Discussion Topic: Class Changes This Summer

[Ylliarus]

Balance is relative though, some specs like lightning and vigi gardian only seem underpowered because the other classes are ridiculous atm.

 

Especially the Merc is at times getting on my nerves. Last time in a Warzone three of us were trying to take down ONE Merc and we failed to do so as they self-healed and defended against all our attacks. Really, Lightning Sorcs need a buff, as well as Madness Sorcs and Mercs a nerf in my opinion

Edited June 8, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Krazhez]

Especially the Merc is at times getting on my nerves. Last time in a Warzone three of us were trying to take down ONE Merc and we failed to do so as they self-healed and defended against all our attacks. Really, Lightning Sorcs need a buff, as well as Madness Sorcs and Mercs a nerf in my opinion

 

Because people just keep healing them to full. Stun through or aoe through the reflect, then they don't get the heal, stun thru blue bubble or kill them before it expires, they don't get the heal, force them to trigger super kolto, then they basically have nothing left and kill them. The problem is when there are multiple mercs, and/or snipers imo. Though, a good sorc can keep people alive for days. Heals in general should get a higher trauma debuff in pvp, healing numbers are crazy.

 

I like the bringing classes in line with each other idea, bring up the classes at the bottom, better than nerfing. They need to learn middle ground, they usually over nerf or over buff.

[DarthCognusSion]

Something else that nobody ever considers. I lot of people who liked to play Sorc dps switched to Sorc healing because the dps was so bad but they wanted to keep playing Sorc. If Sorc dps gets buffed, I think you will see fewer Sorc healers. That being said, while healing is an issue in PvP, something needs to be done about it in that spectrum only. Nerfing healing across the board for Sorc just screws them in PvE. Balance affects both sides of the game, and just because something is broken OP in one side does not make it so on the other.

[ivanhedgehog]

My primary problem is that it provides Sages a no-effort burst heal. So when their ally is being focused in PvP, or when an Ops group hits a burst phase with a boss, Mandos and Scoundrels have to actively manage their resources and targetting through the burst, while WM will burst heal four people instantly when they take the damage, while the Sage can continue using other heals. That aspect of it needs a nerf. It behaves like a DoT in its fire and forget nature, but the burst heal is much larger than a DoT.

 

The nerf is kinda warranted for PvE and PvP both, though the magnitude of the nerf is not something I'll claim to be an expert in. Either cause it to drain resources a bit, or reduce the magnitude of the burst heal it gives.

 

That change isn't a purely PvP change, Sages outperform the other healers in PvE too. It's just the across-the-board-healer changes that'll have to be kept PvP specific, to prevent bosses from murdering every tank in existence.

 

sages have less defense that can be used while healing, I dont want to see a nerf everyone to satisfy the pvp crowd. separate pvp and pve. make a 4th spec that is just for pvp, make it the only spec that can be used while flagged.

[Red_rocks]

Lightning/telekinetics is NOT in a good place, put it on the list.

 

DPS output on no class needs nerfing. BUFF the weak ones - all classes should be theoretically capable in skilled hands of the 10k numbers posted above - currently they are not.

Some classes have overpowered utility and survivability - those can be nerfed but don't screw up our dps in ops in the name of balance when what classes like gunnery/arsenal need is a DCD nerf / ohcrapheal nerf.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Red_rocks

[Sertar]

For example, notice that Operative/Scoundrel healing isn't on this list, yet. Hmmmppffft. They should be in the list

 

Please don't buff Op Healer to FOTM. They aren't that far off! Give them 30% DR while stunned (in Healer spec tree so Concealment doesn't get this!) and some kind of Interrupt immunity and they're gucci. It's more important to tune Sorc Healer down in a smart way, dont buff other healers too much since healing is too effective compared to dps right now, especially if a tank is around the corner.

[KittyKat_Karrot]

Of course madness is on the list and not lightning. What do you guys expect? I mean, I only see madness sorcerers in PvP and bioware always listens to the PvP community. That's why they are going to buff madness and leave lightning the way it is.

