Discussion Topic: Class Changes This Summer

[DamzTheShadow]

i really hope BW don't nerf my merc to the ground

i really love the new survival skill

 

i remember old days omg i was so sad how much players main target merc/mandos to the ground

ea time i pvp they all jump on me poof dead becouse merc was insane weak in defense

 

ad least now they leave me a bit alone am very happy about that if i pop up my new shield they mostly run away

ok its a bit OP but for me i feel a bit saver and can take a break

 

or i have so 4 players hammering ad me all the time like old days

there is a weak merc all jump on him

 

so i do hope we can keep our new shield maybe a bit lower healing or so

other classes have reflect damage back to so i hope we can keep that

 

so i don't see any use why BW much remove it because what i see our energy shield is lame really lame compare to other classes that have beter shields skills and damage reduction skills

 

so yea we merc need a good survival skills or we will be back like old days meat bag targets

so i hope BW find a good way to balance things out

 

sorry for my English

 

Yeh totally agree with that, it was ridiculous before, merc/mando were like paper in pvp. But tbh i think ONLY thing that need nerf on them is trauma regulators, they are like 2nd life now xD the damage is pretty good but not the best as u said so i hipe they wont nerf damage at all.

[WilliamBeckket]

unless you are going to overhaul the moves to balance them out properly, no real point in changing anything. However before changes are set in motion have a beta test server where people can see what the changes are before hand without story mode or new ops. If you change 5 disciplines have them accessible with the changes so people know what the changes are and can say yeah or no. Think proc, instead of pressing to activate a move or button, have a proc to activate, barrier static should be usable when targeting enemy or not. Force barrier useless if it doesn't heal you.

 

Before you merge servers, think what is going to happen when you do. When are the dead zones and which servers are activate at those times. Oh and Command rank passes weekly access or daily access to command we ops fps. Have subscriptions have better benefits. 12.5 Xperia bonus is or was too much but 2.5 - 5 bonus exp that can turn on and off and other things have command rank pass no the same as subbing, just have full access to wiz ops fps. Be able to gtn sell them in game. Have ranked and no ranked with full level 70 moves for everyone from level 10 - 70, pvp gear with no expertise but gear to wear for only pvp fully geared levelled augmented and only gainable at Valor 50 and have rank for everything not just arenas.

[FrankTheStone]

I appreciate the Intention to increase the communication That´s a good one!

 

Changes for the mentioned classes, well let´s wait for the exact changes and then we will see if this works, or not. I´m a main PvE Player with a vengeance Juggernaut and I must say, this class has a big problem with "burst-DPS", because we have None. Every other class is able to use at least one, or more abilities (Sniper) to maximise the DPS-Output for at least 6 to 10 seconds (I don´t talk about the adrenals!) for ~ 20%.

 

As a Juggernaut it´s a pain in the *** to keep up in master mode Burn phases, with other words it is just not possible. Brontes Burn? Styrak Holophase? In comparison to a Merc, Sniper, Operative, PT or Marauder it´s not possible to Keep up, cause there is no single burst skill which a Juggernaut DPS could use..... The average maximum DPS output is just on average in comparison to all other DPS-Speccs, but we have no burst..... Both on top rDPS classes, Mercenary and Sniper have a significant burst, that makes no sense to me...... Even the Sorcerer (completely broken.....) has the abilities to produce a significant burst Phase (6-8 Seconds) with round about 12.000 DPS..... then he sucks, but he can....

 

I highly recommend to give the Juggernaut a ability which creates the possibility for REAL burst DPS.

[Threjyan]

 

Before you merge servers, think what is going to happen when you do. When are the dead zones and which servers are activate at those times. Oh and Command rank passes weekly access or daily access to command we ops fps. Have subscriptions have better benefits. 12.5 Xperia bonus is or was too much but 2.5 - 5 bonus exp that can turn on and off and other things have command rank pass no the same as subbing, just have full access to wiz ops fps. Be able to gtn sell them in game. Have ranked and no ranked with full level 70 moves for everyone from level 10 - 70, pvp gear with no expertise but gear to wear for only pvp fully geared levelled augmented and only gainable at Valor 50 and have rank for everything not just arenas.

 

"class changes this summer" - you totally nailed it

[Alec_Fortescue]

Disappointed about vanguard thing. There is much omre to do than plasma / pyro, many utilities for many ACs need changing or fixing (like Jug's broken Pooled Hatred and Reckoning). All dps specs for pt suffer from worst survivability in the game. Edited June 8, 2017 by Alec_Fortescue

[GUN_GAME]

Hey all,

 

I told Musco I would wait until tomorrow to post anything, but, but, but, I simply couldn't do it. I've seen so many posts about Sage/Sorc TK/Lightning, I had to jump in.

