Discussion Topic: Game Update 5.4 and the Next Roadmap

[Costello]

A return to 3.0 type content release?? New planets, story, 2 full raids, fp's, and gearing??? Almost all at once?? Even a bit of PVP content just a bit later on??? Tell me which sounds better?? What I just listed, released every year, or the hell we have been in since 4.0??

 

Does anyone really think we will ever see anywhere near that level of content again?

 

Even looking back on 2.0 and 3.0 with rose tinted glasses, I don't recall them getting everything right. I remember the obligatory posts by various members of the dev team promising more communication, I recall a period when after little or no content a promise of content every 6 weeks, resulting in the last update to PvE space combat, re-branding as new content every 2 months much of which was less involved than chapters and alerts; then giving up on the idea. I kind of recall new area's like section x being predominately text box missions that basically said the Dreadmasters minions go kill kill.

 

But everyone has their own views on what makes a good update, if you hate PvP an update that introduces ranked PvP arena's probably not for you. If you like story and want to see where your characters journey takes them decent chapter updates (so not the writing of Kotfe) will seem like a damn good update. What I haven't seen, though I hope to be proven wrong in the next roadmap, is anything to suggest the future is even going to be as good as a chapter+alert a month. It may be a year before we learn Malgus is back so for players interested in Story too slow, the class balances appear to poorly done and then taking too long to correct so not encouraging for PvP players, while ops are rolled out one boss every 4 months is hardly going to keep the hard core raiders engrossed.

 

So with what can only be a reduced budget (that or misappropriation of the budget) it would seem the new direction is to add too little of everything to offer enough content to keep any group in game. With 5.4 offering a new flashpoint that will likely be less than an hour content and 5.5 possibly adding the next operation boss probably scheduled for some time in October. So by the end of the year 16 story chapters may seem like considerable more. Just a shame the team did such a poor job on Kotfe it ruined what could have been a decent model for continued new content and side end game grinding.

[Eshvara]

Does anyone really think we will ever see anywhere near that level of content again?

 

From what I'm seeing on these forums, I'd say so. No idea what encourages that train of thought however.

[DarthSpuds]

when you need the money to make the bills you sometimes do things you might not agree with in order to keep the job.

 

Some people may do that, I don't.

 

I have lines of integrity that will not be crossed, I have always made that clear to every employer; only one has tested me, and lost, I walked and they missed hard deadlines on three critical projects, and were investigated by the HSE.

 

All The Best

[Saurat]

when is Raina Temple returning?

[Glower]

A number of players hated it. A number of other players liked / loved it.

 

Who really liked it? The guild I belong to - 4 years old casual PvP guild - is dead now. Just plain dead. From 10-15 players before release of KOTET and 10-25 before 5.1 to one player...

Edited August 1, 2017 by Glower

[Jedi_riches]

Does anyone really think we will ever see anywhere near that level of content again?

 

Even looking back on 2.0 and 3.0 with rose tinted glasses, I don't recall them getting everything right. I remember the obligatory posts by various members of the dev team promising more communication, I recall a period when after little or no content a promise of content every 6 weeks, resulting in the last update to PvE space combat, re-branding as new content every 2 months much of which was less involved than chapters and alerts; then giving up on the idea. I kind of recall new area's like section x being predominately text box missions that basically said the Dreadmasters minions go kill kill.

 

But everyone has their own views on what makes a good update, if you hate PvP an update that introduces ranked PvP arena's probably not for you. If you like story and want to see where your characters journey takes them decent chapter updates (so not the writing of Kotfe) will seem like a damn good update. What I haven't seen, though I hope to be proven wrong in the next roadmap, is anything to suggest the future is even going to be as good as a chapter+alert a month. It may be a year before we learn Malgus is back so for players interested in Story too slow, the class balances appear to poorly done and then taking too long to correct so not encouraging for PvP players, while ops are rolled out one boss every 4 months is hardly going to keep the hard core raiders engrossed.

