Commanding Legacy and mirror classes

[Floplag]

Im just back after a year away so i didnt waste a lot of time or anything, BUT... in general i dont see why any restrictions on the specifics of the characters make any sense.

Why does it matter in the slightest to Bio if its a Merc and a Commando for example, its the exact same time invested regardless of class/spec played.

Not everyone likes playing force users, myself included, but it would take the exact same effort to get a Merc, Commando, Operative, and Powertech, which i do enjoy, as it would a Jugg, Sorc, Merc, Sniper many of which i do not.

Im just getting started with the grind, but it would be much more fun to me to be able to do so on characters i like, rather than those i dont.

Forcing me to play things i dont like will discourage me from playing at all.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Floplag

[Lowarro]

Since they made the announcement that you would get an extra 25% for each character, you managed to grind out 2 characters to 300 and another 1 to 200+???? Where do you do your grinding, and is there an exploit we should know about?

 

Kinda find it amazing that you didn't already have those 2 grinded out, you waited until now, but suddenly in the last couple of days you've got almost 3 finished off. Totally amazing.

 

It was called bugged daily mission CXP. ~2600-3000 CXP per mission (including bonuses) per day. Just between Oricon and Yavin there are 30 mission completions that gave the bugged CXP. Running all the dailies each day of the week could definitely make the grind doable. Fixing this bug as the CXP event started (that was scheduled because of the day during the last double CXP event when the game was down all day) already annoyed me quite a bit. This miscommunication (and I really hope that is all it was) on top of it is a problem.

[CrazyCT]

Im just back after a year away so i didnt waste a lot of time or anything, BUT... in general i dont see why any restrictions on the specifics of the characters make any sense.

Why does it matter in the slightest to Bio if its a Merc and a Commando for example, its the exact same time invested.

not everyone likes playing force users, myself included, but it would take the exact same effort to get a Merc, Commando, Operative, and Powertech, which i do enjoy, as it would a Jugg, Sorc, Merc, Sniper many of which i do not.

im just getting started with the grind, but it would be much more fun to me to be able to do so on characters i like, rather than those i dont.

forcing me to play things i dont like will discourage me from playing at all.

 

Probably just easier to implement - it'll be the same mechanic as the current buffs you get for 5% endurance, crit chance etc

[TUXs]

Im just back after a year away so i didnt waste a lot of time or anything, BUT... in general i dont see why any restrictions on the specifics of the characters make any sense.

Why does it matter in the slightest to Bio if its a Merc and a Commando for example, its the exact same time invested.

not everyone likes playing force users, myself included, but it would take the exact same effort to get a Merc, Commando, Operative, and Powertech, which i do enjoy, as it would a Jugg, Sorc, Merc, Sniper many of which i do not.

im just getting started with the grind, but it would be much more fun to me to be able to do so on characters i like, rather than those i dont.

forcing me to play things i dont like will discourage me from playing at all.

BINGO!!! Well said...and welcome back. I saw you online last night too...on Odessan I think? I was buying my train house and ran by you.

[dscount]

I understand WHY they did it (Mostly to figure out how to count 300 levels via achievements), but the actual implementation boils down to being lazy with coding.

 

This was a VERY STUPID decision to make and then add to the fact we find out about it AFTER it goes live is even worse. BAD NEWS Always seems to get left out of Patch Notes and or dropped on the users the LAST day before patching to have no time to provide feedback. WHY is that?

 

The team would have been better off allowing us to purchase 25% more legacy buff up to four times instead.

 

Sorry, but I'm not going level another 300 for another base class I didn't like playing to 70 in the first place. Plus you removed all the dailies so it's a crap shoot now until server mergers when we can level in GF even.

[Quraswren]

Again, you managed to get 2 toons up to a bit under 200 in the last 9/10 months, through several weeks (months?) of having an approved exploit through the daily areas, but suddenly when they announced that you'd get a 25% boost you decided to grind through 200 levels in a couple of days?

 

Yup, It's called getting side tracked and procrastinating. Like I said, nothing amazing and I highly doubt I'm the only one that did it in some way.

 

My spidey senses are tingling

 

I doubt it. Take your meds.

 

SNIP....

 

A lie? Possible, but not proven and I personally am not convinced.

 

Withholding information is the same as lying.

 

Just like the umbaro SH incidence and how that information was withheld. That is also a lie.

