Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[Racheakt]

You do realize that missions for other crafters cost money too, and there is no guarantee that mats you collect will sell on the market, or be useful at all in crafting?

 

I'm biochem, one of the supposed new OP skills, and I can't sell mats on the GTN for any more than I could vendor them. That's because the market is flooded, and also because it's very easy to collect mats (IF you don't spam missions for them).

 

Of course you think it worked better pre-nerf. It was fantastically better pre-nerf.

 

I have and use slicing still.

 

There are two different categories of "mats" -- those freely grab-able from the world, and those got from missions only. Of course missions cost, at the high end 2500, say I send 2500 on a scavenging mission, get 10 mats I can only sell it for 2600 on the GTN, 100 credit (gamble). But if i gather that same mats for free that is 2600 credit free and clear. As a gathering skill this is how Slicing is working now -- Chests, pure credits, missions loss or 100-200 credit profit.

 

Now lots of people are using and view Slicing as a mission skill like say UT, I spend 2500 get a blue metal i can GTN for 4-5k (on my server) -- that is 1.5-2.5k profit per mission.

 

The argument can be made that Slicing is both (gathering and mission skill); Augments are only got through missions, not through nodes. And Slicing does not directly support any crafting skill. Also look at other gathering skills, their missions do not provide anything they cannot get from nodes -- slicing mission skills do.

 

Let me say I am ok with Slicing where it is now, and I will continue to use it, I am trying to explain where I think the confusion is coming from.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Racheakt

[Hajizan]

or people are thinking, well grinding for 2 hours to pay for repairs and consumables was fun 8 years ago when I was playing EQ but i've since moved on.

^^^^

This

 

I will go back to ffxi, which I have been playing since the na release of the game. My characters have over 200 MILLION gil (currency there). I am not going to play a game where I have to do things I do not consider fun. A failed GTM, high npc prices, repeated in game mail by credit sellers, I can do without.

 

I just want to have fun adventuring, and not having enough credits to repair or buy my skills is not fun anymore.

[gkshow]

As noob as this may sound, but...

 

What exactly happened to Slicing? I just picked it up over Diplomacy and am not quite sure what this "nerf" is. (for some reason patch notes site isn't working for me, so apologies)

 

Also, if it got nerfed this bad, why aren't people just switching to another crew skill that they don't "hate" as much?

[Racheakt]

As noob as this may sound, but...

 

What exactly happened to Slicing? I just picked it up over Diplomacy and am not quite sure what this "nerf" is. (for some reason patch notes site isn't working for me, so apologies)

 

Also, if it got nerfed this bad, why aren't people just switching to another crew skill that they don't "hate" as much?

 

Pre-Nerf, you would get 3-6k profit from a mission, fat cash.

 

Post-Nerf, you get maybe 100-300 credit profit.

 

you still make money, just not much in the endgame scheme of things. Since i am not losing money in slicing I am using it as a free slot machine for sellable mission discoveries and cyber formulas.

[Hajizan]

Pre-Nerf, you would get 0-3k profit from a mission, fat cash.

 

Post-Nerf, you get MAYBE 100-300 credit profit, most of the time it is a loss.

 

you still make money, just not much in the endgame scheme of things. Since i am not losing money in slicing I am using it as a free slot machine for sellable mission discoveries and cyber formulas.

 

Fixed for you

Edited January 4, 2012 by Hajizan

[Racheakt]

Fixed for you

 

I have been slicing since beta, I can get confused as to how much it used to make In beta it was like having a blank check.

[gkshow]

I see...so before the nerf, it was the easiest way to make money as there were no losses...

 

So does that mean now all professions involve the same amount of work you need to put in, to make the same amount of money?

 

I.e, you gotta spend the time to gather all your stuff instead of spamming "send mission"?

 

Sounds like, in terms of gathering skills and sending on missions, slicing is the best of the worst?

[Volki]

A big slap in the face by Bioware. There is a Crew Skills section in the patch notes and they completely ignored slicing.

 

I'll be taking my business elsewhere. SWG had a a vibrant world where you could build houses and factories. The world was changing and alive.

 

SWTOR is a big instance. A dead world you can't change; cold and barren.

 

They'll win game of the year for sure. Oddly, it's also a huge "Dud".

[Hajizan]

I see...so before the nerf, it was the easiest way to make money as there were no losses...

 

So does that mean now all professions involve the same amount of work you need to put in, to make the same amount of money?