 

So with what can only be a reduced budget (that or misappropriation of the budget) it would seem the new direction is to add too little of everything to offer enough content to keep any group in game. With 5.4 offering a new flashpoint that will likely be less than an hour content and 5.5 possibly adding the next operation boss probably scheduled for some time in October. So by the end of the year 16 story chapters may seem like considerable more. Just a shame the team did such a poor job on Kotfe it ruined what could have been a decent model for continued new content and side end game grinding.

 

Everyone sees things through rose tinted glasses, for me Shadow of Revan hit the sweet spot after they introduced the solo flash points for the prelude. Probably the most buggy release they ever did but in terms of content 6 FP's 2 Planets, Dailies, 2 ops (1 linked to story but with a solo alternative) Rep to grind and although a 1 size fits all story a side track that brought you back to your original class story even though it was a brief quest.

 

I hope the 5.4 story flashpoint is along the lines of SOR yet I still wonder if a FP is sufficient to tell a proper story unless part of a chain like SOR.

[Jedi_riches]

when is Raina Temple returning?

 

I want my Kira and Jaesa back first

[DarthDymond]

I'm not actually talking about the story, I'm talking about CXP and gear grind hell.

Gotcha, I had just read a number of other posts lamenting / raging at BW for having the audacity to focus on solo content in an MMO for KotFE/ET and I unfairly lumped your post under that same sentiment. My apologies for that.

 

Galactic Command is actually one of those unicorn-rare instances where I think the response has been so intensely one-sided that I agree it's probably fair to say "most players" disliked it.

I'm yet to meet one person who said they absolutely loved the whole expansion, especially the gearing system as it was and is.

That's a slightly different issue, though. "I disliked GC" and "I disliked KotET (because of GC)" are distinct propositions.

 

There are elements of SoR and KotFE that I disliked (e.g. Discipline Paths replacing Skill Trees) or even outright hatred (e.g. "nostalgic" conversations with no voice-over for the PCs), but those are still my two favorite expansions, because, for me, the good outweighed the bad. You don't have to like every individual element of an expansion to, on balance, like the expansion as a whole.

Edited August 1, 2017 by DarthDymond

[Ottoattack]

Does anyone really think we will ever see anywhere near that level of content again?

 

Even looking back on 2.0 and 3.0 with rose tinted glasses, I don't recall them getting everything right. I remember the obligatory posts by various members of the dev team promising more communication, I recall a period when after little or no content a promise of content every 6 weeks, resulting in the last update to PvE space combat, re-branding as new content every 2 months much of which was less involved than chapters and alerts; then giving up on the idea. I kind of recall new area's like section x being predominately text box missions that basically said the Dreadmasters minions go kill kill.

 

But everyone has their own views on what makes a good update, if you hate PvP an update that introduces ranked PvP arena's probably not for you. If you like story and want to see where your characters journey takes them decent chapter updates (so not the writing of Kotfe) will seem like a damn good update. What I haven't seen, though I hope to be proven wrong in the next roadmap, is anything to suggest the future is even going to be as good as a chapter+alert a month. It may be a year before we learn Malgus is back so for players interested in Story too slow, the class balances appear to poorly done and then taking too long to correct so not encouraging for PvP players, while ops are rolled out one boss every 4 months is hardly going to keep the hard core raiders engrossed.

 

So with what can only be a reduced budget (that or misappropriation of the budget) it would seem the new direction is to add too little of everything to offer enough content to keep any group in game. With 5.4 offering a new flashpoint that will likely be less than an hour content and 5.5 possibly adding the next operation boss probably scheduled for some time in October. So by the end of the year 16 story chapters may seem like considerable more. Just a shame the team did such a poor job on Kotfe it ruined what could have been a decent model for continued new content and side end game grinding.

 

Section X update through Oricon, spanning around a year, was SWTOR golden age. 4 ops, 2 WZs (counting arenas as 1), 2 FPs, 4 daily areas and class balance 3-4 times during that period. Do I expect BW to get back to that level? Unlikely, but we are not even at a tenth of that.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Ottoattack

[Transcendent]

I get the feeling that when ToR is looked back on the time of Kotfe will be seen as a golden age after the initial launch.

