Discussion Topic: Class Changes This Summer

[EricMusco]

Hey folks,

 

The first post of Class/Discipline changes is now live, Hatred Assassin / Serenity Shadow. Let us know your thoughts in the thread.

 

-eric

[curulz]

No...it's extremely effective in PvE. Good friend of mine uses it all the time to p*** me off by translocating me somewhere I don't want to be...like running over the bridge in S&V, minding my own business and suddenly my camera goes all wonky and I'm ported back to a gaping hole and I'm plummeting to my death a fraction of a second later...

 

But yes, other than griefing me, I've found it useless in PvE too

 

yep, I pretty much only use it to grief people.

 

I'd love to see a reflect ability for PT similar to jugs/sins. They lag behind those other tanks currently. Not saying that they need to be made the best, but at least close the gap between PT and the other two tanks in terms of usefulness.

[FerkWork]

No...it's extremely effective in PvE. Good friend of mine uses it all the time to p*** me off by translocating me somewhere I don't want to be...like running over the bridge in S&V, minding my own business and suddenly my camera goes all wonky and I'm ported back to a gaping hole and I'm plummeting to my death a fraction of a second later...

 

But yes, other than griefing me, I've found it useless in PvE too

 

Ok, yes very effective by that logic. But still inferior to troll pull because it can't be used on the mounted. Dreams crushed. D:

[DarthEnrique]

Hey folks,

 

The first post of Class/Discipline changes is now live, Hatred Assassin / Serenity Shadow. Let us know your thoughts in the thread.

 

-eric

 

Thanks for letting us know Lighting/TK will pretty much never be a top priority or ever going to get a boost, this blatant ignore of the upset that it has caused and a crappy excuse for it to once again not get a top priority to get a buff is pretty much saying that so why don't you just tell us that you guys are going to do nothing to Lighting/TK and that you like it as a crappy DPS discipline instead of making excuses and ignoring the upset? You killed in 3.0 for a reason and have left it as crap since. Is that what you wanted and do we now have to suck it up?

Edited June 9, 2017 by DarthEnrique

[Thaladan]

is any devs here (keith or Musco) who can clarify if you will "just" buff/nerf the disciplines of the selected specs but not the class utilities, in 5.3? Edited June 9, 2017 by Thaladan

[Lionflash]

is any devs here (keith or Musco) who can clarify if you will "just" buff/nerf the tree abilities/effects of the selected specs but not the class utilities (, in 5.3?

 

I wanna know if they will fix the bugs/broken utilities that don't work properly.

[slukslaksla]

i made a big post about this a bit back: here about the sorc and why/what it needs to balance.

 

lots of interesting stuff there.

 

but yes as u guessed sorc NEEDS a dmg buff aka we need both lightning AND madness to be buffed.

 

now pardon me if my post there or here sounds a bit salty or angry but, i just love the sorc so mouch. its the first ever class i played back close to launch and it always was the coolest looking one to me.

 

to sum up my thread though, sorc healer is fine (as long as pvp matchmaking gets tweaked to not have 4 of them on 1 team). and madness/lightning needs a overall buff to dmg both burst and sustained.

 

example: the highest crit i had as a lightning sorc in roughly full 230 gear was 10-11k on the hardest hitting abilities. the more spammable stuff i never got more than 5-7k (easely out-healed in pvp) and my guildie in full 248 sorc had never seen higher than 14-15k crits. (and those were only rearly happening)

 

then you have mercs net ability wich can literly cancel your only death defying defensive (aka force barrier) wich in pvp is quite bad considdering it can only be cleanced by cc break. wich has a wary long cd.

 

this combined with the fact that sorcs heals aint exactly great as a dmg spec makes you a mercs dream, or anyones dream for that matter. not to mention barrier only prolongs the innevitable and ur gonna die the second its off, unless you were lucky enaugh to place a phasewalk before u went into the fight.

 

to me the highest priority would be to nerf merc considderably both their dmg and defense, and buff those same things for the sorc.

[AscendingSky]

Ok, yes very effective by that logic. But still inferior to troll pull because it can't be used on the mounted. Dreams crushed. D:

 

Not to mention with it having a cast time, your target can move out of range before you can complete the troll effort! So it's not even particularly effective at making the point to idiot DPS that you shouldn't run ahead of the damned tank all the kriffing time, come on, let me do my job here...

