Server Merge Discussion Thread

[casirabit]

Almost no one is asking for one mega server. Leave the RP servers, have 1 PvE server west coast and 1 east coast (that means closing all the unnecessary PvE and PvP ones), and then for the EU leave the English PvE (TRE) and RP (Progenitor) servers and then maybe leave a PvE server for the German and French players.

 

But right now, there's an unnecessary amount of the servers in NA and EU that need to be merged. They aren't needed. For example, JC and Shadowlands shouldn't be competing for the same party, thus should be merged.

 

 

Thank you for that. You proved my point. That user was essentially twisting Keith's words. I listened up till the 31min mark where they switched gears to QoL and not once did he even suggest that a totally new server be created and that be deemed the biggest server. No one would leave Harb, it would just be another dead server no one would use.

 

What difference does it make? If they decided to make a new server for the mergers then that would be fair for everyone. Why should Harbinger not have to move as well unless people who are wanting a merger really only want everyone to come to Harbinger so they wouldn't have to move. If they make a new server for a merger then it would only be fair that everyone would need to move to that server including Harbinger.

 

IN addition, I relistened to the podcast and if you will notice at 27:27-27:39 he states they would have a new name so either they are going to make a brand new server, which could be interpreted they are doing or there will no longer be a Harbinger. They also have stated a few times in this podcast they do not want to force players to move if they don't want, which is the direct opposite of what some want in this forum.

Edited August 14, 2017 by casirabit

[DWho]

Almost no one is asking for one mega server. Leave the RP servers, have 1 PvE server west coast and 1 east coast (that means closing all the unnecessary PvE and PvP ones), and then for the EU leave the English PvE (TRE) and RP (Progenitor) servers and then maybe leave a PvE server for the German and French players.

 

But right now, there's an unnecessary amount of the servers in NA and EU that need to be merged. They aren't needed. For example, JC and Shadowlands shouldn't be competing for the same party, thus should be merged.

 

 

Thank you for that. You proved my point. That user was essentially twisting Keith's words. I listened up till the 31min mark where they switched gears to QoL and not once did he even suggest that a totally new server be created and that be deemed the biggest server. No one would leave Harb, it would just be another dead server no one would use.

 

If you are going to force moves everyone should suffer the same inconveniences.

[Ylliarus]

Almost no one is asking for one mega server.

 

That is not true there are more than enough people who consider megaservers to be the best solution to the current problem. I honestly agree with them because it simply is the most productive and efficient way to go forward in the long run of the game. Doing some small server merges will temporarily make it appear the problem is solved, but if you want to secure the future of the game then megaservers are the most optimal solution. So I'd say, one West Coast Server, one East Coast and one European server. And if people demand that everyone should suffer the inconveniences of a server merge then let those megaservers be completely new servers everyone will be moved to. Then we're all in the same boat.

 

Also, leaving RP servers intact will completely defeat the purpose of a server merge. I understand the concerns of the RP'ers as I have been one myself for all the five years that I played this game. But instead of leaving RP servers intact implement a seperate RP instance where the Code of Conduct of the RP servers apply. Perhaps add some extra features to the RP instance such as story instances being accessible as locations to RP as well, maybe even completely make it a cosmetic instance where you can't leave or progress through missions, where enemies are turned friendly so that RP'ers can access all locations without being interrupted to fight.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Ylliarus

[casirabit]

That is not true there are more than enough people who consider megaservers to be the best solution to the current problem. I honestly agree with them because it simply is the most productive and efficient way to go forward in the long run of the game. Doing some small server merges will temporarily make it appear the problem is solved, but if you want to secure the future of the game then megaservers are the most optimal solution. So I'd say, one West Coast Server, one East Coast and one European server. And if people demand that everyone should suffer the inconveniences of a server merge then let those megaservers be completely new servers everyone will be moved to. Then we're all in the same boat.

 

Also, leaving RP servers intact will completely defeat the purpose of a server merge. I understand the concerns of the RP'ers as I have been one myself for all the five years that I played this game. But instead of leaving RP servers intact implement a seperate RP instance where the Code of Conduct of the RP servers apply. Perhaps add some extra features to the RP instance such as story instances being accessible as locations to RP as well, maybe even completely make it a cosmetic instance where you can't leave or progress through missions, where enemies are turned friendly so that RP'ers can access all locations without being interrupted to fight.

 

As someone has already said that will not work, so what you are basically telling RP forget your roleplay that style is not wanted so we just going to tell you to stop roleplaying, which is what you are saying since instances will not work as the is no Code of Conduct now and there will not be one now. Funny you say you are a roleplayer but yet you want to kill roleplay. Okay.....