 

I.e, you gotta spend the time to gather all your stuff instead of spamming "send mission"?

 

Sounds like, in terms of gathering skills and sending on missions, slicing is the best of the worst?

 

The other crew skill missions were never a loss unless a failure, now with slicing MOST of the time missions are a loss.

[SacredPanda]

The other crew skill missions were never a loss unless a failure, now with slicing MOST of the time missions are a loss.

 

Working as intended, as evidenced by the fact that they didn't see fit to fix it in the patch today. Now they need to nerf the other crew skills to bring them in line with slicing, so the game can be a big grind fest, just like the game they created this to be a clone of, WoW.

[gkshow]

The other crew skill missions were never a loss unless a failure, now with slicing MOST of the time missions are a loss.

 

Well I had diplomacy before slicing, and hardly made any money by sending my companions to missions.

 

I have bioanalysis and scavenging and don't send out my companions on missions, and just farm nodes.

 

How are the other skills not a loss?

[Blackfriar]

This is great post, explaining in more professional way what Im, in my amateur knowledge of economics, expecting to happen.

 

 

I was a dual-major in college -- Accounting and Economics -- and economics/accounting issues like were part-and-parcel of my professional focus until I retired last year.

 

I'll get straight to the point. You and every person whos is whining about slicing is wrong.

 

Slicing has two components the risk-reward system of the lock-box mission which, over time, is profitable. Most mission lose a small amount of money. Some fail. But some give huge rewards that far exceed your direct losses. Over-all, I've been running somewhere between a 10% and 20% profit margin on lockbox missions.

 

Further, there the is the problem of how the skill injects too much money into the game. Everywhere you go there are lockboxes of cash just lying around. This is found money with no significant, material costs involved.

 

Even at low levels, it was not uncommon for one of my slicers to make 10K, or more, in a single three hour gaming session. Just from the lockboxes he found laying around. In fact, last night, I decided to put it to the test. In Nar Shaddaa I made just over 11K in pure profit while running around the factory levels. Some of those lockboxes dropped 600 to 700 credits. None dropped less than 110.

 

So to say 'slicing doesn't make money' is just plain wrong. It flies in the face of the actual numbers and how the entire crafting/mission system is set up. NO OTHER PROFESSION has such a good return on their mission running investment. And no other profession provides the kind of income, post nerf, that slicing provides. Period.

 

In fact, my issue is that Slicing makes TOO MUCH MONEY and should be further nerfed.

 

The proof this course of action is sitting there in my account. I have eight characters -- two slicers and one of each goods-crafting professions.

 

Because of the credit sink in crafting goods, every crafter that's hit level 25 has either barely had enough money to pay the 40K speeder training or couldn't afford it at all. Even those that could afford it couldn't buy their other Level 25 skills.

 

Only one could buy the speeder and speeder training without slicer support. Otherwise one of my slicers has had to send them money to help with the purchases. When I log on today, my #1 slicer is going to have to send 12K to my Guardian and another 4K to my Sentinal. They both craft and neither has the money necessary for a speeder AND the training. One doesn't even have enough for the training.

 

OTOH, the two slicers are, literally, rolling in money. DESPITE feeding my other characters. My level 17 slicing Vanguard has nearly 40K credits. My high level slicer has as much money as my other seven characters combined.

 

And you, and others are arguing there is a problem with slicing? Are you kidding me?

 

So while you're aguing for deflation, the issue is slicers still have too much money as THEY HAVE NO COSTS associated with their node gathering. The mission system isn't a credit sink and all that found money will, eventually, end up in the system.

 

And what does Econ 101 tell us about lots of money in the system? INFLATION which is a condition of a system having too much money chasing too few goods. And while you may not have paid attention to the GTM prices, I have. And they're inflating.

[xDoomsDayx]

I see...so before the nerf, it was the easiest way to make money as there were no losses...

 

So does that mean now all professions involve the same amount of work you need to put in, to make the same amount of money?

 

I.e, you gotta spend the time to gather all your stuff instead of spamming "send mission"?

 

Sounds like, in terms of gathering skills and sending on missions, slicing is the best of the worst?

 

Oh you could have mission failures and get nothing, but once you got to a certain point, the profits would override the mission failures pretty easily. I have given up using it as a mission skill because while SOME people say you still gain money, it is simply not worth the time spent. After a grand total of 2 1/2 hours of mission time combined, my profit ended up being about 1k after failures (even on GRAY missions) and the many returns of less money then what you spent for the mission. 1k for that amount of time is not even worth the effort to hit the buttons because you could still come out as a loss when its all said and done.

