specs. In a given group, there is 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 dps. There is an obvious distribution problem that dual spec helps to solve. There's only a problem if you assume people would use their "off-spec" as healer or tank, instead of using it for a "PvP" spec or just another DPS one. In WoW maybe, it'd work like that. But even healing or tank spec is very easy to solo with in ToR. There's no reason to spec DPS unless you intend to DPS - or you want to finish killing something a few seconds faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanSnowWolf Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Theres totaly no reason trying to have point, ppl just repeating themselfs without even thinking second over others opinions. So tell me, why is there even respec? My respec cost is atm over 300k credits because i respeced few times to heal guildies. How do you call that? I call that punished. I call it abusing the piss out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zootzoot Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 If the intent was to keep characters in one role, they wouldn't have included a respec NPC at all. If the respec agent wasn't designed for unlimited spec changes, there would be a hard limit (not soft, i.e. monetary). The point you're missing is that having the respec agent at all, kind of negates your whole argument unless there are hard limits. Which there aren't. Again, farming the credits and running back to the NPC is tedium for no appreciable purpose other than tedium. It may stop some people from respec'ing often, but not others. So its really a tax on those who like to diversify. And, I'll add this again, for no good reason. It doesn't negatively impact your gameplay at all. Not even a little bit. My thoughts as well. These are QoL issues. As long as the option to respec exists there is no hard choice being made. It's foolish to argue against Dual Specs as long as someone can go to the Fleet and respec whenever they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassatella Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 the game just needs dual spec, that way i can heal for flashpoints if i can't find a healer, and dps for questing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren_Kitlor Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Games should have choices. Choices that have impact. ITs one of the reasons im extremely thankful for my AC respec, and why talent respecs NEED a price. You want to level then pvp, do it as the same spec, or do it less often, or suck it up, and pay for it. You could tell yourself that. However, SWTOR's second most popular competitor (RIFT) lets you have three, on-the-fly specs that you can switch between as you fancy. The choices do matter: because you have builds that suit each type of gameplay you choose to play that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godsfear Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I PLAY ONE TOON IN A MMO I PLAY THAT TOON SO MUCH I LOVE HER. SHE IS MY ALTER EGO I LIKE TO THEORYCRAFT AND EXPERIMENT. MY FAVORITE PART OF A MMO IS THEORYCRAFT AND LEARNING ABOUT HIDDEN SYNERGY. WHY WOULD YOU PUNISH ME FOR ENJOYING MYSELF. I DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR RP. GO PRETEND YOU'ER GANDALF WITH YOUR FRIENDS. I PLAY TO MIN MAX. I wrote this in caps since many of you seem to misunderstand why I want to play a game the way I like to play since I'm paying for it. If you would like to tell me how to spec then please send a check made out to GODMONEY, on the Prophecy of five server. Until then you can stuff it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolliipopp Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Why ... why is it a standard not to play as you wish ? Pls give me the negative from playing a game the way you want ? Does changing specs alot hurt anyone ? I simply wish to level for a few then pvp for a few ... is that so wrong? It's the same as saying today i want to be an astronaut but tomorrow i will work at a hospital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belialle Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) Being able to respec easily doesn't rob us of meaningful choices. What a silly argument. What it actually does is give us an opportunity to have more variety in how we choose to play our characters. I really like my Operative, and I'd like to experience all that it has to offer. I love running around as a stealthy melee in the world and in PvP. I am perfectly willing to heal FPs, and in fact would even enjoy it.....but I'm not at all willing to spend a lot of credits on respecs. Consequently, I don't heal. My time is valuable, and I'm just not interested in grinding out credits when I could be having fun. Edited December 29, 2011 by belialle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) Hey numbskulls! Dual Speccing is something we want to add soon after launch. Also, features like Guard, PvP Taunt, Resolve, etc. work to narrow the gap between PvP and PvE specialized skills (i.e. a +Block skill would be helpful in both PvE and PvP). http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110916 /thread I win! Edited December 29, 2011 by AlpsStranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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