[Ylliarus]

As someone has already said that will not work, so what you are basically telling RP forget your roleplay that style is not wanted so we just going to tell you to stop roleplaying, which is what you are saying since instances will not work as the is no Code of Conduct now and there will not be one now. Funny you say you are a roleplayer but yet you want to kill roleplay. Okay.....

 

You completely misintepret my words and put words into my mouth I never said. I don't want RP to be killed I don't want it to stop and I never said RP is not wanted. I just saw how the amount of people RP'ing was declining and how there were almost no new people to supplement the losses. The guild I had been in for for years fell apart due to that exact reason, playerbase declining on the Progenitor. Merging the servers would boost the RP community instead of kill it because there would be a much larger playerbase from which to recruit new people. How do you not see that a larger playerbase will mean a larger amount of people to get into RP guilds and most importantly roleplay with? Has the fear of trolls blinded rp'ers that much? We have dealt with trolls in the past, surely we can do it if servers are merged. Roleplay can continue and should continue on merged servers and as I already said, thanks to the larger playerbase RP guilds will obtain more people to RP with. It's a win-win, don't you see that?

Edited August 14, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Andryah]

As someone has already said that will not work, so what you are basically telling RP forget your roleplay that style is not wanted so we just going to tell you to stop roleplaying, which is what you are saying since instances will not work as the is no Code of Conduct now and there will not be one now. Funny you say you are a roleplayer but yet you want to kill roleplay. Okay.....

 

Yeah. Instancing works well to separate PvP from non-PvP but it WILL NOT WORK as a barrier to RPers getting trolled and griefed. While the serious anti-RP griefers can certainly roll and level characters on a traditionally RP server... the effort bar is high enough to stop most of them. Whereas simply being able to change instances is really no barrier at all.

 

But if this thread has demonstrated anything... it's that many players simply want what they want and do not care what the impact may be on other players being forced into something. They simply do not care Casirabit... so this ongoing pile-on about megaservers, forced merges (as opposed to transfer by choice), and the ever callus "screw RPers and just give them an instance" nonsense will continue in this thread.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Andryah

[Andryah]

You completely misintepret my words and put words into my mouth I never said. I don't want RP to be killed I don't want it to stop and I never said RP is not wanted. I just saw how the amount of people RP'ing was declining and how there were almost no new people to supplement the losses. The guild I had been in for for years fell apart due to that exact reason, playerbase declining on the Progenitor. Merging the servers would boost the RP community instead of kill it because there would be a much larger playerbase from which to recruit new people. How do you not see that a larger playerbase will mean a larger amount of people to get into RP guilds and most importantly roleplay with? Has the fear of trolls blinded rp'ers that much? We have dealt with trolls in the past, surely we can do it if servers are merged. Roleplay can continue and should continue on merged servers and as I already said, thanks to the larger playerbase RP guilds will obtain more people to RP with. It's a win-win, don't you see that?

 

Sorry, but you simply are not listening to the concerns of RPers about this. And stating that you are an RPer your self does not build credibility for your case. Instancing WILL NOT prevent the callus trollers of RPers from doing exactly that. I am not an RPer, but I do play a lot on RP servers.. and I certainly understand the concerns of RPers and support them on their concerns.

 

Besides... Keith has made it pretty clear in his recent interview... the studio does NOT want to force anyone off of a server they are on and enjoy. Period.. full stop. That means several things: 1) no consolidations to megaservers 2) no forced moves via merges to consolidate players against their will. 3) the implementation of a new large server where all the no life no guild members who demand fast queue pops and random grouping on demand can aggregate without destroying the game play of those who actually want to avoid this.

[casirabit]

Yeah. Instancing works well to separate PvP from non-PvP but it WILL NOT WORK as a barrier to RPers getting trolled and griefed. While the serious anti-RP griefers can certainly roll and level characters on a traditionally RP server... the effort bar is high enough to stop most of them. Whereas simply being able to change instances is really no barrier at all.

 

But if this thread has demonstrated anything... it's that many players simply want what they want and do not care what the impact may be on other players being forced into something. They simply do not care Casirabit... so this ongoing pile-on about megaservers, forced merges (as opposed to transfer by choice), and the ever callus "screw RPers and just give them an instance" nonsense will continue in this thread.

 

Yea I have to agree with you and that makes me sad. I have always accepted others playstyle and only wanted the same thing but it doesn't look like that here. They don't care if they kill roleplay or if they lose more players but yet lets merge even if we are going to lose more people but they will get what they want.