 

2.0, some story, some operations, some mini-quests, new areas to explore and datacrons to hunt, some dailies / weeklies / flashpoints, reputation grinds, introduced strongholds / gsf, added pvp maps (sure not the ones players really wanted, but still added something), CM wasn't an utter disaster like it is now.

 

So no, 4.0 doesn't have anything near the content provided during the 2.0 cycle. Too many changes were also made to the core game experience for 4.0, essentially removing a lot of content that had been introduced (or made it completely pointless to even do). 4.0 was the path to unmitigated disaster, 5.0 pretty much has hit that nail down harder.

 

Where the game goes from here? Who knows.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Transcendent

[leonlotus]

A returning player Feedback

 

I subscribed this game for years, and stayed completely out for quite a long time. I would like to share my opinion about my experience.

 

 

Impressions on KOTET:

The arc is returning to the old paradigma that sustains all the Star Wars Universe, the Light Side VS the Dark Side. The Eternal Empire power was reduced to something that it's umbeatable status and high cohesion depended on the potency of some individuals. Much more like a faction that would fit in the Republic and Empire war. After that alignment, I paid much more attention to Valkorion, and what involved him.. really a great character! Perfect connections with the original stories. The scenes in wich some companions may die, were relly good also. I felt like i was playing SWTOR again, and not some generic story with laser weapons and kinetic powers. I have to say seeing Elara and Malavai, and even choose between them was great. So congratz!

 

 

Impressions on 5.3 class corrections:

It was a great improvement for PvP. I am alredy seeing a more diverse use of the classes, and some guilds trying to test some other compositions. The result of a serious work to bring a sitation out of the previous static. But it needs continuation, like said in the RoadMap 2017.

 

 

Expectations:

As i said, imo, the last chapter in Iokath was a golden key for PvE content imo, and 5.3 was a right step to reach class balance, which is the most fundamental pillar of PvP. I expect to see more returning players with next patches bringing the game to MMO style again. For content, I wish that the story becomes in the most part at least, class oriented again. And for PvP, i wish to see incentives for open world. That 2 factors were the responsible for a "immsersive" game once, and can be again.

[LanternsUnite]

You nailed it.

 

Even though it may not be apparent, I send so many of your suggestions to the Dev Team. We discuss them, debate them, then if we like something, we determine the effort, and decide when to do it. Keep in mind, we have to work to a schedule to ensure we deliver all agreed upon parts at the right time.

 

What may seem a simple change could very well add weeks of not just Development time, but Engineering, QA, reschedule of VO recordings, localization, and more. Although I'm notorious about asking for changes mid-stream, we desperately try not to, as it can impact everyone and cause schedule delays.

 

--Keith-

ps...sorry for all the posts seemingly all at once. We've been heads down this past week on various planning activities (including the Roadmap update) and realized we hadn't kept you apprised.

Just remembered to ask this... Any more details on weapons becoming apart of outfit designer? Possibly an ETA or some more info when 5.4 "leaks" start heading out?

[santafaye]

Hey everyone,

 

We are quite a few weeks away from publishing the next 90 day update for our SWTOR Roadmap. We solidified our content plan and release schedule, so I’ll include all those details in the update. But, as you know, we’re really trying to provide you with more insight than ever before, and I’d like to know what other information you’d want to see in the Roadmap. Obviously, I can’t promise to include everything, but will do my best to address a wide variety of your requests.

 

Many of you read the SWTOR roadmap (http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20170531), and realize I had left you with an elusive “and more to come…” in the Game Update 5.4 section. I thought this would be a good time to let you know what will be released on August 22nd with the next game update. Here’s a few highlights of what you can expect:

 

• Crisis on Umbara – Our story will continue in a new Flashpoint coming on the planet of Umbara. This Flashpoint will launch with all 3 difficulties, Story, Veteran and Master. For Umbara’s Master Mode we are trying something new, and depending on how well it goes, we may do something similar for all Master Mode Flashpoints. Specifically, a player will need to have an average gear rating of 242 to use Group Finder. We won’t prevent pre-made groups from going in directly, but this will prevent under-geared players from slowing down your group. We’re adding a new average rating identifier on your character window which will be based on the items you have ‘equipped’.
  
