FerkWork Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 (edited) Ok.. main issue the class has is PvP to easy to interrupt, perhaps make stim boost grant x amount of seconds of interrupt immunity maybe haven't really thought it out. In PvE I guess some burst changes but really as long as the trade off is equitable and balanced I guess it's fine. But same time can't have best AoE and great burst there has to be compromise and each healer have unique strengths and weaknesses. Just my 2 cents. Edited August 18, 2017 by FerkWork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainot-keel Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Well, I'm pleasantly surprised. I was totally expecting a flat out nerf to our healing and that it was going to be it regarding balancing this spec:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion_Starkiller Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 (edited) So now you are looking at other things than raw HPS/DPS all of a sudden? Why not when balancing DPS classes and also Sage/Sorcerer healing before? I hope you've finally learned that only bringing DPS/HPS to a level doesn't constitute balance and you have to take all kinds of things into account as well. Back to the drawing board, kids! Sorc heals are fine. L2P and get your own thread. Good decision. However, in my opinion, the Scoundrel can stay, where it is. There just has to be a little nerf to AoE-healing - like increasing the CD of Kolto Waves for example. Kolto Waves costs a lot of energy. An op/scoundrel healer that spams it will quickly run out of energy. Also, it is simply not worth using unless you are healing 4-5+ people. Kolto Cloud, however.... Kolto Cloud is the shizz! Edited August 18, 2017 by Rion_Starkiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimarb Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 nobody consider a operativenerf same as sorc. we only question the logic behind saying know operative wont get nerfed cause the community have concerns about the nerf. the community had also concerns about the sorc nerf for pve. sorc is know useless for example brontes nim when you dont have some jumping easterbunny tanks exploting the smashes. imo all healing classes was ok in pve the way the were. pvp was just an utility issue. but addressing utilites is not on their agenda.... It didn't render the class useless, please if you still think a pure op medicine nerf without giving them a minor boost on burst would be the same as a sage/sorc nerf - get one up to 70 and try healing yourself. The healing on operative is "a little" more complex than the other 2. So if you want to complain how unfair it is, at least know what you're complaining about. I bet you can't even do 4k hps if you tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rylanadionysis Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 FeelsGoodMan confirm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rylanadionysis Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 It didn't render the class useless, please if you still think a pure op medicine nerf without giving them a minor boost on burst would be the same as a sage/sorc nerf - get one up to 70 and try healing yourself. The healing on operative is "a little" more complex than the other 2. So if you want to complain how unfair it is, at least know what you're complaining about. I bet you can't even do 4k hps if you tried. I giggled at "a little" Yes, set them up to fail, watching fotm players reroll to operatives and become utter trashcans overnight was one of the most satisfying experiences I have had in PvP in quite some time. At least the ones that rolled to merc seemed to be able to stay alive, i wonder why that is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyroman Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 nobody consider a operativenerf same as sorc. we only question the logic behind saying know operative wont get nerfed cause the community have concerns about the nerf. the community had also concerns about the sorc nerf for pve. sorc is know useless for example brontes nim when you dont have some jumping easterbunny tanks exploting the smashes. imo all healing classes was ok in pve the way the were. pvp was just an utility issue. but addressing utilites is not on their agenda.... Sorc is perfectly viable for nim brontes, even without tanks jumping any slams. You just need better healers. The concern for operatives now is that they only have sustained healing and very weak burst. If bioware was to just nerf their overall hps and not address their burst healing, then they would be absolute trash. At least bioware was smart enough to realize this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exly Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I'm glad you guys are listening...I just wish you'd have done this with all classes. I may be a little too skeptical, but I am betting that they just ran out of time, and are trying to score some points with us by say what they did in their post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheabr Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Hey folks, As we continued to look at the changes we had planned, supporting data, and player feedback, we have decided that we are not going to be making any changes to Operative and Scoundrel healing in 5.4. Right now, these Disciplines are overperforming