Server Merge Discussion Thread

[RobertFKennedyUS]

There is no reason to negatively impact multitudes of players because some players refuse to avail themselves of any of the options they already have to play on a server with a population more to their liking.

 

Typical untruthful denial of reality and facts. The reasons are myriad and listed many times. I'll post them up for you again, just using my own idea, which is to merge only Jedi Covenant and Shadowlands for now, and mark other servers as low population, save them for later. The priority is to stop what surely must be the hemorraging of new and old players from the East Coast PVE servers.

 

• RE: Jedi Covenant and Shadowlands, the server populations are both significantly diminished compared to pre-5.0
  
• Group activities including operations, flash points, unranked warzones, ranked warzones, starfighter, uprisings (and other group activities such as heroics, world bosses, star fortresses) are often diminished to the point of practical non-existence outside of peak times
  
• Some group activities are out of reach for some (high difficulty operations, 16 player operations) because of a lack of people
  
• There is dysfunction on the markets (GTN) due to diminished population
  
• Given how gear-dependent many activities are (i.e. Nightmare operations, ranked warzones) and given that obtaining the best gear often means playing significant amounts of warzones or starfighter, it becomes highly inconvenient to wait for queue times for warzones and starfighter
  
• It's simply a foolish business practice for new and old players to wish to engage in a group activity, but then find out there's not enough people to do it. They will often taken their business elsewhere. This logic applies exponentially as a reason to label low population servers. Obviously anyone who logs in to a dead game is incentivized to look for another game.
  
• An East Coast PVE server should be modeled after Harbinger in terms of its activity and the overall level of contentment with the vitality and utility of the server population
  

 

I know you've got a record of selectively forgetting things, but let me especially emphasize one of my points: this game is a business and it does the business no good if it fails on the primary feature of the business (multiplayer online game). That's what we learned from Ben.

Edited June 6, 2017 by RobertFKennedyUS

[RobertFKennedyUS]

Not sure where the idea that JC is a dead server comes from. It has a very healthy population and ques pop for whatever you want. I do not do ranked so cannot comment on ranked ques. People who want to raid have no trouble getting groups, fleet is active, always lots of stuff listed on the GTN. JC is fine leave it alone.

 

This is wildly false. I looked a lot at the metrics of JC and compared them to Harb before I left the server in January. The fleet numbers are not comparable. On JC HM FP Q's don't pop, even when I've had a tank and heal grouped together around 4 or 5PM in the afternoon!!! Before I left, I took a look at the hypercrates for sale on the GTN, a page and a half for JC, 11 pages for Harb. The fleet chat is just that, all chat, few ops, few group activities.

 

How many NiM teams are there? 10? 2 of which you probably don't even know about bc they don't advertise. There are 10 NiM teams in 3 guilds alone on Harb. It's just a fraction of the total. I can only wonder how many raids don't happen or have to do something easy because you can't find a good sub. Does GSF pop? It actually does on Harb. I've heard that ranked is pretty much dead, unless you try to rig it with win trading. What is the point of standing pat? Pride? It goeth before the fall.

Edited June 6, 2017 by RobertFKennedyUS

[darthscotty]

This is wildly false. I looked a lot at the metrics of JC and compared them to Harb before I left the server in January. The fleet numbers are not comparable. On JC HM FP Q's don't pop, even when I've had a tank and heal grouped together around 4 or 5PM in the afternoon!!! Before I left, I took a look at the hypercrates for sale on the GTN, a page and a half for JC, 11 pages for Harb. The fleet chat is just that, all chat, few ops, few group activities.

 

How many NiM teams are there? 10? 2 of which you probably don't even know about bc they don't advertise. There are 10 NiM teams in 3 guilds alone on Harb. It's just a fraction of the total. I can only wonder how many raids don't happen or have to do something easy because you can't find a good sub. Does GSF pop? It actually does on Harb. I've heard that ranked is pretty much dead, unless you try to rig it with win trading. What is the point of standing pat? Pride? It goeth before the fall.

 

 

Clearly posting in this thread going forward is pointless since you are the only one capable of being right and everybody else is just wrong.

[AscendingSky]

Clearly posting in this thread going forward is pointless since you are the only one capable of being right and everybody else is just wrong.