 

As for all these riches people keep talking about in terms of lock boxes out in the open world, good luck finding them! people are swarming them like mad and they are very hard to find. I can spend 6-8 hours in a night doing quests and maybe see 5-10 total and on top of that, 25% of those will probably be bugged and not able to be opened. So again, where is all the mad cash that is supposedly being able to be made? I am calling BS on these people, plain and simple.

[Skuldar]

In fact, my issue is that Slicing makes TOO MUCH MONEY and should be further nerfed.

 

The proof this course of action is sitting there in my account. I have eight characters -- two slicers and one of each goods-crafting professions.

 

Because of the credit sink in crafting goods, every crafter that's hit level 25 has either barely had enough money to pay the 40K speeder training or couldn't afford it at all. Even those that could afford it couldn't buy their other Level 25 skills.

 

You have a basic fallacy there in that you are comparing a gathering skill with crafting skills. It is well known that crafting skills are money sinks, whereas any gathering skill is a potential source of income by either gaining credit boxes directly or selling collected materials from all types of nodes.

 

A more valid comparison would be comparing a Slicer character with a Scavenging character or a Bioanalysis character, where the latter two either vendor or GTN their collections. From my reading, the likely result is that the GTN-selling characters would be the wealthiest, followed by the Slicer, then by the vendoring characters.

 

As it stands, your argument for further nerfing of Slicing is really a thinly veiled call for its complete removal, because you are opposed to it on the basis that it creates credits and that is the essence of the skill as implemented.

[xDoomsDayx]

I was a dual-major in college -- Accounting and Economics -- and economics/accounting issues like were part-and-parcel of my professional focus until I retired last year.

 

I'll get straight to the point. You and every person whos is whining about slicing is wrong.

 

Slicing has two components the risk-reward system of the lock-box mission which, over time, is profitable. Most mission lose a small amount of money. Some fail. But some give huge rewards that far exceed your direct losses. Over-all, I've been running somewhere between a 10% and 20% profit margin on lockbox missions.

 

Further, there the is the problem of how the skill injects too much money into the game. Everywhere you go there are lockboxes of cash just lying around. This is found money with no significant, material costs involved.

 

Oh snap! BW best be getting rid of all that money and items found on a creature when we kill it. thats just free money laying around. You are simply trolling this thread and do not belong here.

 

Even at low levels, it was not uncommon for one of my slicers to make 10K, or more, in a single three hour gaming session. Just from the lockboxes he found laying around. In fact, last night, I decided to put it to the test. In Nar Shaddaa I made just over 11K in pure profit while running around the factory levels. Some of those lockboxes dropped 600 to 700 credits. None dropped less than 110.

 

Funny how when I was on nar shadaa I never saw anything above 250 credits. I did not even start seeing 600+ credits till I got to alderaan.

 

So to say 'slicing doesn't make money' is just plain wrong. It flies in the face of the actual numbers and how the entire crafting/mission system is set up. NO OTHER PROFESSION has such a good return on their mission running investment. And no other profession provides the kind of income, post nerf, that slicing provides. Period.

 

In fact, my issue is that Slicing makes TOO MUCH MONEY and should be further nerfed.

 

The proof this course of action is sitting there in my account. I have eight characters -- two slicers and one of each goods-crafting professions.

 

Because of the credit sink in crafting goods, every crafter that's hit level 25 has either barely had enough money to pay the 40K speeder training or couldn't afford it at all. Even those that could afford it couldn't buy their other Level 25 skills.

 

Only one could buy the speeder and speeder training without slicer support. Otherwise one of my slicers has had to send them money to help with the purchases. When I log on today, my #1 slicer is going to have to send 12K to my Guardian and another 4K to my Sentinal. They both craft and neither has the money necessary for a speeder AND the training. One doesn't even have enough for the training.

 

Then you completely ignored the BIOWARE comment that came up when you hit 20 or 21 that you needed to save up for your mount. My friend was crafting, was not a slicer and when he realized that he needed to be saving up, he STOPPED CRAFTING. he was able to afford all his skills AND upgrades to his armor. Then he started crafting again.

 

OTOH, the two slicers are, literally, rolling in money. DESPITE feeding my other characters. My level 17 slicing Vanguard has nearly 40K credits. My high level slicer has as much money as my other seven characters combined.