• Umbara Stronghold – This is the most unique stronghold yet, as you will be able to decorate your own moving train. You’ll need to complete the flashpoint a few times to gain access to the stronghold. Look for more details about the Stronghold in an upcoming post.
  
• Companion Customization – Senya Tirall can now have her weapons and armor customized. Also, Lana, Koth, and Senya’s hairstyles are available for purchase to customize your character.
  
• Quality of Life – Companions can now be summoned while moving.
  
• A new feature on the in-game Preference screen has been added for higher graphic settings to improve the realism of contrast and shadows.
  
• Class balance – The following Disciplines are receiving changes (details will follow in the next few weeks):
  
  • Lethality / Ruffian
    
  • Concealment / Scrapper
    
  • Medicine / Sawbones
    
  • Fury / Concentration
    
  • Carnage / Combat
    

  [*]Season 8 will be coming to an end! We will post the full breakdown of rewards with screenshots in the coming weeks but in the meantime… the top rewards include a full weapon set and a new Ember Makrin Mount.

  [*]We are making changes to daily and weekly mission rewards for PvP with the intent of substantially improving Unassembled Component gain for players who complete both Ranked and Unranked missions.

 

Back to the Roadmap update for a moment as I’d like to provide some guidelines about the feedback. Be concise and specific. Think how it will affect other players, fairness, progression, impact, to help us truly understand and weigh your thoughts against the entire plan/direction.

 

Keep in mind, our goal for this year was to put us on a track of providing new and challenging multi-player content, while addressing all the gameplay systems in SWTOR. It does mean spreading content out over the year, but I still believe having access to content sooner is more desirable than having to wait a year to get it all at once.

 

Chat with you all soon.

 

Keith

 

hey keith i had a suggestion is it at all possible to get a cross fashion companion customize vendor on the fleets seeing how alot of our companions are now cross fashion .rock on my friends

[mydocs]

hey keith i had a suggestion is it at all possible to get a cross fashion companion customize vendor on the fleets seeing how alot of our companions are now cross fashion .rock on my friends

 

THIS! So much this. My Reps also want that "Vette Customization 2", please...

[Lahandra]

Does anyone really think we will ever see anywhere near that level of content again?

 

Even looking back on 2.0 and 3.0 with rose tinted glasses, I don't recall them getting everything right. I remember the obligatory posts by various members of the dev team promising more communication, I recall a period when after little or no content a promise of content every 6 weeks, resulting in the last update to PvE space combat, re-branding as new content every 2 months much of which was less involved than chapters and alerts; then giving up on the idea. I kind of recall new area's like section x being predominately text box missions that basically said the Dreadmasters minions go kill kill.

 

Of course not.... Just simply addressing what WOULD have been better.... Were there problems before 4.0? Sure, but it certainly wasn't as bad as the continual mass exodus we have seen since 4.0 dropped. Hardly anything for PVP, what will likely end up being a 3 year wait before finally getting a single full new operation, things such as the DvL event which just regurgitated already overplayed content, and a sub-par and buggy (considered such by even the story based players) story line that bored most players to tears, and came at a rate that made the majority of the subs wonder why they bothered paying for 20-40 mins of content a month. And some people still wonder why most of us feel like we are just rearranging the deck chairs at this point??

Edited August 1, 2017 by Lahandra

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Because there are way more people like you who down vote anything that attacks their view of the game on reddit then people who back mine.

 

Soo you are an incredibly minority and listening to you is a waste of time because it won't benefit the overall population of the game?

 

Thanks for finally admitting that.