 

They also don't care that Keith said they don't want to force players to move. That doesn't work for these people, as they want to force everyone to a server of their choosing whether or not that is what Keith has stated. They seem to ignore this.

Edited August 14, 2017 by casirabit

[Ratajack]

If Keith has actually stated this and you're not twisting his words, I'd like to know where he said this because I know NOBODY except the very few of the anti-server merge crowd who want dead servers for some reason are the ones advocating for this. The vast majority want actual server merges and no more dead servers.

 

Listen to Keith's interview for yourself. It has been linked numerous times.

[Ylliarus]

Yeah. Instancing works well to separate PvP from non-PvP but it WILL NOT WORK as a barrier to RPers getting trolled and griefed. While the serious anti-RP griefers can certainly roll and level characters on a traditionally RP server... the effort bar is high enough to stop most of them. Whereas simply being able to change instances is really no barrier at all.

 

But if this thread has demonstrated anything... it's that many players simply want what they want and do not care what the impact may be on other players being forced into something. They simply do not care Casirabit... so this ongoing pile-on about megaservers, forced merges (as opposed to transfer by choice), and the ever callus "screw RPers and just give them an instance" nonsense will continue in this thread.

 

But everyone is assuming RP will die because of some trollers (come on, it won't RP'ers are more dedicated than that). By fearing them as much as you do at the moment you are giving them the power to influence you. How can you know that RP will die in the case of a megaserver, there is absolutely no way to know that. Why is none of the rp'ers considering the fact that a larger playerbase means more people to RP with? Or are the RP'ers that elitist and want to stick to their own little clubs and allow no one else in? Is it a case of "we're better than them" mentality? Megaservers will be a huge boost to RP, I am convinced of that and I long for the day I will be proven right.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Andryah]

I'd use the anology that the titanic passangers could see the iceburg an hour before it hit and were yelling at the captain and crew to change course. But the captain and crew ignored them and only tried to turn after the ship split in half and was sinking.

 

 

Bad analogy is bad.

 

Can we please not use analogies that tie back to the actual death of more then a thousand people? It's disrespectful and it's a bad analogy for an MMO in any situation.

 

Besides.. the passengers on the Titanic did not see the iceberg an hour in advance and tried screaming warnings to the crew. Even the crew charged with watching for icebergs and other ships DID NOT see the ice in time.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Andryah

[Andryah]

But everyone is assuming RP will die because of some trollers (come on, it won't RP'ers are more dedicated than that). By fearing them as much as you do at the moment you are giving them the power to influence you. How can you know that RP will die in the case of a megaserver, there is absolutely no way to know that. Why is none of the rp'ers considering the fact that a larger playerbase means more people to RP with? Or are the RP'ers that elitist and want to stick to their own little clubs and allow no one else in? Is it a case of "we're better than them" mentality? Megaservers will be a huge boost to RP, I am convinced of that and I long for the day I will be proven right.

 

Again.. not listening.

 

RPers are not claiming trollers will kill RP. They are claiming that they have the right to not easily be trolled endlessly by anti-RPers, which is what you instancing approach will offer up. Get clue please, because harassment condoned WILL drive good players away from a game.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Andryah

[Ylliarus]

Bad analogy is bad.

 

Can we please not use analogies that tie back to the actual death of more then a thousand people? It's disrespectful and it's a bad analogy for an MMO in any situation.

 

Besides.. the passengers on the Titanic not see the iceberg an hour in advance and tried screaming warnings to the crew. Even the crew charged with watching for icebergs and other ships DID NOT see the ice in time.

 

But the user used the analogy in a respectful way? If he/she had made some silly or stupid remarks around it then okay, sure, but if it is used in a respectful manner then there is nothing wrong with it. You can also overdo being respectful to the point one won't be able to say anything because it will disrespect someone, somewhere in some way.

[casirabit]

But everyone is assuming RP will die because of some trollers (come on, it won't RP'ers are more dedicated than that). By fearing them as much as you do at the moment you are giving them the power to influence you. How can you know that RP will die in the case of a megaserver, there is absolutely no way to know that. Why is none of the rp'ers considering the fact that a larger playerbase means more people to RP with? Or are the RP'ers that elitist? Megaservers will be a huge boost to RP, I am convinced of that and I long for the day I will be proven right.

