would everything change in favor of the KDF IF only the KDF stayed the previous night at a Holiday Inn Express?

It wasn't insta-money by any means necessary. The dev's and even the posted explanation of the skill says it was designed so you weren't going to have to play the GTN. It was a skill made made for people who didn't want to grind crafting skills or run around the world having to grind up a gathering skill. Your premise is completely off here. I'm sure you know all that though and are just trying to fan flames. Only the people who set up 'farms' had an easy button. Too bad so many other crafting imbalances were worse than this one and they ignored though so the economy could be messed up. Repeating incorrect information doesn't make it right. There's plenty of proof of this already in posts throughout this thread. So, no, not the concept. Which is one additional way to obtain money other than missions. Which only happen sometimes, when you get a crit, which like with OTHER crafting professions is considered a BONUS. Plus, augments don't really sell from most reports. Losing money on a successful mission is awesome? If you feel that way about it I have this bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you really cheap. I'm taking a slight loss mind you, but you seem like a bright, upstanding citizen of the galaxy... Successful missions shouldn't reward you with a loss. That is just silly. Which pretty much all the other professions can do as well from doing their missions as well, this really isn't a point. It's not unique. which was supposed to be a viable choice according to how it was advertised.

yeah, it probably has *nothing* to do with getting Diablo III out, the next Starcraft expansion, work on the mysterious Titan Project and the next WoW (pandaria) expansion. I'm sure it's all about having lost too many members to SWTOR *rme*. really? REALLY? lol.

I've done that over 300 missions and had a net loss to show for my trouble. Plus, there are a ton of spreadsheets out there that show you shouldn't run the highest level missions and should stick to the lower level ones as the actual margin is better. And nodes while questing do not make you 'huge' profit by any means.

Slicing isn't what tanked the market. But you're right about the last bit...everyone is saving their cash for the unreasonably expensive cost of training, speeders, repairs, etc.

it's still overlly nerfed. Stop trolling.

You have proof of that? I thought not. That isn't what happened in 3 years beta apparently. Though they keep nerfing that as well since the same people who abused and exploited the system in the first place conftinue to find ways to do so. Wait till they find another profession to abuse and exploit and we'll get to watch it nerfed into uselessness too. It rarely gives you anything other than credits. And the missions that do, don't come up as often as they did either. It would really be stupid to use credit missions to up your skill when you are most likely to get a loss. It's even more stupid to use augment missions to up your skill because that IS a guaranteed loss every time. I agree with many people on one point...it seems like BW has decided they don't want slicers in game and are quietly nerfing the skill over and over to drive people away and hopefully it's gonna bite them in the rear.

Not true at all. Each gathering profession can send out their companions. The companions return with mats which can be used or sold. Broken down, it's ultimately the same as a companion returning with credits. Yes, which can fluctuate daily and potentially return huge profits. Plus, it's entirely possible you can use those mats, which is still providing a value to you. That's right, because it was put into the game for people who didn't want to or have time to craft and play the global market. Which also ultimately means slicers won't have the same top end potential crafters will. You're also wrong about pulling in a lunchbox full of credits for no loss. There are plenty of chances for loss. Failed missions and missions which return less than you paid to send them out. The difference is, when there is a loss there is -zero- chance of turning it into a profit, when other crafters get mats, they can use them or hold onto them until the market demand gives them a chance to turn a profit. You're right, with the nerf it is definitely broken. FYI, other crafters can 'hit it big' too with mission returns - everyone gets crit chances. Really the difference between slicing and other professions is that slicing provides direct credit return for less overall potential while crafting initially provides less return for overall greater potential returns. Endgame, crafting blows slicing returns away. As it should.