[Kurj]

Of course not.... Just simply addressing what WOULD have been better.... Were there problems before 4.0? Sure, but it certainly wasn't as bad as the continual mass exodus we have seen since 4.0 dropped. Hardly anything for PVP, what will likely end up being a 3 year wait before finally getting a single full new operation, things such as the DvL event which just regurgitated already overplayed content, and a sub-par and buggy (considered such by even the story based players) story line that bored most players to tears, and came at a rate that made the majority of the subs wonder why they bothered paying for 20-40 mins of content a month. And some people still wonder why most of us feel like we are just rearranging the deck chairs at this point??

 

All we need is balanced content delivered in a consistent manner. If Keith & Co. keep on the course they have laid out lately, I think the game will be fine by the end of this year, which I think is a big make-or-break-it point for the game with Ep. 8 coming out.

[Icykill_]

Was there a forum server roll back? Because it seems one of my posts I made yesterday has disappeared?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Was there a forum server roll back? Because it seems one of my posts I made yesterday has disappeared?

 

moderation possibly, sometimes posts get deleted if they quote/reply to a post that was moderated.

[dontbeswg]

at least a keith's answer about it would be nice.

 

it's an important part of a MMO : to renew interest for old players AND give interest to new players to begin a class in same time as other players.

 

Keith is really trying, I think most people appreciate that.

 

Keith,

 

Can you please give a statement about how the game developers plan to address operation in the roadmap? To clarify, do you plan to release operations in installments, and if you do what is the time-table going to be? Do you plan on releasing less than two operations per expansion? Etc...

 

 

Since speaking out about the course of the game is apparently illegal these days, I personally would like to know the plan of the game in statement so I can decide whether to leave it behind or stick with it.

[dontbeswg]

 

Even looking back on 2.0 and 3.0 with rose tinted glasses, I don't recall them getting everything right. I remember the obligatory posts by various members of the dev team promising more communication, I recall a period when after little or no content a promise of content every 6 weeks, resulting in the last update to PvE space combat, re-branding as new content every 2 months much of which was less involved than chapters and alerts; then giving up on the idea. I kind of recall new area's like section x being predominately text box missions that basically said the Dreadmasters minions go kill kill. .

 

Ever game receives forum criticism, however this is the undisputed truth: The game was never more healthy than it was in 2.0. All aspects of the game were populated with players and all contents of the game were approachable on virtually all servers.

 

The reason for this is simple, this was the only time in the game when 3 competent operations were released. If you argue that 1.0 had that then you still support that 1.0 also had a healthy player base on all servers. 3.0 discontinued that trend, and when it was completed stopped in 4.0 the game started to rot.

 

I'm tired of arguing this because those that disagree are not willing to see the truth or they just weren't there, so feel free to disagree wrongly.

[dontbeswg]

and no... we will not ever see a point in this game where content is released at the volume released in 2.0

[Costello]

Of course not.... Just simply addressing what WOULD have been better.... Were there problems before 4.0? Sure, but it certainly wasn't as bad as the continual mass exodus we have seen since 4.0 dropped. Hardly anything for PVP, what will likely end up being a 3 year wait before finally getting a single full new operation, things such as the DvL event which just regurgitated already overplayed content, and a sub-par and buggy (considered such by even the story based players) story line that bored most players to tears, and came at a rate that made the majority of the subs wonder why they bothered paying for 20-40 mins of content a month. And some people still wonder why most of us feel like we are just rearranging the deck chairs at this point??

 

I fully agree what was provided was not great and have the same feeling that they are now just rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.

 

I would like it if they had balanced content, hell my dream or wall of crazy would be that they get an entirely new engine that improves graphics and game play. I was playing the ESO Morrowind Expansion and making my way through a canon and thought how amazing the trooper story would have been if on Ord Mantel when you make your way out of the transport right at the beginning you had been making your way through such a canyon and having separatist guerrilla fighters attacking you from the cliffs above. How much more that would have sold me on the desperate trench warfare going on as opposed to lone NPCs standing in a fairly open field waiting on me to kill 10 of them.