 

Because I tested it out already: I made a toon on Harbinger to test it out. Do you know what I experienced when I asked about roleplay? Roleplay is not accepted here, so shut up about roleplay. I did that on the fleet and 2 other areas, same response, so how is that proving you right that more people will want to RP with that type of attitude. Sure....... and I have a bridge I can sell you in Arizona (and Arizona being a desert state)

 

I deleted that toon and said never would I go to Harbinger again after that sort of treatment.

Edited August 14, 2017 by casirabit

[Ylliarus]

Again.. not listening.

 

RPers are not claiming trollers will kill RP. They are claiming that they have the right to not easily be trolled endlessly by anti-RPers, which is what you instancing approach will offer up. Get clue please.

 

And you are refusing to listen to me. You claim I'm the one not listening and the one who is wrong, but did you take the moment to consider my words and thoughts? And why are you giving the trollers so much power, fear attracts them and what you exhibit in these forums is exactly what will cause them to pester you endlessly. If the RP'ers would collectively say "alright, let them come, we won't mind" then you take away all the power from them. They will have no effect on you and you will truly be ignoring them. Now? Now you prove that what they do has the desired effect, entire servers of people being afraid of them.

[TUXs]

Yes, they are. It's the very defintion of an indicator actually, which means not telling the whole story but giving an idea.

You're right. The only people who don't think it's an indicator are the same people claiming everything is fine when it's clearly not.

[Ylliarus]

Because I tested it out already: I made a toon on Harbinger to test it out. Do you know what I experienced when I asked about roleplay? Roleplay is not accepted here, so shut up about roleplay. I did that on the fleet and 2 other areas, same response, so how is that proving you right that more people will want to RP with that type of attitude. Sure....... and I have a bridge I can sell you in Arizona (and Arizona being a desert state)

 

I deleted that toon and said never would I go to Harbinger again after that sort of treatment.

 

On a merged server they would have to accept the roleplayers because everyone will be in the same boat. The Devs should increase time and resources on players making reports and immediately take action if a roleplayer makes a report. A ban of a day and on repeated incidents longer. If people would say "shut up about RP, go away", you report them. If players troll you, report them. The solution is easy, the reporting system of the game would just require more time and effort from the Devs AND it should be taken far more seriously when a RP'er is reporting detestable behaviour from other players.

[Andryah]

And you are refusing to listen to me. You claim I'm the one not listening and the one who is wrong, but did you take the moment to consider my words and thoughts? And why are you giving the trollers so much power, fear attracts them and what you exhibit in these forums is exactly what will cause them to pester you endlessly. If the RP'ers would collectively say "alright, let them come, we won't mind" then you take away all the power from them. They will have no effect on you and you will truly be ignoring them. Now? Now you prove that what they do has the desired effect, entire servers of people being afraid of them.

 

I'm not only listening to you, I am replying to you.

 

So sorry you do not appreciate people making specifics counter-points and disagreeing with you, much less pointing out the fact that you are approaching this with a narrow bias.

 

We can agree to disagree, but I refuse to accept your bias that RPers (which I am not actually one of, but am sympathetic to their wants and needs) should simply accept instancing and force merges into player environments that are in fact hostile to RPers. Read Casi's shared experience with simply asking about RP on Harbinger. Or, I guess ignore her actual experiences and double down on forced megaservers and no safety from harassment for RPers.

[casirabit]

On a merged server they would have to accept the roleplayers because everyone will be in the same boat. The Devs should increase time and resources on players making reports and immediately take action if a roleplayer makes a report. A ban of a day and on repeated incidents longer. If people would say "shut up about RP, go away", you report them. If players troll you, report them. The solution is easy, the reporting system of the game would just require more time and effort from the Devs AND it should be taken far more seriously when a RP'er is reporting detestable behaviour from other players.

 

Oh please reporting them? How good is report right now? Why should that change when it is not even listen to now.

 

And no they will not have to accept roleplayers. If a person doesn't accept them now they aren't going to suddenly change and be accepting.

[Andryah]

On a merged server they would have to accept the roleplayers because everyone will be in the same boat. The Devs should increase time and resources on players making reports and immediately take action if a roleplayer makes a report. A ban of a day and on repeated incidents longer. If people would say "shut up about RP, go away", you report them. If players troll you, report them. The solution is easy, the reporting system of the game would just require more time and effort from the Devs AND it should be taken far more seriously when a RP'er is reporting detestable behaviour from other players.

 

In such a scenario.. where the studio forced (or simply gave the option) aggregation onto a new server.. the first thing the toxic players from Harbinger would do is harass RPers into either leaving the server, or the game, or stifling them into silence to avoid being targeted. You know who won't be moving to said server?.... RPers. I concede that most players would leave them alone.... but it is that harassing minority that can and will be the issue and you bet they will aggregate on that server too.