 

...not that I'm bitter or anything.

[DarthEnrique]

i made a big post about this a bit back: here about the sorc and why/what it needs to balance.

 

lots of interesting stuff there.

 

but yes as u guessed sorc NEEDS a dmg buff aka we need both lightning AND madness to be buffed.

 

now pardon me if my post there or here sounds a bit salty or angry but, i just love the sorc so mouch. its the first ever class i played back close to launch and it always was the coolest looking one to me.

 

to sum up my thread though, sorc healer is fine (as long as pvp matchmaking gets tweaked to not have 4 of them on 1 team). and madness/lightning needs a overall buff to dmg both burst and sustained.

 

example: the highest crit i had as a lightning sorc in roughly full 230 gear was 10-11k on the hardest hitting abilities. the more spammable stuff i never got more than 5-7k (easely out-healed in pvp) and my guildie in full 248 sorc had never seen higher than 14-15k crits. (and those were only rearly happening)

 

then you have mercs net ability wich can literly cancel your only death defying defensive (aka force barrier) wich in pvp is quite bad considdering it can only be cleanced by cc break. wich has a wary long cd.

 

this combined with the fact that sorcs heals aint exactly great as a dmg spec makes you a mercs dream, or anyones dream for that matter. not to mention barrier only prolongs the innevitable and ur gonna die the second its off, unless you were lucky enaugh to place a phasewalk before u went into the fight.

 

to me the highest priority would be to nerf merc considderably both their dmg and defense, and buff those same things for the sorc.

 

I love my lightning Sorcerer but I'm not thrilled they aren't getting a massive buff they need.

[Nightblazer]

Thanks for letting us know Lighting/TK will pretty much never be a top priority or ever going to get a boost, this blatant ignore of the upset that it has caused and a crappy excuse for it to once again not get a top priority to get a buff is pretty much saying that so why don't you just tell us that you guys are going to do nothing to Lighting/TK and that you like it as a crappy DPS discipline instead of making excuses and ignoring the upset? You killed in 3.0 for a reason and have left it as crap since. Is that what you wanted and do we now have to suck it up?

 

Where did they say they won't ever fix lightning / to spec. All I read was that in the first round they were focusing on Maddness / balance first. Doesn't say lightning / to will never ever be fixed.

[OverLordRAMM]

Hey keith , these are my proposed changes

Mercenary:

Remove Trauma regulators and give it to powertechs, this should solve the OP merc in ranked pvp :PArsenal:

Make the Barrage internal cooldown either 7.5 sec or 9 sec, right now its 8secs and not a multiple of a GCD. it will turn into a rotation instead of priority based

IO:

Make the dot spread easier, right now it takes 2 different abilities to spread 2 dots and is heavy energy negative.

1.fusion missile should spread both the dots

2.make energy management somewhat easier, example: proccing speed to burn gives 5 energy.

3.make death from above free of cost as it has very long cooldown (45s) and helps in energy managenment.

Sniper:

Engineering:

1. plasma probe slow effect: chnage it from 70% to 30% slow.

Virulence:

make weakening blast off GCD, it will make the spec some what burstier reducing the ramp up time

right now its" dot dot WB than cull, thats 3 gcd with no real damage

Sorcerer:

Lightning:

1.Remove the cast time of chain lightning, aka make it instant always that should solve dps problems

Madness:

1. Increase damage from Demolish by 10%

2. Force lightning gives back 2% of force instead of 1%

3.increase the damage in execute by creeping death from 15% to 30%.

Powertech:

New Utility: Trauma regulators

new ability: responsive safeguards

Pyrotech:

1.searing wave buff it by 10% damage

2. searing wave does not cost any energy with 2 stacks of superheated flamethrower, it should solve the energy problems.

3.change the burnout damage from 10% to 30% in execute phase

4. spread both scorch and incendiary with searing wave

5. buff flame burst by 10%

6.sonic missile increases AOE damage reduction by 60% for 15secs , similar to juggs , will make them less squishy.

