Discussion Topic: Game Update 5.4 and the Next Roadmap

[VirtualMorrigan]

Oh so keeing your cool and being Level headed makes Things worse? How exactly? Is it that hard to criticize without swearing or using insults or using the same statements that the game is dying? I am all for criticism and I ranted too but to say the customer is always right is wrong, simply wrong because believe it or not, the customer does not always know what's best.

 

And just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean he/she is living in a bubble. Stop assuming so, it makes you look silly.

 

What part of "The customer...from their POV" did you fail to understand? The customer does know what they want and expect, and if that is not delivered, and worse, there are no explanations _from the service provider_ as to why this is not delivered, they will take their business elsewhere. Expecting them to be understanding and getting an interfior product (in this case, the gaming experience) so that unspecified others can have a better one is quite unrealistic. It can work for a while with those who are really fans of the ranchise, but as you can see lately, even the die-hard fans are starting to feel they have enough of this. On the bottom line, all of this is exceedingly bad business practice.

[Toraak]

And I'm from Australia... the game is international... so time doesn't matter

 

It will matter however, since the server is based off of US west coast time, far more players on it will be from or near that time zone. So if your complaining about low population at say 6:30 am pst, then you need to remember west coast players may not be awake yet.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Toraak

[Eshvara]

And I'm from Australia... the game is international... so time doesn't matter

 

Well it does, it's 3:30pm here but 7:30am in Cali if I'm correct, I shouldn't expect a fleet to have two instances in the early morning.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Eshvara

[BlazeSeyton]

Can anyone tell me if the new Umbara stronghold can be unlocked for guilds using the same currency. (Sorry if this has been mentioned before)

[casirabit]

Can anyone tell me if the new Umbara stronghold can be unlocked for guilds using the same currency. (Sorry if this has been mentioned before)

 

Hasn't been said yet.

[DarthSpuds]

Spuds,

 

I didn't respond to your previous post and am reluctant to do so this time, because you can't seem to grasp the CORE CONCEPT.

 

Obviously, we want PvP to be about skill. My point, which is obviously lost on you, is that...

 

PvP will happen much less frequently unless there is a carrot.

 

I agree.

 

Where I disagree is with your contention that Gear Progression leading to a Gear Gap, is a "carrot", I see it as a very, very, very, big Stick. And wholly antithetical to your claim that you want PvP to be about Skill.

 

For me the "carrot" would be genuine Skill based PvP, where the impact of Gear was all but negligible.

 

All The Best

[Icykill_]

I agree.

 

Where I disagree is with your contention that Gear Progression leading to a Gear Gap, is a "carrot", I see it as a very, very, very, big Stick. And wholly antithetical to your claim that you want PvP to be about Skill.

 

For me the "carrot" would be genuine Skill based PvP, where the impact of Gear was all but negligible.

 

All The Best

 

This ^^^

[Lundorff]

Frankly, that is probably a good idea. In the 8 months I've been here, your posts have gotten progressively more snarky. A break is sometimes a good thing. With that said, and forgive me for being blunt, but just because you post more than others doesn't mean you speak for the PvP community. Several of us have articulated why some kind of gear gap, the exact level can be debated of course, is a good idea for PvP. You just philosophically disagree. You do understand that our disagreement is whether or not bolster should be b/t 244 and 248? In the grand scheme of things, we actually pretty much agree. But... (there is always a but)

 

What's insulting, though, is that you think we are not "dedicated" pvp-ers, whatever that means. I have, for better or worse (usually worse) something of an eidetic memory -- and I have yet to hear you articulate a good reason why a slight gear gap isn't a good idea. You ignore the premise and jump to the conclusion.

 

Let me put it crudely: I like the chaos that is WZs, I want them to pop, that means you need people signing up. A previous poster said that a gear gap is bad because the one with the lower gear gap, once they are stomped, will quit. IMy experience suggests otherwise. Why? Because the vast, vast, vast majority of the time -- it is about coordination and teamwork. His / her experience is totally the opposite of mine -- people will still keep playing (which is provable since the WZs pop). And, no, I'm not ripping out my PvP resume, though I am damn close to linking my armory on WoW.

 

If you want 100% gear equality for ranked PvP, then I'm completely on board. Sadly, as a Sith might say, we need fodder to kill in WZs -- and putting a juicy carrot on the end of that stick is a good way of doing it.