 

And you, and others are arguing there is a problem with slicing? Are you kidding me?

 

So while you're aguing for deflation, the issue is slicers still have too much money as THEY HAVE NO COSTS associated with their node gathering. The mission system isn't a credit sink and all that found money will, eventually, end up in the system.

 

What drugs are you on son? I think I may want some of that. What costs do you have associated with node gathering in ANY skill? They are just lying on the ground to be harvested. It costs you nothing to grab them either! Oh snap, you mean you can sell those things you get from those FREE nodes and make FREE credits? You need to leave this thread now.

 

And what does Econ 101 tell us about lots of money in the system? INFLATION which is a condition of a system having too much money chasing too few goods. And while you may not have paid attention to the GTM prices, I have. And they're inflating.

 

 

Really? Every indication is prices are dropping like a rock and people are buying even less than before. Go back and read the 2 threads on this subject, there are crafters coming in and saying they can't sell anything even after lowering prices. SLICING is not the problem with the GTN. The problem is crafting is USELESS. You can get better gear from completing quests that will last you longer than crafted items. So again, quit trolling and just go somewhere else.

Edited January 4, 2012 by xDoomsDayx

[L-RANDLE]

No, wrong, slicing is a gathering skill that's supposed to make you money by gathering the gazillions boxes lying around.

 

The 20 bajzillions credits in 1hour while sleeping was a bonus, if that. Now it's not, tough. Still the most profitable gathering skill.

 

How do I know?

 

http://i.imgur.com/7Whc1.jpg

 

Balmorra, 10 min., cost 0, Profit 98xx, 98x credits per minute. The secret? Know your loot-route. The by the time you looted all the boxes lying around the 1st you looted already respwaned. You can go the route all day.

 

Of course this calls for a low population on Balmorra. Maybe I was just lucky, but with 98 players around during my loot-run, I made way more credits than pre-nerf offline.

 

Yes, I'd like to have the pre-nerf slicing back too, because I'm too lazy to do the credit farming actively, but that's precisely why, the chief reason, why all the QQ is around. People don't want to actively gather the credits. Just send 5 companions and make money while you surf the net.

 

Well guess what, tough sh*t.

 

LVL 31 SAGE BIOCHEM AND BIOAN.

 

Like I said before, it forced everyone to grind now. As a crafter I expected to have to grind. Slicers didn't want to grind (per say), but were lead astray (in wasted time) by the nerf.

 

YES it was a commie thing to do, but slicers just need to get out your hammer and sickle and get to work ((courtesy of the dictators (BW) who really control the game))! That is why they probably are not responding.

 

Some people like it, some people don't, but the purpose was probably to slow the influx of credits into the system. BW is slowing the game down because credits were probably at a point that it should not have reached until March/April (assuming fixed money sinks would absorb a standard amount in the same time period). This would lead to losing subscrictions at a fast rate because everyone is "rich" too soon and lose interest before BW makes its profit and was probably planned by BW or EA.

 

And yes I am a cynic, as wealth and power makes people(BW) CRAZY and DISMISSIVE!!! :-P to that!!

 

My crafted items are not worth the time right now (which sucks), but I still grind for materials because I'll just hold on to them for later use, whether that means selling a crafted item or selling materials for credits. Hopefully I am making the right choice, but no harm can come from hoarding, right?

 

[xDoomsDayx]

LVL 31 SAGE BIOCHEM AND BIOAN.

 

Like I said before, it forced everyone to grind now. As a crafter I expected to have to grind. Slicers didn't want to grind (per say), but were lead astray (in wasted time) by the nerf.

 

YES it was a commie thing to do, but slicers just need to get out your hammer and sickle and get to work ((courtesy of the dictators (BW) who really control the game))! That is why they probably are not responding.

 

Some people like it, some people don't, but the purpose was probably to slow the influx of credits into the system. BW is slowing the game down because credits were probably at a point that it should not have reached until March/April (assuming fixed money sinks would absorb a standard amount in the same time period). This would lead to losing subscrictions at a fast rate because everyone is "rich" too soon and lose interest before BW makes its profit and was probably planned by BW or EA.

 

And yes I am a cynic, as wealth and power makes people(BW) CRAZY and DISMISSIVE!!! :-P to that!!

 

My crafted items are not worth the time right now (which sucks), but I still grind for materials because I'll just hold on to them for later use, whether that means selling a crafted item or selling materials for credits. Hopefully I am making the right choice, but no harm can come from hoarding, right?