in HPS and we do feel that they will need to be nerfed at some point. However, even though their HPS is high, due to the Disciplines lack of burst healing it can be quite challenging to keep players, especially tanks, alive. For that reason we are going to hold off on any broader HPS nerfs until we address the burst healing issues of the Class. We are going to take a look at this for 5.5 and see if that will be the time to make these adjustments. Once we get closer to that update I will let you know what our plans are for Medicine and Sawbones! Thanks everyone. -eric Just a idea make it so you can only have 8 kolto probes active at once. Nerfing the high end of operative healing but keeping the class feeling the same while cutting a large portion of the problem down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Awwww and here I was hopping operatives and scoundrels would have to suffer the fate of unjustified nerfs o well On the bright side shows that the combat team pays attention and relays that information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllisonLightning Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Just a idea make it so you can only have 8 kolto probes active at once. Nerfing the high end of operative healing but keeping the class feeling the same while cutting a large portion of the problem down. You realize they are part of our proc system and we up them at 100% health and are a big part of our overheal numbers. Our overheals aren't making us an OP class- we are the healer class you would least want double teamed in NiM- not sure about HM since that's where I'm doing progression and I run with sorc and merc healers and in PvP we're literally at interrupt city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertimtaf Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Just a idea make it so you can only have 8 kolto probes active at once. Nerfing the high end of operative healing but keeping the class feeling the same while cutting a large portion of the problem down. Well, anyway even a skilled operative will have a difficult time keeping probes on more than 4 person AND healing them normally. Past 4 person you've got two option, either to maintain probes on everyone or to begin putting some serious healing on the table. Less healing on the Recuperative Nanotech and a better mono-heal / Burst heal is more what they need imo. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian_bmx Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) Why the hell you still doing nerfs for PVE. It's stupid. I want to play a master or nim op with my sorcerer. And i cant. Everytime that i play an op with 1 or more sorcerer dps the bosses always enrage. All clases should be balance and make the same dps and the same hps for PVE. Make nerfs and buff only for PVP. Sorry for my english. But i dont understand why you cant make the changes only for pvp Edited August 19, 2017 by christian_bmx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertimtaf Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Why the hell you still doing nerfs for PVE. It's stupid. I want to play a master or nim op with my sorcerer. And i cant. Everytime that i play an op with 1 or more sorcerer dps the bosses always enrage. All clases should be balance and make the same dps and the same hps for PVE. Make nerfs and buff only for PVP. Sorry my english. But i dont understand why you cant make the changes only for pvp Because the game is made in a way that allow you to play both PvE and PvP without changing anything. It is risky, I completely agree, but it could work if only the right changes were made in the right places. Dps nerf weren't needed for mercenary and sniper. Instead they needed a defensive nerf. Sorcerer just got nuked, because sorcerer. (both dps and heal spec) Carnage Marauder got the nerf he deserved, being way over the top but we're still waiting for a specific utility nerf, but this doesn't concern exclusively the Carnage Spec. Medicine Operative needs also some work because the class doesn't work perfectly, and it is still hard to burst someone while keeping the others alive even when you're a skilled player... But the devs choosed to change all of this. If only they adapted the PvE content for these changes then things would have been fine (Except in PvP, we really need these utility nerfed soon, it has been 9 months since they released these broken ability)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooduckAUS Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Everyone is still complaining about burst for scoundrel/ops but if Sage/Sorc is the new yardstick with which we are measuring healing output, are they really behind them now after the nerf? If you have your hots on the tanks at bare minimum (which should be always) burst is solid, when compared to post nerf sages. Weak bubble, slow healing trance etc.... Sage/Sorc has lost a lot of burst. I haven't compared the 2 post nerf because I was assuming a scoundrel/op nerf was coming but I think I would be pretty surprised now if the scoundrel/op was worse off than a sage/Sorc....? I would still love to see some QoL changes, but I just don't think that will ever come as we are just focusing on output at the moment. If that is the case, then a reasonable nerf to our aoe heals and leave our single target alone and we are probably close to a post nerf