 

The list is ONLY the start and the ones listed may be included in Patch 5.3, but we might move some changes out to Patch 5.4 and include other Disciplines not yet mentioned. For example, notice that Operative/Scoundrel healing isn't on this list, yet. Hmmmppffft. They should be in the list, as I want to see my healers indestructible and completely outperforming all other healing classes! Alas, I know we won't do that, but I'd love it, even for a month!!!

 

Keith---

This is what i want to see xd Ye lets nerf sorc healers, and make operative healers OP and take sorc's healers overlord throne. I am with you Keith:p

[assatrap]

Keith or Musco: You cant balance classes around both PVP and PVE:

 

What you guys need to do differently here is to discern PVP from PVE stats: An example from alot of mmorpgs the way they gone to balance classes in regards to PVP and PVE:

 

in PVE: all abilities are 100% working as intented

 

In PVP:

Lower all crit damage across the board with 50%

Lower all damage across the board with 50%

Lower all guard effectiveness by 60% (overtuned)

Lower all healing effectiveness by 60% (overtuned)

Lower all reflects with 50% etc

 

ofcourse these numbers should be adjusted but just an example.

 

these changes will remove globaling because the HP will remain the same and give all classes are fair chance in PVP regardless of how broken it is (meaning they can survive longer due to large hp thus making an impact before they die even if they are complete clueless)

 

But at the same time healing and damage is nerfed. These changes will ensure that a player relys more on skills then just doing 1 single mistake and getting globaled in seconds. This also opens up for a alot more strategy and tactics since killing time is slower but at the same time healing and guard is nerfed. Also survivablity is not extremly high because healing is nerfed. This will game PVP indefinetly more interesting and fun then todays PVP which is broken where you kill players in 4-5 seconds and some players take 4-5 players for a while. The advantage to this system slight changes in classes where you nerf or buff someone a bit too much or too little will still have little impact in PVP - since the HP pool is so large a skilled/veteran player of the class still can make up for it. This also makes the devs jobs a bit easier and overall a more satisfied community where PVP players gets what they want and PVE players are not so effected by it.

 

And ofcourse, capping nodes, doors, sap capping and huttballs etc should be adjusted accordingly to the new system. Or you can apply these changes only to ranked. Etc

Edited June 8, 2017 by assatrap

[Assasin-King]

if you lower everything except for the hp is the same thing as now but with double hp and when i think about it.... that would be the worst thing that could happen. PvP is fast and based on reactions and make it not to pve and fight against a player who can stand in front of you like 2 minutes... like a merc Edited June 8, 2017 by Assasin-King

[AllisonLightning]

will you globally nerf healing? because atm one healer on 8 man wz can seriously turn the tide of such fight. people were. are and will say that healing is to easy and to powerfull in this game.

 

How about globally banning bad DPS who can't play their class and complain about indestructible healers in Operative/Scoundrels (who like Keith, I would love some OP meta and hate my lack of burst like the other healers) and Mercenary/Commando classes when our healing in PvE content is essential for progression. My luck varies in warzones between free casting and idiots who can't take me out as a sliver of health versus giant bites and the DoT spread of doom... DoT classes are the best healer killers. PvP is one giant game of rock-paper-scissors and objective warzones make it so that so many classes have value and merit.

 

Healing shall not be nerfed, because healing in PvE (e. g. OPs) is definitely not too easy and too powerful in this game. If 8 opponents in a PvP wz cannot handle one healer, that's not the healer's fault.

 

A thousand times yes.

[mmmbuddah]

Hey all,

 

I told Musco I would wait until tomorrow to post anything, but, but, but, I simply couldn't do it. I've seen so many posts about Sage/Sorc TK/Lightning, I had to jump in.

 

The list is ONLY the start and the ones listed may be included in Patch 5.3, but we might move some changes out to Patch 5.4 and include other Disciplines not yet mentioned. For example, notice that Operative/Scoundrel healing isn't on this list, yet. Hmmmppffft. They should be in the list, as I want to see my healers indestructible and completely outperforming all other healing classes! Alas, I know we won't do that, but I'd love it, even for a month!!!

 

Keith---

 

Why did I think your last name was Channing for the longest time?

[mmmbuddah]

That is a perfectly acceptable place to start IMO.

