GSF Discussion: Friction Points

[StrixHiraeth]

Bioware staff: stop giving people false hope by making threads in GSF forums. As if you have plans for it. Yeah, right.

 

Players: don't be fooled, they're just stringing you along.

[Mocaccino]

Is ship balance preventing you from playing?

 

Yes. Gunship are so OP and they need a BIG NERF. Because of these ships GsF is not a starfigther game but a simple shooting game.

 

Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in?

 

Yes. New maps, new objectives game should be fine. A real matchmaking and most important less gunship and bomber.

 

Matchmaking issues?

 

For now, this is the worst matchmaking ever. Try to play with an unupgraded ship versus a full ship, you will have no chance. Also beginner team can be versus a experimented team, and GsF need pratice to learn to fly. So many people start a game, lost 50 to 0, after be farmed to their respawn point; and you asking why they dont come back

 

Actually all games have this composition :

 

Deathmatch

 

5-7 Gunships

1-2 Bombers

0-2 Scout or Fighter

 

Domination

 

3-7 Gunships

3-7 Bombers

0-2 Scout or Fighter

 

And when you are in scout/fighter you are offended by gunship player "Because you are responsable for the defeat"

 

So you need to start to limited the number of gunship and bomber in game. When you enter a GsF match you must be able to pick only ONE ship ! Then limited composition with maximun 2 gunships and 2 bombers allowed, rest will be scouts or/and fighters.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Mocaccino

[Bartholmaos]

I’m a relatively new GSF player only returning to this mode after the introduction of the GC so many of these questions relate to my recent experience with the mode.

 

Is the learning curve too steep to get into?

No. The challenge I found was not the capabilities of my ship but understanding the differences and, more importantly, the tactics for the game modes for each ship type. It really is ‘on the fly’ training as it currently stands. I was fumbling with my F1-F3 keys while trying to change from primary to secondary weapons and either flying into objects full speed in my scout, sitting motionless and getting scragged in my gunship or slowly wandering aimlessly in my bomber. So I went online and found excellent tutorials, guides and videos and began to learn what I could / should do even with a T1 scout in the various game environments. With that information and practice I began to enjoy my time. I will also say that, with very few exceptions, the GSF community is open and helpful to pilots who are just beginning or unsure of what to do.

 

Is ship balance preventing you from playing?

No. I found the ship type that suited my playstyle and stuck with it. Since there are variety in each type I found I could play this type and contribute regardless of the game mode.

 

Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in?

No. I enjoy it for what it is. Would new maps and game modes be appreciated - you bet. Would story-line PVE missions be cool? Absolutely. There are some great ideas out there on how to expand GSF.

 

Matchmaking issues?

No. I’ve watched other vehicle based co-op games that I play have this same discussion and no one has yet been able to create a matchmaking system that is universally deemed ‘fair’. Look, sometimes you kick, sometimes you get kicked. Neither is fun but it's finite and these blow-outs tend to become inflated in one’s memory because of the frustration affiliated with those 15 minutes. GSF isn’t the game. If you're beginning to tilt you can go back to doing a variety of other things. The population is too small to try to build skill or experience based algorithms that wouldn’t address the issue anyway.

 

The fact that GSF is character based and not Legacy?

Prior to the changes in cost and requisition I may have considered this but now it takes very little time to get an alt competitive.

[caederon]

I don't play GSF because I do not understand it.

...

With GSF, you have to maneuver your ship. I don't know what the objectives are, I don't even know how to fly the darn ship; it's not equipped. I don't know what my attacks are; I'm sure there is a convoluted tutorial but not interested in reading it.

There's no doubt better in-game tutorials are needed. To compensate, I have produced a whole bunch of videos over at the GSF School YouTube channel. Here are some specific ones I feel would help you a lot:

 

(2:44) - a guide to basic ship maneuvering.

(4:16) - an overview of how weapons work in GSF: how to fire and how to know if you've hit.

(5:23) - How to die less frequently and what to do when you're in trouble.

 

If you're up for it, there is also a longer-form video that follows Stock Ship (a pilot who flies only unupgraded ships) through a full match, explaining what is happening and what game mechanics are being used the whole time:

 

(17:55) - a detailed tutorial of what you can do in a brand new unupgraded ship.

