Rage is more DPS period simply because most fights have you charging around and your dps windows are broken up. The less time on target you have, the more DPS rage does over Veng. Not to mention, burst is quite useful in pve. (One shotting mouse bots on Karagga being a perfect example)

DPS is actually very well done at the end game from all the spreadsheets and in game testing on world bosses. Rage Juggs actually have the highest theoretical DPS potential for all Sith warriors but doing the rotation perfectly its close to inhuman. Vengeance/Anni/Carnage are all very very close. One of the few things this game has done exceptionally well!

I'm starting to think making Savagery work on Ravage instead of Force Scream would kill two birds with one stone - it would take Scream out of the rotation and make Rampage a killer talent.

Yeah I hate this.. you should be able to toggle Protons like you toggle Power Converter.

People need to stop stick manning the argument. By all means, if you love Ravage, use it to your hearts content, but it's a dps loss because one Ravage is less damage than any combination of key rage spending abilities.. and since it doesn't generate rage, within the cooldown of Shatter/Impact, you need to Sundering Assault twice. This leaves ONE gcd. Thus the whole one GCD Ravage strategy where you let the first two hits go through, interrupt it and hit something of higher priority. Of course this happens rarely because you often need to use Smash or Assault in this filler to afford your next cycle. If Shien form generated 1 rage per 6 seconds while in combat instead of being attacked, it might allow you to Ravage. If Savagery worked on Rampage instead of Force Scream, it would also make a full channel worthwhile. Finally, Ravage generating Rage would actually allow you to sub out Sundering Assault whenever Ravage is available (sometimes). 4pc Vindicator replaces one generic Assault every ~3 shatters.. just not enough to include a full Ravage. I still think the 1 second Ravage is worth fitting in when you have excess rage due to Enrage or Deadly Reprisal.. but I digress, it's very clunky. If you really like Ravage, play Rage, it's always a DPS increase there!

It's really just about properly excluding abilities in a given spec. The Sundering Assault/Assault thing is clunky but I can sort of understand it. However, if the appropriate talents in each tree (Shien Form itself and Endless Rage) gave you rage for just being in combat instead of being attacked, you could probably just drop Assault altogether. One down. Pummel + Savage Kick? I've argued since beta stuff like this is a mistake. They're interesting while you level.. then you get to level 50 and take them off your bar because they cease to work on anything meaningful. You could make the argument that Force Leap/Intercede should just be one button, that there must be a better way to make Enrage other than "heres more .. umm.. rage", but these are pretty big changes to mechanics. I mean, why doesn't the Shatter Dot roll? Savagery should work on Ravage, not Force Scream. I feel like when I respec from Rage to Vengeance I just replace Oblit > Shatter and Force Crush > Impact and.. press all the same buttons. This is what causes the ability bloat .. the talent trees don't buff their respective abilities to make other ones unattractive. Rage should be Oblit, Crush, Choke(needs a buff for rage imo) Smash and Scream. Vengeance should be Shatter, Impact, Ravage, Vicious Strike and Vicious Throw. Thats all you gotta do.. shave off a button or two and things get much cleaner.

