Discussion Topic: Class Changes This Summer

[Zolxtren]

I don't see how Keith's post would be ammunition against more people complaining that lightning/tele isn't one of their main priorities. Nothing he said changes anything. The fact that the flood of people having to point out this oversight caught them by surprise should be incredibly worrisome.

 

for me and for allot of players it shows how much they don't know how broken some classes truly are in the game.

its not suprising tough devs never realy carred about Lighting since release. allways just madness this and madness that..... bleh

[DarthEnrique]

Hey all,

 

I told Musco I would wait until tomorrow to post anything, but, but, but, I simply couldn't do it. I've seen so many posts about Sage/Sorc TK/Lightning, I had to jump in.

 

The list is ONLY the start and the ones listed may be included in Patch 5.3, but we might move some changes out to Patch 5.4 and include other Disciplines not yet mentioned. For example, notice that Operative/Scoundrel healing isn't on this list, yet. Hmmmppffft. They should be in the list, as I want to see my healers indestructible and completely outperforming all other healing classes! Alas, I know we won't do that, but I'd love it, even for a month!!!

 

Keith---

No offense Keith but it's offensive that you guys left lighting/TK out completely when this has been on ongoing problem since 3.0 and makes it feel like we are once again being ignored as previous balances have left lightning/TK off, it's the fact lightning/TK are not getting any top priority that's insulting when it's been a complaint for quite some time now and as my preferred discipline I am not thrilled it is not being made a top priority to fix the DPS output of this discipline so it's pretty hurtful and disloyal and offensive to those of us who want to use this discipline in OPS and PVP and be able to pull our weight in both.

[BenKatarn]

Hey all,

 

I told Musco I would wait until tomorrow to post anything, but, but, but, I simply couldn't do it. I've seen so many posts about Sage/Sorc TK/Lightning, I had to jump in.

 

The list is ONLY the start and the ones listed may be included in Patch 5.3, but we might move some changes out to Patch 5.4 and include other Disciplines not yet mentioned. For example, notice that Operative/Scoundrel healing isn't on this list, yet. Hmmmppffft. They should be in the list, as I want to see my healers indestructible and completely outperforming all other healing classes! Alas, I know we won't do that, but I'd love it, even for a month!!!

 

Keith---

 

As was already mentioned by a lot of people in this thread, Telekinetics / Lightning was nerfed into oblivion with 3.0 and has been at the bottom of the DPS list since, with a gap of about 15%. It really is time that this spec gets some major buffs. I'm not asking for them to be the supreme champions of the DPS food chain again like they were in the 2.0 days, but get them somewhere decent, please. This spec has been ignored for a long time and is in desperate need of some attention, and no, taking even more abilities from the Assassin / Shadow and giving them to the Sorcerer / Sage is NOT helping. We need more DAMAGE, not more utility.

Edited June 8, 2017 by BenKatarn

[QuiveringPotato]

Hey folks,

 

As Keith mentioned in the roadmap, we want to start the process of having weekly discussion threads here on the forums. Let's get this started with our first topic, Class changes starting with Game Update 5.3. Let us know what you think of the list! Are these the Disciplines you expected to see? Are any missing and if so which ones and why?

 

The following is each Class/Discipline we are currently looking into changing. By Friday, we will begin posting in-depth threads on exactly what is happening to each Discipline. This will include whether they are being buffed or nerfed and why, along with the specific planned changes. These threads will get posted over a few weeks. Here is the current summer list:

• Sorc and Sage
  
  • Madness/Balance
    
  • Corruption/Seer
    

  [*]PT and Vanguard

  • Pyrotech/Plasmatech
    

  [*]Assassin and Shadow

  • Hatred/Serenity
    

  [*]Sniper and Gunslinger

  • Virulence/Dirty Fighting
    
  • Engineering/Saboteur
    

  [*]Merc and Commando

  • Innovative Ordnance/Assault Specialist
    
  • Arsenal/Gunnery
    

 

You will obviously have a number of questions, but here’s a few that may be on your mind:

 

Why are these Disciplines being looked at for changes?

Between data and player feedback, these are the Disciplines that appear to be most in need of change. Whether that is that they are too good, or not good enough, these Disciplines need attention first.

 

What about the missing Classes/Disciplines?

If a Class or Discipline is missing from this list it doesn't mean they won't be receiving changes at all, it is just that they are not receiving changes in the near future. In most cases this means that those Classes and/or Disciplines are in an ok place. It doesn't mean they don't need changes (both buff and nerf) but that other Disciplines need them sooner.

 

When will we receive a detailed breakdown of the changes?