 

My girlfriend and I only play lightning spec in pvp on our sorcs, and pvp is all we do. I find it more fun than madness, despite recognizing that it's sub-par. I haven't actually seen more madness sorcs than Ling sorcs the past few months, though dps sorcs in general aren't as common post-5.0 of course. Since launch, most of BW's bad balance decisions have had to do with pve concerns screwing pvp balance, not the other way around. I promise you: they don't, unfortunately, care about pvp and its balance as much as you're worried that they do.

 

Also, I think sorcs should be able to barrier while netted- but still be unable to phase walk and sprint obviously. If this was the case, the mando is trading their 90s net cooldown for the twice as long barrier cooldown of the sorc. A more than fair trade. The problem is that sorc healers are already OP, so this would draw rage over a counter to them being removed. Especially because of how sorcs can still use barrier to cheese acid mechanics to reliably win any arena round that goes to acid.

Edited June 8, 2017 by KittyKat_Karrot

[KittyKat_Karrot]

Engi/Sab: Plasma Probe/Incendiary Grenade's radius should be slightly reduced. It used to be too easy for people to move out of it before being stunned by EMP Discharge/Sabotage. Now it's too hard. Need a middle ground between then and now. And 70% slow is a bit too much.

[MuskyBoy]

when you are thinking of the changes you are going to make , can you get someone to duel a merc using a guardian or jugg ? when you do this you will see how much merc needs his root back from rocket punch , as a ranged DPS mercs need to keep away from melee classes and the root we had was invaluable to us , snipers have skills that slow a target or root them but mercs dont seem to have any that work , as guardians or juggs can simple null the effect , maybe its guardians and juggs who need a nerf in this department .

 

You are aware that mercs have a utility (afterburners) they can take that allows this to be done with missile blast and it can be done in melee or ranged distance so no there is no need for a rocket punch return. And the jugg affect is called unstoppable and it lasts four seconds after leap watch their buff bar and use stuns/knock backs after this affect.

Edited June 8, 2017 by MuskyBoy

[Aeneas_Falco]

How about globally banning bad DPS who can't play their class and complain about indestructible healers in Operative/Scoundrels (who like Keith, I would love some OP meta and hate my lack of burst like the other healers) and Mercenary/Commando classes when our healing in PvE content is essential for progression. My luck varies in warzones between free casting and idiots who can't take me out as a sliver of health versus giant bites and the DoT spread of doom... DoT classes are the best healer killers. PvP is one giant game of rock-paper-scissors and objective warzones make it so that so many classes have value and merit.

 

 

 

A thousand times yes.

 

This.

 

While specific classes might need adjusting healing in general doesn't need to be nerfed. If a warzone group struggles because of one enemy healer than the DPS weren't doing their job of focusing that healer. Healers also need to be able to defend themselves somewhat (through heals and defensive abilities) when they're up against good groups that do focus them!

 

Like you my warzone experiences vary between matches where I heal with near impunity because of poor tactics on the opposing team who are going after the Guardians or Sentinels instead of me, and nail-biters where I'm not infrequently being focused by 2, 3, or 4 people, cleansing DOTs, and trying to avoid stun-lock city.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Aeneas_Falco

[nogoodtomedead]

I know i"m going to get a lot of flak for this post but whatever. I'll be brief, I am a arsenal merc main, have been since launch and its been a roller coaster of a ride. I'm writing this post because I don't want to see this class/spec be over nerfed and returned to a point where every other class in PVP, views us as a free kill. Now before i take to much flak, I'm not saying we don't need adjustments, just saying don't over due it.. My suggestion would be to examine the healing numbers of the DCDs in question, reduce them accordingly but please leave our damage alone.

 

No matter what happens, I'll continue playing my merc and I WILL make any opponent in PVP regret facing me.

[DocGamer]

i'm surprised that Lightning / Tk is not on the list ..

 

Lightning/TK is currently DEAD LAST in single target DPS right now. If the devs buff other classes before this one, then they are CONTINUING to create class imbalance!!! Devs pull your head out of you behind and buff these guys for the love of Pete!

