Server Merge Discussion Thread

[xordevoreaux]

Probably because those of us still playing enjoy the game enough to do so?! I imagine the same is true for those playing W0W and EQ, but I'm not sure as I've never invested a minute of time into either of those games.

 

^^^ this. I fell in love with the entire kitch of Star Wars when the first movie came out when I was 10 years old (saw it in a drive-in during an electrical storm), with tie fighters, and x-wing fighters, and light sabers, and force apparitions, some scary guy with COPD... still in love with it.

[Ashianti]

Seems as good a place as any to ask but what are players opinions on the population of the Progenitor (what I think is the old English rp server). I am looking for options for where to play characters

 

This summer, about 30-ish people on Republic Fleet at prime time...

Often need to push a button now and then in order not to get logged off for afk while waiting for warzone to pop.

Sometimes slightly better, but hardly ever more than 1 warzone active at a time.

 

If things don't pick up soon I guess I'll have to transfer just to be able to play

[Andryah]

I think some people are adding their own "spins" to define the term MMO to fit what they want, and not what MMO actually means or is.

 

Heh.. well it would not be a proper MMO gaming forum otherwise.

[Foambreaker]

sry, double post Edited August 9, 2017 by Foambreaker

[Foambreaker]

If the loss of 90cc and 150cc transfers busts EA's bottom line, the game is worse off than any of us know.

 

1. You skipped the part about EFFORT which is MAN HOURs which is a lot more than 90cc

2. EAs bottom line doesn't matter, the bottom line that matters is the SWTOR business unit

3. They are obviously only able to afford limited resources at this time, that is why we are getting a new OP one boss at a time

4. To do all this behavior policing requires paid staff. To have a behavior cop 24x7x365 takes about ~6 full time employees to staff ONE live position 24x7.

 

We can stop right there, SIX FTEs???

 

And that is ONE cop on duty at a time for ALL of US SWs? To be effective how many do we really need on duty at one time? 5? That comes out to THIRTY FTEs.

 

Forever?

 

The new engine is already cheaper than that and they still have no figured out the name issue, so far they only made a commitment not to rename.

 

Come on devs, give these people and this thread a break and own up to reality

Edited August 9, 2017 by Foambreaker

[Foambreaker]

...On the MMO point. This game never was an true MMO it was always an online RPG with MMO elements. From the beginning 80% of the game was set up for solo player content. That was one of the things that made it better than an MMO.

 

You are confusing sandbox and instanced, both however are MMOs.

[DWho]

Harbinger also has the highest variety of players that play group, pvp, solo story, solo or Rp. You really shouldn't use Harbinger as an example of people who don't understand because lots of us do because we have friends from all parts of the game. Just because you are on Harbinger doesn't mean you don't understand.

 

Even Harbinger is having fleet population issues. Where we used to have 4 instances 12 months ago at certain times of the day, now we have one or one and half. Harbinger fleet population is now 1/3 of where is was and grouped activity is suffering more than usual if you are outside the 4-5 hour bracket that still seems to have a reasonable population. If you play in that bracket you may not see any issues. But not everyone is able to play the game in that 4-5 hour bracket. That bracket is also shrinking fast. Only 6 months ago that bracket was 7 hours and 12 months ago it was 12 hours. If you go back two and half years ago it was 16-18 hours.

 

Considering the game is online 24 hours a day and is a global game, the expectation is to at least have 16 hours a day to play in (obviously not all in one chunk). When the busiest servers "healthy" time bracket is now down to 4-6 hours and shrinking, I can only imagine how bad the other servers are fairing, it doesnt bode well for the game.

 

I know a lot of the arguments that people are making here is by adding populations that don't group finder or doing much group content won't add anything to those populations that do. But the populations are getting so small now that just having 10 extra people put into the group mix at certain times can have an positive affect on group content. It doesn't matter what server you are on because there will always be a few that will do group content if given the chance and by consolidating them all in one place it can have an impact even if it is only a small one.

 

The lower the populations drop, the more urgent it is to bring everyone together. As an example, it's better to have 16 people all queued for pvp on the one server than 16 people queued over 3-4 servers.