 

Same here. That information is to big to have just been missed. SImilar to umbaro information. This information was withheld and thus a lie as well.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Quraswren

[TUXs]

The team would have been better off allowing us to purchase 25% more legacy buff up to four times instead.

 

Sorry, but I'm not going level another 300 for another base class I didn't like playing to 70 in the first place. Plus you removed all the dailies so it's a crap shoot now until server mergers when we can level in GF even.

I would buy it. This would be a fine solution imo. I want to minimize how absolutely terrible the CXP grind is and I will pay real $ to do that.

[Floplag]

Probably just easier to implement - it'll be the same mechanic as the current buffs you get for 5% endurance, crit chance etc

 

Perhaps, maybe likely, still though forcing people to play things they otherwise would not is foolish at best.

I have all classes and spec at 60 or 65, i now have my 2 mains at 70 and have begun the grind on my main. My next plan was the other side, not another class. In fact i didn't plan another non mirror for some time to be honest as even third place would have likely been my PT so this... will directly impact my enjoyment by forcing me to change that plan.

I feel for those that put in the effort based on a vague or incorrect statement made prior to the actual patch though, i would really be disappointed if that was the case.

[Lowarro]

The irony here is that if the exact details were communicated ahead of time or said nothing and just put it in the patch, instead of what was said there would be no problem whatsoever. This is them adding a free bonus to a purchased bonus we already had. The whole problem comes from the fact they communicated one set of requirements for the new bonus and implemented another.

[Glzmo]

The bonuses are additive.

 

So (2 + 0.75) * 75 CXP = 2.75 * 75 CXP = 206.25 CXP --> 206 CXP

 

 

instead of multiplicative like you thought [75 CXP + (75 CXP * 0.75)] * 2 = 1.75 * 2 * 75 CXP = 262.5 CXP.

Your math is wrong. ALL bonuses are additive not multiplicative so.

 

75 + 75(from event) + 56.25= 206 rounded down

Alright, thanks for the clarification. So the double CXP is only applied to the base CXP and not any bonus not on the base CXP and the bonus. Kinda lame, but I guess it is what it is. Edited October 11, 2017 by Glzmo

[Tsillah]

Withholding information is the same as lying..

Sigh, if it's withheld on purpose then yes, but the whole point revolves around whether or not it was withheld on purpuse (intentionally) or not.

 

So what you say changes nothing. There is no conclusive evidence they intended to deceive people.

[Alssaran]

A lie? Possible, but not proven and I personally am not convinced.

 

I am very well convinced it was a lie because technical limitations is blatantly wrong. Many software engineers have pointed this out in this very post. The system can at least distinguish between different base classes that are mirrored. I can log into my sage and get the achievement for Commanding Consular, whereas I will not be awarded the mirrored Inquisitor achievement, which is Commanding Inquisitor.

 

Whatever technical limitation there was on the same base class (i.e Sage and Shadow), it definitely doesn't apply to mirrored classes (i.e Shadow and Assassin). There is a system in place that can accurately read out the amount of base classes in your legacy that have a GC rank of 300. This doesn't solve the issue of having the same base class on 300 multiple times, but it solves the issue of people having mirrored characters.

 

You cannot tell me, who trained as a software engineer before switching fields, that there was no possible way to write a function, SQL query/function or other method to distinguish between the mirrored base classes when there apparently is a function to do this for the achievement system. The perk is tied to the achievement system as a perk. While they might not work on the same layer, they can certainly interact with each other.

 

There is no apparent reason to have it be restricted to pre-300 characters either. The system can clearly support giving bonuses to post-300 characters, as is apparent with the stacking +10% buff on GCXP within the legacy system. If I was really malicious, I would guess that the person who coded the perk built in an if clause that checks whether the character's command rank is at 300, and if it is, it doesn't grant the bonus GCXP.

 

You might also remember that the server name "Hot Prospect" couldn't be changed due to technical limitations just a week ago. When the complaints started to flood in, the server name was promptly changed to "Satele Shan."

 

As four software engineers have already pointed out, two of which probably more senior than me because I have five years of experience working in high-demand coding for large company applications, there is no apparent technical limitation on any of this if the person coding it put in thought and effort. And if there is, I'd love for that developer to come on stream and explain the technical limitation while we listen. Let's see if it holds up to scrutiny. It's improbable or nigh impossible that the system can't run an SQL request to check the base classes as mirrored, considering it already does that in the achievement system. The achievement system can set flags and grant rewards (titles, coins, decorations), so they could easily set a flag.

