KendraP Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Not that it matters since we apparently don'/won't have developers anymore but the original purpose of this thread was to address Guard in DPS builds, not TANK builds. Hmm let's consider the original post. 50% damage reduction, no cool down lasts until death. /stupid overpowered This is why healers are so hard to kill; healers without guard are not that hard to kill. To make it even more stupid DPS have this. That sounds more likely to be a tank guard to me. Surely you don't have an issue killing a dps pt or guardian trying to guard? Any form of pressure will melt them or force them to remove the guard. That said, as an actual tank if dps specs couldn't guard I'd be absolutely tickled as then I wouldn't have to yell at them to remove it before they died any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Hmm let's consider the original post. That sounds more likely to be a tank guard to me. Surely you don't have an issue killing a dps pt or guardian trying to guard? Any form of pressure will melt them or force them to remove the guard. That said, as an actual tank if dps specs couldn't guard I'd be absolutely tickled as then I wouldn't have to yell at them to remove it before they died any more. Well that was not the intent, if you had included any reading from the first page you would know it. I didn't want to end up with a lot of walls of text from weepy trinity tanks. Edited January 27, 2018 by Foambreaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Well that was not the intent, if you had included any reading from the first page you would know it. I didn't want to end up with a lot of walls of text from weepy trinity tanks. With a title like nerf guard and the current meta what did you expect exactly? And by the way, the quote was the very first one ok the first page and I've been posting on this thread since it began back in July. I repeat: I'd be downright thrilled if they took guard away from dps specs. But if a dps is guarding you can probably melt him and his target through the guard with some focus. If he's smart he takes the guard off before he dies. Otherwise congrats you got 2 kills for one. Edited January 27, 2018 by KendraP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 With a title like nerf guard and the current meta what did you expect exactly? .... Reading comprehension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Reading comprehension? I quoted your original post back to you. There was nothing there about your reference being for dps only. And even if that's how you meant it, that is not the direction it has taken since then with all kinds of absolutely ludicrous suggestions of CDs and cutting the damage transfer. In fact the overwhelming majority of my posts were not even directed at you but at people making ridiculous suggestions that would eliminate tanking in PvP. Maybe we should expect actual explanation of your idea rather than merely "nerf this I don't like it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyuuu Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 With a title like nerf guard and the current meta what did you expect exactly? And by the way, the quote was the very first one ok the first page and I've been posting on this thread since it began back in July. I repeat: I'd be downright thrilled if they took guard away from dps specs. But if a dps is guarding you can probably melt him and his target through the guard with some focus. If he's smart he takes the guard off before he dies. Otherwise congrats you got 2 kills for one. Guard should only be tied to TANK SPEC, and it should of been done years ago, guard dont need to be nerf it working as it should, problem is DPS have guard ability to they should not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Guard should only be tied to TANK SPEC, and it should of been done years ago, guard dont need to be nerf it working as it should, problem is DPS have guard ability to they should not I explained this in the quote you have lol. As a tank I'd be thrilled to have guard be a tank only thing again. But really a dps guarding fan be squished just through the guard damage to his guarded target. In fact my main reason for wanting them to remove it from dps is so that I don't have to tell them to remove guard before they die! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) .. and it should of been done years ago.. Actually it originally was because of the way stances worked, when they gave us the premade skill trees they messed it up, along with phase walk and aerial strike to name a few. It is actually just another case of the current team screwing up what was not broke. Edited January 27, 2018 by Foambreaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyuuu Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I explained this in the quote you have lol. As a tank I'd be thrilled to have guard be a tank only thing again. But really a dps guarding fan be squished just through the guard damage to his guarded target. In fact my main reason for wanting them to remove it from dps is so that I don't have to tell them to remove guard before they die! It doesnt mater the reason, it need to be exclusive to tank spec again Actually it originally was because of the way stances worked, when they gave us the premade skill trees they messed it up, along with phase walk and aerial strike to name a few. It is actually just another case of the current team screwing up what was not broke. I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Actually it originally was because of the way stances worked, when they gave us the premade skill trees they messed it up, along with phase walk and aerial strike to name a few. It is actually just another case of the current team screwing up what was not broke. Eh overall I like this change. There are now, for example, far fewer people claiming they're tanks in vigi spec because they threw on soresu form. I do wish they'd take guard away from dps specs, but as I say, it's not hard to squish them when they do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 It doesnt mater the reason, it need to be exclusive to tank spec again Way to ignore my entire point. As I said I want them to make it tank only, but dps with it are easy to squishy through guard damage alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyuuu Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 way to ignore the fact we agree it need to be tank only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 way to ignore the fact we agree it need to be tank only. I acknowledged that by agreeing. But it is incredibly easy to squish a dps trying to act like a tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krosswong Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Not that it matters since we apparently don'/won't have developers anymore but the original purpose of this thread was to address Guard in DPS builds, not TANK builds. Why are we crying about DPS with guard? Is that still a thing? Is it still seriously giving people problems in