 

OK, let do a little math. We'll use PVP as the example since it is entirely dependent on random groups (save the premades that are showing up) Now we'll us JC as the example since it is the server I am most familiar with. During prime time WZs pop every 5 minutes or so. That means 3 or 4 active warzones at a time. We'll round it up to 5 WZs so that is 80 players queuing for PVP . We'll round that up to 100 players just for a nice easy number to work with. During prime time the population on JC is at least 1600 (7 of 8 Rep advanced classes show as 100 or more so assuming 800 Rep and an equal number of Imp seems reasonable). So that means 1500 of the people on JC are not queuing for WZ. So in order to get the 100 players queueing for WZs better pops (a portion of which are casuals and don't care anyway) we are going to move 1500 other people. It would seem the most efficient process would be to move the 100 that are dependent on random pops. At most I would estimate there would be another 100 people Pugging OPs, FPs, and Uprisings. So you are still talking about something on the order of 1400 people that do not need to be on a higher population server. If there were 100 people on Harbinger that wanted to move to a less populated server, would you move 1400 other people who want to be on Harbinger to that new server?

[DWho]

You are confusing sandbox and instanced, both however are MMOs.

 

Yes but very different MMOs. Sandboxed MMOs are very dependent on high server populations, instanced ones are not. SWTOR would be classified as an Instanced MMO using your terms.

[masterceil]

OK, let do a little math. We'll use PVP as the example since it is entirely dependent on random groups (save the premades that are showing up) Now we'll us JC as the example since it is the server I am most familiar with. During prime time WZs pop every 5 minutes or so. That means 3 or 4 active warzones at a time. We'll round it up to 5 WZs so that is 80 players queuing for PVP . We'll round that up to 100 players just for a nice easy number to work with. During prime time the population on JC is at least 1600 (7 of 8 Rep advanced classes show as 100 or more so assuming 800 Rep and an equal number of Imp seems reasonable). So that means 1500 of the people on JC are not queuing for WZ. So in order to get the 100 players queueing for WZs better pops (a portion of which are casuals and don't care anyway) we are going to move 1500 other people. It would seem the most efficient process would be to move the 100 that are dependent on random pops. At most I would estimate there would be another 100 people Pugging OPs, FPs, and Uprisings. So you are still talking about something on the order of 1400 people that do not need to be on a higher population server. If there were 100 people on Harbinger that wanted to move to a less populated server, would you move 1400 other people who want to be on Harbinger to that new server?

 

That is some of the worst "napkin math" I've ever seen on the SWTOR forums. Quite an achievement.

[DWho]

That is some of the worst "napkin math" I've ever seen on the SWTOR forums. Quite an achievement.

 

Please explain the flaws in the assumptions then. There are 2 numbers used in the calculation

 

1) How many people do you think are queueing for WZs on JC and what evidence do you have for that

 

2) How many people are on JC during prime time and what evidence do you have for that?

 

Edit: at 4:41 ET (well outside prime time that starts at about 7 ET) there were 474 Pub players assuming an equal number of Imps that would be at least 948 and there was only 1 active WZ. (roughly 1200 on Harbinger at the same time)

Edited August 9, 2017 by DWho

[masterceil]

Please explain the flaws in the assumptions then. There are 2 numbers used in the calculation

 

1) How many people do you think are queueing for WZs on JC and what evidence do you have for that

 

2) How many people are on JC during prime time and what evidence do you have for that?

 

Edit: at 4:41 ET (well outside prime time that starts at about 7 ET) there were 474 Pub players assuming an equal number of Imps that would be at least 948 and there was only 1 active WZ. (roughly 1200 on Harbinger at the same time)

 

*clears throat*

 

OK, let do a little math. We'll use PVP as the example since it is entirely dependent on random groups (save the premades that are showing up)

Premades do indeed show up, and automatically dismissing them is the first mistake.

Now we'll us JC as the example since it is the server I am most familiar with. During prime time WZs pop every 5 minutes or so. That means 3 or 4 active warzones at a time.

1. How do you, as a single observer, know warzones are popping "every 5 minutes or so"? If you're going into the warzone, you don't know what's popping while you're in there - if you cancel your pop, you don't know if the subsequent pop is to fill a spot or is a different warzone.
   
2. How big a variance is "or so"? The difference between legitimate warzone pops every three minutes and every seven minutes is very significant. Also, is this the fastest they pop, or an average over time? How much time?
   
