Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[smulx]

Have BW said anything about this yet? I haven't checked for a couple of days now.

[Donger]

Have BW said anything about this yet? I haven't checked for a couple of days now.

 

No. They are to busy adding in the ability to /emote from mounts... Screw crafting! We don't need it anyway. I'd much rather ride around clapping, fist pumping, and tossin out gang signs like a true Sith Lord is known to do

[Alphasgimaone]

I'm glad you're dropping it. It has always been my opinion that the missions were intended to be relatively neutral as far as income. However, that means that they're a completely cost and time free means of leveling slicing.

 

Since the nerf, I have found a ridiculous number of slicing nodes in the world; I assume because there are fewer people to open them. I probably find 10-20 of these per hour while doing missions or what not, giving anywhere from 800-1200 credits a piece. Those are credits that I don't have to rely on the GTN to convert, unlike other gathering professions. I think those are the real point of slicing. It is a gathering skill, afterall, not a mission skill.

 

And that's not even mentioning the mission discoveries.

 

I find that many too. Funny thing though, seven in ten don't work.

[Elyree]

Slicing is still a money maker. Only it's returns are now about 15-16% of what they were pre-nerf.

 

The Sullustan Conspiracy mission does appear to have bad data - over a sample set of nearly 100 runs of it, it's in the red on cash return all the rest are in the black in terms of cash returns (varying from barely more than break even to the best mission returning about 23 credits/minute - prior to the nerf the best missions returned 110-120 credits/minute)

[Kasnova]

Huh? In every other crew skill mission you get some material unless a failure. If you decide to sell the materials at a loss that is your own fault.

 

You still get schematics from slicing missions. If you decide to sell those at a loss, that is your own fault.

[xDoomsDayx]

I find it disturbing that people are threatening to quit playing the game just because 1 profession was "nullified" in their eyes. Are you playing this game just because you want to slice? Are you pissed that you found something that made you booku bucks and now that it doesn't therefore its Bioware's fault for ruining your ability to "have a good time?" Go get another profession. It's not like dropping slicing is going to ruin everything about the game. There is so much more to it than that.

 

Its not that we are threatening to leave over a skill being nerfed. Its the way it was done. First off, no communication at all. This is just the first of many nerfs thats going to be handed down and if we dont take a stand on non communication now, you can absolutely forget it later on with they start nerfing classes themselves.

[WuphonsReach]

The Sullustan Conspiracy mission does appear to have bad data - over a sample set of nearly 100 runs of it, it's in the red on cash return all the rest are in the black in terms of cash returns (varying from barely more than break even to the best mission returning about 23 credits/minute - prior to the nerf the best missions returned 110-120 credits/minute)

 

There's more then a few of the missions with bad data. Low level "moderate" missions which net you more then a higher level "bountiful/rich" mission (which are higher difficulty).

 

L3 Take the Money and Run (Moderate, 425 credits, 7.58 minutes) = ~1450 profit/hr

L3 Droid Madness (Abundant, 460 credits, 9.70 minutes) = ~900/hr

L3 Prince of Fools (Bountiful, 780 credits, 11.00 minutes) = ~950/hr

L3 Arranged Accidents (Rich, 870 credits, 12.20 minutes) = ~2500/hr

L4 Missing Probes (Moderate, 645 credits, 13.40 minutes) = ~1500/hr

L4 Spy Droid (Moderate, 665 credits, 16.45 minutes) = ~750/hr

L4 Be Careful What You Read (Bountiful, 1175 credits, 18.55 minutes) = ~950/hr

L4 Pointing Fingers (Bountiful, 1250 credits, 19.37 minutes) = ~850/hr

 

Someone at Bioware needs to learn math.

[Serazil]

I find it disturbing that people are threatening to quit playing the game just because 1 profession was "nullified" in their eyes. Are you playing this game just because you want to slice? Are you pissed that you found something that made you booku bucks and now that it doesn't therefore its Bioware's fault for ruining your ability to "have a good time?" Go get another profession. It's not like dropping slicing is going to ruin everything about the game. There is so much more to it than that.

 

I think most people quitting are thinking "Fun game but my enjoyable OP skills will be useless next patch because people cried about it.". With the lack of responses, its natural to assume the worse that it got nerfed due to whining. Now, since I play an Operative I'm somewhat worried our burst damage will be adjusted soon. The same with Biochem, I don't have it but sounds like its the only viable end game craft to have for your main.

[ryancwn]

You still get schematics from slicing missions. If you decide to sell those at a loss, that is your own fault.

 

Getting schematic is like getting a purple material.... Try again. Not to mention the schematics are junk... I got more schematic from Treasure Hunting compare to Slicing.

Edited January 4, 2012 by ryancwn

[DarthMalet]

I'm glad you're dropping it. It has always been my opinion that the missions were intended to be relatively neutral as far as income. However, that means that they're a completely cost and time free means of leveling slicing.

 

Since the nerf, I have found a ridiculous number of slicing nodes in the world; I assume because there are fewer people to open them. I probably find 10-20 of these per hour while doing missions or what not, giving anywhere from 800-1200 credits a piece. Those are credits that I don't have to rely on the GTN to convert, unlike other gathering professions. I think those are the real point of slicing. It is a gathering skill, afterall, not a mission skill.