 

Now I don't know what the budget for new content is, I don't know how it is spent I don't know if the cost of one writer is worth 2 graphic designers. I don't know if one blur trailer is worth 2 op bosses. Now I would suspect the cheapest thing is story, the animation the VO and the like probably far more expensive. But given you can write a story with a pencil and piece of paper if you are on a shoe string budget and need to make your MMO stand out from the others on offer, witty dialogue, complex character development and intriguing story requires one genius with a pencil and piece of paper. One the premise you are going to have some story and some dialogue anyway making it excellent is the best way to stand out from the crowd and must be cheaper than beautiful exploitable worlds or massive operations and open flight pve space battles.

 

So on a very limited budget (if it isn't very limited that would be more tragic, to do so little with so much) Ben opted to focus on Story, that thing which TOR was to bring to MMO's back at launch and did exceedingly well with the class stories. As to try and provide flash points, operations, pvp, gsf, story and repeatable solo content on the available budget would have resulted in very little of each. As a total example, 3 story chapters which leave the story fans bored for most of the year, 3 operation bosses which leave the raid community wondering what the point is, 1 flashpoint that leaves the casual group player hardly excited once it is beaten in the first month etc etc.

 

Now did this approach work, sadly not. I would say though not because of concept, focus on what you offer and others don't i.e. the Star Wars story. It failed in implementation because the story was dull focusing on an all powerful god protagonist and his wah wah wah children, filled with plot holes and recon history and mostly ignoring anything that had happened before; all for fear that new players (not brought in by the DvL event, as they so would know the previous story) wouldn't be able to jump in buy a level 60 token and understand what was going on. While further alienating existing players by stripping them of class and faction identity and most of their companions to boot. While the story being one size fits all often with identical dialogue (though not always) and no real choice made replaying on even other faction characters pointless if the story was the lure. While Alliance Alerts what should have been a great idea proved to be too little in every respect, to little grinding (a necessity in MMO play) with too little reward to make it overly appealing. They were simply too impersonal generic companion recruitment missions after spending 3 chapters often putting your 5 man crew together in the original game.

 

So while in no way a success, the concept was a sound one. What makes this game stand out, lets focus on that with out limited budget. As trying to offer raids and getting a few bosses out all year will hardly stand out when WoW is getting a few raids out a year outside of expansions. While an open world to explore will hardly stand out when people looking to explore can enjoy the visually spectacular ESO or trying to compete against all those PvP titles previously listed let alone MMO's offering open world objective based PvP. I hope when the next road map comes out there is plenty to keep everyone happy, I hope Keith has scored a significant increase in budget (or that the seemingly low resources available on the game where because of misappropriation and there is the budget) to put out WoW levels of content. But I suspect such hope will seem stupid and instead in the next 3 months we will see one new flashpoint hinting at Malgus having returned but waiting on over a year before it will be confirmed and 5.5 bringing changes to some numbers and the next Op boss.

[Icykill_]

Keith, while your fixing things in the game... Maybe you could do something about the cheats that are in pvp.

 

You know, the ones who cap from stealth... the ones who can't be stunned, cc'd or Mez'd... the ones with permanent speed boosts regardless of class or group buffs... the ones who float and can't be hit... the ones who can walk through walls.. the glitch ones... etc

You know, the same types of cheats that have always been in the game but have never been addressed.

 

Maybe some real deterrents and an easier way to report them as we as provide proof. There is no point in reporting them if you give them a slap on the wrist especially after using the convoluted and time consuming method you have to report them.

 

I gave up reporting them 12 months ago because of all of that... it gets tiring when you guys don't do anything... these cheats know they can get away with it and you make it extremely easy and inviting when you have such weak deterrent policies.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Icykill_

[Icykill_]

moderation possibly, sometimes posts get deleted if they quote/reply to a post that was moderated.

 

Nah, shouldn't have been and if it was it looks a bit suspicious because it was a follow up post to my one asking that person who was actually paying them to play the game so they could post on the forums and if they actually did it for work?

 

Considering their original post to say they got paid and my reply is still there, my second should still be there too. It just seems weird or suspicious that it would disappear if there wasn't a server roll back.