Maintenance: October 24th, 2017

[DanNV]

Eric, I have seen a lot of really poor communication from BW, but this post has to be right up there with the worst of them.

 

Failing to communicate ahead of time is a BW hallmark for anything BW knows is going to explode. Anyone with any knowledge of how networking works and how fast light travels through glass could tell you the game was going to be a lot worse for people in the APAC region and a bit worse for people on the West Coast who are used to much shorter ping. Saying it wouldn't effect game play was an outright lie, and BW knew it was a lie before it was posted.

 

If one server would be too busy, that means you aren't really doing megaservers, you're just doing a couple of your old normal servers. That means you have a lot less players than BW tries to claim. Putting them in VA, was a really bad decision since it negatively effects your APAC paying customers a LOT. I assume that was known ahead of time and BW decided losing them was a lower cost than keeping a West Coast data center.

 

How about being honest and admitting there isn't a thing BW can do about increased ping for anyone. You might be able to fix server side lag spikes, but that's about it. Admit people used to a 20 ms ping are now going to have to get used to an 80 - 100 ms ping and people from Australia are going to have to get used to 300+ ms ping (They're unsubbing anyway, the least BW could do is be honest with them.)

 

Then how about telling us how long the game can last at it's current rate of decline so we can decide if it's worth spending any more money on it. That type of honesty would be a really nice change.

 

Hey folks,

 

As many of you know, on Tuesday Keith explained that in preparation for United Forces we moved all current west coast servers into our Virginia data center. Here’s some of the key questions we have received about the North American datacenter change:

 

Why not communicate this ahead of time?

We made the decision to not communicate this information ahead of time because we wanted you to have the ability to immediately login and determine the impact to your gameplay experience. This meant we could quickly start gathering feedback on what you were seeing in-game (more on this in the next question). However, we have seen posts from players who made specific decisions based on location (such as character transfers) and we will be in touch with them to discuss. To ensure there is no confusion about this update in-game, we adjusted the server selection screen to reflect that all NA servers are on the east coast.

 

My ping has gone up since the change and it is affecting my gameplay, what options do I have?

Please continue to report it! As Keith mentioned in his forum post this is something we are actively tracking and working with our network partners to address where possible. We will be working through this especially over the next two weeks as we ramp up to United Forces.

 

Could there be one data center in the Central US so that pings are more even for each coast?

Creating an entirely new datacenter is a daunting task, even above and beyond the substantial changes we have already made this year. This just isn’t something that was viable in the scope of the changes we made for United Forces.

 

Since all of NA is in one datacenter, shouldn’t we just have one server?

Moving all of NA together would create a very heavily populated server. This would introduce several challenges: 1) Players would likely experience queues accessing the server and 2) It would increase the chances for server instability and downtime. There are also a variety of other issues, but a key concern was combining all of North America would result in substantially more character name collisions.

 

We hope this answers some of your questions and lets you know what’s going to happen over the next couple weeks. Please remember, on November 8th we will move all players to their new servers during an extended maintenance (currently looking like 12 hours). We are also discussing starting a few hours earlier than usual (e.g., 2 or 3am CT), but will let you know a few days beforehand.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

[Tadagyt]

I'm not an APAC player, and not impacted negatively by the servers being on the east coast. However, I am a player who, in the future, is going to have doubts about what's said by devs concerning the game because of this situation.

 

It takes time to build trust. One action (or in this case, inaction) can undermine that trust.

 

Same here... I'm not posting about it, but I'm watching and I'm horrified.

[JennyFlynn]

Hey folks,

 

As many of you know, on Tuesday Keith explained that in preparation for United Forces we moved all current west coast servers into our Virginia data center. Here’s some of the key questions we have received about the North American datacenter change:

 

Why not communicate this ahead of time?

We made the decision to not communicate this information ahead of time because we wanted you to have the ability to immediately login and determine the impact to your gameplay experience. This meant we could quickly start gathering feedback on what you were seeing in-game (more on this in the next question). However, we have seen posts from players who made specific decisions based on location (such as character transfers) and we will be in touch with them to discuss. To ensure there is no confusion about this update in-game, we adjusted the server selection screen to reflect that all NA servers are on the east coast.

 

...

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

I'm disappointed to hear this was deliberately kept from the players until the last possible moment. Though I can understand why this information was withheld, it's not really honest. It sets a precedent in which we as a playerbase now KNOW we cannot trust your word and we cannot put our faith in your company's statements.

