Herbey Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 No, I am sorry, you should NOT be able to kill someone before they get up from your knockdown. Your class is severly OP and needs to be nerfed. /discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nague Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 get more competence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raistlinii Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 get more competence. what he said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reenolols Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) Herbey, the WP from warhammer? Hullo it's reenosorc. Yes, hidden strike does need toned down, and everyone knows it. Edited December 29, 2011 by Reenolols Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jooji Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 No, I am sorry, you should NOT be able to kill someone before they get up from your knockdown. Your class is severly OP and needs to be nerfed. /discuss Get to level 50. Get some gear. You won't get killed out of the stun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filo Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 No, I am sorry, you should NOT be able to kill someone before they get up from your knockdown. Your class is severly OP and needs to be nerfed. /discuss I never killed anyone within 3 seconds. Given, if my opponent is below 20 I get him to ~60% but that's more a problem of the crappy scaling system. However, your point kinda stands. Operatives are too reliant on Hidden Strike. Tone up sustained damage a bit, and reduce Hidden Strike damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nague Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 sorry, to elaborate: normally a operative shouldnt kill you in 1 stun. if he does, you need better gear. If you survive the opener, the operative doesnt have much stuff to finish the job and probably dies trying. Also, operatives have no charge or whatever, any CC destroyes all their plans. And most classes have a 20 sec CD knockback or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cempa Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) The upfront spike damage is much too high. As a 50 Assassin half way completing champion gear the few melee operatives I have come across hit me like a 10 ton truck. Almost each and every time 2/3 of my HP is gone during that 2sec KD. What can I do but stealth....Guess what not only can they also stealth during combat, they have better stealth detection as part of the main DPS tree haha Edited December 29, 2011 by Cempa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshalleck Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 The upfront spike damage is much too high. As a 50 Assassin half way completing champion gear the few melee operatives I have come across hit me like a 10 ton truck. Almost each and every time 2/3 of my HP is gone during that 2sec KD. What can I do but stealth....Guess what not only can they also stealth during combat, they have better stealth detection as part of the main DPS tree haha As my Agent once told someone on Nar Shadda..."I love assassinating assassins...they always seem so surprised." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorruptedFlesh Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 As my Agent once told someone on Nar Shadda..."I love assassinating assassins...they always seem so surprised." Haha very true. Especially when they rely on combat stealth to run. I can still see them and they are much slower. In the previous post it was correctly mentioned that we have good stealth detection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stncold Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) get more competence. It has nothing to do with competence and everything to do with gear/bracketing. The difference between a 50 Op/Scoundrel jumping a person with champion gear and jumping a person with not-champion gear is kind of ridiculous, even if you have champion stuff yourself. Expertise really does matter a lot and it really hurts Operative burst. There is a Sentinel on my server who really lucked out with his bags and is loaded with champion stuff. I don't even bother attacking him if I can help it because I know I can't do jack to him, even though I have 4 champion pieces myself and almost everything else is Centurion. I wouldn't be surprised in 2 or so months when a bunch of people are running around in Battlemaster and a lot in Champion, there will be cries of Conceal/Scrapper being underpowered. They are a class that brings virtually nothing to the table besides their burst, which is hurt badly by pvp gear. IF people think Concealment/Scrapper is ridiculous right now, wait until there are hybrid or Focus/Rage Guards/Juggs running around in full battlemaster in like two or so months. Think fury Warriors in vanilla WoW a class that goes from utter garbage to beyond OP with the right gear. Edited December 29, 2011 by Stncold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwaysthirsty Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 The upfront spike damage is much too high. As a 50 Assassin half way completing champion gear the few melee operatives I have come across hit me like a 10 ton truck. Almost each and every time 2/3 of my HP is gone during that 2sec KD. What can I do but stealth....Guess what not only can they also stealth during combat, they have better stealth detection as part of the main DPS tree haha Well we are the stealth class, we should have advanced stealth abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessirin Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I can do away with a nerf to hidden strike stun, if you make my out-of-stealth combat better. But don't turn me into what blizzard turned rogues into (i.e stealth opener being a joke where you tickle your opponent for 5 seconds and they laugh at you). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultratron Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Ok, so I stopped reading this thread when: A. A bounty hunter is QQing about someone else doing too much damage. B A Shadow is telling another class that they're OP I mean come on guys.... really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realdarkphoenix Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I'm very interested in what pvp will look like in a few months, I'm thinking jugg's, BH and sorc's will run shop followed by Snipers. I'm on the fence about making lvl my op all the way up for pvp warzones, for the above fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevock Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) No, I am sorry, you should NOT be able to kill someone before they get up from your knockdown. Your class is severly OP and needs to be nerfed. /discuss Oh gawd, here we go. Herbey you have absolutely no clue of what you're talking about. Concealment Operatives are actually pretty weak. Their only attack is AB/HS. The rest is just CC. Also