sage/Sorc, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdjeYo Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) Everyone is still complaining about burst for scoundrel/ops but if Sage/Sorc is the new yardstick with which we are measuring healing output, are they really behind them now after the nerf? If you have your hots on the tanks at bare minimum (which should be always) burst is solid, when compared to post nerf sages. Weak bubble, slow healing trance etc.... Sage/Sorc has lost a lot of burst. I haven't compared the 2 post nerf because I was assuming a scoundrel/op nerf was coming but I think I would be pretty surprised now if the scoundrel/op was worse off than a sage/Sorc....? I would still love to see some QoL changes, but I just don't think that will ever come as we are just focusing on output at the moment. If that is the case, then a reasonable nerf to our aoe heals and leave our single target alone and we are probably close to a post nerf sage/Sorc, imo. Bubble, while having been nerfed, is still a pretty strong ability for a single gcd ability with no activation time, it's definitely better than Surgical Probe when a target needs burst healing. Then there's Roaming Mend, of which each individual tick still beats even an autocrit surgical probe (and you'll get two ticks on the same target if someone needs the burst healing). Sorc burst healing is still way ahead of that of Operatives. And lastly, there's the hots issue, sure you'll pretty much always have probes ready on the tanks, but you don't always need to burst heal a tank now do you? Sometimes a dps needs immediate healing and that's were Operatives fall completely flat where Sorcs have really no added issues. I'm sorry, but I find the notion that Sorc burst is inferior to Operative burst laughable. If you nerf Operative AoE and leave single target alone, you might as well remove Operative healers from the game Edited August 19, 2017 by AdjeYo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) We are going to take a look at this for 5.5 I'm not talking about operatives... but can you do these balance tweaks more often? Please? Edited August 19, 2017 by Glower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooduckAUS Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) I'm sorry, but I find the notion that Sorc burst is inferior to Operative burst laughable. First of all, go back and read my post again, where did I say that Sorc is *inferior* to op in burst...? The point was simply that *our* burst is not as *inferior* as it once was, compared to the nerf'd Sorc. On a tank with 2 probes, in a 4-5 gcd period, I think an op and Sorc are now a lot closer than they once were, but I'm reading people still complaining about our burst. Both capable of 100k in that period (rough napkin math based off crit values). On a non tank, they lose maybe 10-15k in the same period. But if you're dps are dying to spike damage that you can't heal.... Something else is going on in your raid. Generally your aoes and a little bit of focus healing is all that's needed from both healers to get them back in a few gcd's. Kolto waves and salvation both have advantages and disadvantages. Waves quicker, burstier, lower cool down but a cast..... Salvation longer cool down, slower heal, cast but can be placed and walk away and if your team is smart they can put 1 foot in it at the last second and still get the full heal! Waves is stronger but salvation is more versatile. If they nerf it without some QoL changes......But now we get into a different conversation. Hopefully this week I'll run my scoundrel with our sage, now that the nerf is on hold and see how it compares. Edited August 19, 2017 by WooduckAUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storanak Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) Why are we comparing operatives to sorcs? Sorcs even after the nerf are very capable of healin NiM raids. They just got harder to play. Op's are arguable the hardest class to play simply because we are aoe and sustained healing focused. I am very pleased to hear the bioware has decided to balance our class by making our hps go down and increasing our ehps. Yes hopefully our hps will be nerfed but it will actually boost the class as long as bioware correctly changes our burst healing capabilities. In any situation our only real response to spike damage is mass healing not real burst healing. Mercs and sorcs are far better equipped to handle spike damage. Operatives don't really have the needed abilities to handle spike damage. Edited August 19, 2017 by Storanak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupolus Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Thank you Bioware. The Scoundrel Healer was, is and will be by far the least played healer-spec in the game. It's a good thing, they didn't also nerf this spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquor Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Operative has never been about burst healing. It's the HoT class. Over healing Our burst is probes, infusion, recoup. All 3 HoTs running at once making full use of the set bonus. But it's an energy killer. I guess vets can say surgical spam during 2.0 was burst No reason to turn this stealth rolling class into a bursty healer. It does fine as is, in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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