 

You stated in the News update of 10.2.2017:

The United Forces update expands your connection to a galactic-sized community of players. We will be integrating our existing seventeen servers to five new servers, one for each existing region and language. Our goal is to make this experience as simple and rewarding as possible.

"Each existing region" which implies East Coast AND West Coast as those were existing regions at the time of your post, not just East Coast. This is misleading on your part and if your plans had changed between posting that update and now then you should have informed the playerbase regardless of the risk you'd rile up doomsayers and chaos.

 

Now for me personally, my pings overall on every server have improved so I'm "one of the lucky ones" in this scenario but that doesn't change the fact I am utterly disappointed in the manner in which you've handled this. This is extremely poor, negligent, deceptive and ignorant decision making on your part Bioware. It's not a way to do business.

[TUXs]

Same here... I'm not posting about it, but I'm watching and I'm horrified.

Great word to use here...I feel the same way.

[Quraswren]

No, Eric. Just no. You intentionally gave wrong information post-maintenance. You don't just "discover" that it would be better to combine server infrastructures. You don't just on a whim decide combine American datacenters without prior notice or negotiation with said datacenters. You knew, the datacenter knew.

 

You lied to your customers.

 

Anyone else have any doubt now?

 

Anyone really want to come to the defense of bioware given how this has played out and what it has done not only to the community but to the gamers.

 

About as underhanded as one can get.

 

Or it translates to,,, we wanted to keep you all subbed for as long as we could because we knew you would unsub after we told you...

This way we got you to pay or use all your cc’s to transfer to servers that will be in the same place

This way we can charge more when people want to swap servers

We got people to resub because we told them there would be a server in each region and we wanted to get the last bit of milk out of the APAC players before we shafted them....

 

I want to yell and scream and rage... but the will has been knocked out of me... it’s obvious they do not care that they lied to us because they decided in advance to lie.... anything we say to them will be ignore and probably laughed at...

The jokes on us... we all got trolled hard...

 

Thats about as accurate as it gets and people around here wonder why swtor gamers are jaded.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Quraswren

[KragCulloden]

This way we got you to pay or use all your cc’s to transfer to servers that will be in the same place

This way we can charge more when people want to swap servers

We got people to resub because we told them there would be a server in each region and we wanted to get the last bit of milk out of the APAC players before we shafted them....

 

All this. Pure trash business practices. Nothing but scum.

[Icykill_]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's because of the "fake news" part. I said that once and got an infraction for it as it's something political. Sortta.

 

OMG... really... I’m surprised most of us havent been banned at one point or another for structuring our posts in a political manner

 

I just found this definition online that is being added to the dictionary next year - fake news: false news stories, often of a sensational nature, created to be widely shared online for the purpose of generating ad revenue...

 

 

That definition isn’t far from the truth when you use it the way she did.... it was a false story (dev post... so in game news)... it was sensationalised because of the lies in it.... and it was used to continue to generate revenue...

 

=fake news

Edited October 26, 2017 by Icykill_

[BenKatarn]

This statement pretty much translates to:

 

"We set the house on fire to see if you would call the fire department."

Edited October 26, 2017 by BenKatarn

[Icykill_]

This statement pretty much translates to:

 

"We set the house on fire to see if you would call the fire department."

 

But disconnected the phone and nailed all the doors shut after you were inside

[Eshvara]

OMG... really... I’m surprised most of us havent been banned at one point or another for structuring our posts in a political manner

 

I just found this definition online that is being added to the dictionary next year - fake news: false news stories, often of a sensational nature, created to be widely shared online for the purpose of generating ad revenue...

 

 

That definition isn’t far from the truth when you use it the way she did.... it was a false story (dev post... so in game news)... it was sensationalised because of the lies in it.... and it was used to continue to generate revenue...

 

=fake news

It was actually in one of your threads from earlier this year. But I stopped using it since then as I don't really want

vacations. But as for the word itself, we all do know where it comes from and who started saying it and what it's associated with. Even if it doesn't really have to be political. I guess it's just not something they want to get into on the forums.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Eshvara

[Lxndra]

Oh, Eric. I do not envy you your job right now... you seem like a nice guy and you gotta know you're trying to sell us a @#$ sandwich.

Why not communicate this ahead of time?

We made the decision to not communicate this information ahead of time because we wanted you to have the ability to immediately login and determine the impact to your gameplay experience. This meant we could quickly start gathering feedback on what you were seeing in-game.

