Discussion Topic: Class Changes This Summer

[EzioMessi]

Here we go again.... back to a player issue..... You can roll most all of the HM ops in 224 gear. We were all doing it when 5.0 dropped......smh..... The rest is more of you repeating yourself.....

 

Amazing

 

The extents of mental gymnastics you'll go to to make a systemic issue seem like an L2P issue is astounding.

 

"The rest is more of you repeating yourself", you literally haven't raised any new point either, all you've been saying is "L2P" even where that isn't the case. You even ignore the actual points on how even if you do the HM Ops, a day or two is literally impossible without winning every roll, but sure, it's an L2P issue. L2Roll I guess.

 

For whatever it's worth, I absolutely agree on your other point that PvP class changes shouldn't be allowed to negatively impact PvE (and vice versa) but Jesus **** learn to concede a point sometimes when all you've been saying is "L2P by doing why you already do and don't complain!"

[DarthEnrique]

Then why would you call for a nerf to Operative defense? You should understand what it's like being squishy (and for the record sages/sorcs are far more difficult to shut down than Operatives). It's their mobility in combination with the ability to control a target that allow Operatives to survive in the face of their mediocre defensive abilities. Just because you don't know how to properly counter an Operative doesn't mean they need a nerf.

 

I don't got time to argue with someone who picks one part of my sentence and tells me not to believe my eye and is singling me out when I'm not the only one pointing out that operatives need nerfed.

[Thaladan]

time for a second change class thread pls : pyro PT will be very apreciated. Edited June 13, 2017 by Thaladan

[Lahandra]

So lastly quit crying

 

Agreed.....

[Lahandra]

Amazing

 

The extents of mental gymnastics you'll go to to make a systemic issue seem like an L2P issue is astounding.

 

"The rest is more of you repeating yourself", you literally haven't raised any new point either, all you've been saying is "L2P" even where that isn't the case. You even ignore the actual points on how even if you do the HM Ops, a day or two is literally impossible without winning every roll, but sure, it's an L2P issue. L2Roll I guess.

 

For whatever it's worth, I absolutely agree on your other point that PvP class changes shouldn't be allowed to negatively impact PvE (and vice versa) but Jesus **** learn to concede a point sometimes when all you've been saying is "L2P by doing why you already do and don't complain!"

 

No actually, I was just countering your claim about HM op's, which again, we were clearing in 224 gear the moment 5.0 dropped..... That was the "new point", or counterpoint rather, to your claim that you had to gear up first. Please do keep up. If you can't at the very least make EV/KP runs in 224 gear, then yeah, sorry to say, it's an L2P issue.

[mike_carton]

Again.... A whole lot of complaining about something that can be accomplished in simply a day or two of HM op's....

 

Even allowing for exaggeration and hyperbole, the reality is a bit more difficult. I have a character in all 248s matching up to the Optimized Stats Simulation recommended stats. I did that in an active guild that did 3 or more raids a week. Given a regular life with work, family and so on, it still took me months to get 242s, get UCs and upgrade them. I was also lucky in getting some pieces from the crates; otherwise I'd still have 230s.

[EzioMessi]

No actually, I was just countering your claim about HM op's, which again, we were clearing in 224 gear the moment 5.0 dropped..... That was the "new point", or counterpoint rather, to your claim that you had to gear up first. Please do keep up. If you can't at the very least make EV/KP runs in 224 gear, then yeah, sorry to say, it's an L2P issue.

 

Again, it doesn't particularly matter whether or not I need to "L2P" here. I've done EV/KP HM runs in 224/236 mixes just fine and I'll freely admit I am not good enough at PvE to do much better than that without a gear upgrade (I only parse 7.5k with my 236 gear right now, if that's any indication) but that's still besides the point. The PvPers either need to spend time L2Ping or gearing up. Either way it'll take more time than "one or two days".

 

And as you can clearly see from the other poster who did 3 raids aweek, unless you literally run EVERY HM in the game, and win most of the rolls, you're likely still gonna spend a month or two gearing up.

 

The complaint is coming from the fact that we had a system where we didn't need to become hardcore players of an entirely different gamemode to be competitive in ours, and it got replaced with this nonsense. The hypocrisy is astounding. You complain about PvP balance affecting PvE balancing, but if we complain about PvE gearing affecting ours, we're "whining" or "crying".

[Lahandra]

Even allowing for exaggeration and hyperbole, the reality is a bit more difficult. I have a character in all 248s matching up to the Optimized Stats Simulation recommended stats. I did that in an active guild that did 3 or more raids a week. Given a regular life with work, family and so on, it still took me months to get 242s, get UCs and upgrade them. I was also lucky in getting some pieces from the crates; otherwise I'd still have 230s.

 

Sorry to again counter, but no hyperbole or exaggeration is required for the simple math of it.....3 Raids a week?? Just one of my guilds does 3 HM raids in a single night, sometimes 4.... Between swapping out on alts and such, we can have anyone fully geared in a night of running with 242's. That's one person, full 242's.... In fact, just did it with a tank the other night. Could do the full group in 8 nights..... That's 4 weeks running two nights a week..... Don't know what to tell ya. I mean if you really wanna go the easy route, you could probably pitch some money at any given HM guild and they would carry you through and gear you in a single night.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Lahandra

[Lahandra]

And as you can clearly see from the other poster who did 3 raids aweek, unless you literally run EVERY HM in the game, and win most of the rolls, you're likely still gonna spend a month or two gearing up.