 

The enemy players are too tiny. I don't really know if I am successfully attacking them or not;

If you are landing hits, you will see gold or red (critical hit) numbers representing the damage you have done pop off of the enemy ship. If you have flytext disabled for some reason, I guess you may not see this. It's pretty useful in GSF, though, so consider turning it back on.

 

There is an important game mechanic called Evasion, which is an abstract rating that influences whether shots hit or miss. You may have properly aimed shots that miss due to Evasion, which you will notice particularly when fighting against scouts. It is kind of like a character stat for your ships. The higher the Evasion rating is, the more shots will simply miss even if they are properly aimed.

 

I hope they address the need for better in-game tutorials, but there are a bunch of written guides as well (several by me). I think the videos do a better job of illustrating the points and showing things in action, so I recommend you check those out.

 

- Despon

[Exocor]

Problems:

Strikes are pretty useless.

Nothing changed in GSF for some years.

Gearing the ships in GSF needed very long before the patch and still needs some time atm.

New players need very long to learn

 

 

Solutions

(1&2) Give Strikes a stealth mode and nerf them a bit in their overall performance (stealth mode available as "shieldability", no shields, if equipped)

(3) Make GSF (and unassembled components, requisition etc.) legacy wide

(4) Design some introduction levels, that are more challenging

Edited July 8, 2017 by Exocor

[rylanadionysis]

I think my biggest beef with GSF right now, and having been playing it semi regularly for the last year or so, is that its still plainly obvious I am never going to catch up to more veteran pilots

 

I still miss 70% of my shots, no matter what I do, I cannot keep up with them, and i am insta obliterated the moment they notice me. They stop on a dime, spin completely around in a flash, and just rek me every time.

 

The whole skimming the surface of asteroids, stopping on a dime inside a satellite, being basically unhittable yet being fully able to hit me.... it baffles me to no end.

 

Its as if they play with a different ruleset, from my perspective keeping reticle on target is a task in and of itself, its almost like THEY have some kind of tab target shoot me out of the side of their ship, whereas i have to pinpoint.

 

I get it, thats learn to play most likely... but ive been at this for a year and still cant hit the broadside of a barn, and even when i do, most of my shots dont land.

 

In addition, my ships are getting mostly maxed out now, especially scout and strike fighter, and ive had some good advice in game from some veteran pilots on what options to take, crew, etc... but at the end of the day, i might hit a guy 10+ times, and he never goes down, but he hits me ONCE, maybe twice, and im blown out of the sky.

 

I dont get it, at all.

 

So the biggest friction point for me, is this apparent learning curve. This isnt a first day complaint now, Ive been playing GSF semi-regularly (a few matches a day) for the better part of a year, and if that isnt enough time to "git gud" i probably never will, and im a competitve pvp player with that drive.

 

I cant imagine how a casual would feel.

 

 

All i know is at the end of the match, I usually have 14-20k damage, 1 kill, 4 assists, 20% accuracy, and 10 deaths Thats typical.

Edited July 8, 2017 by rylanadionysis

[caederon]

I think my biggest beef with GSF right now, and having been playing it semi regularly for the last year or so, is that its still plainly obvious I am never going to catch up to more veteran pilots

 

I still miss 70% of my shots, no matter what I do, I cannot keep up with them, and i am insta obliterated the moment they notice me. They stop on a dime, spin completely around in a flash, and just rek me every time.

...

All i know is at the end of the match, I usually have 14-20k damage, 1 kill, 4 assists, 20% accuracy, and 10 deaths Thats typical.

You are in a great position to improve your skills and performance, it seems like you have the desire to do so and the willingness to practice. You need better instruction, and there are loads of people who would be glad to give it!

 

Check out the videos at GSF School. I actually have been thinking about making a new one covering Shooting, accurate targeting, when to fire, when ~not~ to fire, etc.

 

Feel free to PM me on here, or contact me in-game. I'm on Harb a lot, on a wide variety of alts (Imp: Despon, Harmless Puppies ... Pub: Beris, Nothing Visible are the main ones you'd see me on lately). Might be easier to coordinate through a PM here.

 

Knowledge and a willingness to put in it practice are the keys to self-improvement. I absolutely believe that all the points you bring up can be addressed and you can improve a lot.

 

So much of this 'friction' comes from inadequate tutorial resources. So, so much.