3. Warzones can last anywhere from 3 minutes to 15. Two of the pops could just be arenas, but at most they're probably 15 minutes (NC can technically go on forever, but it's pretty rare for mid to go uncapped that long). But whatever, call a five-minute delay 3 or 4 active at a time, sure.

We'll round it up to 5 WZs

No. You do not round "3 or 4" up to 5. That's a 25-66% increase from your own stated assumption, and does insane things to the math further down the road. Biggest mistake so far.

so that is 80 players queuing for PVP .

Again discounting 4v4 arenas. Using the original numbers of "3 or 4", this is anywhere between 24 and 64 players. Again, a significant difference from the 80 you pulled out of your arse along with the "round up to 5" bit.

We'll round that up to 100 players

This is a 25% increase from your original number that was flawed af to begin with!!! Do you legitimately just not know what "rounding" means? And don't be lazy, do the math. Google has a calculator if you can't work with numbers that don't end with two zeroes.

just for a nice easy number to work with. During prime time the population on JC is at least 1600 (7 of 8 Rep advanced classes show as 100 or more so assuming 800 Rep and an equal number of Imp seems reasonable).

As any player on about any server will tell you, that is absolutely not reasonable! Most servers have far more imps than pubs. I understand JC to be the reverse of this, but they're still not equal. Also, are you talking about just 70s, 10-70 (warzonable), or everything on the server? If your math is based on 70s pops, only the 70s matter.

So that means 1500 of the people on JC are not queuing for WZ.

1536

So in order to get the 100 players queueing for WZs better pops (a portion of which are casuals and don't care anyway) we are going to move 1500 other people.

64 And again, the question of whether you're talking about everyone on the server or not comes into play. And people levelling lowbies that aren't yet 70, but will be - I'm currently working on a new character having tons of fun in midbies, and will probably be pretty active in 70s once I finally get there.

 

Also, we're talking about a merge - not a move. If BW did a solid, proper merging of the servers, the only thing the players would notice - including the 1536 not queuing for (70s?) warzones - is more people on the server. Most of the discussion on whether or not BW should merge is counting on them getting Strongholds, Guilds, and other sht to be handled seamlessly. So more Harb trolls on fleet should be all players from, say, Bastion would notice.

It would seem the most efficient process would be to move the 100 that are dependent on random pops.

What about people that may get into the random pops? What about the friends and swtor family of the 64* people queuing for (70s?) warzones? One of my guild officers practically lives in warzones - I wouldn't want her to have to choose between her beloved guild and being shunted off to another server to collate all the PvPers or whatever.

At most I would estimate there would be another 100 people Pugging OPs, FPs, and Uprisings.

And where in the blue fk did you pull that number from?! "Hurr durrr, i liek hunnerts"?!?

So you are still talking about something on the order of 1400 people that do not need to be on a higher population server. If there were 100 people on Harbinger that wanted to move to a less populated server, would you move 1400 other people who want to be on Harbinger to that new server?

Merges, not moves.

 

But seriously, if you're going to do math, do it the fk right. Don't give Data Analysts everywhere migraines with your senseless, inane bs.

[Foambreaker]

Yes but very different MMOs. Sandboxed MMOs are very dependent on high server populations, instanced ones are not. SWTOR would be classified as an Instanced MMO using your terms.

 

Actually it is the instances that require population; you have it reversed.

 

In a sandbox there are no numbers needed to do anything except PvP, you need 2 players to do that. There is no Q waiting for 8 or 16 players to be ready.

[FerkWork]

That is some of the worst "napkin math" I've ever seen on the SWTOR forums. Quite an achievement.

 

Not to mention blatant lying. Normal wait times are about 10 minutes at the fastest and average about 15 minutes on JC. Ranked is dead. MM FPs barely pop even as a tank. MM Uprisings don't either. MM raiding is two guilds and some spare people. Fleet pugs are active only during a very narrow part of prime time. Only people who want the status quo are solo players who want to be king of a dead castle. There is no need for both SL and JC at this point. Or just move JC into Harb so we can have an active server again.

 

 

Until then JC is a wasteland.

Edited August 9, 2017 by FerkWork

[DWho]

*clears throat*

 

 

Premades do indeed show up, and automatically dismissing them is the first mistake.

 

1. How do you, as a single observer, know warzones are popping "every 5 minutes or so"? If you're going into the warzone, you don't know what's popping while you're in there - if you cancel your pop, you don't know if the subsequent pop is to fill a spot or is a different warzone.
   