Edited June 9, 2017 by OverLordRAMM

[cultofcargo]

regarding balance sage

 

REMOVE force serenity from sages

 

You added it so that you could put it on the utility where all 3 disciplines get an ability to use while moving.

now remove it and replace it with a passive damage buff or something that fits the playstyle of balance

 

the ability is clunky and serves no purpose at all

 

sure this means a rework of force mobility but that is fine

 

force serenity does not do anything for balance and takes away from the playstyle

 

make balance great again

 

P.S: whats up with tk throw ticking twice as fast and for half the damage? what is the point? MAKE BALANCE GREAT AGAIN

[DarthCognusSion]

i made a big post about this a bit back: here about the sorc and why/what it needs to balance.

 

lots of interesting stuff there.

 

but yes as u guessed sorc NEEDS a dmg buff aka we need both lightning AND madness to be buffed.

 

now pardon me if my post there or here sounds a bit salty or angry but, i just love the sorc so mouch. its the first ever class i played back close to launch and it always was the coolest looking one to me.

 

to sum up my thread though, sorc healer is fine (as long as pvp matchmaking gets tweaked to not have 4 of them on 1 team). and madness/lightning needs a overall buff to dmg both burst and sustained.

 

example: the highest crit i had as a lightning sorc in roughly full 230 gear was 10-11k on the hardest hitting abilities. the more spammable stuff i never got more than 5-7k (easely out-healed in pvp) and my guildie in full 248 sorc had never seen higher than 14-15k crits. (and those were only rearly happening)

 

then you have mercs net ability wich can literly cancel your only death defying defensive (aka force barrier) wich in pvp is quite bad considdering it can only be cleanced by cc break. wich has a wary long cd.

 

this combined with the fact that sorcs heals aint exactly great as a dmg spec makes you a mercs dream, or anyones dream for that matter. not to mention barrier only prolongs the innevitable and ur gonna die the second its off, unless you were lucky enaugh to place a phasewalk before u went into the fight.

 

to me the highest priority would be to nerf merc considderably both their dmg and defense, and buff those same things for the sorc.

 

A couple of things:

Both Sorc dps specs need buffs. I don't know anyone who understands game balance who disagrees.

 

I'm not sure what you and your friend are doing, but if you can't get crits over 15k, then you are doing something wrong. The average crit for my Thundering Blast is 19-20k, and I'm not in full 248.

 

Sorc Healing is too powerful in PvP, and it needs some adjustments. While they can nerf the healing a little bit, they need to address this as a PvP issue as too much will hurt PvE healing. One idea that I've seen that I quite like is using bolster to nerf overall healing by a significant amount or buff PvP trauma.

 

Merc DCDs need to be nerfed but their damage is fine. Other classes simply need damage buffs.

Edited June 9, 2017 by DarthCognusSion

[cultofcargo]

oh, and buff trauma

[Foambreaker]

Please balance classes around GROUP/TEAM not 1v1.

 

That is all

 

P.S. Don't nerf me

[Toraak]

Hey keith , these are my proposed changes

 

Virulence:

make weakening blast off GCD, it will make the spec some what burstier reducing the ramp up time

right now its" dot dot WB than cull, thats 3 gcd with no real damages

 

Plz do not do this. A bonus to having Weakening blast on the GCD, is it helps virulence snipers with Energy management. Yes it does take 3 gcd's to start getting decent damage, however this spec does pull solid DPS numbers currently and truly does not need any changes to it. Virulence is in a good place right now.

 

If you really need to change anything for this spec, reduce the cost of Takedown.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Increase DPS damage utilities 60% of utilities for DPS are garbage

 

Can I get the number of your drug dealer please?

 

You'd be seeing 60k hits regularly.

 

Two DPS could kill almost anyone in two or three hits. Healers wouldn't even have enough time to click the heal button once they saw the large swath of damage team mates just sustained and the second person would already be dead by the time the healer needlessly tried to heal the first person who just died.

 

Healer's wouldn't be able to keep anyone standing for more than10 seconds and that's in their present form.

 

Tanks guarding others would drop like flies.

 

Ranged would become infinitely more Op than they already are.