 

- Despon

[Nyla]

Actually all games have this composition :

 

Deathmatch

 

5-7 Gunships

1-2 Bombers

0-2 Scout or Fighter

 

Domination

 

3-7 Gunships

3-7 Bombers

0-2 Scout or Fighter

 

And when you are in scout/fighter you are offended by gunship player "Because you are responsable for the defeat"

 

So you need to start to limited the number of gunship and bomber in game. When you enter a GsF match you must be able to pick only ONE ship ! Then limited composition with maximun 2 gunships and 2 bombers allowed, rest will be scouts or/and fighters.

 

Don't know which server you play on, but it's different on mine. There's plenty of excellent pilotes using scouts. Fighters not many (I do have a T1 strike fighter amongst my 5 ships and play it every day) but the problem is they need to be buffed.

As for your suggestions about picking only one ship per match and limiting the numbers of bombers/gunships, I'm against both.

Switching ships is a great tactical tool and enable people to switch like for an example from a bomber defending C to a scout rushing to A trying to take it before too many ennemies switch from C to A.

As for the limitations, the problem is people refusing (or not knowing how) to change ships/tactics to counter the ennemy.

 

The main reason many newbies have trouble with GSF is knowledge.

[AlrikFassbauer]

The main reason many newbies have trouble with GSF is knowledge.

 

Right now, it will be quite difficult for Newbies to catch up the with the collected knowledge of veterans. Simply because all veterans had so much more time to/for practise.

 

And I don't think it is a good thing that Newbies have to rely on outside sources like video tutorials) to compensante what Bioware didn't want to or couldn't do, like an tutorial with NPCs fighting back.

Edited July 8, 2017 by AlrikFassbauer

[catsi]

Is the learning curve too steep to get into?

 

At this time the Learning curve is very steep for newer pilots, The Tutorial is quite frankly inadequate at best at worst its raises expectations without imparting any skill. oh looks heres a bucket and pail and sand, you built a sand castle? YAY youre ready to be an architect.

 

The tutorial needs a massive overhaul to better explain each ship, and how to both pilot them and counter them.

Explain the games fundamentals, and teach people how the basics of each match style works.

And provide a sand box to practice with different builds against at least drone level ai pilots in order to improve against a thinking target.

 

Is ship balance preventing you from playing?

 

Not me but I hear many of the same complaints for the most part, and as mentioned earlier some ship classes have taken to over balancing the ship rocking the boat so to speak. I have even hear experienced pilots basically give up flying for an evening because of over stacking of one kind of ship or another. If a vet can have these issue a new pilot would face worse with this issue.

 

Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in?

 

Still flying some 5k matches later but Id love to see some new maps, new game modes, capture the flag, destroy the cap ship, take out/defend the supply convoy new content in any game of this nature is always needed.

 

Matchmaking issues?

 

The matchmaker is odd at times as others have noted and I echo their sentiments. Sometimes the matchmaker skips solo pilots several times in a row sometimes it skips grouped pilots several times in a row.

 

Some times it fills one Entire team in a wargame while the other team languishes with three players until it find another four or so.

 

Ive personally seen this last one as me and one other person were looking across the field at a full 8 man team, until 10 seconds before the match began when suddenly 5 more people joined.

 

The fact that GSF is character based and not Legacy?

 

I believe this can cause some frustration in constantly having to rebuild fighters from the ground up. while there might be some fun in that rebuilding especially with the recent improvements in pricing for gsf there I believe should be legacy hangars with the option to either use mastered ships or choose to build from scratch.

 

overall GSF is fun but has risks for newer pilot that need some mitigation to insure a healthy population.

[Triquetrum]

What I want to see is new map types like defend the convoy, destroy the base

 

Also wanted to see something similar to seasons in PvP but more like Bounty Board were players on the board get rewards the longer they stay on the board all based on their stats or base ont he concept of how ground PvP works for seasons.

 

Also would be good to see stats at the end of a game for healers in ships that's missing.

 

add bigger ships types not necessarily the cap ships but bigger ships would be cool to fly

[Triquetrum]

What would be cool to get is launch from your guild ship when the game pops, be able to fly in closed training sessions with others to help us learn and get better

 

merge servers for more pops, or cross-server pops would help us not have to wait light years hours

Edited July 8, 2017 by Triquetrum

[DarthVandalism]

You are in a great position to improve your skills and performance, it seems like you have the desire to do so and the willingness to practice. You need better instruction, and there are loads of people who would be glad to give it!