 

And if they were really commited to delivering the perk as a benefit to the community, they could have proposed to make it 50% per mirrored class so that more people could gain the 100% buff from the get go or lower the chance. Or possible even make it a 100% and total it out on 400%. As someone else has pointed out, we'd still only be getting around 300 GCXP per daily with the bonus, and roughly 8-10 levels for completing the master mode weekly quest.

 

Or as someone else pointed out, they could have made three more +25% GCXP perks purchaseable. There was a good amount of solutions available to bring it closer to what was described in the roadmap and what people were leveling and playing for since the perk was announced, yet they didn't. And instead of telling us they are looking into some ways to possibly amend it, they brush us off with an excuse that's shady as hell and tell us to "have fun leveling through GC!"

 

Another thing that doesn't add up is their patch integration process. You're telling me that up until yesterday evening, nobody except the person coding the perk knew that it wasn't implemented as specified two weeks ago. So, in the past week, no coder ever called/went to Keith's/Eric's desk and told them: "Hey, a little heads up. We can't put it in as you described, but we have to use mirrored classes." And then Eric couldn't put this into the initial patch notes or simply make a post titled: "Heads up about the new command perk" during Monday afternoon?

 

Normally, you sign off a patch before it goes live, and you don't do that four to five weeks in advance. At any point last week, someone had to check the patch's final release document and compare it to what was promised/intended, and that person should have noticed the change. Who checks what stuff goes into a patch over at Bioware? You want to tell me that only the coder knows what goes into a patch? That he could change how this thing works during the last two weeks and nobody notices the work he did wasn't what was "ordered" up until the patch goes live?

 

I'm not sure where that software engineer learned his trade, but within the high-demand environment of the German company's coding division I worked and trained at for five years, as well as in my vocational school, we had to give weekly reports on our progress and discuss possible alterations of the intended structure and function to the Lead Software Designer who oversaw the project we were working on.

 

Can we definitely prove it was a lie? No, not without Bioware admitting as much, but the evidence reeks to high heavens.

 

As someone else has pointed out, I think Kilran's quote fits here:

 

I wonder, lying or incompetent? It doesn't matter.

 

Either this was intended and this is an excuse post that "isn't meant as an excuse," or they really had no idea and have to re-evaluate their development process. This isn't the first time something like this has happened.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Alssaran

[Floplag]

We do not know if it was withheld, or a simple miscommunication... however, it doesnt really matter.

Assuming the worst of Bio changes nothing, but Bio needs to realize the mistake was made whether intentional or not, and make some adjustment or allowance for the player base.

People invented too much time or are being forced to invest time they do not want to as it stands. That simply isnt right considering the lapse in proper clarification.

[Anzel]

I still don't get it. Even at an additional 100% the CXP grind is boringAF. After doing it twice I pretty much just quit the game. Even if the *BASE* perk was at like 300% I wouldn't be interested.

[Tsillah]

I am very well convinced it was a lie because technical limitations is blatantly wrong.

Ahh but wait, that's something else.

 

Their comment that it's not possible due to technical reasons may well be a lie.

 

They said the same about not being able to change the Hot Prospect server name. I knew right away that wasn't the truth but it probably was a resource issue. Perhaps they ran out of their "technical issues" budget because of the server name change...

[Alssaran]

Ahh but wait, that's something else.

 

I really don't think it is. Whether they lied to us about how the perk should work or gave us a nonsensical lie about why they wouldn't or couldn't do it, I think it doesn't change the underlying trust issue created in this incident. Apparently anything Bioware promises might not be delivered or delivered completely different, and the only thing Bioware will ever do about it is claim "technical difficulties or limitations" and expect us to accept that and continue paying.

 

It is unprofessional, and I really can't remember another developer doing this. The one thing you don't want to do is deceive your community. People can be reasonably understanding when it comes to missing resources, time constraints or anything else, but citing "technical limitations" for everything that doesn't go as planned feels deceptive as hell.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Alssaran

[Rion_Starkiller]

I still don't understand why it's base classes when BWA has been trying to get rid of base classes.