regs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) Why are we crying about DPS with guard? Is that still a thing? Is it still seriously giving people problems in regs? Trinity PvE tanks found this thread and keep bumping it. But ya, we know you are too good and you can take down a tank/healer combo solo... Edited January 29, 2018 by Foambreaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Trinity PvE tanks found this thread and keep bumping it. But ya, we know you are too good and you can take down a tank/healer combo solo... Actually I've been willing to let this thread die multiple times. You just bumped it again after it was dead for over a week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 Actually I've been willing to let this thread die multiple times. You just bumped it again after it was dead for over a week Wait you are PvE, why are you posting in the PvP forums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) Wait you are PvE, why are you posting in the PvP forums? I do both, including PvP as a despised skank about 6 nights a week. In fact I'd say I PvP far more than any remotely difficult pve Edited January 29, 2018 by KendraP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimeyDoom Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 I’m so glad that the original poster has no say with the devs when it comes to class balance in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafiknoll Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) But ya, we know you are too good and you can take down a tank/healer combo solo... Solo kill a tank/healer combo? No. Solo kill a skank who guards another DPS friend? Countless times. Can YOU solo kill a DPS/healer combo? or a healer/healer combo? or a single good healer? This has nothing to do with guard. DPS don't need to have guard, and it is fair to remove it from them, but it is not OP when they do use it, as any good player would focus them down and kill them. Healers always make killing people troublesome, but guard does not prevent you from stunning the healer, and the fact that the DPS guards the healer does little to none to increase the efficiency in which the healer can save him, so it is harder to kill a mara who has a pocket healer than to kill a veng jugg who guards his pocket healer, an the guard changes nothing about it... Edited January 29, 2018 by Rafiknoll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Solo kill a tank/healer combo? No. Solo kill a skank who guards another DPS friend? Countless times. Can YOU solo kill a DPS/healer combo? or a healer/healer combo? or a single good healer? This has nothing to do with guard. Skanks don't need to have guard, and it is fair to remove it from them, but it is not OP when they do use it, as any good player would focus them down and kill them. Healers always make killing people troublesome, but guard does not prevent you from stunning the healer, and the fact that the DPS guards the healer does little to none to increase the efficiency in which the healer can save him, so it is harder to kill a mara who has a pocket healer than to kill a veng jugg who guards his pocket healer, an the guard changes nothing about it... You and I have been allies on this thread so far. When you ask them to remove it from skanks do you mean dps dumb enough to guard or a tank spec using dps gear? Because you and I, while we agree on the purpose of guards and the stupidity of a vigi guardian trying to guard, disagree on the usefulness of shield and absorb in PvP. It is my personal opinion that all people's issues with skanks (again tanks who use dps gear) could be solved if the usefulness of tank stats was addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafiknoll Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 You and I have been allies on this thread so far. When you ask them to remove it from skanks do you mean dps dumb enough to guard or a tank spec using dps gear? Because you and I, while we agree on the purpose of guards and the stupidity of a vigi guardian trying to guard, disagree on the usefulness of shield and absorb in PvP. I don't ask it removed from skanks specifically. It is impossible because they are tank spec and an ability can't depend on stats for being available or not available. I originally wrote "DPS" but thought to use "skanks" in my example to emphasize that even their guard is overrated and is counterable. I now see that due to me replacing the word "DPS" with "skank" in a few wrong places sent the wrong message of me wanting it removed from skanks. I meant it removed from DPS specs. Edited back to make it clear. It is my personal opinion that all people's issues with skanks (again tanks who use dps gear) could be solved if the usefulness of tank stats was addressed. Agreed, a nice and maybe sufficient start would be to make an ovelapping shield VS crit chance make the shield win rather than the crit. Crit is good anyway, because the more you have, the more you score when attacking DPS and healers, but shield, as it currently works is capped in approx 60%, meaning 65=60 when fighting DPS and making the stacking of it and absorb limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 I don't ask it removed from skanks specifically. It is impossible because they are tank spec and an ability can't depend on stats for being available or not available. I originally wrote "DPS" but thought to use "skanks" in my example to emphasize that even their guard is overrated and is counterable. I now see that due to me replacing the word "DPS" with "skank" in a few wrong places sent the wrong message of me wanting it removed from skanks. I meant it removed from DPS specs. Edited back to make it clear. Agreed, a nice and maybe sufficient start would be to make an ovelapping shield VS crit chance make the shield win rather than the crit. Crit is good anyway, because the more you have, the more you score when attacking DPS and healers, but shield, as it currently works is capped in approx 60%, meaning 65=60 when fighting DPS and making the stacking of it and absorb limited. We still agree then, sorry if I came off as too mean. I was genuinely confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquor Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) Killed plenty tank/healer combos Yeah, they were bad and I was on my dps geared immortal jugg It's quiet comical. Shield is fine. It's a L2P and watch DCD/Buffs to use them to your advantage. Know when to interrupt and CC Might take a minute but they do fail. Usually within seconds of each other. Killed 2 dps and tank swapping guard a few times over the weekend. It's funny as it pulls players to the off node when the real fight is mid. Making it easy for my team to defend/capture mid while I collect rent from nublets at an off node. Edited January 30, 2018 by Liquor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) ... Know when to interrupt ... Oh jeez, that's right, you can interrupt Guard, I'm so bad. Edited February 2, 2018 by Foambreaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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