you take any skilled PvP player and they will wipe the floor with an Op if they survive the initial opener. I'm level 40, and I got completely destroyed by a level 42 Trooper Vanguard. I couldn't damage him much at all. Edited December 29, 2011 by Trevock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soojagoddess Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Ok, so I stopped reading this thread when: A. A bounty hunter is QQing about someone else doing too much damage. B A Shadow is telling another class that they're OP I mean come on guys.... really? lol yep. QFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaquae Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 well this is something off topic but well cant start a new thread am a lvl 50 PVP operative rolling as a healer - well can keep alot of people up but thing is Operative healer tree cant really Heal like a Mercenery healer or a sorcerer healer end of story,, at the end of Warzone you see a healing mercenery doing 200k more or a sorcerer with 200k more while i healed non stop .. i think the Hots we have got to be more powerful opinions plx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electroflux Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Okay, so if healers are bad and people think concealment is underpowered at level 50 then what reason is there to roll an Operative? If they are lesser then every other class then I damn well mine as well start rerolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaquae Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 well i rolled as a conc too - i have some champ gear already and some centurion stuff not to mention the pvp bags and my very terrible luck, all i get is centurion commendations but whatever .. so anyways stealth then hiddenstrike and back stab .. yea i deal high damage , but operative with cool down is crap - yea cloaking screeen and same combo again still if ur opponent is a lvl 50 geared warrior or a power tech or a jagg your just a joke to them ,but its never like a mercenery damage build or a sorcerer damage build i think operative is just misssing alot and needs tweaking - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramyn Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 well i rolled as a conc too - i have some champ gear already and some centurion stuff not to mention the pvp bags and my very terrible luck, all i get is centurion commendations but whatever .. so anyways stealth then hiddenstrike and back stab .. yea i deal high damage , but operative with cool down is crap - yea cloaking screeen and same combo again still if ur opponent is a lvl 50 geared warrior or a power tech or a jagg your just a joke to them ,but its never like a mercenery damage build or a sorcerer damage build i think operative is just misssing alot and needs tweaking - I'm not 50 yet, but why are you going for tanks in PvP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaquae Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 am not going for tanks am just saying - there is no chance on them even on open pvp with a healing companion your so dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jansports Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I'm not 50 yet, but why are you going for tanks in PvP? Sometimes they have the huttball and must be killed. Preface: My U key is being a bit of a problem, if I miss a U in a word please forgive me. Operatives are going to be a problem(specifically Concealment) You see by design operatives work best when using their combo (Acid Blade-Hidden-Backstab-Shiv-Lacerate) unfortunately because of the way energy works you would Ideally NOT use any further energy consuming skills for a few moments. Meaning your initial damage from the combo is either going to be enough or not enough. If it IS enough we have the problem of people Dying so fast to operatives there is no Gameplay involved in fighting them. If it isn't enough We have a situation where operatives are going to require cooldowns in order to stay on a target or not get mushed into dogfood by classes with more sustained damage. There are actually three reasons I see for this dillema. The first is energy. You WANT to keep it above 60 as much as possible, But maintaining competitive damage in PvP will require more than that, thus you have to choose when and where to "go hard" and spend extra energy to finish a target. Second. There is no passive damage happening. Autoattacks simply don't exist in this game, I've played a rouge in wow and an assassin in aion even an assassin in RO. They all have "brsty" feeling damage abilities used from stealth, but because of the existence of AAs the purpose of the opener wasn't to kill but to provide an advantage. the gap created by that advantage closed while you would AA wait for energy/cooldowns as now your target is using his abilities while you are not (jst like you were using yours and he wasn't from being CCed) Without this 'passive' damage source all of the Ops dps is loaded into yellow numbers, huge critting 50%arp yellow numbers. Third. Of the four base classes IA's don't get a repositioning tool. Charges, pulls, jumps, knockbacks. There is no severe shortage of abilities to remind us that positioning Positioning POSITIONING is important. Besides the full resolve stun off HS with talents it is VERY dangerous at time to attempt to backstab someone. Particularly in hutball smart merc / sorc healers stand back to an edge and you have the choice of not backstabbing or risking getting blown quite a ways away from your objective. I know wow is typically not great to bring up here(maybe its okay here in the Ops in GD its suicide) But this is why rouges eventually had universal facing mutilate. In pvp your opponent can force you to go somewhere without using a skill, just by facing a certain way. This situation basicly gives every competent player a perma taunt against classes that require backstabs. You either take an obvious risk or you simply deal less damage then you're intended. I Don't propose to know of any elegant solutions. It takes things awhile to settle. But I AM confident these are problems that will be noticed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaquae Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 well just finished a warzone as a DPS .. not to mention the deaths i had ,, well i killed alot but still i was looking at the damage done .. was way behind and also there was a Trooper that did almost 500k healing .. so srsly .. not damage class or healing class ... Operative is just a fake class + am lvl 50 with champ gear so dont think am talking crap total ******** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qqemokitty Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 As my Agent once told someone on Nar Shadda..."I love assassinating assassins...they always seem so surprised." That was seriously one of the most awesome lines. xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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