 

Stealth would rule working in teams of two or three. Because they would be the only ones who could avoid the insane damage and could sucker punch players out of now where and kill them before people even realized they were just attacked out of no where.

 

WZs would last 5 seconds from all the people quitting the wzs.

 

The game would close down from all the people who unsubscribed due to such obvious insanity and untenable play.

 

Word of advice, I'd say I was joking if I were you, which you may very well have been, and I'd say it even if it was a lie heh

Edited June 9, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[jeronimocollares]

Hey folks,

 

As Keith mentioned in the roadmap, we want to start the process of having weekly discussion threads here on the forums. Let's get this started with our first topic, Class changes starting with Game Update 5.3. Let us know what you think of the list! Are these the Disciplines you expected to see? Are any missing and if so which ones and why?

 

The following is each Class/Discipline we are currently looking into changing. By Friday, we will begin posting in-depth threads on exactly what is happening to each Discipline. This will include whether they are being buffed or nerfed and why, along with the specific planned changes. These threads will get posted over a few weeks. Here is the current summer list:

• Sorc and Sage
  
  • Madness/Balance
    
  • Corruption/Seer
    

  [*]PT and Vanguard

  • Pyrotech/Plasmatech
    

  [*]Assassin and Shadow

  • Hatred/Serenity
    

  [*]Sniper and Gunslinger

  • Virulence/Dirty Fighting
    
  • Engineering/Saboteur
    

  [*]Merc and Commando

  • Innovative Ordnance/Assault Specialist
    
  • Arsenal/Gunnery
    

 

You will obviously have a number of questions, but here’s a few that may be on your mind:

 

Why are these Disciplines being looked at for changes?

Between data and player feedback, these are the Disciplines that appear to be most in need of change. Whether that is that they are too good, or not good enough, these Disciplines need attention first.

 

What about the missing Classes/Disciplines?

If a Class or Discipline is missing from this list it doesn't mean they won't be receiving changes at all, it is just that they are not receiving changes in the near future. In most cases this means that those Classes and/or Disciplines are in an ok place. It doesn't mean they don't need changes (both buff and nerf) but that other Disciplines need them sooner.

 

When will we receive a detailed breakdown of the changes?

I will be working with the team on getting the exact changes out to you as soon as they are ready. Based on what I know today, we will start posting those threads (which will be posted by Discipline) this week and throughout June.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

 

I think it's time to change the mechanics of the game, especially the animations - make the combats more 'physical', real - both the attack, but especially the defense, the ability of the player to control the defense, 'block' Blows.

 

SWTOR can again have a large audience, think of realism. Add animation when the character is in idle position. Give more life to the game.

Edited June 9, 2017 by jeronimocollares

[Toraak]

I think it's time to change the mechanics of the game, especially the animations - make the combats more 'physical', real - both the attack, but especially the defense, the ability of the player to control the defense, 'block' Blows.

 

SWTOR can again have a large audience, think of realism. Add animation when the character is in idle position. Give more life to the game.

 

I'm sorry, but no thank you. This games combat is good the way it is. Just need to get the lower DPS classes up to respectable numbers so those spec's aren't being left out of raid groups.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Plz do not do this. A bonus to having Weakening blast on the GCD, is it helps virulence snipers with Energy management. Yes it does take 3 gcd's to start getting decent damage, however this spec does pull solid DPS numbers currently and truly does not need any changes to it. Virulence is in a good place right now.

 

If you really need to change anything for this spec, reduce the cost of Takedown.

 

[This is a response to the same post you're responding to, just for the record, it's not directed at you].

 

Because that's what you want to do with OP DoT Specs, give them better burst.

 

Right idea, wrong direction.

 

They have the second highest DPS in the game, they're OP as hell, and you want to buff them?? heh

Edited June 9, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Glocko]

Not sure the focus is always additions. Reduction, removal would be a much faster and simple route. We know what we get with additions - massively OP specs......

[realleaftea]

Because that's what you want to do with OP DoT Specs, give them better burst.

 

Right idea, wrong direction.

 

They have the second highest DPS in the game, they're OP as hell, and you want to buff them?? heh

I guess it's more about the general gameflow and less about DPS ranking or burst-vs-dot issues..