 

And anyone posting actual evidence (one guy posted screenshots on the now-deleted earlier thread comparing Harbinger and JC populations at multiple times of day, showing JC was far from dead) instead of one alleged anecdote from the one time he tried to find a group on JC 6 months ago is obviously just lying... somehow...

Edited June 6, 2017 by AscendingSky

[Tisaren]

It's really beyond me how forcing players, who do not want to participate in group content and/or PvP, to a merged server will help the game. It's only detrimental to the enjoyment of the game for players like me. Especially those who enjoy RP and/or solo play.

 

How about leaving players SOME choice on what type of server (RP or non-RP) they want to play? I wouldn't mind one non-RP and one RP server, for example, but leave the choice to us.

[Soljin]

The only possible reason for no mergers at this point must be linked to the idea that the game will still receive an influx of players that could be problematic if they reduce the server count further.

 

Once that hope has gone my guess is that server mergers will happen in short order...

 

I'm not sure if they are waiting for the next movie or maybe there was hope that the Roadmap would bring some people back... and it did it seems. I on the other hand decided not to resubscribe so the Roadmap clearly had mixed results...

 

I suspect the game will continue to diminish because the gear grind is pretty much all that exists and content is not going to come fast enough to counter the burnout.

 

Maybe the hinge were servers would be merged is also the mark at which the game is no longer profitable? No idea. I would think at the very least they would label the servers to guide new players to a populated server...

 

I'm seeing more players at a single quest HUB in another game than the entire fleet on several SWToR servers during their Prime Time....That gives some serious context.

 

Figure out how to transfer player and guild assets fully and then merge servers....It is an MMO after all.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Soljin

[casirabit]

Apply RP rules to the instance. Simple. Then implement a system to ban trolls from those instances. It really isn't hard.

 

Right, like the RP rules they have in effect already? Oh right they don't so why in the world would you think they are going to do that with the stupid idea of putting RP in instances. Come on that they will not do when they don't even have RP rules to start with. Duh.

[Nightblazer]

Assuming no issues with loss of character name, stronghold, legacy or whatever, strictly speaking of just servers they could do two West and two east coast servers. One of each would be RP and the other non-RP.

 

For the EU they could do the same, have 6 servers, two English, two french and two German, one RP and one Non-RP in each.

 

Again this is strictly assuming no other issues that have been brought up regarding names, guild, flagship, etc.

[HuaRya]

I'm seeing more players at a single quest HUB in another game than the entire fleet on several SWToR servers during their Prime Time....That gives some serious context.

 

Because everyone is on one server in that other game.

[TUXs]

Yeah. That's fair. I'm kind of ignorant about the current PVP scene if I'm honest, so I can't speak for PVP players.

No no no...you're not ignorant, and I apologize if I came off harshly. Here's my reasoning (not that you asked, but I'd like to clarify):

 

PvP is a GREAT activity, but it's not one many people do exclusively (not in this game at least). Because PvP is usually just one of many activities a player participates in, it's silly to separate them because of their one desire...it would be like having GSF servers, or Crafting servers, or Flashpoint servers...ONE activity shouldn't define a server type.

 

RP is different. RP isn't an "activity", I'd call it a "style" of play...which is why I think RP servers serve a true purpose.

 

I hope that clears up my position a little better.

[EzioMessi]

Right, like the RP rules they have in effect already? Oh right they don't so why in the world would you think they are going to do that with the stupid idea of putting RP in instances. Come on that they will not do when they don't even have RP rules to start with. Duh.

 

No point of rules at all because the devs don't have the resources/will to implement them. Having one GM per server ingame all the time (or at least at all prime times) would lower griefing, trolling and harassment so much. I don't know if the problem is that EA doesn't want to pay those few dozen extra people, or if they don't want to lose the $15/month that the harassers give them, but they're going to eventually see the results of it.

[FerkWork]

Not sure where the idea that JC is a dead server comes from. It has a very healthy population and ques pop for whatever you want. I do not do ranked so cannot comment on ranked ques. People who want to raid have no trouble getting groups, fleet is active, always lots of stuff listed on the GTN. JC is fine leave it alone.