 

FIRST up on the list NEEDS to be plasmatech / pyro damage damage, utility, AND survivability, because ALL three areas are just in the pits atm. Far worse off than lightning / tele

[Jedi_riches]

Hey all,

 

I told Musco I would wait until tomorrow to post anything, but, but, but, I simply couldn't do it. I've seen so many posts about Sage/Sorc TK/Lightning, I had to jump in.

 

The list is ONLY the start and the ones listed may be included in Patch 5.3, but we might move some changes out to Patch 5.4 and include other Disciplines not yet mentioned. For example, notice that Operative/Scoundrel healing isn't on this list, yet. Hmmmppffft. They should be in the list, as I want to see my healers indestructible and completely outperforming all other healing classes! Alas, I know we won't do that, but I'd love it, even for a month!!!

 

Keith---

 

I understand that this is only the start of the class changes but given how poorly Sage/Sorc TK/Lightning is underperforming this should have been one of the first classes/disciplines on this list, any OP or UP classes should have been first up.

[trabble]

please just don't fail again and make a full dps "bandwith" over all classes.

 

look at this: http://parsely.io/parser/stats

a class 13% under zero ( madness / balance ) and other classes 6% over zero ( virulence, carnage & deception ) means that these classes differ by nearly 20%

 

please devs - bring all dps in line that their dps output and survivability is nearly the same.

[ultimarb]

please just don't fail again and make a full dps "bandwith" over all classes.

 

look at this: http://parsely.io/parser/stats

a class 13% under zero ( madness / balance ) and other classes 6% over zero ( virulence, carnage & deception ) means that these classes differ by nearly 20%

 

please devs - bring all dps in line that their dps output and survivability is nearly the same.

 

 

you can't seriously compare two specs on a 500k health dummy.... especially not a dot spec with deception and ap pt's. the dummy wont last 45 seconds and ap would have 1/3 uptime on exlposive fuel and shoulder canon...

parsing on less than a 2,5kk dummy is just stupid.

[trabble]

this is absolutely serious because its the same amount of damage output for each class. as you can see it is the balance sage that needs the most time to kill the 500k dummy.

 

but ok - compare the other dummys:

 

1.5 mio: flopclass: plasmatech -11% topclass lethaliy +6,88 - difference ~ 18%

2.5 mio: flopclass: madness sorc -7,55 topclass lethality: +8,41 - difference ~17%

4mio: flopclass: lighning sorc: - 19% (!!!) - topclass watchman +11 % - difference ~30%.

 

all I want from july class balance is to bring this "difference" more close together. I don't now whats possible - 2% ? 5% ? - but not ~~20% that is just to much.

Edited June 8, 2017 by trabble

[MuskyBoy]

Hey folks,

 

As Keith mentioned in the roadmap, we want to start the process of having weekly discussion threads here on the forums. Let's get this started with our first topic, Class changes starting with Game Update 5.3. Let us know what you think of the list! Are these the Disciplines you expected to see? Are any missing and if so which ones and why?

 

The following is each Class/Discipline we are currently looking into changing. By Friday, we will begin posting in-depth threads on exactly what is happening to each Discipline. This will include whether they are being buffed or nerfed and why, along with the specific planned changes. These threads will get posted over a few weeks. Here is the current summer list:

• Sorc and Sage
  
  • Madness/Balance
    
  • Corruption/Seer
    

  [*]PT and Vanguard

  • Pyrotech/Plasmatech
    

  [*]Assassin and Shadow

  • Hatred/Serenity
    

  [*]Sniper and Gunslinger

  • Virulence/Dirty Fighting
    
  • Engineering/Saboteur
    

  [*]Merc and Commando

  • Innovative Ordnance/Assault Specialist
    
  • Arsenal/Gunnery
    

 

You will obviously have a number of questions, but here’s a few that may be on your mind:

 

Why are these Disciplines being looked at for changes?

Between data and player feedback, these are the Disciplines that appear to be most in need of change. Whether that is that they are too good, or not good enough, these Disciplines need attention first.

 

What about the missing Classes/Disciplines?

If a Class or Discipline is missing from this list it doesn't mean they won't be receiving changes at all, it is just that they are not receiving changes in the near future. In most cases this means that those Classes and/or Disciplines are in an ok place. It doesn't mean they don't need changes (both buff and nerf) but that other Disciplines need them sooner.

 

When will we receive a detailed breakdown of the changes?