 

Dasty

 

Only people who desire an unfair advantage would defend the current system. You lose absolutely nothing by allowing others to have bolster at 250. They could even keep the UCs and allow people to gear up for PVE through PVP if they so desire, and it would work perfectly fine alongside bolster at 250. You could even set bolster at 248, and say that people with full 248 were outside of the bolster system, and thus be able to min-max till they were blue in the face, but still be at the same general level as the bolstered 248.

 

And yes there are many other factors to consider than gear, so why make gear an issue to begin with.

 

Just today I had the notion of trying out a Shield Tech, but the thought of leveling to 70, then to 300 and then to BiS made me cry mental tears. And yes I absolutely want BiS for ranked and even for regular warzones. It was perfectly fine before.

 

So now I play my ops once again, and it gets bleeding boring to never be able to experiment.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Lundorff

[DarthSpuds]

Just today I had the notion of trying out a Shield Tech, but the thought of leveling to 70, then to 300 and then to BiS made me cry mental tears. And yes I absolutely want BiS for ranked and even for regular warzones. It was perfectly fine before.

 

So now I play my ops once again, and it gets bleeding boring to never be able to experiment.

 

That's the fundamental problem with both CXP and RNG Gearing that, so far, Keith has utterly failed to address.

 

We had a half year long event that we were ONLY able to take part in if we created New Alts, and not just one New Alt, one of every Class if you wanted the full rewards.

 

And then along comes CXP and RNG Gearing - making playing Alts not only not efficient in terms of end game viability, but also downright depressing in its inanity - heck it being inane would be a significant improvement.

 

If I were asked to draw up a list of the top ten issues that were causing players to become less happy with this game, and so end up unsubbing and playing Premium (a loss of income for Bioware) or leaving the game altogether (a bigger income loss for Bioware), the top three issues would be 1) CXP Grindathon, 2) CXP Grindathon, 3) CXP Grindathon, and 4, 5 and 6 would all be RNG Gearing.

 

All The Best

[VirtualMorrigan]

That's the fundamental problem with both CXP and RNG Gearing that, so far, Keith has utterly failed to address.

 

We had a half year long event that we were ONLY able to take part in if we created New Alts, and not just one New Alt, one of every Class if you wanted the full rewards.

 

And then along comes CXP and RNG Gearing - making playing Alts not only not efficient in terms of end game viability, but also downright depressing in its inanity - heck it being inane would be a significant improvement.

 

If I were asked to draw up a list of the top ten issues that were causing players to become less happy with this game, and so end up unsubbing and playing Premium (a loss of income for Bioware) or leaving the game altogether (a bigger income loss for Bioware), the top three issues would be 1) CXP Grindathon, 2) CXP Grindathon, 3) CXP Grindathon, and 4, 5 and 6 would all be RNG Gearing.

 

All The Best

 

If you include an entry for sledgehammer class nerfs to that list, I would like to borrow it for my own, please. Though to be fair that one is a more recent one, yours cover the beginning of 5.0 quite accurately.

Edited July 30, 2017 by VirtualMorrigan

[Lundorff]

Wrong. I lose something very, very precious to me: time. Fortunately, the vast majority of MMOs recognize this which is why they incentivize people to play.

 

Time? You mean the time you have already spend to get 248? You can not lose that, and in fact bolster to 250 would save your future precious time should ever roll an alt. But you won't will you? I get you. You have 1 or 2 classes at 248 and you really like the advantage this gear discrepancy provides, so you try by any means to justify it. It's okay friend, the devs clearly have your back on this one.

[DanNV]

Well it does, it's 3:30pm here but 7:30am in Cali if I'm correct, I shouldn't expect a fleet to have two instances in the early morning.

 

I haven't seen 2 instances on fleet on any server I'm on (Harby, BC and SL) at any time of day anytime I've checked in weeks (in some cases months.)

 

That's the fundamental problem with both CXP and RNG Gearing that, so far, Keith has utterly failed to address.

 

We had a half year long event that we were ONLY able to take part in if we created New Alts, and not just one New Alt, one of every Class if you wanted the full rewards.

 

And then along comes CXP and RNG Gearing - making playing Alts not only not efficient in terms of end game viability, but also downright depressing in its inanity - heck it being inane would be a significant improvement.