2. How big a variance is "or so"? The difference between legitimate warzone pops every three minutes and every seven minutes is very significant. Also, is this the fastest they pop, or an average over time? How much time?
   
3. Warzones can last anywhere from 3 minutes to 15. Two of the pops could just be arenas, but at most they're probably 15 minutes (NC can technically go on forever, but it's pretty rare for mid to go uncapped that long). But whatever, call a five-minute delay 3 or 4 active at a time, sure.

 

No. You do not round "3 or 4" up to 5. That's a 25-66% increase from your own stated assumption, and does insane things to the math further down the road. Biggest mistake so far.

 

Again discounting 4v4 arenas. Using the original numbers of "3 or 4", this is anywhere between 24 and 64 players. Again, a significant difference from the 80 you pulled out of your arse along with the "round up to 5" bit.

 

This is a 25% increase from your original number that was flawed af to begin with!!! Do you legitimately just not know what "rounding" means? And don't be lazy, do the math. Google has a calculator if you can't work with numbers that don't end with two zeroes.

 

As any player on about any server will tell you, that is absolutely not reasonable! Most servers have far more imps than pubs. I understand JC to be the reverse of this, but they're still not equal. Also, are you talking about just 70s, 10-70 (warzonable), or everything on the server? If your math is based on 70s pops, only the 70s matter.

 

1536

 

64 And again, the question of whether you're talking about everyone on the server or not comes into play. And people levelling lowbies that aren't yet 70, but will be - I'm currently working on a new character having tons of fun in midbies, and will probably be pretty active in 70s once I finally get there.

 

Also, we're talking about a merge - not a move. If BW did a solid, proper merging of the servers, the only thing the players would notice - including the 1536 not queuing for (70s?) warzones - is more people on the server. Most of the discussion on whether or not BW should merge is counting on them getting Strongholds, Guilds, and other sht to be handled seamlessly. So more Harb trolls on fleet should be all players from, say, Bastion would notice.

 

What about people that may get into the random pops? What about the friends and swtor family of the 64* people queuing for (70s?) warzones? One of my guild officers practically lives in warzones - I wouldn't want her to have to choose between her beloved guild and being shunted off to another server to collate all the PvPers or whatever.

 

And where in the blue fk did you pull that number from?! "Hurr durrr, i liek hunnerts"?!?

 

Merges, not moves.

 

But seriously, if you're going to do math, do it the fk right. Don't give Data Analysts everywhere migraines with your senseless, inane bs.

 

Well

 

It was not meant to be an exhaustive analysis of PVP and server populations. The point was that the people who "need" higher populations are a very small fraction of the overall population. The estimates made were designed to inflate the numbers of that group to cover various contingencies. Even if a merge is done right, what I will see as a story player is a massive increase in competition for open world objectives, which is by far the majority of them, making the game more frustrating to play (I was around when starter planet populations were around 150 and it took you a whole evening to complete 3 or 4 missions which might net you 1 level because you were constantly waiting for respawns.). I will also have to deal with more toxic chat and so much activity in chat that I can't read what is said before it scrolls up out of the window. All this for a very small fraction of the population that could easily move themselves to a more populated server but refuse to do so and would rather force everyone else in the game to move so they can have things the way they want. And before someone says "Aren't you inconveniencing people by wanting to stay put", the answer is no. My staying on the server I am on does not in any way prevent you from moving to a server more suitable to your playstyle whereas forcibly merging me with a server that suits your playstyle negatively impacts me. If I wanted to be on a high population server, I would move there. JC is the right population for my playstyle. If you want to merge the PVP servers to Shadowland to boost its population or merge them all into one server then do so but leave the mid population servers alone. There is absolutely no need to merge all of the east coast servers into 1 server.

[DWho]

Not to mention blatant lying. Normal wait times are about 10 minutes at the fastest and average about 15 minutes on JC. Ranked is dead. MM FPs barely pop even as a tank. MM Uprisings don't either. MM raiding is two guilds and some spare people. Fleet pugs are active only during a very narrow part of prime time. Only people who want the status quo are solo players who want to be king of a dead castle. There is no need for both SL and JC at this point. Or just move JC into Harb so we can have an active server again.

 

 

Until then JC is a wasteland.