 

And as you can see, I gave a simple solution to that as well. Find a HM guild that will gear you in a single night..... Find other like minded PVP'ers that need to do the same...... Again, it just sounds like more excuses for a simple system. I don't like the new system that much either, but it's certainly not a difficult one to gear up in ( at least to 242's ), and we don't have any big changes coming anytime soon. Also, if it's a L2P issue, then that explains why the gear differences matter so much to you, and the reality of that is, no gear tier is going to help you play THAT much better. It's not a HUGE dramatic difference between 236's and 242's in a parse..... Same with the jump from 242's to 248's. You're talking a few hundred DPS. In full 236's, properly augmented of course, you should be parsing over 8.5k easy assuming you're playing the Sentinel listed in your tag. Both Watchmen/Anni and Combat/Carnage pull that without issue. So the TLDR of all of this bickering basically boils down to...... "suck it up buttercup"

Edited June 14, 2017 by Lahandra

[Mobiousren]

Is this a joke? Tell me it is.

 

Telek isn't on this first list.

Telek isn't on priority of class balancing.

 

ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME?

 

"Let's FINALLY balance Sage and Sorc. But hey, let's do it to the 2 best specs first instead of working first on the worst ones."

 

That's simply unbelievable.

[Jagaimee]

Could we have Storm/Jet Charge back for all specs of vanguard and powertech, not just the tank disciplines? It gets really tedious slow-running up to the enemy with no gap closer until level 59. (Harpoon gun...doesn't really count. You can use it once every--what, 45 seconds? And it only works on one enemy? Ouch.)

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Again, it doesn't particularly matter whether or not I need to "L2P" here. I've done EV/KP HM runs in 224/236 mixes just fine and I'll freely admit I am not good enough at PvE to do much better than that without a gear upgrade (I only parse 7.5k with my 236 gear right now, if that's any indication) but that's still besides the point. The PvPers either need to spend time L2Ping or gearing up. Either way it'll take more time than "one or two days".

 

 

This is just a general point and I am making as both a Progression Raider and avid PVPer.

 

There isn't one single person, who has every played this game, who originally didn't have L2P issues. Not one.

 

There isn't one raider that never struggled doing a SM Operation, a HM or a NiM Operation.

 

There isn't one PVPer who didn't absolutely suck at PVP at some point, and didn't get his *** handed to him repeatedly, frequently, and shamefully.

 

There isn't one player who was never totally clueless about their class rotation or sucked at it for a time.

 

There isn't one player who never made an *** himself and didn't do so on multiple occassions while doing group content.

 

Lastly, there isn't one player was never a shyter, a 'non-entity', or who didn't need to 'git gud'. [Just for the record, I universally hate, and would love to hit repeatedly anyone and everyone who uses these utterly stupid and nerd-like insults. And I'm great at this game.].

 

We all need to L2P and we never stop needing to, because we will never be good or interested in every aspect of the game. Yeah, I can tear the roof off with my carnage marauder, I can do NiM Raids, rip some good *** in PVP, but I couldn't possibly be more clueless about or suck more at crafting, strongholds, conquest, GSF, Healers, Tanks, any crew skill other than Slicing, or any other skill for that matter that doesn't let me hurt people better or does not pertain to physical combat in some fashion.

 

It doesn't matter how good you are, there are things you suck at.

 

I am Grim!

 

P.S.

 

V

I

D

E

O

Game

Edited June 14, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Lahandra]

This is just a general point and I am making as both a Progression Raider and avid PVPer.

 

There isn't one single person, who has every played this game, who originally didn't have L2P issues. Not one...........

 

This all goes without saying..... BUT (big but).......There are MANY a player that never bother to learn rotations, mechanics, and simple class structure no matter how long they play the game, and in turn, end up blaming gearing systems, content difficulty, and the all too famous "Hax", rather than actually learning the game......

[slukslaksla]

Is this a joke? Tell me it is.

 

Telek isn't on this first list.

Telek isn't on priority of class balancing.

 

ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME?

 

"Let's FINALLY balance Sage and Sorc. But hey, let's do it to the 2 best specs first instead of working first on the worst ones."

 

That's simply unbelievable.

 

i do not asume to know how bioware thinks but maybe they taking the "easiest" specs first? the ones that needs the least work on them, then they take the harder ones later so that next update we will at least have something while waiting for telek and ligh... idk just a thought.

[Toraak]

When can we expect to see the next group of changes to one of the claases?

[Thaladan]

yes another discipline please, the pyrotech...i need some good things ..even if it will be only damage increase.

[fifteendollers]

In case noone bothered to actually read the OP, Eric is only talking about DISCUSSING CLASS CHANGES, NOT FIXING CLASSES.

 

None of these changes DISCUSSED IN THESE THREADS will happen until 5.3.