 

Check out the videos at GSF School. I actually have been thinking about making a new one covering Shooting, accurate targeting, when to fire, when ~not~ to fire, etc.

 

Feel free to PM me on here, or contact me in-game. I'm on Harb a lot, on a wide variety of alts (Imp: Despon, Harmless Puppies ... Pub: Beris, Nothing Visible are the main ones you'd see me on lately). Might be easier to coordinate through a PM here.

 

Knowledge and a willingness to put in it practice are the keys to self-improvement. I absolutely believe that all the points you bring up can be addressed and you can improve a lot.

 

So much of this 'friction' comes from inadequate tutorial resources. So, so much.

 

- Despon

 

100% true. I have managed to improve a lot just from playing and practicing. And when I get to a point where it seems I'm not getting better I start hitting the community. The community based resources and tutorials give me some ideas and tactics to try and practice too. I'm not one of the best pilots on Ebon Hawk. But I am consistently on the top third of the board now. I didn't start out there.

[josephxp]

Is ship balance preventing you from playing?

 

Yes. Gunship are so OP and they need a BIG NERF. Because of these ships GsF is not a starfigther game but a simple shooting game.

 

Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in?

 

Yes. New maps, new objectives game should be fine. A real matchmaking and most important less gunship and bomber.

 

Matchmaking issues?

 

For now, this is the worst matchmaking ever. Try to play with an unupgraded ship versus a full ship, you will have no chance. Also beginner team can be versus a experimented team, and GsF need pratice to learn to fly. So many people start a game, lost 50 to 0, after be farmed to their respawn point; and you asking why they dont come back

 

Actually all games have this composition :

 

Deathmatch

 

5-7 Gunships

1-2 Bombers

0-2 Scout or Fighter

 

Domination

 

3-7 Gunships

3-7 Bombers

0-2 Scout or Fighter

 

And when you are in scout/fighter you are offended by gunship player "Because you are responsable for the defeat"

 

So you need to start to limited the number of gunship and bomber in game. When you enter a GsF match you must be able to pick only ONE ship ! Then limited composition with maximun 2 gunships and 2 bombers allowed, rest will be scouts or/and fighters.

 

For starters it depends on your server, some games i will be on and everyone is scouts and strike fighters with 1 or 2 bombers set up as heals.

 

You cannot limit the amount of ships players can play, that will cause people to not play GSF. Some people only play certain classes of ships they won't play anything else because they feel most comfortable with that ship. Also from an achievement point of view too that would be detrimental because there are achievements where people need 50 wins on each ship type and 250 games on each ship. Some people like me are almost done with the 250's but some may try to start them as more people come in. Denying them to play a gunship or bomber will make them not want to play the game. It would be like denying a tank or a healer spec'ed player in pvp from playing as a healer or tank because you want more team balance. Also everyone has 1 of each ship now.

 

Also changing ships mid game is a huge strategy, I usually start a domination game with a strike fighter or bomber, or a Team Deathmatch with a scout or bomber, i will use a razzorwire/rampart to plop a hyperspace beacon in a nice flanking position. But mid match the tide may change where i may swap my ships to a scout to harass a gunship picking of my teammates, or if the other team is full gunships ill grab mine and blast them apart.

 

All ships have simple counters, people need to learn these counters. For gunships for example:

 

DON'T run head on into the railgun, i can't tell you how many times people will run into my railgun head on, thats suicide, you go at an arcing angle to make them take an accuracy penalty until your in range.

 

Run and Hide, if your low on engines hide behind a structure regen engines then continue to charge at an arcing angle dont stand out in the middle of space as easy pickings.

 

A mobile gunship wont do much damage; keep harassing them on a scout, unless its a condor/jorgan gunships hate being in 4000m combat.

 

Bombers:

Dont run behind the bombers, they will plop their mines behind you.

 

Go attack the bombers from the sides they turn and move slowly hit and run tactics or a ship with heavy cannons will tear them appart.

 

Destroy Railgun and repair sentry/probes asap this helps keep damage away and from them repairing, also if your out of range and want to help a team make take out a few mines.

 

Simple tips like these will help greatly when combating gunships and bombers, most people who go after me when i am in one of these dont follow these basic tips and i slaughter them, while those who go after me in these ways leave me defenseless and overwhelmed.