 

And that's not even mentioning the mission discoveries.

 

Might as well just remove lockbox missions then and make them schematic missions? Its pretty pointless having a gathering skill that looses you what its intended yield is suppose to give you.

 

I liked how this skill was suppose to let us casual players not have to grind and worry, now two of my friends have left the game and demanding refunds for the game (one of them even got it, expecting the second one to get it too). Their reasoning is that they was lured into purchasing the game under false pretenses. And sure, its great that they got their money back, but my issue is that I wanted to play with them =p

 

If more of them leave, I will probably leave as well and have the game refunded.

 

EDIT: Possible solution - half the mission cost of all missions for all skills. People with other skills should be happy and slicing stops being a wasteful useless crappy dead pointless worthless pile of dung skill... Yay

Edited January 4, 2012 by DarthMalet

[Zakkana]

I find it disturbing that people are threatening to quit playing the game just because 1 profession was "nullified" in their eyes. Are you playing this game just because you want to slice? Are you pissed that you found something that made you booku bucks and now that it doesn't therefore its Bioware's fault for ruining your ability to "have a good time?" Go get another profession. It's not like dropping slicing is going to ruin everything about the game. There is so much more to it than that.

 

It's the principal of the thing. Slicing produced a moderate amount of credits for people who were not "botting" it and allowed them to have some buying power. This seemed in line with what BioWare had intended seeing as Slicing had existed in the form all through beta with only minor adjustments.

 

Now it goes live and some people decide that slicing makes too much money and are too lazy to roll another character to slice with (which was not that hard really). So they complain in the forums and what does BioWare do? They nerf it into the ground. And still no word from them after over 500 pages on this topic, over half in the "official" topic.

 

Now they ban people for corpse hopping on a higher level planet to a box and camping it. And from reading the patch notes, more slicing boxes have been removed from the game thus destroying the profession further.

 

That is why these people are quitting. Heavy-handedness and lack of communication.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Zakkana

[Skuldar]

That is why these people are quitting. Heavy-handedness and lack of communication.

 

Exactly. Their actions convey an attitude of imperiousness and coldness that implies we are just lucky peons to be able to play their game and they will dole out or withhold information and enjoyment as they the overlords see fit. Almost no sense of dialog with the community and instead a profound feeling that our individual and collective voices count for squat.

 

Despite how fun the game is, that attitude on their part (which could be moderated by something as simple as official clarifying statements) is creating a growing unease.

[Aloharover]

Had had 400 slicing pre nerf. Does it make as much now, no of course not.

but does it still turn a profit, yes.

There are two class 6 missions, Plug and Azure. They both cost less then 1500 credits to run, take less than 30 minutes.

I keep sending Risha on Plug and Bowdar on Azure. over 50 missions each so far. Avg is 500 profit. This does not include the missions/schematics I have also gotten (21 in all). I either give those to alts, or guild members. Havent tried selling any on the GTN yet.

[Zakkana]

Had had 400 slicing pre nerf. Does it make as much now, no of course not.

but does it still turn a profit, yes.

There are two class 6 missions, Plug and Azure. They both cost less then 1500 credits to run, take less than 30 minutes.

I keep sending Risha on Plug and Bowdar on Azure. over 50 missions each so far. Avg is 500 profit. This does not include the missions/schematics I have also gotten (21 in all). I either give those to alts, or guild members. Havent tried selling any on the GTN yet.

 

And your character level is.....

[Belkiratwo]

I think most people quitting are thinking "Fun game but my enjoyable OP skills will be useless next patch because people cried about it.". With the lack of responses, its natural to assume the worse that it got nerfed due to whining. Now, since I play an Operative I'm somewhat worried our burst damage will be adjusted soon. The same with Biochem, I don't have it but sounds like its the only viable end game craft to have for your main.

 

 

or people are thinking, well grinding for 2 hours to pay for repairs and consumables was fun 8 years ago when I was playing EQ but i've since moved on.

[Wisz_Rethon]

I agree with the OP.

 

Not only the skil barely equalizes credit wise but:

 

1) with the mission discoveries and schems that we get (1 in how many?) we barely make up for lost cash.

 

2) we still need to buy material from other crew skill missions in order to craft whatever we want to craft if it's not a green.

 

Therefore now we loose money on the mission, loose money on buying , say , underworld trade metal (which is a 100% drop in UWT missions) and we really not make any with mission discoveries.

[SoylentGreen]

Yeah - I understand the griping - but if you are running cashbox only missions - you'll never lose money.

 

I ran 24 missions yesterday (got me up to 370 in slicing) and tracked the numbers all day. Had 1 failure which lost me like 1400 - but over the 24 missions I made about 5k. So yeah - it's not a good money maker. I got about 5 missions or other perks with the quests that I can sell or give to guildies.

 

BUT - you cannot lose money if you are just running cashbox missions - albeit very slow gain - we are looking at like 700-800 credits or so an hour... it's still not at a loss.

Edited January 4, 2012 by SoylentGreen

[Medianoche]

If you sell the mats you get from the other gathering skills you do actually make more profit that the OLD slicing gave.