I will be working with the team on getting the exact changes out to you as soon as they are ready. Based on what I know today, we will start posting those threads (which will be posted by Discipline) this week and throughout June.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

 

Tfw they remove operatives from the list :^)

[DarthEnrique]

Of course madness is on the list and not lightning. What do you guys expect? I mean, I only see madness sorcerers in PvP and bioware always listens to the PvP community. That's why they are going to buff madness and leave lightning the way it is.

 

Do you not pay attention to what is said? The reason for the fact that lightning Sorcerers are RARE (there are a few of us that do pvp with them) in warzone is because their DPS output sucks and it's been ignored that this has happened since 3.0. It's upsetting because lot of people want to play that discipline but can't because the DPS output sucks in both OPS and PVP so why play a discipline with sucky DPS output and not be able to do OPS and PVP when you can just be a discipline that will work in both?

 

Add-on: Another reason this is an upset is because there's been class balances since then and Lightning/TK have not made this list so for it to not be a top priority is insulting.

 

Second Add-on: Madness/Balance also have more healing abilities then Lightning/TK with Affliction/Weaken Mind, Force Leech/Force Serenity, Force Barrier, Force Armor/Static Barrier, Unnatural Preservation/Force Mend, Resurgence/Rejuvenate and Dark Heal/Benevolence. Lightning/TK's Affliction/Weaken Mind does not heal them and they do not have an equivalent of Force Leech/Force Serenity, some discipline balance...

Edited June 8, 2017 by DarthEnrique

[DarthEnrique]

as was already mentioned by a lot of people in this thread, telekinetics / lightning was nerfed into oblivion with 3.0 and has been at the bottom of the dps list since, with a gap of about 15%. It really is time that this spec gets some major buffs. I'm not asking for them to be the supreme champions of the dps food chain again like they were in the 2.0 days, but get them somewhere decent, please. This spec has been ignored for a long time and is in desperate need of some attention, and no, taking even more abilities from the assassin / shadow and giving them to the sorcerer / sage is not helping. We need more damage, not more utility.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ so this!

[Assasin-King]

In my opinion: (I played all classes only at PvP so i dont know how it is at PvE)

The Lightning Sorc needs changes yes but first of all you need to

remove the bug on the class!

With this bug the Lightning Sorc makes most dps in the game. And if you give them now more survive abilities then the sorc's are op again. You can see a good lightning sorc gameplay in operations at the youtube channel Kylar.

But i can explain the Bug here:

 

If you get damge while you cast chain lightning in order that you need more time to cast your Chain Lightning (It only needs e.g. series of shots from sniper) and then you activate thundering blast then you have the Bug that chain lightning is allways instand. With allways instand chain lightning you can make most dps in pvp while 3+ players stay near together.

 

The PT needs more survive abilities when you see at the Mercenery and his deffensive skills. Ever saw a PT winning a duel against Merc since 5.0?

 

Assassin Hatred needs more survive abilities too. they are such weak in pvp without a good healer behind them.

 

The Operative Bug with the instand 2 Kolto Probe's that heals 70% of the target's life instand was perfectly for the operative Heal. Concealment woud be to op with this boost because he has the god mode roll. The Operative does not really have a burst healing if you get interrupted at Kolto injection. But to be fair if you add the bug again the instand 2 Kolto Probes need more cooldown or something like that.

 

Virulance Sniper needs more options in his rota to get a good dps. now you only need 5 Skills. Corrosive Dart, Corrosive Grenade, Weakening Blast, Cull and Lethal Shot. you spam the lethal Shot while your Cull is on cooldown and your Dots are on the target. You do not really need Takedown or Series of Shots.

 

Sorry for my bad english. I'm German

Edited June 8, 2017 by Assasin-King

[wistarie]

I agree lightning sorcerers need some attention. The Sith lightning is one of the iconic SW features and the dps of this class is a joke. No more utilities only, but make this class some useful dps too.

 

And the fact that there is a bug which allows in some specific situations boost is not a argument.

Edited June 8, 2017 by wistarie

[Eli_Porter]

I'm fine with sniper getting a slight DPS nerf since it should NOT be dummy parsing like 10s higher than a marauder. Operative also parses higher, but it's melee and doesn't have the utility of a marauder so that's fine.

 

Merc nerfs should be to DCD's only, not DPS.

 

Sorc Madness buffs should put it on current Merc DPS levels (since it's the other ranged class that can swap to heals).

Edited June 8, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[Celise]

Hey all,

 

I told Musco I would wait until tomorrow to post anything, but, but, but, I simply couldn't do it. I've seen so many posts about Sage/Sorc TK/Lightning, I had to jump in.

 

The list is ONLY the start and the ones listed may be included in Patch 5.3, but we might move some changes out to Patch 5.4 and include other Disciplines not yet mentioned. For example, notice that Operative/Scoundrel healing isn't on this list, yet. Hmmmppffft. They should be in the list, as I want to see my healers indestructible and completely outperforming all other healing classes! Alas, I know we won't do that, but I'd love it, even for a month!!!