 

You are absolutely full of it. I have done PVP on JC for over a year now and it has never taken 10 minutes for a pop during server prime time. Ranked is dead just about everywhere so it is ridiculous to even try to use that as some sort of indicator. You have it out for JC for some reason. If you don't like it move.

Edited August 9, 2017 by DWho

[DarthScruffy]

Well

 

It was not meant to be an exhaustive analysis of PVP and server populations. The point was that the people who "need" higher populations are a very small fraction of the overall population. The estimates made were designed to inflate the numbers of that group to cover various contingencies. Even if a merge is done right, what I will see as a story player is a massive increase in competition for open world objectives, which is by far the majority of them, making the game more frustrating to play (I was around when starter planet populations were around 150 and it took you a whole evening to complete 3 or 4 missions which might net you 1 level because you were constantly waiting for respawns.). I will also have to deal with more toxic chat and so much activity in chat that I can't read what is said before it scrolls up out of the window. All this for a very small fraction of the population that could easily move themselves to a more populated server but refuse to do so and would rather force everyone else in the game to move so they can have things the way they want. And before someone says "Aren't you inconveniencing people by wanting to stay put", the answer is no. My staying on the server I am on does not in any way prevent you from moving to a server more suitable to your playstyle whereas forcibly merging me with a server that suits your playstyle negatively impacts me. If I wanted to be on a high population server, I would move there. JC is the right population for my playstyle. If you want to merge the PVP servers to Shadowland to boost its population or merge them all into one server then do so but leave the mid population servers alone. There is absolutely no need to merge all of the east coast servers into 1 server.

 

Higher server populations don't necessarily mean more populated instances. It is not inconsistent to want big servers and small instances. If gen chat is traumatic, it can be turned off and you can stick to guild chat or form a channel with friends. The inconvenience suffered due to those items can be mitigated with current technology (even though the instance piece of this would require devs to cooperate) .

[Icykill_]

You are absolutely full of it. I have done PVP on JC for over a year now and it has never taken 10 minutes for a pop during server prime time. Ranked is dead just about everywhere so it is ridiculous to even try to use that as some sort of indicator. You have it out for JC for some reason. If you don't like it move.

 

But how long is your servers prime time for? And who defines what time that actually it?

 

A game that is live 24 hours a day and international, means there are lots of time zones. Having a game only playable for 4-5 hours a day is bad. A game like this should have about 16-18 hours a day,

 

If you went back two and a half years ago we had 16-18 hours a day where we could get sub 5 min pops.

18 months ago it was about 14 hours a day

12 months ago about 10-12 hours a day

9 months ago about 9-10 hours a day

Now it's 4-6 hours a day on Harbinger and that is the most populated server. I can only imagine how bad other servers are.

 

There is a distinct trend showing the "prime" times are getting smaller and smaller... soon there won't be a prime time

Edited August 9, 2017 by Icykill_

[Deewe]

^^^ this. I fell in love with the entire kitch of Star Wars when the first movie came out when I was 10 years old (saw it in a drive-in during an electrical storm), with tie fighters, and x-wing fighters, and light sabers, and force apparitions, some scary guy with COPD... still in love with it.

Remove the IP and pretty sure 99.99% of the players would /quit in a heartbeat.

[DWho]

But how long is your servers prime time for? And who defines what time that actually it?

 

A game that is live 24 hours a day and international, means there are lots of time zones. Having a game only playable for 4-5 hours a day is bad. A game like this should have about 16-18 hours a day,

 

If you went back two and a half years ago we had 16-18 hours a day where we could get sub 5 min pops.

18 months ago it was about 14 hours a day

12 months ago about 10-12 hours a day

9 months ago about 9-10 hours a day

Now it's 4-6 hours a day on Harbinger and that is the most populated server. I can only imagine how bad other servers are.