[TheBeerDude]

I would like to see a repair droid indicator (like the enemy ship indicator) added to the blaster arc on the display.

[Triquetrum]

oh something I do find annoying are players that are like skipping all over the place like frogs, it gets real hard to fight against that, not sure if it's a bug or just me that need to figure out how to kill them

 

OOH yes I forgot to mention, it would be really nice to be able to see the distance to our wing mans , it gets real hard to figure out who's where in a Space and that makes the game harder to play.

[DarthVandalism]

The discussion above is awesome and full of good ideas for the most part but,

 

If I was to give you my largest friction point, it'd be this... I have to sit in a queue for however long and hope for a pop, then I am stuck in one of two scenarios within three maps, all of which are pvp and require me to be active in what the rest of the randomly made or premade team is doing.

 

Sometimes, I just want to fly, explore my ship how it operates, maybe shoot a few targets or get some flying missions I can do on my own or with a friend, or group of friends. And go do it without having to wait for a queue

 

So, in short, I'd like what should have been a part of GSF from the get go - Some open map and instanced PvE components. That would probably eliminate all the friction I have with GSF, and would entice new players to come play. You would also also give new players a chance to at least practice a little without breaking things for the veteran aces.

Edited July 8, 2017 by DarthVandalism

[Triquetrum]

Yes PvE was something I had in mind not sure how it could be done, one of my guild mate suggested this:

 

new Op...Raid group starts off by picking their favorite GSF starfighter and has to win a capture to flag style game before they move on to the next boss, next boss is basically a guild ship and the team has to use the starfighters to take out the batteries so they can land safely in the docking bay. Boss 3 would start the ground assault and would be a commander or something and the final boss would be the ships Captain.

 

So yeah you idea about PvE GSF would be really cool

[cheese_cake]

Low frequency of queue pops and one sided matches greatly discourage new players.

It's very easy to get discouraged from playing GSF. I play on the Imperial side of Shadowlands and we rarely get any queue pops outside of peak hour. And when it does pop matches are so one sided it's hard for new players to learn anything beyond that they're terrible at it. It is just not rewarding considering how much time one has to invest waiting for the queue to pop. There's not a lot of opportunities to gain flying experience and when there is new pilots get destroyed too quickly to learn how they could improve.

 

Having a smaller map mode that requires less players would help increase the number of matches and give players more opportunities to fly.

 

There needs to be a better way to orient oneself with respect to allies

The mode is hugely reliant on teamwork, but it does a terrible job at indicating where your allies are. Often when being chased by enemies is easy to get disoriented. The mini map is 2D does not help orient the 3D space. It would be great if allies where indicated on the HUD in a similar way to enemies whereby you can tell their position relative to yours and their distance.

 

The efforts of support players are not reflected on the scoreboard

I play bombers often because they really help in a match, but other players prefer to play other ships. However my efforts are often not reflected on the scoreboard. For new players it is hard to tell how you're contributing as a bomber when its strengths are always marginalised and invisible. Very often too while staying in the back lines and protecting my repair probe and making sure there's a safe area my allies can find refuge to repair and recharge the game flashes a warning that I'm not contributing even though my probe is repairing multiple allies. This needs to change.

 

What could be done is to include healing done and number of times people used hyperspace beacons on the scoreboard & have medals awarded for them.

[DakhathKilrathi]

The efforts of support players are not reflected on the scoreboard

I play bombers often because they really help in a match, but other players prefer to play other ships. However my efforts are often not reflected on the scoreboard. For new players it is hard to tell how you're contributing as a bomber when its strengths are always marginalised and invisible. Very often too while staying in the back lines and protecting my repair probe and making sure there's a safe area my allies can find refuge to repair and recharge the game flashes a warning that I'm not contributing even though my probe is repairing multiple allies. This needs to change.

 

What could be done is to include healing done and number of times people used hyperspace beacons on the scoreboard & have medals awarded for them.

 

If, while you're playing bomber, you get a message that you are not contributing, this means that you are not set up close enough to the action in most cases. Move your mines and drones forward so they are closer to the action. Your job is to provide a place for repairs, yes, but it is also to provide somewhere for your teammates to run to when being chased. If anyone triggers your mines or your drone, it counts as contribution.

 

Move up.