I will be working with the team on getting the exact changes out to you as soon as they are ready. Based on what I know today, we will start posting those threads (which will be posted by Discipline) this week and throughout June.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

 

Mercs - Remove energy rebounder utility (and possibly nerf trauma regulators by 3-5 stacks)

Arsenal - Have chaff flare work the same as IO and have the bodyguard spec get the 5 force/tech attack resistance

- Have the snare from blazing bolts work every second BB (this would be uninterruptable) as a 70% snare

for 3/8secs for a highly mobile class is too high.

IO - Better resource management and AOE damage also cost of off healing is too resource expensive atm

Bodyguard - Allow one rapid scan to be free and instant every 10 secs (similar to sorcs) to help with their mobility in ranked also have smoke screen as a passive to make them more competitive in ranked arenas. Also chaff flare defensive as mentioned above.

 

Snipers - A small but very irritating issue I have is why in cover can snipers not be interrupted? In entrench sure but in cover they be able to interrupted like any other ranged class.

Engineering - Plasma probe needs a nerf, Spammable 8 m AOE with a 70% slow need I say more.

Virulence - Lower the cost of takedown.

Marksman - Buff damage

 

Sorcs Dps - Buff damage of both specs and make resources on Madness better.

Corruption - A force positive ability for off dps.

 

Powertechs - Lower the CD of hydraulics back to 3.0 levels, buff kolto (significantly for dps)

AP - Make the dot tick harder and buff magnetic blast by 3-5 % so burst doesn't get out of control again (it still needs a damage buff) and make AP have better aoe (maybe shatterslug could dot spread?)

Pyro - Buff damage and have energy rebounders

Shield specialist = make Oil slick affect force/tech and or return explosive fuel to resist 35% force/tech like it used to.

 

Assassin

Hatred - better defensives, better damage

 

Juggenaut - Better mobility all specs (particularly vengeance and immortal)

Dps - Better defensives particularly in vengeance and a damage buff

Immortal - Better mitigation against force/tech (all passives pretty much increase defense which is high anyway from gear)

 

Operative

Medicine - Better burst/less channeling of bigger heals for ranked arenas/spike damage in ops

Concealment - Better damage make some adjustments to their ability to control a target.

Edited June 8, 2017 by MuskyBoy

[Darkrebellord]

any nerfing of the sith madness sorcerer ability and bye bye monthly subscription tired of the nerfing and the developers not address the real issues the bugs in the game that's existed for years.

[Nezyrworks]

Thanks for a communication on your end guys! This reminds me of the times when class representatives were present to articulate problems with their class pool.

 

I have couple of points i would like you to consider before making class changes:

 

Powertech/Vanguard

First fixes should be ammended to utilities, as they are a total mess. Most of them are worhless, and ovestreched between two many pointless disciplines (Excuse me for not using vanguard terms):

 

Utilities

 

Masterful Tier:

• Combine Pneumatic Boots with Torque Boosters from Heroic their making it still Masterful
  
• Combine Prototype Electro Surge in Enhanced Paralytics
  
• Combine Accelerated Reel into Adaptable Assailant
  

 

Heroic Tier:

As mentioned above plus:

• Introduce Energy Rebounder (from Advanced Prototype) across ALL Powertech specs by making it Heroic Tier utility.
  
• Introduce Automated Defenses across ALL Powertech specs by making it another Heroic Tier utility returning PT to 40-50% health instead of 35%.
  

 

Legendary Tier:

• Shield Cannon should improve the number of Shoulder Missiles by 3 across ALL specs. Healing factor should remain the same, but the cooldown should be reduced by 15 seconds.
  
• Pressure Overrides should be replaced by a more usefull utility not tied to a 120s cooldown. Replace it or make it more usefull by adding railshot, and fixing the searing Weave.
  
• Fuel Additives makes no sence from both PVE and PVP standpoint of view. 5% damage increase for a tank every 120s is not even woth it for PVP. While damage reduction for DPS specs is meaningless if it's tied to this one. This is even worse than shield cannon, as you cann't just hold the loeaded utility and can only use it as an innitial burst, making it completly obsolete if you are not focused/taking damage.
  
• Battering Ram should be fixed as well as Jet charge. currently you are likely to stay in the place you used your jet charge proc without leaping to the enemy.
  

 

Skills:

 

Shield Tech:

• Translocate should be instant cast, with additional % of damage reduction on translocated target. cooldown should remain the same
  

 

Pyro Powertech:

• Whith Automated Defenses moved to utilities and Energy rebounder moved from AP also there is a spot for a burst damage passive skill that would potentialy increase both sustained and burst dps.
  