 

If I were asked to draw up a list of the top ten issues that were causing players to become less happy with this game, and so end up unsubbing and playing Premium (a loss of income for Bioware) or leaving the game altogether (a bigger income loss for Bioware), the top three issues would be 1) CXP Grindathon, 2) CXP Grindathon, 3) CXP Grindathon, and 4, 5 and 6 would all be RNG Gearing.

 

All The Best

 

I'd add in poorly planned, untested nerfs with total BS explanations when the real goal is obviously to force people to grind another class through the !%@!$^%@# CXP system.

 

Only people who desire an unfair advantage would defend the current system. You lose absolutely nothing by allowing others to have bolster at 250. They could even keep the UCs and allow people to gear up for PVE through PVP if they so desire, and it would work perfectly fine alongside bolster at 250. You could even set bolster at 248, and say that people with full 248 were outside of the bolster system, and thus be able to min-max till they were blue in the face, but still be at the same general level as the bolstered 248.

 

The kiddies want their faceroll wins. That's why they argue for having gear progression in PVP. They don't want a skill based competition.

 

Just today I had the notion of trying out a Shield Tech, but the thought of leveling to 70, then to 300 and then to BiS made me cry mental tears. And yes I absolutely want BiS for ranked and even for regular warzones. It was perfectly fine before.

 

So now I play my ops once again, and it gets bleeding boring to never be able to experiment.

 

The game in general has become boring. One size fits all, poorly written, unrepeatable story, attempts to force you to regrind the same poorly done content to get a new character ready for end-game just to go back to doing the exact same old content you were doing months and years ago, etc. They are going to have a hard time correcting all the problems they've multiplied and added to since launch.

[Eshvara]

I haven't seen 2 instances on fleet on any server I'm on (Harby, BC and SL) at any time of day anytime I've checked in weeks (in some cases months.)

 

It happens I'd say almost, if not daily on the red eclipse.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Eshvara

[Jdast]

Time? You mean the time you have already spend to get 248? You can not lose that, and in fact bolster to 250 would save your future precious time should ever roll an alt. But you won't will you? I get you. You have 1 or 2 classes at 248 and you really like the advantage this gear discrepancy provides, so you try by any means to justify it. It's okay friend, the devs clearly have your back on this one.

 

I thought it should be obvious but apparently I have to spell it out. Even Spuds acknowledges that fewer Warzones will pop unless there is a gear gap which you can overcome by progression in the PvP zone itself.

 

That is less time spent PvPing and more time spent dancing in the cantina. If that floats your boat, have at it. Frankly, all you elite PvPers should only be doing ranked anyways.

 

Pose yourself the following Hobbesian choice:

 

Option A: I get to run 5 Warzones tonight with Bolster at 244 (my proposed bolster level) knowing that a small number of players will have 4 item levels higher than me.

 

Option B: I get to run only 3 Warzones tongight with bolster at BIS and have to spend the rest ot the time dancing in the cantina with 1000 naked Lana's (or if you bat for my team, Theron's )

 

I admit, I'm divided on the answer to that question. There are pros and cons to both options. Now if you throw in ranked PvP being set at a bolster rate / choice of gear, though, the choice for Option A becomes much stronger. Everyone wins!

 

Hugs,

 

Dasty

Edited July 30, 2017 by Jdast

[Icykill_]

I thought it should be obvious but apparently I have to spell it out. Even Spuds acknowledges that fewer Warzones will pop unless there is a gear gap which you can overcome by progression in the PvP zone itself.

 

That is less time spent PvPing and more time spent dancing in the cantina. If that floats your boat, have at it. Frankly, all you elite PvPers should only be doing ranked anyways.

 

Pose yourself the following Hobbesian choice:

 

Option A: I get to run 5 Warzones tonight with Bolster at 244 (my proposed bolster level) knowing that a small number of players will have 4 item levels higher than me.

 

Option B: I get to run only 3 Warzones tongight with bolster at BIS and have to spend the rest ot the time dancing in the cantina with 1000 naked Lana's (or if you bat for my team, Theron's )

 

I admit, I'm divided on the answer to that question. There are pros and cons to both options. Now if you throw in ranked PvP being set at a bolster rate / choice of gear, though, the choice for Option A becomes much stronger. Everyone wins!

 

Hugs,

 

Dasty

 

Can you point out where spuds agreed with you? I cant see it in any of his posts.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Icykill_

[micnevv]

I thought it should be obvious but apparently I have to spell it out. Even Spuds acknowledges that fewer Warzones will pop unless there is a gear gap which you can overcome by progression in the PvP zone itself.