"We didn't want you all to rage quit ahead of time before we got our numbers."

 

My ping has gone up since the change and it is affecting my gameplay, what options do I have?

Please continue to report it! As Keith mentioned in his forum post this is something we are actively tracking and working with our network partners to address where possible. (snip)

 

I actually believe that, yes, they are doing their best to mitigate the damage and fallout, but they aren't changing course. The key phrase is "where possible." They'll try to bring down some of the more dramatic spiking issues, but the days of a 21ms ping from San Diego are over. This is the new normal and you're welcome to get used to it - you can have fun in the game without progression raiding, right? Our data show most of you don't do that content anyway...

Edited October 26, 2017 by Lxndra

[Icykill_]

It was actually in one of your threads from earlier this year. But I stopped using it since then as I don't really want

vacations. But as for the word itself, we all do know where it comes from and who started saying it and what it's associated with. Even if it doesn't really have to be political. I guess it's just not something they want to get into on the forums.

 

I guess they better list it in the TOS.... because if you don’t know it’s a “naughty word”... how can you be held responsible...

Or better yet.. they could put it on the bad word list and it can get **** everytime you post it

[Decidion]

Yet another in a very long series of terrible decisions by BioWare that is yet another nail in the coffin of the game.

 

Down the road, people will be able to look back at SWTOR as a prime example of how a companys decisions totally killed a game and earned a reputation of being very inept.

 

There is nothing (or very little) that BioWare, nor thier "network partners" can do about latency/ping problems, since they do not own anything beyond their own hardware/infrastructure. In order for them to really be able to do anything, they would have to have dedicated lines to each of our households.

[Sabachthanus]

So far:

• False Advertising
  
• Failure to Provide Services with Reasonable Care
  

 

Any lawyers with specializations in cybersecurity/cyberlaw have any comments to make on this? Liability?

 

Lying by omission, Mr. Kanneg, is no different from normal lying. I took out a 90 day sub in good faith; namely, that BioWare/EA would provide reasonable services as agreed.

 

You shall get nothing more. Good day, sir!

[SolarSaenz]

...We made the decision to not communicate this information ahead of time......

 

Eric, isn't this supposed to be a time of increased communication?

 

I'm not blaming you personally because I'm sure you can only say or post what you're authorized to, but wasn't the SWTOR team supposed to be improving their communication?

[Jamtas]

Why not communicate this ahead of time?

We made the decision to not communicate this information ahead of time because we wanted you to have the ability to immediately login and determine the impact to your gameplay experience. This meant we could quickly start gathering feedback on what you were seeing in-game (more on this in the next question). However, we have seen posts from players who made specific decisions based on location (such as character transfers) and we will be in touch with them to discuss. To ensure there is no confusion about this update in-game, we adjusted the server selection screen to reflect that all NA servers are on the east coast.

 

just wow. nothing to really say that hasn't been said by others. Looks like the Keith regime is the same as the Ben regime, just with a leader who plays the game.

 

For the second time since this game has been out my sub is cancelled. I'll ride out the time and prob hop into game here and there but I'd rather walk away from the game on my own terms then have it taken from me when the servers get turned off.

 

I'm sorry BW, but when you lie to the player base (and in this case finally admit you did it deliberately) no amount of "we love SW" and "we play the game too" can make up for it.

[Trogusaurus]

No, Eric. Just no. You intentionally gave wrong information post-maintenance. You don't just "discover" that it would be better to combine server infrastructures. You don't just on a whim decide combine American datacenters without prior notice or negotiation with said datacenters. You knew, the datacenter knew.

 

You lied to your customers.

This statement pretty much translates to:

 

"We set the house on fire to see if you would call the fire department."

 

 

+1 to these. Bioware, you've lost another paying customer today, and I'll be viewing any future titles produced by your company with a greater level of skepticism that I do not reserve for many other publishers. Your dishonesty is killing what is left of what was once a great brand.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Trogusaurus

[commanderwar]

I'm not really sure I understand what you're saying...

 

I read it as they wanted to see if anyone really noticed on day one for people who don't read patch notes, see if an actual silent majority has issues and seeks out information and submits tickets.

Edited October 26, 2017 by commanderwar

[ZionHalcyon]

Well. Don't have to worry about APAC players if they all quit.

[Eshvara]

Well. Don't have to worry about APAC players if they all quit.