From Sithwarrior>> The best DPS I could crank out of the Rage rotation was as follows 5/5/31 Ragenaut Battle Cry saves you 96 rage in 5 minutes and this rotation is essentially GCD locked, I don't see Dreadnaught overtaking Battle Cry until way down the line. There might be a Force Scream-less rotation that works as Vicious Strike has slightly better damage per rage but you lose range flexibility and of course have to deal with the awful Vicious Strike animation. Sunder stacks fall all the time so I took Improved Sundering Assault but really those points can go anywhere you like .. same with the points in Interceptor. Gravity Well/Intimidation are good spots, Unbreakable Rage isn't bad either. Saber Throw > Force Leap > Sundering Assault > Force Crush/Choke > Obliterate > Smash > Scream > Retaliation > Ravage > Enrage > Assault -No Vicious Strike (Not surprising) -Sundering Assault on cooldown, (talented) Enrage on cooldown, Choke on cooldown, throw in around 2-3 Assaults per minute and there is enough rage gain for the rotation to be slightly net positive but only barely. 4pc Vindicator and additional Force Leaps give significant room for error. -You only delay Smash if Obliterate is coming off cooldown (or a Leap opportunity is coming) and you have 3+ Shockwave stacks, otherwise use on CD. -You only need one GCD between Crush and Smash to get the full benefit. The Shockwave stacks are calculated at animation completion, not key press. -Vicious Throw replaces non Battle Cry Force Screams in execute range. 4pc Vindicator lets you use it on cooldown as filler after Scream but before Ravage. -When you get 4pc Vindicator, Saber Throws replace Sundering. This is also when Retaliation becomes your best rage dump. You cannot afford the GCDs of Vicious Strike but you will be rage positive. -Rage spec does not need Endless Rage to maintain the rotation but since you will sometimes miss a key Sundering Assault it really helps. - It's always a DPS gain to Ravage as close to cooldown as possible, even if you can only do the first two hits before something stronger becomes available. The more you stagger your force cooldowns the easier the rotation is to manage but you get less Ravage which is a DPS loss. - In actual combat scenarios, you are better off wasting some Rage than delaying any key cooldowns. For instance, if you have 10 rage and Sundering comes off cooldown, it's better to just Sunder and waste the one rage than to delay Sundering via Vicious Strike. Retaliation, however, is always fair game. All in all, Rage Juggs are on paper better DPS than Vengeance but with a very high skill cap (godly cooldown management). The more you can Force Leap without DPS loss, the better the spec performs compared to Vengeance. Vengeance is better when there is less Sunder Armor. By the time you're in Columi gear, you're better off replacing all your Crit/Surge Enhancements with Power/X as the DRs on Crit/Surge kick in at 300/200 and Power is already your best stat after Strength.

Vengeance is simply too rage hungry to afford 3 seconds of no rage generation. When you're not hitting Shatter/Impale/Scream (that's 4.5s every 9s) you need to be doing 2 Sundering Assaults (3s of 9s). That gives you ONE GCD per cycle to use something else.. say Assault to pad your rage or Smash for extra damage. Ravage never fits in this rotation. You either delay a key dps ability or you delay your rage generators which ultimately results in delaying a key dps ability. Contrast this with Unload or Force Lightning where you basically want it to it on cooldown as much as possible. Either Rampage needs to proc a channel haste (contract it to 1.5s channel) or Ravage needs to replace Sundering Assault/Assault as a rage generating tool. Oh and it should ALWAYS be channel on the move.

Ravage needs two of the following things- a) Generates rage per tick b) Swing on the move c) Flat out more damage It so pitiful compared to Unload/Full Auto and Force Lightning/TK throw

1-second Ravage trick makes Ravage a DPS gain for Vengeance because for some reason it only triggers a 1 second GCD as well. However, and this is a big however, Vengeance is so rage hungry that only when you get 4pc Vindicators/Force Leaps/have Enrage up can you take advantage of Ravage in this way without potentially delaying your next Shatter/Scream/Impale. This is all divined from the Sith Warrior DPS spreadsheet that came out, so take it with a grain of salt as the bugs are worked out. As a funny aside, Ravage is a huge DPS gain for Rage PvE specs. Go figure! TL;DR Ravage needs a massive buff.

Ravage is not a DPS loss if you interrupt it after the first two quick attacks which happen in the first second. In other news, Ravage should generate rage.

The problem with Sundering Assault not having a CD is that it would completely replace Assault unless it did less damage... AKA that's exactly what it should do. End of discussion!

Biochem is still by far the best tradeskill for any serious end game PvP or PvE application. Reusable Adrenals and medpacks alone tip the scale. Would be really nice to see each crafting profession get similar in-combat effective use.

Every class in this game suffers from ability bloat and contributes to the whole "This would have been great in 2007" feeling. My 50 Jugg PvPs with 27 keybinds (not including buffs, consumables, guard, etc) and the game just launched. The real culprit is excessive cooldowns on spec abilities forcing you to use baseline class abilities as filler. When I'm level 50 and 31 point invested in a tree, the abilities I get should be more powerful/interesting nreplacements of some of my baseline skills, not merely additional.

The amount of damage you can take on each successive upgrade without being knocked off is huge.