[Screaming_Ziva]

Personally, I'm not mad about the requirement. It's Bioware's game, they can do what they want. I also doubt I will ever have four characters to GC 300, much less the four base classes. I burn out when I grind, and I'm just not interested.

 

However...! I take issue with the one statement quoted above. As a senior software developer by trade, I find it highly unlikely, well nigh impossible, there was any technical limitation forcing such a requirement. There is absolutely no way on earth the game can't distinguish that you have four characters of any class at GC 300 vs. four characters from the four base classes. That's sheer and utter nonsense.

 

I don't know what the real reason is, but it's always frustrating when anyone hides behind "technical limitations". At least be honest.

I have to agree with you on this. It would actually take MORE programming to check the four classes for a level 300 than it would to just check if you have 4 characters at level 300.

[Tsillah]

I really don't think it is.

It is different. The technical limitations thing only came about when they explained what they forgot to tell us. That wasn't part of what they originally said. So they are not only two different things but also two different moments, so it's definitely objectively different.

 

The first can be an omission which may or may not have been a lie.

The second is something that I am definitely not buying at all. Of course they can measure alts getting 300 CXP and basing a calculation on it.

 

And I'm pretty sure they could've counted mirror classes separately as well. They probably just copy-pasted some existing bonus systems that exist in legacy and dount count things double from mirror classes.

[kodrac]

The irony here is that if the exact details were communicated ahead of time or said nothing and just put it in the patch, instead of what was said there would be no problem whatsoever. This is them adding a free bonus to a purchased bonus we already had. The whole problem comes from the fact they communicated one set of requirements for the new bonus and implemented another.

 

Exactly. If they said class in the roadmap everyone would've been happy. You might have had some people say 'damn I have a Jedi and a Warrior', but for the most part, it would've been well received. But because they either didn't pay attention or Keith asked for one thing and got another form the developers, people feel lied to. That's bigger than an 'oops, my bad'. They need to sort themselves out at Austin.

[kodrac]

I still don't get it. Even at an additional 100% the CXP grind is boringAF. After doing it twice I pretty much just quit the game. Even if the *BASE* perk was at like 300% I wouldn't be interested.

 

Well, that's just the sad state of affairs that we're picking at the bones.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Well, that's just the sad state of affairs that we're picking at the bones.

 

This is signature worthy. +100 internet points

[Exly]

People complaining like it's that big a deal that the notes were wrong for several hours.

 

And no the roadmap doesn't count because that's not to be taken as set in stone.

 

Or is it just that I've got one of each class/mirror to 300 and thus not affected?

 

When a roadmap is talking about future projects that are either not in development, or in the early stages of development then it is expected that they are stated in general terms. However, in this case the roadmap was talking about something that was in the late stages of development and was already set in stone, so in this case specific information should have been conveyed.

 

The only question in my mind is did they omit certain information intentionally, or was it an oversight, and I believe that they did it intentionally, and that is why I won't give them a break for what they did. I also think that even if it was an oversight, that their history is laden too with many examples where what they delivered was not what they led us to believe we would get, and even if that is due to their incompetence, I don't like it when they mislead us like that.

[IshtarScorpio]

I'm actually surprised it took the white knights until page 22 to show up in force.

[EightiesMonkey]

The only way this makes sense in my head is if the technically limitations or whatever they called it benefited us in some way, my thought is:

 

They applied it to characters and tested it, following these tests they realized they had no way for the system to recognize when four random characters had been leveled and it rewarded the buff on the fifth so we got 125% bonus CXP and so on. So instead of fixing that issue, they implemented it the way they did, possibly without telling Keith or Eric.

 

It's annoying... Especially considering given the lack of time I actually have to play given my work hours and the fact I like to play alts (I'm sure others share my pain in one of these cases if not both), I have yet to get one character to level 300, I had a glimmer of hope that I could continue to play any alt I wanted and be rewarded with the CXP buffs when I eventually reached level 300.

 

But now if I wanted that I can't play between my Juggernaut and Marauder, it has to be separate classes and it can't even be a mirror, I mean I would understand if it were restricted to one type of warrior but you could level a knight as well.

 

I hope they fix this and make it applicable to any of our characters and not the ancient no longer relevant base classes. Or even leave it as it is but give us the option to buy it once we have one level 300, like its original.

 

It just sucks!