casirabit Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 The list must contain Lightning/Telekinesis, which currently has the most underperforming DPS. Hey all, I told Musco I would wait until tomorrow to post anything, but, but, but, I simply couldn't do it. I've seen so many posts about Sage/Sorc TK/Lightning, I had to jump in. The list is ONLY the start and the ones listed may be included in Patch 5.3, but we might move some changes out to Patch 5.4 and include other Disciplines not yet mentioned. For example, notice that Operative/Scoundrel healing isn't on this list, yet. Hmmmppffft. They should be in the list, as I want to see my healers indestructible and completely outperforming all other healing classes! Alas, I know we won't do that, but I'd love it, even for a month!!! Keith--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightblazer Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) Hey all, I told Musco I would wait until tomorrow to post anything, but, but, but, I simply couldn't do it. I've seen so many posts about Sage/Sorc TK/Lightning, I had to jump in. The list is ONLY the start and the ones listed may be included in Patch 5.3, but we might move some changes out to Patch 5.4 and include other Disciplines not yet mentioned. For example, notice that Operative/Scoundrel healing isn't on this list, yet. Hmmmppffft. They should be in the list, as I want to see my healers indestructible and completely outperforming all other healing classes! Alas, I know we won't do that, but I'd love it, even for a month!!! Keith--- Could be reading into it too much but sounds like they want to focus on smaller groups at a time. Instead of trying to balance all 8 advanced classes and 24 disciplines at the same time, that they want to do them in groups but that just may be reading too much into it. Edited June 8, 2017 by Nightblazer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadagyt Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 HOPEFULLY you guys are ONLY changing merc off heals and NOT destroying our dps especially on an arsenal RAIDING situation...as NOT CAVING TO THE PVPERS for gods sake. how many times do we HAVE to go through this!!!!!!!! I gave up my operative I played because of a bunch of infants were screaming how we were op in pvp...note i didn't pvp i RAIDED. How about instead of screwing us over..make a separate tree that auto turns on when pvp is activated...that way pve'ers are NOT harmed over this kind of idiocy! Remember when the SIN hatred got nerfed and destroyed because of pvp? I do. Each time they get a class right for pve, they have to nerf it and ruin it because of pvp. I'm seriously worried about this merc nerf to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanNV Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 lol Not really OP??? What are you high? heh There has never, in the entire history of this game, been a class more OP than Commandos/Mercs currently. You're crazy. Sents/Maras were WAY OP for a very LONG time. The most anything ever has been. The only issue with fighting mercs/mandos is L2P. Don't attack while the bubble is up and they melt. I have one to prove is. Go look at the ranked stats. Last i checked mercs and mandos weren't exactly top of the heap there, either. The lot of you are just griping because you can't melt the mandos as fast as you used to be able to. I've already had one main raid character nerfed into being unwelcome on a raid team (and 2 updates later, it's still useless.) If it happens again to another I'm out and my monthly sub with me. I am not going to level yet another toon to try to gear it through the mess that is gearing now. Nope. Not gonna happen. There isn't enough left of this game that's worth playing to be worth the time or effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jushyfruit Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I'm curious to see if they have accounted for lightning/TK chain lightning bug and whether or not that factors into their class balance changes. The bug itself has been posted on the forum so finding what's causing the bug should be something the devs should be looking at when changing the spec. For those unfamiliar with the bug, it makes chain lightning/TK wave an instant cast allowing it to be used twice as much. This is a significant DPS increase which puts their DPS on an equal level to arsenal mercs. Not only does it allow less lightning bolt fillers but it also buffs AOE damage and affliction indirectly because every cast of chain lightning refreshes affliction AND causes it to tick an extra time because of the refresh. So many sorcs/sages are abusing this bug now and the devs should seriously look into either making chain lightning an instant by default with less damage or fixing the bug before they do major changes to the spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyWookiee Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 It's nice that Operative DPS is finally viable in PVE, however, they're definitely lacking when it comes to survivability. Most all of the utility points have to be placed into defensive selections (regardless if healing or dpsing) rather than offensive just to stay alive and this really hampers their total damage output and usefulness. Additionally, it would be nice to see them inflict the Sundered, rather than Assailable, debuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 For example, notice that Operative/Scoundrel healing isn't on this list, yet. Hmmmppffft. They should be in the list, as I want to see my healers indestructible and completely outperforming all other healing classes! Alas, I know we won't do that, but I'd love it, even for a month!!! Keith--- Queue conspiracy theory posts starting now! You do realize you can pretty much never have those classes buffed now because it will trigger even more "nepotism" posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zolxtren Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 no Lighting changes ? are you freaken kidding me ? one of the worst spec in the entire freaken game...... jesus people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkMoney Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) You're