The only reason the skill was nerfed was a bunch of QQers. Big bunch.

[Thanatosx]

BUT - you cannot lose money if you are just running cashbox missions - albeit very slow gain - we are looking at like 700-800 credits or so an hour... it's still not at a loss.

 

That's not universally true. I had 4 outright failures and 3 "successes" (missions which reported success, but brought back less than I paid out) and 9 actual successful missions for a total net loss of 2100 credits. I didn't get a single extra I could sell.

 

Now last night, I only ran 7 missions and I had a net profit of 300 credits.

 

I'm still down overall.

[Racheakt]

If you sell the mats you get from the other gathering skills you do actually make more profit that the OLD slicing gave.

The only reason the skill was nerfed was a bunch of QQers. Big bunch.

 

This is the issue i think people have.

 

If slicing is a gathering skill, how much money can be made from a gather mission on the proceeds of the materials? Lets say i send my guys out to gather scavenging metals and I get 10 of the max level metals, can i make a profit selling it on the GTN over the cost of the mission? Basic mats are not that expensive, so i am going to say no.

 

If slicing is a Mission Skill (as most people were using it), what is the profit margin on max level blue/purple mats on the GTN. I know UT metals on my server are going for 5-10k+ each for the high end stuff. So if a crew mission costs 2k, I sell the metal for 5k that is 3k profit.

 

I think slicing returning 3k a mission was a bit much. But i think 100-200 credit now is a bit low for endgame.

 

I think the oddball skill that slicing is is suffering from an identity crisis, is it gathering or mission based?

 

There are world nodes, which indicates it is a gathering skill, but it "works" better for the player as a mission skill.

 

Me? I am keeping it, running missions for little or no gain, hoping for a mission/schematic I can sell or use.

[The_Archon]

I agree with the OP.

 

Not only the skil barely equalizes credit wise

 

Equalizes how? You aren't just mashing the crew missions button still are you? You realize that's why it got nerfed?

 

Go gather lock boxes, there is zero overhead, every cent you make is "equal" to 100% profit.

 

) with the mission discoveries and schems that we get (1 in how many?) we barely make up for lost cash.

 

Welcome to every gathering skill. We're glad to see you! Pull up a chair.

 

2) we still need to buy material from other crew skill missions in order to craft whatever we want to craft if it's not a green.

 

Or you could take the gathering profession for that crafting skill. Just like the other crafters do. Otherwise yeah! You're going to be buying your mats.

 

Therefore now we loose money on the mission, loose money on buying , say , underworld trade metal (which is a 100% drop in UWT missions) and we really not make any with mission discoveries.

 

100% wrong, slicing is still HIGHLY profitable. I opened a lock box this morning and made PURE CASH MONEY without even needing to vendor anything or gamble on the GTN.

 

If you're spamming missions then yep, you're going to see where it was nerfed. Nobody spams missions and makes a profit (slicing still does, btw, just not as big as it used to be). But please stop complaining that you LOSE money by slicing, that's a lie.

[The_Archon]

There are world nodes, which indicates it is a gathering skill, but it "works" better for the player as a mission skill.

 

Do you pass nodes by without opening them?

[Vaestmannaeyjar]

every trade has its troubles.

I'm a biochem (boooo) and to grind a lvl 50 plan I need a level 5 component. which is random from a list.

-Half the missions I get are irrelevant and offer stuff I already have in the dozens but I have to clear them, else I'll soon have 5 leftovers implant missions and nothing else->net loss.

-The actual comp I need makes up maybe 10% of the return i get from the appropriate missions, ie I get something else that I don't use 90% of the time.

-Said resource has no nodes.

 

conclusion: pure and unadulterated credit sink, paying for useless missions to get the good ones from time to time. Not counting I REed 20 or such 50 items and still have no blue plan much less an epic one to show for it apart of the reusable meds.

 

Crafting in this game is a fools trap, I went biochem so I had at least something marginally convenient.

[Racheakt]

Do you pass nodes by without opening them?

 

Never.

 

But I am saying that Slicing always worked better as a mission skill pre-nerf. I am saying that the amount of reward (in credits) for slicing missions should be more or less equal to what other skills sell their mats for a profit. That profit that is expected is dependent on if you view the slicing oddball as a gathering (low/no profit) or a mission (higher profit).

Edited January 4, 2012 by Racheakt

[The_Archon]

Never.

 

But I am saying that Slicing always worked better as a crew skill pre-nerf. I am saying that the amount of reward (in credits) for slicing missions should be more or less equal to what other skills sell their mats for a profit. That profit that is expected is dependent on if you view the slicing oddball as a gathering (low/no profit) or a mission (higher profit).

 

You do realize that missions for other crafters cost money too, and there is no guarantee that mats you collect will sell on the market, or be useful at all in crafting?

 

I'm biochem, one of the supposed new OP skills, and I can't sell mats on the GTN for any more than I could vendor them. That's because the market is flooded, and also because it's very easy to collect mats (IF you don't spam missions for them).

 

Of course you think it worked better pre-nerf. It was fantastically better pre-nerf.