 

Keith---

 

well then pvp will remain in a horrible state until 5.4. every single class needs to be pulled apart and gone over with tweezers and then put back together plus or minus some parts. every single class change over the last number of years and only one of the trinity has escaped everytime, healers. more specifically healer specs on sorcs/sages and scoundrel/operative.

 

i read up of people having a 100% uptime on certain abilities like certain defesive skills, these exploits in those skills need to end and be completely changed so they can't be used like that.

 

with the removal of expertise from PVP it's who can get 248 gear first, anyone under that doesn't hold much chance. pvp needs to rely less on gear ratings and more on a balanced bolster.

[DarthSpuds]

Hey folks,

 

As Keith mentioned in the roadmap, we want to start the process of having weekly discussion threads here on the forums. Let's get this started with our first topic, Class changes starting with Game Update 5.3. Let us know what you think of the list! Are these the Disciplines you expected to see? Are any missing and if so which ones and why?

 

The following is each Class/Discipline we are currently looking into changing. By Friday, we will begin posting in-depth threads on exactly what is happening to each Discipline. This will include whether they are being buffed or nerfed and why, along with the specific planned changes. These threads will get posted over a few weeks. Here is the current summer list:

 

[*]Sorc and Sage

• Madness/Balance
  
• Corruption/Seer
  

 

So my Shadow Tank does MORE DPS than my TK Sage and there's no mention of sorting that out?

 

Really?

 

Epic Fail is EPIC!

 

All The Best

Edited June 8, 2017 by DarthSpuds

[DarthEnrique]

well then pvp will remain in a horrible state until 5.4. every single class needs to be pulled apart and gone over with tweezers and then put back together plus or minus some parts. every single class change over the last number of years and only one of the trinity has escaped everytime, healers. more specifically healer specs on sorcs/sages and scoundrel/operative.

 

i read up of people having a 100% uptime on certain abilities like certain defesive skills, these exploits in those skills need to end and be completely changed so they can't be used like that.

 

with the removal of expertise from PVP it's who can get 248 gear first, anyone under that doesn't hold much chance. pvp needs to rely less on gear ratings and more on a balanced bolster.

 

Oh please, healer sages/sorcs got a bad nerf last time as it cost more force to use healing abilities then it does on a scoundrel/operative, scoundrels/operatives need a massive nerf in their cooldowns though, theirs are extremely unfair to the other disciplines. All they do is backstab the living crap out of you and move around way too much for any sorc to be match for them as they have more mobility moves then sorcs do.

 

Add-on: Also any class with a gun other then the tanks should be ranged DPS only not close ranged like operatives/scoundrels, what's the point of the gun if all they are going to do is stab/punch the crap out of you? Sages/sages and pretty much any class with a gun other than the tank once should be DPS at a distance and only Shadows/Assassins Warriors/Knights should be the close range DPS.

Edited June 8, 2017 by DarthEnrique

[xDanekx]

Hello. No need to nerf seer sage, no need to nerf other classes, just buff other (worse) specs.

 

And - Let's make Telekinetic great again! Make Telekinetic Wave permanently instant (without bug^^) + more/less dmg with/without proc. Incresse dmg e.g Telekinetic Gust. More dmg reduction.

 

Perm (in standard) instant Telekinetic Wave will fix the bug with instant Telekinetic Wave .

Edited June 8, 2017 by xDanekx
typo

[Zolxtren]

So my Shadow Tank does MORE DPS than my TK Sage and there's no mention of sorting that out?

 

Really?

 

Epic Fail is EPIC!

 

All The Best

 

its funny when i see biger numbers on my Tank jugg from abilities then on my Lighting sorc XD

i bet the only reason devs think dps sorcs dmg is fine is because they seeing dmg that came from all that AOE they doing ( aoe that is useless )

 

i dare the dev to create a max level lighting sorc and go 1v1 againts all other classes i want to see their faces when the Sorcs Entire rotation full of procs barely moves the healthbar of his target in a 1v1 while that same enemy takes down like 50% of the Sorcs HP in the opening burst with instant abilities lol.

[DarthEnrique]

In my opinion: (I played all classes only at PvP so i dont know how it is at PvE)

The Lightning Sorc needs changes yes but first of all you need to

remove the bug on the class!

With this bug the Lightning Sorc makes most dps in the game. And when you give them now more survive abilities then the sorc's are op again. You can see a good lightning sorc gameplay in operations at the youtube channel Kylar.

But i can explain the Bug here:

 

When you get damge while you cast chain lightning in order that you need more time to cast your Chain Lightning (It only needs e.g. series of shots from sniper) and then you activate thundering blast then you have the Bug that chain lightning is allways instand. With allways instand chain lightning you can make most dps in pvp while 3+ players stay near together.