crazy. Sents/Maras were WAY OP for a very LONG time. The most anything ever has been. The only issue with fighting mercs/mandos is L2P. Don't attack while the bubble is up and they melt. I have one to prove is. Go look at the ranked stats. Last i checked mercs and mandos weren't exactly top of the heap there, either. The lot of you are just griping because you can't melt the mandos as fast as you used to be able to. I've already had one main raid character nerfed into being unwelcome on a raid team (and 2 updates later, it's still useless.) If it happens again to another I'm out and my monthly sub with me. I am not going to level yet another toon to try to gear it through the mess that is gearing now. Nope. Not gonna happen. There isn't enough left of this game that's worth playing to be worth the time or effort. Gunslinger and Sentinels are the only class without self-heals, and limited defensive cools downs, wearing medium armor. There is no reason a scoundrel and commando should be top DPS, when they can off-heal themselves. As a sentinel or gunslinger, I should blow you up, and you should expect to be blown up. Sentinels, we have always been glass cannons Edited June 8, 2017 by MonkMoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELRunninW Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I did like the direction that was promised recently. Make dot specs do most DPS while burst should do less than that. At the same time let melee classes do more damage than range classes. That seems fair. Looking at some of the responses in this threat I am afraid that some people are misinformed about the state of the class balance. I am not saying I am right, I just strongly disagree with some suggestions. We were always missing a transparency in how decisions are made regarding class balance. One thing that I find we all as players can agree on, is asking the same question, who the hell thought this current state would be a good idea, even if we have slightly different opinion on the outcome. There are skilled players out there, reach out and get their input. Give us more open testing of the class balance and let us get involved by sharing your decision-making process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaantheLoneWolf Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) no Lighting changes ? are you freaken kidding me ? one of the worst spec in the entire freaken game...... jesus people. As Keith said: "Hey all, I told Musco I would wait until tomorrow to post anything, but, but, but, I simply couldn't do it. I've seen so many posts about Sage/Sorc TK/Lightning, I had to jump in. The list is ONLY the start and the ones listed may be included in Patch 5.3, but we might move some changes out to Patch 5.4 and include other Disciplines not yet mentioned. For example, notice that Operative/Scoundrel healing isn't on this list, yet. Hmmmppffft. They should be in the list, as I want to see my healers indestructible and completely outperforming all other healing classes! Alas, I know we won't do that, but I'd love it, even for a month!!! Keith---" Reading saves lives... Also, while we're at it, is there any chance at all, to any of the devs, about getting TK Throw and Force Lightning back on Shadows and Assassins respectively? It was a key part of my rotation before, and Force Lightning is also like "the" ability of the Sith Inquisitor. It would be very much appreciated if we got it back Also, as a suggestion, maybe add Force Push to Jedi Sentinels? Ahsoka using it with her twin sabers shows that it is possible to Force Push someone in spite of having both hands occupied Thank you for your time devs. Edited June 8, 2017 by VaantheLoneWolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akimal Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 From previous discussions from BW about where they envision dps should be, and from my personal opinion this a list of where I think the dps rankings should be. I have figured in defencive ability, burst potential, Aoe potential, self/raid healing, taunt/stealth ability into the ranking. This list is mostly geared toward PVE, but i think it should work well for pvp as well, what do you guys think? (1 : top dps, 7: worst dps ) 1: Annihilation Marauder 2: Hatred Assassin & Vengeance Juggernaut & Pyrotech Powertech & Lethality Operative 3:Virulence Sniper & Saboteur Sniper 4: Madness Sorcerer & IO Mercenary & Rage Juggernaut & Fury Marauder 5: Carnage Marauder & AP Powertech & Deception Assassin 6: Marksmanship Sniper & Concealment Operative 7: Arsenal Mercenary & Lightning Sorcerer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elspethfire Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 PLZ PLZ dont mess with the snipers anymore i use to be a marksmen but then i went Virulence and i love it i went that way because the marksmen went south and fast but then i went to Virulence and i love it its amazing so i don't see why u need to mess with it unless its the PVP ppl having a cow again how snipers are to much of a hassle to beat i say leave them because it will force them to make that toon and thus learn its weaknesses and strengths so they know how to beat them PLZ PLZ dont mess with the sniper classes u nerfed them once adn then buffed them again and i feel u are going to nerf them again to get he PVP ppl to stop grumping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendingSky Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) Commandos are fine right now IMO. They can actually survive some damage if they use their cool-downs correctly, just like other classes. People are just use to them being easy kills. They also have weaknesses built into those cool-downs, just like other classes. Pyrotech and it's mirror is in need of serious dmg increase. Sage/Sorc should be a bit higher DPS, they are the squishy class. Operative's AOE fire device (don't know the name) is way over tuned. Vanguard tanks could also use some love, maybe up to duration or % of their Defensive cool-downs. Commandos/Mercenaries make better tanks than Vanguards/Powertechs right now, thanks to their obscene selection of defensive cooldowns! I would pay real money for my Vanguard tank to get some of those DCDs, because the