 

There is a distinct trend showing the "prime" times are getting smaller and smaller... soon there won't be a prime time

 

Icy, you know there isn't enough population in the entire game to make active times that big. Even if you merged all the US servers you would be lucky to get 8 hours. The only way you could do it would be to merge all of the servers into one global one and the lag would kill the game. 4-6 hours a day is about what you get on JC (the total pop is lighter than Harb but despite what some people say it is not empty). Usually about 7 pm to 11 pm local time is what I would call prime time for an east coast server. It can start as early as 6 pm and go as late as midnight depending on what event is going on. My definition of prime time generally revolves around can I play the group content I want to play and I have had no issues with getting Pub side PVP to pop in less than 5 minutes when I am on (which usually falls in the time between 6pm and midnight. WZs tend to drop off after 10 pm local time but GSF tends to pick up). I only run the 4 daily WZ so my requirement is quite a bit lower than someone who only PVPs. I fill in the time with other activities so even if there is an unusually long wait I don't notice it. Harb, JC, and EH all have about the same population now based on the TorStatus reports I've seen (EH and Harb running at about 5% above the lower limit of Standard population and JC running at 80-90% of upper limit of Light). I haven't looked at Shadowlands lately so I don't know where that falls. Harb picks up a little late night action because it also houses what is left of the APAC community (the east coast servers don't have that benefit since there are european servers)

[Jnaathra]

A huge chunk of the content in this game is solo or small group. I really have no interest in forced mergers. I would be game for free transfers that have a cooldown and I would be game for making cross server queues.

 

My 2 cent.

[HuaRya]

But how long is your servers prime time for? And who defines what time that actually it?

***Snip

A game that is live 24 hours a day and international, means there are lots of time zones. Having a game only playable for 4-5 hours a day is bad. A game like this should have about 16-18 hours a day,

***Snip

There is a distinct trend showing the "prime" times are getting smaller and smaller... soon there won't be a prime time

 

The makers of Mobas or MMO's probably equate 'prime time' to a game on the decline. The same goes for the excuse 'oh it's summer everyone is away from their computer surfing in Hawaii' or 'oh it's winter break and everyone is snorkeling in the Bahamas'.

 

It's really as simple as bringing together your active population of players together so they can do all the content the game offers. Does a movie theater play the same movie in five separate theaters if there are only ten people in each one watching ? No they don't. They will probably scale the five down to one theater......

[Khaleg]

You misunderstand, I agree with you. I was trying to say that they won't lose much money if people weren't transferring.

 

Ok then if this was your intent. :-) Sorry I answer so late but my account was locked in an effort of Bioware to finally help me with a 15 month old major bug in the game I got no help with in all this time... Thanks to a personal contact to Eric something happens finally...

 

You literally said though that they won't make any more money from transfers, but this is technically not correct. Any single cc spend - no matter how it was gained, only exception for the most part at least are the achievement ccs but even those not entirely because any minute in the game is potentially earning money for them with the cartel market being around - means earning money for Bioware because any cc spend for purpose x can't be spend for purpose y and potentially any player spends cc on purpose y sooner or later. Do you get what I am saying?

Edited August 10, 2017 by Khaleg

[bdatt]

We also have a ton of in-game 'things' to consider like Legacy Cargo Hold slots across multiple-servers, decorations and Strongholds, currency caps, merging of Legacies, number of characters on a server, keeping guilds and guild assets intact, and more.

 

If you want to keep people playing this MMO, you need to bring people together. I've had some character names since 2012 but who cares about a name when there's no point in logging in because there's nobody to play with.

 

 

• Regarding legacy cargo hold: just dump any overflow into mail and let players figure it out.
  
• Strongholds/guild ships? Thrill of the redecoration?
  
• Conquests? Let people join the mega guilds if the achievements mean that much to them. That's how it's always been anyway.
  
• Currency caps are character-based. I don't see why that's an issue. Edits: I was just thinking credits. Still seems a minor issue.
  
• You deal with merging legacies already.
  
• Total character number? Keep a second server for all the accounts/characters that haven't logged in in 3+ years. That would probably lower your data storage by 99% on the active server (hyperbole to emphasize the game population is dying).
  

Edited August 10, 2017 by bdatt

[DarthSpuds]

If you want to keep people playing this MMO, you need to bring people together. I've had some character names since 2012 but who cares about a name when there's no point in logging in because there's nobody to play with.

 

I've been through two server mergers already thanks.

Both time I lost Legacy and Character names.

 

If it happens again, I am out for good.

 

I don't have any problems getting groups for the content I want to play - if other players are having issues maybe the problem is them, not the server.

 

All The Best

[kodrac]

play a Singleplayer game and when BW merges the servers eventually I will laugh my butt off. If not their loss. Please go solo player you won't be affected at all so your opinion doesn't matter

 

Wow. Just... Wow. I think it's pretty clear who's opinion really doesn't matter. Intolerant is as intolerant does.