[niemi]

So I have debated posting this thread due to what feels to be lack of accommodation between what devs have historically shown to be responsive to and due to the fact that due to past history, while I have never personally voiced my current beliefs on the game's current state of affairs, efforts witnessed amongst other players (many of which seemed very credible) always seem to fall on deaf ears. That being said I decided to break tradition of normal behavior and attempt to voice elements of my personal standpoint on the current affairs of GSF due to what seems to be a renewed compliance of attempting to connect with the player-base.

 

This has gone noticed, and before I begin I just want to preface this layout by saying some of these criticism may sound blunt but not for the intention of trying to be harsh, but solely for the intent of trying to map out key concepts that hopefully could be significant takeaways for how GSF can operate mechanically, conceptually, and how immersed many of the players feel about this.

 

To begin with, while I know many people may feel opposed to the background I come from in any sort of simulated flight background, myself and many other people I know were practitioners of Star Wars Galaxies JTL. While I know many people may feel opposition to the system of flight that was implemented within this game, in conjunction with the fact that the system of flight in this game is a system that is completely different than what was implemented within SWG, there are still core concepts of flying that are significantly worth mentioning that could prove beneficial depending how, and whether aspects can be applied to our current system of Galactic Starfighter.

 

The first being is that part of the immersion of what Galactic Starfighter is feels very supplementary and very disconnected in terms of what space not only means to the star wars franchise and also how it can draw a demographic to people of want the immersion of a flight based combat system. As it is right now, the specific feel that GSF gives to many players feels very nihilistic. It's current state in the game is a side mini-game, almost a placeholder. Something that feels there without really having any significant meaning whatsoever. Nobody feels that it possesses any impact into what this game actually caters to, your character, and never gives a representation of feeling of a pilot or someone who is thrust into the space of what star wars is. Here is a good example I believe. In a game such as this we have what was decided to be our personal transport ship (i.e. our class ship where our companions used to inhabit post kotfe). However this is all that it was, It doesn't feel subjective or personal, everyone who is the same class possesses the same one and its sole use "was" to be used to enter an instance to travel to a planet where we level up for four levels. There was really not much more function besides this. In a game such as star wars galaxies, to travel you needed a ship, a subjective personal ship of quite a few different varieties that could be named, personalized cosmetically, outfitted personally (more vastly than our current system) but also PLAYED A PURPOSE amongst actually being necessary to travel to different space ports and systems ALONG WITH having a function besides a queued warzone pvp match. My point overall being is that while space PVE would be a wonderful thing to possess I'm sure to many people, I'm not currently certain if its possible or even feasible to even consider amongst this games current state. However, in accordance with this concept is that, this personal ship, that was felt much subjective attachment to, was used for much more that either just a stationed instance ship, or something you just use in a pvp match. It had IMMERSIVE FUNCTIONALITY THAT CREATED ATTACHMENT. Part of this draws away from the immersive concept of what GSF is, in that it is just a "side game" and currently nothing more.

 

Sorry for the wall of text. However, this being said, with the way GSF currently exists, there are current mechanical aspects that could definitely be fine tuned for what the system is currently as well. While this game is GSF, and not (insert flight sim here) there are certain aspects to it that I feel that myself and many feel contradictory and counterintuitive to how a well implemented flight sim is required to operate. The first being some of the mechanics of dogfighting and combat within GSF, specifically revolving around how a ship moves between aiming, attacking, and leading targets. In this current game, leading targets does not feel so much like leading targets as it feels like aiming at the reticle to score a hit. Conceptually that is what is "supposed" to be the functionality of the lead reticle, but it feels as if the reticle is the hitbox as opposed to leading a fighter to score a hit on the hitbox, regardless of what that fighter does to evade and avoid enemy fire. Consider this, evasion in this game feels very arcade without having any real ability in avoiding fire if a person can hit the reticle because of the how hitboxes seem to work. While there is some slight nuance a pilot can make to avoid being protecting their reticle to evasive maneuvers, ultimately the system feels binary in that I am not actually aiming to hit a Starfighter, I am aiming to hit a reticle to score said damage on that ship. This takes away from the realism (despite a wizard knight video game) of the mechanics of simulated flight in that the pilot can only effectively do so much in order to maintain his survivability. Aiming SHOULD BE HARD, however not difficult enough where it deters players from wanting to jump in and learn the mechanics of flying. Making the game too arcade can attract a casual demographic that in effect breeds a community around something that does not feel like authentic flight. In addition to this, much of the way that dogfighting is done is supplemented through the action of a cool down to increase "evasion" stat that acts as a dodge feature that allows a ship to not be hit. Here I will be harsh in that this seems like a very LAZY way of implementing a flight system in which and easy fix to give a "dimension" of flight evasion nuance is to just give a cool down that acts as a placeholder for something such as dodging shots. Yes theoretically, ideas like scrambler fields and cool downs that can help avoid ordinance seem to have sound logic due to their tracking mechanics, however; in real flight mechanics, flares and chaffs can not avoid fired ammunition (in this case lasers) and is really a silly construct that feels lazy in design.