Shield spec badly needs them. All while being able to heal and cleanse themselves and put out a ton more DPS to boot! They are not 'fine', they are OP. Not indestructible, no, but definitely OP, and they need to be brought back into balance. Edited June 8, 2017 by AscendingSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardera Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) geez dont destroy my dps output in OPS because of PVPer crying again....lets hope you learned your lesson bioware i have a sub until august 6 if you nerf my DPS output i unsub im not grinding 300 level of CXP on anothre toon bioware you can forget this Edited June 8, 2017 by scardera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneHit Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) Glad to see you guys are finally going to buff mercs. Long over due Edited June 8, 2017 by OneHit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zolxtren Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) As Keith said: "Hey all, I told Musco I would wait until tomorrow to post anything, but, but, but, I simply couldn't do it. I've seen so many posts about Sage/Sorc TK/Lightning, I had to jump in. The list is ONLY the start and the ones listed may be included in Patch 5.3, but we might move some changes out to Patch 5.4 and include other Disciplines not yet mentioned. For example, notice that Operative/Scoundrel healing isn't on this list, yet. Hmmmppffft. They should be in the list, as I want to see my healers indestructible and completely outperforming all other healing classes! Alas, I know we won't do that, but I'd love it, even for a month!!! Keith---" Reading saves lives... Also, while we're at it, is there any chance at all, to any of the devs, about getting TK Throw and Force Lightning back on Shadows and Assassins respectively? It was a key part of my rotation before, and Force Lightning is also like "the" ability of the Sith Inquisitor. It would be very much appreciated if we got it back Also, as a suggestion, maybe add Force Push to Jedi Sentinels? Ahsoka using it with her twin sabers shows that it is possible to Force Push someone in spite of having both hands occupied Thank you for your time devs. yeah i read it... still staying with what i said it Lighting should have ben a freaken priority egual to merc compared to all the other spec its the most broken and its not just not a priority but its not even on the the list of things that get fixed 1st ? realy ??? REALY ??? as i said i lost my faith in the team that they know what the word balancing means...... its like class is super underpowered ? nobody uses it ? crap both in pve pvp ? freekill everywhere ? who cares lets balance the classes that barely have any issues just need some minor changes and maybe 2 months later we will actualy fix the totaly broken classes Edited June 8, 2017 by Zolxtren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyobear Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 geez dont destroy my dps output in OPS because of PVPer crying again....lets hope you learned your lesson bioware i have a sub until august 6 if you nerf my DPS output i unsub im not grinding 300 level of CXP on anothre toon bioware you can forget this That what I am afraid of the most, having to regrind a new toon cause my merc and sniper was nerf to the ground. My sniper is not even 300 yet. That would suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glzmo Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I really hope Defense Guardian will get some improvements. Currently it can soak damage worse than other tanks and even some healer or DPS advanced classes at times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) Edit --- Missed Keith's post. Edited June 8, 2017 by alexsamma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zolxtren Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I really hope Defense Guardian will get some improvements. Currently it can soak damage worse than other tanks and even some healer or DPS advanced classes at times... the only DPS class that can soak dmg better is merc.... and only because they are broken and needs a giant nerfhammer in the face...... i mean not just WZs where you need to kill a single merc 3 times before he dies. but also in Flashpoints where the healer and tank + dps dies and seeing the DPS merc tanking and soloing down the boss from like 50%+ hp....... that ammount of healing is broken......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEnrique Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Really? What about Lightning Sorcerers? Why are you guys sooooooo keen on ignoring that discipline? It's insulting! Please stop ignoring that discipline and its problems and fix them. My God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReclaimerDonar Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Right now, with the right set of utilities, Mercenaries and Commandos are capable of having three lives. This means that killing them is extremely difficult, even with larger number of players. This needs to be adressed. Sniper's AOE slow needs to be toned down as well. Either increase cooldown or reduce the slow percentage by 30% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusramsey Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I don't see how Keith's post would be ammunition against more people complaining that lightning/tele isn't one of their main priorities. Nothing he said changes anything. The fact that the flood of people having to point out this oversight caught them by surprise should be incredibly worrisome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biomild Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) Thanks for the update! I really miss out PT/Vanguard Shield Specialist. At the moment the worst tank of all. Please give them the Trooper reflective shield as well as they really need an extra CD. Furthermore I agree with people that the Lightning Sorcerer needs improvements as well. Till 5.0 my Sorc/sage was my main, but now I havent played her since as she is useless... Edited June 8, 2017 by Biomild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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