[DanNV]

Whatever you do can you please find a way to separate the abilities into separate area. One for pvp and one for pve. I am tired of my class or classes being nerf just because of pvp. I understand there are problems in pvp but not everyone plays pvp so making a way for them in pvp so it doesn't affect pve would be nice.

 

Amen... I couldn't agree more.

[DanNV]

My primary problem is that it provides Sages a no-effort burst heal. So when their ally is being focused in PvP, or when an Ops group hits a burst phase with a boss, Mandos and Scoundrels have to actively manage their resources and targetting through the burst, while WM will burst heal four people instantly when they take the damage, while the Sage can continue using other heals. That aspect of it needs a nerf. It behaves like a DoT in its fire and forget nature, but the burst heal is much larger than a DoT.

 

Keep in mind, Sage healers have some of the worst resource management in the game (if not the worst) and wandering mend was put in to make them closer to even (and they still are the 3rd performing healer in most settings) after their other abilities were nerfed last time.

[Fireswraith]

Go back to the way classes originally were when the game released, that would be what I would change. Or instead of trying to balance classes from both ends (some go up, some go down, and they try and fail to meet somewhere in the middle) just balance from one end (from the top and bring all the rest up, or the bottom and bring all the rest down). But class balance is an impossible task so just make sure Sorcs come out on top.

[DanNV]

with lightening and marksman being left out i wonder if instead of buffing the ones listed, everything is getting nerfed down to that level.

 

Well, that would be one way to be sure almost no group out there can complete the existing raids, again. Of course, that might be rather detrimental to what little game population is left.

[ivanhedgehog]

Bioware needs to fix that bug because it is a huge problem in pvp

Thats why lightning sorcs are destroying all of those poor scoundrels and commandos..knew there was a reason.

[xeoneex]

I occasionally play my Sith Inq and one of the things that really annoys me is the ability Force Storm. I would absolutely LOVE to see the channel time extended considerably. I hate how short it is. I mean for me right now 2.85 is short. Wasn't it longer at one point? I would love to see this extended to 5 seconds or a bit more. Obviously know they won't consider it but I just want to put it as I want it bad -_-. Just my $0.02

 

While we are on the subject why not think about extending force lightning. I don't quite understand why these have to be so short when there is no cooldowns (force lightning has no cooldown if you are Madness specced) or any consequences for using them for extended periods.

[ivanhedgehog]

will you globally nerf healing? because atm one healer on 8 man wz can seriously turn the tide of such fight. people were. are and will say that healing is to easy and to powerfull in this game.

 

one healer SHOULD turn the tide. It is a force multiplier. If you cant kill that healer, thats on you.

[lukereynoldsmcd]

Hey folks,

 

As Keith mentioned in the roadmap, we want to start the process of having weekly discussion threads here on the forums. Let's get this started with our first topic, Class changes starting with Game Update 5.3. Let us know what you think of the list! Are these the Disciplines you expected to see? Are any missing and if so which ones and why?

 

The following is each Class/Discipline we are currently looking into changing. By Friday, we will begin posting in-depth threads on exactly what is happening to each Discipline. This will include whether they are being buffed or nerfed and why, along with the specific planned changes. These threads will get posted over a few weeks. Here is the current summer list:

• Sorc and Sage
  
  • Madness/Balance
    
  • Corruption/Seer
    

  [*]PT and Vanguard

  • Pyrotech/Plasmatech
    

  [*]Assassin and Shadow

  • Hatred/Serenity
    

  [*]Sniper and Gunslinger

  • Virulence/Dirty Fighting
    
  • Engineering/Saboteur
    

  [*]Merc and Commando

  • Innovative Ordnance/Assault Specialist
    
  • Arsenal/Gunnery
    

 

You will obviously have a number of questions, but here’s a few that may be on your mind:

 

Why are these Disciplines being looked at for changes?

Between data and player feedback, these are the Disciplines that appear to be most in need of change. Whether that is that they are too good, or not good enough, these Disciplines need attention first.

 

What about the missing Classes/Disciplines?