• Remove Searing Wave skill delay when dealing damage across ALL specs using it (its vanguard counterpart Ion Wave is applying damage instantly while Searing Wave have at least 0.5s delay making it even harded to hit with its cone.
  
• Superheated Flamethrower stacks should be applied whren reload/recharge ability is used.
  
• *Note: Pyro is underperforming because of it's long initial rotation, which makes it unusable across PVP, aside from no real big hitters which could finish off the target. Increase its dps and burst accourdingly to the PVE parse standards made by other AOE dot classes (Laceration, Lethality, Engineering)
  

 

Advanced Prototype:

• With Energy Rebounder moved to utilities make a new passive skill which increases range on all main rotation skills except Magnetic Blast, Gut and Rocket Punch by additional 5-10 meters. this should solve AP problems with a dps loss on high mobile targets and make it a midrange spec compared to the pyro and the shield tech being melee.
  
• Energy Burn should remove the dot effect and instead add that damage to energy burst damage, making it more in pair with burst abilities such as: Heatseeker Missiles.
  

 

With Energy Rebounder, Shield Cannon and Automated Defenses PT across all specs will get enough boost to DCDs to survive the 1v1 and have the time of the DCDs reduced under focus fire, while also having "OHSNAP" ability.

[Lionflash]

buff trauma; make it stack up to 5 times

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

 

What about the missing Classes/Disciplines?

If a Class or Discipline is missing from this list it doesn't mean they won't be receiving changes at all, it is just that they are not receiving changes in the near future. In most cases this means that those Classes and/or Disciplines are in an ok place. It (both buff and nerf)...snip etc. etc.

-eric

 

This wording seems somewhat contradictory ,but unless im missing something, if a discipline is in an ok place, why would you buff it or nerf it at all?

Edited June 8, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Zolxtren]

just buff Lighting sorc Abilities dmg by 30% and watch where it goes from there and adjust other stuff acordingly.

 

but hell Lighting needs a Huge dmg buff 1st before anything.

 

when your left FREECASTING as a lighting sorc in the middle of warzone almost all match and still only able to get to middle or a bit higer then middle on the score board by the end is a bit Phatetic........ and sorc is freaken paper when it comes to taking dmg...... all this while classes that died like 5x more times then you topping dmg charts vs your all day freecasting.....

[Ottoattack]

Hey all,

 

I told Musco I would wait until tomorrow to post anything, but, but, but, I simply couldn't do it. I've seen so many posts about Sage/Sorc TK/Lightning, I had to jump in.

 

The list is ONLY the start and the ones listed may be included in Patch 5.3, but we might move some changes out to Patch 5.4 and include other Disciplines not yet mentioned. For example, notice that Operative/Scoundrel healing isn't on this list, yet. Hmmmppffft. They should be in the list, as I want to see my healers indestructible and completely outperforming all other healing classes! Alas, I know we won't do that, but I'd love it, even for a month!!!

 

Keith---

 

So, after we have to wait 8 month and some lame excuses (like someone one vacation or maternity leave, as if you guys are a mom and pop shop not a large corporation) your first post about class balance already excluded warrior/knight (all 6 disciplines). And now you are telling me class balance is going to be a few month exercise. And you want me to pay you money

 

You are supposed to do evaluate all 24 disciplines every 3-4 month. Unless of course you do not do any monitoring.

[Zolxtren]

This wording seems somewhat contradictory ,but unless im missing something, if a discipline is in an ok place, why would you buff it or nerf it at all?

 

Lighting sorc in an OK place.................. BAHAHAHAHAHA lol sory....

[casirabit]

Whatever you do can you please find a way to separate the abilities into separate area. One for pvp and one for pve. I am tired of my class or classes being nerf just because of pvp. I understand there are problems in pvp but not everyone plays pvp so making a way for them in pvp so it doesn't affect pve would be nice.

[AscendingSky]

Whatever you do can you please find a way to separate the abilities into separate area. One for pvp and one for pve. I am tired of my class or classes being nerf just because of pvp. I understand there are problems in pvp but not everyone plays pvp so making a way for them in pvp so it doesn't affect pve would be nice.

 

I definitely agree with this. I see a lot of PvP players advocating an across the board healing nerf, for example. This sounds good on paper in the context of the PvP meta, but it would make PvE-focused players lives' miserable because the bosses and trash sure aren't going to be doing less damage! We already have some abilities that function differently in PvP than in PvE. I don't see why we can't add more abilities to that list as well as adjust damage and healing output in warzones exclusively as well.