 

If you think otherwise... then you and I have nothing further to discuss.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Andryah

[Ylliarus]

I'm not only listening to you, I am replying to you.

 

So sorry you do not appreciate people making specifics counter-points and disagreeing with you, much less pointing out the fact that you are approaching this with a narrow bias.

 

We can agree to disagree, but I refuse to accept your bias that RPers (which I am not actually one of, but am sympathetic to their wants and needs) should simply accept instancing and force merges into player environments that are in fact hostile to RPers. Read Casi's shared experience with simply asking about RP on Harbinger. Or, I guess ignore her actual experiences and double down on forced megaservers and no safety from harassment for RPers.

 

I actually just replied to Casi with a possible solution to the issue that would have to come from the Devs. As a roleplayer myself I know exactly what she is talking about but also how to counter it. By giving trolls power through fear, they get the desired effect. I suggest that the Devs should take up a more firm stance on this topic of rp'ers getting trolled and openly condemn the practice and support roleplayers. A public statement from Bioware that roleplayers always have a place in the game no matter what server they are on should aid in eliminating the feared behaviour we are talking about from non-roleplayers. A promise from the Devs to crack down on people bullying, hating and trolling RP'ers should also go a long way.

[casirabit]

I actually just replied to Casi with a possible solution to the issue that would have to come from the Devs. As a roleplayer myself I know exactly what she is talking about but also how to counter it. By giving trolls power through fear, they get the desired effect. I suggest that the Devs should take up a more firm stance on this topic of rp'ers getting trolled and openly condemn the practice and support roleplayers. A public statement from Bioware that roleplayers always have a place in the game no matter what server they are on should aid in eliminating the feared behaviour we are talking about from non-roleplayers. A promise from the Devs to crack down on people bullying, hating and trolling RP'ers should also go a long way.

 

Sorry I have no faith in BW policing anything. They haven't done anything before so thinking they would do something in the future makes me shake my head. I been playing long enough to know they will not do this no matter what they say.

[Ylliarus]

Oh please reporting them? How good is report right now? Why should that change when it is not even listen to now.

 

And no they will not have to accept roleplayers. If a person doesn't accept them now they aren't going to suddenly change and be accepting.

 

Then you did not read what I said. I said that time and resources should be increased on a report system so that roleplayers will be able to feel safe on a megaserver or merged server. It should be a strict system however, report comes in, immediate ban and subsequently check if the ban was rightfully applied. If it was, then all is good. If it wasn't then compensation can be given to the wrongfully banned player in question.

[Andryah]

A promise from the Devs to crack down on people bullying, hating and trolling RP'ers should also go a long way.

 

Won't work. And RPers know it.

 

In modern MMOs.... enforcement is after the fact (because they rely on reports to direct their attention in a game with thousands of players all doing different things at once on a server). Like it or not, this is the reality in modern MMOs. By the time they act.. the damage is done.

 

If it occurs rarely... good RPers will simply ignore the offenders by reporting and moving on. When it becomes pandemic on a server.... they RPers will move on, one way or the other.

 

Your idea lets you off the hook on your entrenched viewpoint about RPers here... but it in no way represents any sort of objective solution.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Andryah

[Ratajack]

And you are refusing to listen to me. You claim I'm the one not listening and the one who is wrong, but did you take the moment to consider my words and thoughts? And why are you giving the trollers so much power, fear attracts them and what you exhibit in these forums is exactly what will cause them to pester you endlessly. If the RP'ers would collectively say "alright, let them come, we won't mind" then you take away all the power from them. They will have no effect on you and you will truly be ignoring them. Now? Now you prove that what they do has the desired effect, entire servers of people being afraid of them.

 

In the first place, how effective is it really to "ignore" the trolls on, let's say Harbinger (the most toxic cesspool server)? Does that really stop the trolls? No, it doesn't.

 

Second, "ignore" lists will not solve anything, as they are , at best, only minimally effective.

 

 

Third:

 

Why should the RP'ers have to "ignore" the trolls?

 

Why should the RP'ers have to "ignore" the player spamming emotes in the middle of the group?

 

Why should the RP'ers have to "ignore" the those trolls covering their group with AOE attacks?

 

Etc.

 

 

RP instances will NOT work. Some may choose to ignore hat fact as it may not mesh with the desire they have for a "megaserver", but the reality of that fact remains.