If a Class or Discipline is missing from this list it doesn't mean they won't be receiving changes at all, it is just that they are not receiving changes in the near future. In most cases this means that those Classes and/or Disciplines are in an ok place. It doesn't mean they don't need changes (both buff and nerf) but that other Disciplines need them sooner.

 

When will we receive a detailed breakdown of the changes?

I will be working with the team on getting the exact changes out to you as soon as they are ready. Based on what I know today, we will start posting those threads (which will be posted by Discipline) this week and throughout June.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

 

The Sniper/Gunslinger and the IO Merc and AP Commando DO NOT need to be altered!! They are in a good place and I have heard no complaints about anyof them.

[DARKLORDLS]

I can't believe no one is mentioning Powertech's... PT's have the worst survivability in the game hands down! They are useless in Ranked unless you are a very good PT tank. In every aspect PT's are at the bottom in PvP but their burst. They nerfed their kolto to 35% in 5.0....wth!? I have popped ALL of my defensive's, shield, AOE taunt, Kolto and 3% heal from the shoulder cannon and I can still be dropped by only a few players in no time. I can understand this if PT's were ranged classes but they aren't, it's a melee class that can only survive in the mix of things a few seconds. They are a worthless class without a very good pocket healer. Jugs, Mara's and Op's have a lot more survivability.

[SithKoriandr]

What I'd really want to see, and fortune has it I made a thread about it just before this one was released, is Force Lightning being returned to Sith Assassins and Project to Jedi Shadows. It was such an iconic move of that class, the Sith Inquisitor and Jedi Consular class. I really found it a great pity they were removed from those two advanced classes while in the Sith Inquisitor storyline a Sith Assassin still uses Force Lightning frequently in cutscenes.

 

Perhaps the abilities could be returned to Sith Assassins and Jedi Shadows in the class changes coming this summer, their mobility maintained by for example a new Utility that would make Force Lightning or Project castable while moving?

 

Agreed! Want the Project and Force Lightning returned. Could just as easily make them equal to the powers that replace them, so we can just choose which we want to use, as they are on the same cooldown.

 

Miss them so much!

[DARKLORDLS]

As far as "nerfs", Sniper's are the OP class right now, unbeatable if the player is good. 1v1 they are king. KitchenSink proved that wrecking everyone in a recent tournament. Merc's have a lot of CD's, I'm thinking this was done in 5.0 for the healing spec mainly. People just don't know how to handle mercs, 1v1 they are easy to beat. 1. don't do damage to them with their reflect up only AOE, 2. keep them stunned through their blue shield some say to kill them before it drops but that's dumb because you can just manually click it off and get the heal when you want it, 3. interrupt their casts of tracer/blazing bolts if you're able.

 

Sorcs, they seem like they are made of paper now when I play mine. If I don't get away from a Mara or the like quickly my bubble barely blocks any incoming damage and Im toast. If I remember right they took about a 35% healing nerf with 5.0, damage nerfs in 4.0, they need some help for sure.

 

If I were to list the classes needing a little buff/love it would be as follows;

 

1. Sorc and PT's

2. Operatives (Yes I know crazy thought BUT, the class isn't capable of the numbers other classes can dish out in PvP. I notice when I play mine I spend a lot of time rolling and healing to stay alive in the mix of things instead of dealing damage. They are great 1v1, I think thats why they can't bump them up to other classes DPS in PvP. Their Noxious Knives is a HORRIBLE AoE. Very unreliable when you are trying to spread DoT's with it. This class needs a lot of rework. They can't do certain things with it because of X Y and Z, so fix X Y and Z to fix the class and make them viable.

3. Assassins

[Nmyownworld]

I primarily do PVE solo play, and never parsed a thing in my life. I leave the technical discussion of class changes to other players. One thing I do ask of you, Keith Kanneg, is please put the class changes on the PTS before putting them on live servers. Make it an open test. Allow enough time for players to try them out, like over two weekends.

[Zolxtren]

Just buff lighting sorc thats all im asking for.

I hate madnes....for me that spec does not even exist...

Edited June 9, 2017 by Zolxtren