 

 

Frankly, I think they did it because they didnt expect people to create 7 alts and have them all slicing and making millions upon millions of credits. There was other things they could have done to fix the issue.

[LeperJack]

I was a dual-major in college -- Accounting and Economics -- and economics/accounting issues like were part-and-parcel of my professional focus until I retired last year.

Congratulations.

 

I am Cindi Crawford. Ignore the fact that I misspelled my own name, I said so on the internet and must therefore be legit.

 

Allow me to outline some very basic flaws in your premise:

 

Credits are just currency: Credits are not just currency. Credits also function as man hours, gathering raw materials that cannot be gathered in other ways, as well as supplementing materials that can be gathered. Removing credits from the economy is not just taking away money, it's taking away labor.

 

Printing money is bad: Printing money is bad, when you have an excess of currency. Printing money because other money is being burned at an astronomical rate is good.

 

All inflation is bad: Inflation in established economy with adequate labor, resource and finished good supplies is bad when the inflation is inequitable--i.e. the guy cutting timber cannot afford to buy a table to eat on. this economy is not established, and certainly was not at the time of the nerf. There was a temporary excess of money, but only due to the fact that most of the costs associated with character play are back-loaded. (34,000 for speeders at 25 sounds like a lot at 20. I spent that on skills last night for a level 35.) Aside from inequity internally within the market, inflation is primarily a bad thing when your economy inflates in respect to another, rival market that you interact with. You cannot sell credits for wow gold, therefore this is not an issue.

 

Inflation is possible in an unestablished market. How much is this worth? I dunno... a nickel? I'll give you a dollar for it. ONOES INFLATION. If there is no genuinely set price for goods, you cannot have inflation of a set price. Additionally on day one many people were selling goods well below production costs because they simply did not know better. Bringing prices up from "the manufacturer loses money manufacturing, the gatherer loses money gathering, and low level income far exceeds low level optional expenses" is a good thing.

 

Deflation is good.This material sells for 50 credits! Yay, my 200 credits will buy more! Except that it costs 75 credits to make, and the producer simply stops producing after he goes broke.

 

Slicing gains exceeded costs averaged out over 50 levels. They did not. They certainly do not now.

 

Slicing gains were in any way comparable to average income at level cap. They did not. They certainly do not now.

 

Everyone will be level 25 forever and 200,000 credits will always be enough for every expense. Laughably fatuous.

 

Having a large population with an even-ish income (i.e. a level 25 character who spends all his time slicing instead of levelling will still make much less than a level 50 player, but will still be in the same ballpark) is less desirable than a large population where a small portion of the playerbase has the overwhelmingly largest portion of income, which they can leverage to stay well ahead of the income curve even as other individuals level. I don't even know how to begin to address this.

 

If you are indeed as educated as you say you are, then I welcome you to the world of "game economics" which is far different than real world economics. Your mistakes are relatively common, and more forgivable than your arrogance, but they are mistakes nonetheless.

 

Please re-evaluate your argument and come back. Thank you.

Edited January 4, 2012 by LeperJack

[L-RANDLE]

Frankly, I think they did it because they didnt expect people to create 7 alts and have them all slicing and making millions upon millions of credits. There was other things they could have done to fix the issue.

 

Agreed.

 

The alt thing really made me upset. People should cry foul about sending credits/materials via alts versus complaining that slicing was OP. That is the true "fix" that was needed and would have turned off the "ATM" and made the profession managable. I have to manage my credit input and output and grinding is the only way sometimes. Welcome to the club slicers.

 

I just can't believe people will quit over this. When I arrived at Tattoine, I realized, I had to go to back to TARIS, and NAR, and TYTHOn because I skipped a bunch of missions and did not have the resources (credits/weapons/armor) to even quest, let alone farm. It is a part of the game, as with most RPG's!! I mean on FFXII, it took me like 20 hours to get the best sword in the game and that was not even for gil (credits), sometimes you got to grind **it out baby...

[L-RANDLE]

Congratulations.

 

I am Cindi Crawford. Ignore the fact that I misspelled my own name, I said so on the internet and must therefore be legit.

 

Allow me to outline some very basic flaws in your premise:

 

 

LOL... Leper, you been cracking me up in this thread.. Remember acocuntants/economists base a lot of their theories on imaginary widgets and gidgets too. That doesn't do anything to inspire my confidence either...

 

[Purlana]

Good point, over time inflation is going to occur.