 

That is less time spent PvPing and more time spent dancing in the cantina. If that floats your boat, have at it. Frankly, all you elite PvPers should only be doing ranked anyways.

 

Pose yourself the following Hobbesian choice:

 

Option A: I get to run 5 Warzones tonight with Bolster at 244 (my proposed bolster level) knowing that a small number of players will have 4 item levels higher than me.

 

Option B: I get to run only 3 Warzones tongight with bolster at BIS and have to spend the rest ot the time dancing in the cantina with 1000 naked Lana's (or if you bat for my team, Theron's )

 

I admit, I'm divided on the answer to that question. There are pros and cons to both options. Now if you throw in ranked PvP being set at a bolster rate / choice of gear, though, the choice for Option A becomes much stronger. Everyone wins!

 

Hugs,

 

Dasty

 

If you believe that a gear gap is the only thing keeping PVP popping then don't you think there is a larger issue there?

 

Personally I haven't played nearly as many of my characters in KOTET as I did in KOTFE and previous expansions. I have BIS on my Deception Sin and can pretty much one shot a large majority of players with ease and I still hate this current system.

 

I would give anything to go back to 4.0 PVP gearing or 250 bolster.

[Jdast]

If you believe that a gear gap is the only thing keeping PVP popping then don't you think there is a larger issue there?

 

Personally I haven't played nearly as many of my characters in KOTET as I did in KOTFE and previous expansions. I have BIS on my Deception Sin and can pretty much one shot a large majority of players with ease and I still hate this current system.

 

I would give anything to go back to 4.0 PVP gearing or 250 bolster.

 

Not saying it is the only thing at all was just speaking only to this point. I fully acknowledge that other factors are in play; e.g., class balance. That is a whole 'nother can of worms.

 

And Icy, I thought Post #832 Spuds acknowledged that a lot of people PvP for gear but that he personally viewed it as a stick. Does it really matter though? Let's say I was wrong, argue the point. Again, you do realize that we are talking about the difference between a couple of ilvls for unranked only WZs, for only those who happen to have BiS. At this point, though, probably best just to call it quits and stop dominating the thread. We've all made our points. Up to the devs now.

 

P.S. Devs, I think bolster should be 244 or 246. Kthxbai, Dasty

 

P.P.S. I'm not quitting or threatening to quit.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Jdast

[DarthSpuds]

I thought it should be obvious but apparently I have to spell it out. Even Spuds acknowledges that fewer Warzones will pop unless there is a gear gap

 

No, I didn't.

I never said anything of the sort.

 

I contend the exact opposite, with Bolster leading to no Gear Gap MORE WZs will pop, more regularly.

 

All The Best

[Renskedv]

Do we already know which hairstyles we are getting exactly? Or hasn't that been mentioned yet?

[Lundorff]

I thought it should be obvious but apparently I have to spell it out. Even Spuds acknowledges that fewer Warzones will pop unless there is a gear gap which you can overcome by progression in the PvP zone itself.

 

That is less time spent PvPing and more time spent dancing in the cantina. If that floats your boat, have at it. Frankly, all you elite PvPers should only be doing ranked anyways.

 

Pose yourself the following Hobbesian choice:

 

Option A: I get to run 5 Warzones tonight with Bolster at 244 (my proposed bolster level) knowing that a small number of players will have 4 item levels higher than me.

 

Option B: I get to run only 3 Warzones tongight with bolster at BIS and have to spend the rest ot the time dancing in the cantina with 1000 naked Lana's (or if you bat for my team, Theron's )

 

I admit, I'm divided on the answer to that question. There are pros and cons to both options. Now if you throw in ranked PvP being set at a bolster rate / choice of gear, though, the choice for Option A becomes much stronger. Everyone wins!

 

Hugs,

 

Dasty

 

Utter nonsense. PVP was perfectly fine from 3.3 - 4.7.3 when it had a gear progression measured in days or weeks depending on your tempo. This CXP grinda'ton is a completely different animal and your know it darn well. You seek to deny others from getting something for free (bolster 250) that you have worked "hard" to accomplish, and you seek to deny others from being on an even footing to keep your gear advantage.

 

Meh. Whatever. Thankfully this forum has an ignore button

[Jdast]

No, I didn't.

I never said anything of the sort.

 

I contend the exact opposite, with Bolster leading to no Gear Gap MORE WZs will pop, more regularly.