 

Which is not what we want.

[HKtheindomitable]

Hello. Founding member here, spent hundreds of dollars on this game over the years.

Let me tell you how I feel about this server data center move...

 

 

AARRRGGHHHHH!!!!!!

 

Ive gone from having around 16ms ping to 80ms. The game actually lies to players, stating that you will begin to notice degradation in gameplay at 1 bar (of 4), when many of us can visually see player movement stuttering around 100ms, which is fairly immersion breaking. My ping time to the server has gone up by x5! I'm in California near San Francisco, and have fiber internet. This is horrid, and a back-stab to many of your loyal customers. with no forewarning, or real consideration. Instead a drastic change was done without informing anyone until it was already done to try to prevent what is happening now, the backlash of people who are angry with your decision. After logging in the game I lost my desire to play, and am now seriously considering never playing again despite my investment. Do you understand how big of a deal that is for the continued life of this game and community? Do you realize how this will impact how I (and many others) look at you as a company for the rest of our life?? Some will still play on of course, but for many this anger will be connected to EVERY game you produce.

 

Whoever is in charge of this decision should probably be fired because they have ruined the PR of Bioware. I am connected to many gamers who often want to know what MMOs are fun and viable, well guess what I will tell them about SWTOR and Bioware?

 

Either fix this blunder, or face decades of consequence over this.

 

Hey founding member here too. Chill out!!

 

I have been on an East coast server from the start and within the first year of the game launching, my ISP started installing garbage equipment, didn't know how to fix ANY problem, and eventually dropped us for making a complaint ( which is legally not allowed, especially after abusing the customer). During that time I was doing good if I could do a Google search, let alone log in. I have been on 600ms Satellite internet for almost two years now. I use my phone to tether just so I can have 100ms. LTE, if I can get it, gives me 60maximum. I used to play on 45ms or less. HARD MODE DREAD FORTRESS and NiM SnV on that.

 

If anyone follows you like you think they will, they aren't worth the effort of pleasing because they don't want to think for themselves. But I'm sure most are not that way. Don't overestimate your influence.

 

TL;DR Your ping has gone up, but it is NOT the end of the world. You'll be fine. Believe me.

[HKtheindomitable]

+1 to these. Bioware, you've lost another paying customer today, and I'll be viewing any future titles produced by your company with a greater level of skepticism that I do not reserve for many other publishers. Your dishonesty is killing what is left of what was once a great brand.

 

So you people know what took place because you work there, were present at the time, and personally know all employees?

[Joonbeams]

Hey folks,

 

...

Why not communicate this ahead of time?

We made the decision to not communicate this information ahead of time because we wanted you to have the ability to immediately login and determine the impact to your gameplay experience. This meant we could quickly start gathering feedback on what you were seeing in-game (more on this in the next question)...

 

...

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

(facepalm)

 

It seems the higher ups over there think of much of your playerbase as whiny, raging, spoiled millennials whose opinions don't matter and who can't possibly have anything of value to add to their omniscient, always-right, epic gaming-business knowledge. And that the rest of the base is crack-addicted, abused, battered fans who will continue to tolerate increasing levels of abuse and maltreatment because some Star Wars RPG is better than nothing. So I won't bother trying to offer any business "advice" here - just let me say, as a business owner myself - this is just bad, bad, bad.

 

But for the sake of basic decency, even if you all think we're all just addicted fiends and/or morons, please still try to treat us with some respect and STOP offering up comments like above. It's so obviously untrue that is seems like you're intentionally mocking us. This is what's hardest to stomach for me.

 

Give us the truth or tell us you can't give us the truth. But please stop with the mockery. I think that's a fair request...

[HKtheindomitable]

Hey folks,

 

Cut for length purposes by quoter.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

Thanks Eric. Glad to have some detail. Thank you for being willing to Wade into the toxic pit... I mean the forums to deliver this information. I hope you came out with no burns.

[americanaussie]

Wow. Just wow. Of course there was no alternative but to admit to lying as we all know you lied. But to basically not care about anything past California, that hurts. Us APAC aren't even worthy of an apology? We can't play the game. I mean sure, I'll report it, but we both know it won't change the fact my ping has gone into the red due to distance.

 

I don't like surprises so here's my Christmas present to you. Last year I was spending at the CM, this year I have no choice but to unsub. You might as well combine the servers, you're likely going to lose us APAC players so there won't be a queue.