 

In addition to game mechanics and how the combat of GSF works, another HUUUUUGEEEE issue I know many people have with this game is the class design of ship around what our four ship types are, Strike, Scout, Bomber, Gunship.

 

-Specifically what I mean is that Strike and Scout are really the only ships that engage in space sim dogfighting (while strike are vastly underpowered as opposed to others, but we'll get to that) but 2 classes of ship are some sort of support class in which there IS NO DOGFIGHTING AT ALL. Gunships in this game are designed to be SNIPERS IN SPACE. What? Nobody, (besides those who play gunships in this subjective game), and I mean nobody, wants the idea of an artillery based gunship that can sit back (With almost all of its incredibly survivable defensive abilities) and sit stationary and should people and then run away and keep sniping pursuers until they are decimated. It is silly, and it is a copout for an exploitive playstyle that takes less skill (although this would be argued by its practitioners) for a construct that does not cater to authentic flight style simulations. It takes much away from the authenticity, the fun, and in many ways creative nuance for what the idea of a gunship could be for a space game, as opposed to (again I don't mean to be harsh) lazy and binary constructs for creating classes within this game.

 

-Bombers. Bombers are not ordinance based bombers that seems to be used in really any other flight sim. They are support based behemoths that drop down turrets and healing stations without having to really dogfight. No, I nor many others, are not a fan of this because it again it breeds a style that is not flight simulation based and almost feels like creating pve to do the fighting for you in a pvp game. True bombers are bulky heavy craft with large ordinance, weaponry, and defensives, that lack in speed, evasiveness, or hitbox size (they're big) in order to play a kind of class that is almost a function of a kind of reverse glass cannon (somewhat). They are a cannon in that if they are given the ability to hit something, they hurt, however; due to what should be limited maneuverability and easy to target frames, it balances out their survivability and ability to play. Again having functions like this in game, deters people are privy to real flight gameplay, and while this style of play is okay for some, core demographics of flight player-bases are lost if you add mechanics such as this that makes GSF less of an authentic flight sim.

 

Strike Fighters- This is a short easy one, they are dogfighters, but inferior to most other classes in the game, they are supposed to be this balanced jack of all trades superiority fighter that can is a blend of many things but in the current state of affairs, they are dogfighters (current con) that perform dogfighting the worst of all the classes. In specificity, there are many ways to highlight changes that could improve them, but for now, I am just going to keep this post mostly conceptual as it has been very long.

 

More about gearing balance, While I understand that idea of having different crew members to add more or less advantages or disadvantages to a fighter, many of these aspects that can either "buff" or "nerf" a fighter feels artificial in that there is nothing in a genuine flight sim that can just add more missile tracking or more "evasion" (again) but even though this part might be slightly nitpicking where certain ship stats come from, most of the ships entire ability to perform should come from the mechanics of its parts inside it. From that point forward it is the pilots subjective skill that determines how successful they can be with their load out.

 

Match Mechanics. My first Gripe with match mechanics is simply a question why nobody can seem to move away from this match type of capture and defending three turrets as an objective based combat system. I like the idea of death match but forgive me in saying that there needs to be more creativity and creating objective-based pvp in a game that is a flight sim. One post I saw highlighted an idea for an escort style space warzone. Fantastic Idea. I am 99.99999% certain that nearly anyone who plays a flight sim wants a capital ship style attack/defend (SIMULTANEOUSLY) style of warzone. There the question lies whether or not it is feasible to create such a mode that can be implemented and handled with the games current engine. For example, everyone, since the dawn of time (video games) has wanted a system of space to ground combat pvp in which they worked in conjunction with either other to coordinately take out a capital ship or base of some kind or case. I know that everyone has always wanted this idea, and its wishful thinking and probably nearly impossible to do, but its this time of combat that people sincerely want to engage in.