I disagree, besides there are always skills that fill that void and it would really make slicing redundant. BW put it in there for the causal players who didn't want to have to spend hours grinding out a crafting skill and as a way for those people to contribute to the economy. The fact that it returns credits is what makes slicing broken. The fact that any player expects to pay X credits to send their companion on a mission to receive a guaranteed X * Y% return in credits is broken and will cause economic inflation on their server. Does anyone really believe they should be able to sit on their ship and send their companions out to make "free" money without even leaving the ship? Harvesting slicing nodes out in the open world should return credits. Again, I disagree, that really isn't what makes slicing broken. It's people who abused and exploited the system that made slicing broken. Just like the people going out in the world and finding ways to exploit and abuse the lockboxes. Slicers weren't expecting to make guaranteed returns when sending their companions out. Nor is there any kind of proof it would cause economic inflaction -- which is going to happen anyway, since inflation happens in all MMO's. Especially now that the gold farmers have incentive. Every other crafter can sit on their ship and make "free" money too, so why not slicers *shrugs*

You must be having trouble comprehending that the way slicing was designed and supported through beta was that you were supposed to send your companions out to gather as well as gathering yourself. Lazy doesn't even factor in at any point. "Slicing is not a skill required for crafting. Slicing is the art of accessing secure computer systems and lockboxes to acquire valuable items, credits and rare tech schematics. Common slicing targets include electronic safes, data stations, security mainframes and biometric footlockers. These targets contain credits, rare tech schematics used to construct Cybertech gadgets, vehicles and space upgrades, and mission discovery objects that unlock challenging missions that can potentially yield great rewards. Slicers can send their companions on missions to retrieve these valuable items. Other possible mission rewards include augments that can be slotted into exceptionally crafted items." "Recommended Crafting Skills: All (for mission discoveries), Cybertech (for tech schematics)." ― Star Wars: The Old Republic, Slicing codex entry Quote the whole thing, because you are being deceptive or just wrong.

Except THIS gathering skill was primairly used for gathering...now get this...credits, not materials/recipes/missions/etc. So your comment is pretty much invalid. Read what slicing is about on the SWTOR site and in the codex in game.

I think it was over-nerfed too. I'd be okay with getting a net loss for those missions if I regularly got an item to put on the GTN, but that is rare and losses are still consistant. Though, honestly, I don't like having to play the GTN. I'd rather go buy what I need (from vendors or the GTN) and not have to worry about crafting and selling anything. I have done better following those spreadsheets that are posted, but I still make more from doing starship missions, overall. It wasn't the gold farmers...if slicing had been left alone I bet you'd see a lot less of them. But to quote another guy in another thread, since the nerf... I, for one, welcome our Chinese Credit Farming Overlords.

It depends on who you ask actually. Some people claim they still make buckets of money. Some people claim it should only make you lose money. Some people still have mixed results. There's a few spreadsheets in various threads which show you what missions you should run to potentially have the best return. Only run rich/bountiful/abundant missions, don't run the class 6 missions. Pick up every slicing node you can get to with a resonable chance of surviving. overall I finally have a marginal net profit, but one night of bad missions would change that again. Either way though, it doesn't get any easier.

In my experience crafting really rarely becomes useful until end game and then it shines brightly. Now that wasn't the case with SWG if I remember correctly, but didn't the economy eventually blow up in that game? There are some longevity concerns for this game, I agree...but crafting isn't the only source for thsoe ocncerns. It definitely doesn't quite FEEL like any MMO I've played before, but I am having fun and I do enjoy it for the most part. And unlike in WoW I have not ran into NEARLY as many as...er...jerks in this game. Even the forum community seems overall, better quality. Here I post and get (usually) constructive comments back, or supportive or even respectful disagreeance....there, I'd get 'L2P' 'N00b!' and worse lol. If I remember correctly SW:G crafting outshined world drops at almost every level. I don't know about end game or later, but in the beginning I think it did. In WoW there are some crafted items (now anyway) that are considered BiS. I'm not being impatient by any means. I have played MMO's since beta testing UO and I know economies take time to mature and become vibrant. I don't think there is anything wrong with commenting in threads to support or disagree with various statements though. Or even wish a little lol. I just wish BW would communicate with the community better with regards to everyone's crewskill concerns -- and I'm not talking just slicing. Also I don't feel like some of the things people have been asking for are just for mature MMO's. There are plenty of features that really should have been here from the getgo and are still perfectly appropriate for a newly launched MMO. I could totally stand behind this. I'd be first in line again to get my friggen gear updated to my current level instead of having it lag behind.