 

All The Best

 

Well string me up! Sorry, I interpreted your first sentence in that post, "I agree", incorrectly. Does it really matter though? It was dumb of me to name you, but the broader point stands -- albeit one you disagree with. You and Icy seem to just want to score cheap debating points. In any case, let's just agree to disagree. Enjoy your next two months of play time.

 

Edit: Lundorf has me on ignore so can't read this, but his / her post completely contradicts his / her point. So he / she supported gear progression in PvP, just disagrees now with the current rate. In actuality, that is something I completely agree with; alas, he/she will never know.

 

All the Best

Edited July 30, 2017 by Jdast

[Costello]

Perhaps the devs should just put bolster to 250 and remove PvP from the gear progression grind; so it doesn't drop anything relating to gear, as it would be hypocritical to say PvP should be outside of the gear grind but I still want my gear grind reward and then see how it does. If 1000's of people resub and PvP matches pop all the time keep it as it is and see that mmorpg players want a pvp system that has nothing to do with gear and you can turn up naked wielding a piece of wood if you so choose. If on the other hand there is no improvement perhaps then it can be accepted that a gear gap isn't the biggest issue with pvp in the Old Republic.

[CountZart]

They had that at the beginning and most of us were tired of being forced to use specific companions just because they were a dps or healer. This gives us a chance to use which companion we want and then adjust what role they have so this for the most part is better than what we had at launch.

 

 

Yes, i Played that too. I loved it.

I loved to use a companion for each purpose. And to gear them up aswell!

 

If these changes occured, it would make a lot of sense why we have so many companions.

 

And it would be a concept of "Mmo", where you have companions, which others dont have, which makes a grp can compliment eachother. Cant you wait for this convo to happen in the future?

 

-"Jikes, we have a boss infront of us that really need Skadges special attack....."

-"well... i just got him to 50..... and i have him, lets do it"

 

;-) THAT IS MMO in a NUTSHELL!

 

 

Thanks again.

[ZionHalcyon]

Great questions. As I outlined in the Roadmap, we are returning to our MMO roots, but as everyone knows, we were focused on story development and left most MMO content alone for the past couple years.

 

To change our direction, we had to retool, reorganize, hire new talent, and get everyone on board with the changed direction. That takes time, so we made a choice and decided to release the Operation Boss encounters one at a time. This gave us more time to design, polish, test, and get insight directly from players, versus making everyone wait all year before we released 5 new bosses.

 

It wasn't an easy decision, as we knew we were going to be criticized while impacting progression efforts. But, honestly, it was the right call. We're discussing future content, how to release it, what's going to be included, and when, but we won't be ready to disclose our next year's plans for a while.

 

I know that's vague, yet it gives you an idea of where we're headed.

 

---Keith

 

So between this post and the other one regarding caring about all players I am thinking that this pretty much tells us where the game is going at least.

 

Reading between the lines it seems like story is really going to be put on the back-burner in favor of quick and easy multiplayer content that is repeatable. As much as it hurts to hear that I also understand it. It also explains why the story quality suffered so bad with regards to iokath..

 

On the flip side it does seem like there will be an easing of restrictions going forward with regards to the premium and free-to-play players if I'm reading between the lines correctly here..

 

I will say that if that does happen that may be the difference between me leaving the game and at least sticking around.

[menofhorror]

What part of "The customer...from their POV" did you fail to understand? The customer does know what they want and expect, and if that is not delivered, and worse, there are no explanations _from the service provider_ as to why this is not delivered, they will take their business elsewhere. Expecting them to be understanding and getting an interfior product (in this case, the gaming experience) so that unspecified others can have a better one is quite unrealistic. It can work for a while with those who are really fans of the ranchise, but as you can see lately, even the die-hard fans are starting to feel they have enough of this. On the bottom line, all of this is exceedingly bad business practice.

 

So? What is your point here other than saying the obvious? If you dislike what is offered then you criticize and when things don't go in a direction you desire you will have to vote with your wallet.

 

I never said I expect people to deal with a product they feel isn't to their liking anymore. That's you assuming.

I also see a lot of "die-hard-fans" who are still there despite ranting continuesly.

 

Bottom line is, it doesn't make it ok to act with arrogance towards others and developers just because you don't have to deal with consequences. I don't literally care what you do in your day. You are the same as anyone else and your opinion isn't worth more than someone else.