 

Anyway, these are some starting concepts that I felt at least obliged to put out there. There is much more content and nuance that I'm certain that myself any many others could put together, but this at least gives a foundation for anything that could be used in consideration hopefully should it be looked at.

[real-stormwaltz]

This will not be a popular answer, so I'll keep it short:

 

I've never tried GSF because it's a PvP-only feature. In almost 20 years of playing online, I have never played PvP. I haven't a competitive bone in my body, and find it stressful rather than exhilarating. Short of adding a PvE mode, there's no way to get me to ever try GSF.

 

Eric's opening post said, "we want to see (GSF) being used by as many players as possible." That's a noble goal, but please realize that for some portion of your audience, a PvP-only feature is simply a non-starter.

[josephxp]

This will not be a popular answer, so I'll keep it short:

 

I've never tried GSF because it's a PvP-only feature. In almost 20 years of playing online, I have never played PvP. I haven't a competitive bone in my body, and find it stressful rather than exhilarating. Short of adding a PvE mode, there's no way to get me to ever try GSF.

 

Eric's opening post said, "we want to see (GSF) being used by as many players as possible." That's a noble goal, but please realize that for some portion of your audience, a PvP-only feature is simply a non-starter.

 

Well you never know if you will like it or hate it unless you give it a try, i didn't pvp much because i was the same way didn't like the heat of the competition but ya GSF changed my opinion on that because its completely different mechanics from the base game.

[Costello]

Lot of good points, the big sticking point has to be that its PvP only.

 

There are some vets who are bloody excellent. I have seen then decimate the enemy forces while we can be lucky to get an assist. Yes they have fully outfitted ships, they have read the guides and have the component class combinations that allow this. Yes they have a full squadron of ships like this and know the right one to use at any given time. These pilots have put in 100's if not 1000's of hours playing and deserve to acknowledged as experts.

 

No matter how you change the learning curve or the gearing or anything else that seem to be the problem it wont change that in PvP some people will be better. Now this only gets worse when the other side know they have an ace on and group up and suddenly your a pug vs a premade. These people may not even be doing it to be jerks, they may really be nice people but they will turn new or even okay players experience into a reload blown the up reload asking what the hell happened.

 

And if it is going to be PvP only then nothing will change this. You can't practice unless games are poping, the only time the pop are peak times when the aces are about. And then your practice time is getting blown up out of no where and wondering what happened. If your a competitive pvper this sure isn't going to appeal and if your not competitive and not that into PvP its really not going to appeal.

 

For most people PvP is fun when your winning and bad when your losing cause they are competitive which is what draws them to PvP. Aside from easy gear grinding few PvPers look forward to losing. So I don't know if you can have a PvP only mini game without Friction. It would be really helpful if the devs could come in and say what they are willing or able to do to fix it or if its an unfixable mess.

[ImmortalLowlife]

I disagree you need a joystick for two reasons

 

1. You need to buy a controller! Current is fine because every one has a keyboard and mouse

 

2. Just practice, practice and practice. I needed 3 weeks with nearly daily games to learn flying and several times in tutorial to adjust key binds to my needs and comfort. But the main problem still is, you have to learn to imagine where are you and in which direction you move the mouse to make the right turn to your target. That is possibly easier with joystick, but can be done with mouse too.

 

And, yes of course I played X-wing vs Tie-Fighter and X-Wing Alliance!

 

I just want to speak and give my 2 cents on this....

 

1. I STILL play with the basic mouse & keyboard that came with my PC. I'd be willing to bet you've probably got a "gaming mouse/keyboard combo with 53 buttons and 30 preset keybinds . But I've got 4 Xbox 360 controllers, 4 PS3 controllers, 2 PS4 controllers, 1 PC controller, & 1 joystick. And I bet I'm not the only one here who has at least one controller.

 

2. In the last 3 weeks, I've played SWTOR twice for about 3hrs each time. I don't have time to play everyday.

 

You yourself said "it might be easier with a joystick".... all we are asking for is that option. Not for the m/k controls to be eliminated.... but the option to use what we feel most comfortable with. It's really a win/win situation of you think about it. We get a control set up we feel more comfortable with, you get more people in que to play with. Even if we aren't as accurate as you.... at least we're now playing. Cause right now I'm not even que'ing.