 

The credit boxes you get now are going to a paltry sum once the price of everything else rises.

 

I doubt they are going to keep adjusting the rewards upwards in order to keep things in line...

[Dorkfrey]

Agreed.

 

The alt thing really made me upset. People should cry foul about sending credits/materials via alts versus complaining that slicing was OP. That is the true "fix" that was needed and would have turned off the "ATM" and made the profession managable. I have to manage my credit input and output and grinding is the only way sometimes. Welcome to the club slicers.

 

I just can't believe people will quit over this. When I arrived at Tattoine, I realized, I had to go to back to TARIS, and NAR, and TYTHOn because I skipped a bunch of missions and did not have the resources (credits/weapons/armor) to even quest, let alone farm. It is a part of the game, as with most RPG's!! I mean on FFXII, it took me like 20 hours to get the best sword in the game and that was not even for gil (credits), sometimes you got to grind **it out baby...

 

The *alt* arguement, while just - really affected badly the majority of players who didn't abuse the system. It's a case of punishing the many over the actions of a few.

 

This is never a good game manouver.

 

And well you should believe that people will quit over something such as this. The complete bury heads in sand and hope it goes away attitude from Bioware stinks, and after such a knee jerk reaction - many people would rather play a lower quality more more stable feeling platform - than think, hrm, what's next.. is my class next on the chopping block? And let's not beat around the bush - it's a chopping block. Where stuff gets butchered. Not dissected and trimmed, or tweaked. Hacked, with a large knife.

 

The fact that the market has tanked is grim, but - eventually - it will recover. The fact that a lot of the "fun" of the game has gone out for quite a few - they're just collateral. A noticable bulk of players have left (even my guilds have gone quieter - are those more dedicated to hardcore gaming) - because for many - we didn't want a grindfest to have to enjoy the game. Odds are, it will stabilise eventually, and things will be bought/sold again, but the markets will be a lot more competetive. I'm already seeing many things being sold at base GTN price, and sitting up for the duration, a lot don't get sold.

 

And 20 hours for the best sword in the game in FFXI? Either they made stuff super accessible, or you got supremely lucky. I spent YEARS camping Nid. And I mean *YEARS*. Let alone the Relic weapons. ><

[L-RANDLE]

Good point, over time inflation is going to occur.

 

The credit boxes you get now are going to a paltry sum once the price of everything else rises.

 

I doubt they are going to keep adjusting the rewards upwards in order to keep things in line...

 

 

I also said earlier that eventually (in all RPG's) credits become trivial anyway.

 

Raise your hand if in a RPG you reach 9999999 credits before you were "really done" playing.

 

 

The only real complaint that I can understand is the LVL 50 peeps who now have to become farmers just to maintain, but they can farm a lot faster than I can, so go farm/respec or quit (which BW seems not to care about). Those are the options. Slicers should just keep playing and try to make it through this storm..

[L-RANDLE]

The *alt* arguement, while just - really affected badly the majority of players who didn't abuse the system. It's a case of punishing the many over the actions of a few.

 

This is never a good game manouver.

 

And well you should believe that people will quit over something such as this. The complete bury heads in sand and hope it goes away attitude from Bioware stinks, and after such a knee jerk reaction - many people would rather play a lower quality more more stable feeling platform - than think, hrm, what's next.. is my class next on the chopping block? And let's not beat around the bush - it's a chopping block. Where stuff gets butchered. Not dissected and trimmed, or tweaked. Hacked, with a large knife.

 

The fact that the market has tanked is grim, but - eventually - it will recover. The fact that a lot of the "fun" of the game has gone out for quite a few - they're just collateral. A noticable bulk of players have left (even my guilds have gone quieter - are those more dedicated to hardcore gaming) - because for many - we didn't want a grindfest to have to enjoy the game. Odds are, it will stabilise eventually, and things will be bought/sold again, but the markets will be a lot more competetive. I'm already seeing many things being sold at base GTN price, and sitting up for the duration, a lot don't get sold.

 

And 20 hours for the best sword in the game in FFXI? Either they made stuff super accessible, or you got supremely lucky. I spent YEARS camping Nid. And I mean *YEARS*. Let alone the Relic weapons. ><

 

 

Sorry forgot one "I" ........FFXII (Tournsol)

 

 

EDIT: Yeah I mean the console (PS2) FFXII it is not an MMO, but most of the same "farming" rules apply...

Edited January 4, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[Aloharover]

And your character level is.....

 

38

 

How does char level apply?