 

It's kind of odd that Weakening Blast is an active skill although it doesn't really do that much on it's own. It should rather be an off-GCD enhancement (like Illegal Mods, Recklessness or Deadly Saber).

 

So I actually agree with OverLordRAMM.

 

A bonus to having Weakening blast on the GCD, is it helps virulence snipers with Energy management. Yes it does take 3 gcd's to start getting decent damage, however this spec does pull solid DPS numbers currently and truly does not need any changes to it. Virulence is in a good place right now.

 

If you really need to change anything for this spec, reduce the cost of Takedown.

To solve the DPS & energy issues shouldn't be that hard.

 

First, I'd lower the DoT duration of both Corrosive Dart and Corrosive Grenade to 18s. The additional duration isn't necessary for this spec.

 

Although you'd save a GCD every 12 GCDs if Weakening Blast would be off-GCD, you'd then have to refresh both DoTs every 12 GCDs rather than every 16 GCD, which would already eat up most of the free GCDs.

 

To compensate for the additional energy consumption, Takedown should be free of cost if it's used after the Lethal Takedown trigger. If that isn't enough, Lethal Injectors could lowers the cost of Corrosive Dart by 5~10 energy instead. Furthermore, Target Demolition could reduce the energy cost of Cull as well and Lethal Purpose could lower the CD of Adrenaline Probe by 30s instead. But most preferrably, I'd love to see the chance that DoTs deal damage twice be increased to 20~25%... which would result in more criticals and therefore more energy.

 

If the resulting DPS would be too high, change the passives that provide a +5% damage bonus to Cull, Lethal Shot, etc. into a +5% crit. chance bonus. This would fit the theme that DoT crit. chance was increased by 5% as well.

 

Because currently, one of the 'biggest' issues of Virulence is that Lethal Shot - your bread & butter filler skill - deals too much damage for other skills to be competable. It deals ~11k damage on average, just like Takedown. So why would a player even care about the latter? But if Takedown would be free of cost, it would be a useful tool for a good energy management.

 

And the same is true for Series of Shots (currently ~18k damage over 2 GCDs). Not enough damage to compete with Lethal Shot, but at least more energy efficient.

Edited June 9, 2017 by realleaftea

[KittyKat_Karrot]

I occasionally play my Sith Inq and one of the things that really annoys me is the ability Force Storm. I would absolutely LOVE to see the channel time extended considerably. I hate how short it is. I mean for me right now 2.85 is short. Wasn't it longer at one point? I would love to see this extended to 5 seconds or a bit more. Obviously know they won't consider it but I just want to put it as I want it bad -_-. Just my $0.02

 

While we are on the subject why not think about extending force lightning. I don't quite understand why these have to be so short when there is no cooldowns (force lightning has no cooldown if you are Madness specced) or any consequences for using them for extended periods.

 

Because then you could pop recklessness and have its crit chance buff applied to the whole however-long-you-think the-channel-should-take-long ability. Shorter times on Storm and FL prevent this abuse, and discourages laziness. You shouldn't be able to force storm for 18 seconds, with each charge of recklessness lasting a whopping 6 seconds.

Edited June 9, 2017 by KittyKat_Karrot

[Aeneas_Falco]

It looks like some people while writing how classes should be corrected forget there is something called PVE in SWTOR.

 

Wandering mend being removed would break Sages in Ops, at least for HM and above. Its often needed for when you have lots of large raid-wide damage going out.

[MandFlurry]

Wandering mend being removed would break Sages in Ops, at least for HM and above. Its often needed for when you have lots of large raid-wide damage going out.

 

That is why i wiah the Devs would look into my Class Streamlining proposal of not evever Nerfing things, unless a said ability is doinf 4 thousand damage on top of a 10,ooo dmg skill. That would be different for lower end PvE and PvP ability. Otherwise if we just "Streamlined all abilities" to counter-act some4 skills we may have, ans us have the same counter-active abilities or/ an raise our most powerful skills to match those other Class skills to able to to be productive in both PvE and PvP, and also we cannot forgot Flashpoints, Uprisings and Ops to be able for all Classes to have some competive'ness in all gamiing arena's.