I'm good with that actually. I never really got a chance to make much money with slicing, I picked it up too late...but while I did have it, I did buy stuff off the AH since I knew I would make enough money by 25 to get my speeder training. Prices have gone through the roof on any actual piece of gear or modification that would be an upgrade for me and I don't have the disposable income since I need to save for training (speeder training, etc), repairs, etc. There is also an issue of very little stuff on our GTN too, overall. I know pretty much everyone says you still make buckets of money with slicing if you follow the spreadsheets (Which I do) but, I still don't. I'm one of those rare people who have consistantly bad luck with random generators. I think I was a bad man in my previous lives lol. I appreciate that...I'm part of a small guild with friends and we just aren't to the point where we can do that for each other yet...we're all very casual and behind the curve of what's going on in the general market. I have mostly organge gear and it usually lags 5 to 10 levels behind where I am. I usually use my comindations for mods and it helps, but I still lag behind.

I totally disagree 100%. That would be a game killer for me and everyone I know who plays.

Even though I don't have a new fangly, fancy-dancy sprad sheet...my roommate and I don't ever run the top end missions anymore, they fail alot (even at 400) and rarely bring back a profit and the end result is always a net loss for both of us. We find the level 3-5 class missions better.

I've noticed a lot of the rich and bountiful missions don't seem to appear as often. Both myself and my roommate observed the same thing when we were comparing notes at the end of the evening.

I am glad for the vendors. The prices for gear are so overinflated I can't actually afford to purchase any upgrades from the GTN. I'd be totally screwed if they removed the gear vendors. And slicer's don't have the income to really spend freely anymore, at least as a majority.

I agree Rich missions generally are the best bang for your buck, but your results from tracking have been no where NEAR what mine have been, though I've only tracked about 300 total so far. Your numbers are much higher. I can't see my numbers coming near yours, which tells me that the RNG can make things very imbalanced/skewed. I'm curious though, how long did it take you to run those 500 missions?

You left off the rest of his quote, which is just as important as the part you are trying to take out of context. And I guess your definition of 'turning a profit' means 'losing money more consistently than gaining it", from a skill that's primary reward is making money.

That's not universally true. I had 4 outright failures and 3 "successes" (missions which reported success, but brought back less than I paid out) and 9 actual successful missions for a total net loss of 2100 credits. I didn't get a single extra I could sell. Now last night, I only ran 7 missions and I had a net profit of 300 credits. I'm still down overall.

Just to interject -- pseudo random number generators that determine mission success, crits and such aren't really random and it is possible for someone to get a seed that provides them with a long string of nothing but good roles and luck. It could be something like that. You can see the effect if you are in a group and one person constantly wins every roll with a high roll. I've seen that some in this game and a lot in others. On the other hand it could be an anomaly or outright deception.

I don't believe you have to be a neutral observer to have a meaningful observation, especially when you are the one experiencing it and watching others experience it directly. Reporting that, doesn't mean one has an agenda or make one biased. That sounds like lawyer speak to me and that is inherently deceptive. lol. If you get 2 different answers, if you queried further, you'd probably find the people didn't really understand questions. I disagree I'm too close to the problem for me to provide information in any kind of non-biased fashion. My opinion is based of my direct experience and the experience of my regular group mate. I'm not trying to push an agenda...I am honestly trying to find out how people have so much money doing the same exact thing I did...when I don't have that much money. The same thing my group mate did. Our experience has obviously been different than yours and I was contributing to the thread specifically to say, "hey, we're not all getting the same results even though we are supposedly playing via the same method." I am sure you will remain skeptical in any regards because you have already made your mind up on what you believe you know are the only facts. *Shrugs*

and from my own experience and observations with the group I run around with, we find that income from normal questing/looting isn't sufficient to affording the various necessities. and I'd disagree...I've yet to actually see very much support with the pricing of things, here, in general chat on various worlds in my server, from people I've talked with. It seems more than just a vocal minority to me anyway. *shrugs*