[

You mean Lightning Bolt automatically lights up cause I've always cast Affliction then Thundering Blast and Chain Lightning lights up once in awhile, depending on how much damage you do, if you start with Affliction then do Thundering Blast Chain Lighting lights up, after that it depends on how much damage you do or if you do at least two or three force storms Chain Lightning will light up but other then that it doesn't. Lightning Bolt I notice lights up after you take a certain amount of damage.

[Epanema]

You mean Lightning Bolt automatically lights up cause I've always cast Affliction then Thundering Blast and Chain Lightning lights up once in awhile, depending on how much damage you do, if you start with Affliction then do Thundering Blast Chain Lighting lights up, after that it depends on how much damage you do or if you do at least two or three force storms Chain Lightning will light up but other then that it doesn't. Lightning Bolt I notice lights up after you take a certain amount of damage.

Hey I don´t think you got that right. The bug is triggered when you take damage while casting chain lightning and thundering blast after that. This bug will make your chain lightning an instacast without the proc you would normaly need for it to be instant. This bug causes lightning-sorc to do insane damage. If bw wants to fix sorc they have to fix this bug first.

[DarthEnrique]

Hey I don´t think you got that right. The bug is triggered when you take damage while casting chain lightning and thundering blast after that. This bug will make your chain lightning an instacast without the proc you would normaly need for it to be instant. This bug causes lightning-sorc to do insane damage. If bw wants to fix sorc they have to fix this bug first.

 

Well obviously I've never noticed the bug.

[Epanema]

Ah ok, understandable. It´s kinda hard to trigger this bug by accident.

[Assasin-King]

Bioware needs to fix that bug because it is a huge problem in pvp

[Forren-Midosea]

Hey all,

 

I told Musco I would wait until tomorrow to post anything, but, but, but, I simply couldn't do it. I've seen so many posts about Sage/Sorc TK/Lightning, I had to jump in.

 

The list is ONLY the start and the ones listed may be included in Patch 5.3, but we might move some changes out to Patch 5.4 and include other Disciplines not yet mentioned. For example, notice that Operative/Scoundrel healing isn't on this list, yet. Hmmmppffft. They should be in the list, as I want to see my healers indestructible and completely outperforming all other healing classes! Alas, I know we won't do that, but I'd love it, even for a month!!!

 

Keith---

will you globally nerf healing? because atm one healer on 8 man wz can seriously turn the tide of such fight. people were. are and will say that healing is to easy and to powerfull in this game.

[havikoro]

Thanks for being interested in the class balance

Here is my point of view of pvp player

Both dps specs of powertech need to be buffed (and maybe tank), defensives aren't good enough for pvp, giving this spec utilities from mercs would be good (kolto unitl 70%, regen on shield)

 

Also you absolutely need to update juggernaut enraged defense, so you buff it (like in the past) to allow it to regen full life, and then you nerf dps from tank juggernaut

To be honest you need to nerf dps from all tank specs and to buff their defensives/resistance, at least for pvp

Then we can get back real tanks like the past

[Assasin-King]

will you globally nerf healing? because atm one healer on 8 man wz can seriously turn the tide of such fight. people were. are and will say that healing is to easy and to powerfull in this game.

 

one tank on 8 man wz can also seriously turn the tide of such fight. when the enemy team fokus the good players in order they cant make any damage because they are all the time dead and with tank they live longer and can make their good dmg and then the enemy team dies so please nerf tanks Guard is too op

 

*irony off*

 

really?

[JattaGin]

will you globally nerf healing? because atm one healer on 8 man wz can seriously turn the tide of such fight. people were. are and will say that healing is to easy and to powerfull in this game.

 

Healing shall not be nerfed, because healing in PvE (e. g. OPs) is definitely not too easy and too powerful in this game. If 8 opponents in a PvP wz cannot handle one healer, that's not the healer's fault.

[KumbayaGOD]

i suggest if nerfing or buffing but not making the new imbalance otherwise its just another new meta with new imbalances again

 

so if bioware want to buff or nerf for some classes make it not too crazy and make some classes too OP or too weak again

or keep current state but buff the weak classes in par with stronger classes either in damage or in defensive

 

and make tank in dps gear not so OP , thanks keith

[tummiswtor]

Sage/Sorcerer

Telekinetic/Lighting

Buff dps single player attacks (like Telekinetic Burst, Telekinetic Gust or Turbulence)

 

From my observation

Guardian on PvP got more than 5 mln damage, he's mostly single-player dps

Sage Telekinetic is mostly multiple targets buff, got 2-3 mln dmg.

Edited June 8, 2017 by tummiswtor