 

Alright if that is true, lets for argument sakes say I'm a raider looking for a NiM team with an open spot. And I mean real one not, I did SnV 6/7 and Nefra overgeared. Go ahead I'll wait since it's such a healthy server shouldn't take you a while.

[OneHit]

Avoid all the mess and just do cross server Ques. That way no1 loses anything and you could possibly balance pvp a little. At least make it it primarily Jedi vs Sith like it should be. Then People can go to w/e server they want and still get fast Ques.

[DWho]

Alright if that is true, lets for argument sakes say I'm a raider looking for a NiM team with an open spot. And I mean real one not, I did SnV 6/7 and Nefra overgeared. Go ahead I'll wait since it's such a healthy server shouldn't take you a while.

 

You are talking about an activity that maybe 0.5% (made up number but it is a small fraction of the total community) of the population of the game participates in and trying to use that as a measure of the health of a server. It is a measure of total population and that is all (and total population does not equal health). Nobody has said that all activities are equally playable on all servers but that the populations are large enough that most players can play the content they want the way they want.

 

If I saw convincing evidence that the issues with Ranked PVP and Nightmare mode operations could be fixed with a server merger without negatively impacting the rest of the community, I would be happy to support it. However, there are a lot of negative impacts that need to be outweighed by something else or addressed before I am prepared to support the size of the merger that some people seem to want. I do support merging the PVP servers with the PVE servers just not big servers like JC and Shadowlands.

[casirabit]

Alright if that is true, lets for argument sakes say I'm a raider looking for a NiM team with an open spot. And I mean real one not, I did SnV 6/7 and Nefra overgeared. Go ahead I'll wait since it's such a healthy server shouldn't take you a while.

 

I play on Ebon Hawk and we have a healthy population but rarely do raids so giving you a guild that has an open spot, I couldn't but I could refer you to a friend that does do them but my friend doesn't come to the forums so that wouldn't help you would it.

[Nmyownworld]

... I don't think forcibly moving people to a single server, to accomodate the PvP/raiding 'community', will benefit the game. Obviously I am only speaking for myself here, but if I am forced to move to a new, single server, I will most certainly unsubscribe.

This articulates my feelings about merging servers into a single mega-server. I play on East Coast servers -- JC, SL, Pot5. I have toons on Jung Ma (don't visit as much because I don't understand RPing) and Ebon Hawk (only a couple of characters, again because I'm unfamiliar with RPing). When I want to do random PUG group content, I go to JC or SL.

I like Pot5's small community. I don't want to be on a single, huge mega-server.

 

I would like to see the Role Play designation return to the server selection screen.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Nmyownworld

[Ylliarus]

I am a strong supporter of merging the European servers, as there are currently 9 and I don't think it still necessary to have that many. What I'd very much like to see is either one giant European megaserver, or 3 European megaservers, 1 English, 1 French and 1 German. That would be more than enough for the European side of the game in my opinion and greatly aid overall player activity.

[AscendingSky]

Alright if that is true, lets for argument sakes say I'm a raider looking for a NiM team with an open spot. And I mean real one not, I did SnV 6/7 and Nefra overgeared. Go ahead I'll wait since it's such a healthy server shouldn't take you a while.

 

It's rather disingenuous to use the amount of Nightmare raiders present to judge whether a server's population warrants mergers or not. Why? Because the vast majority of the super hardcore raiders left the game a long time ago--not due to population concerns, but because we went two and a half years without any new ops content. They cleared everything there was to clear, got bored, and hopped ship for other games with new challenges. So trying to use them as a measuring rod now to check the 'health' of the server isn't exactly fair, as I doubt even Harbinger has anywhere near the amount of NiM raid teams/guilds it used to anymore due to the content drought.

Edited June 6, 2017 by AscendingSky

[FerkWork]

I play on Ebon Hawk and we have a healthy population but rarely do raids so giving you a guild that has an open spot, I couldn't but I could refer you to a friend that does do them but my friend doesn't come to the forums so that wouldn't help you would it.

 

That was an example and a rhetorical question about JC as I know everyone who does Master Mode/NiM Ops on the server. As for EH, Shadow Council is dead (Rip Narsh PogChamp) and the only one remaining Eon moved on to Harb a while ago.

 

 

It's bad having nothing to offer returning raiders except things far beneath their skill.

[DWho]

I am curious as to what the guild status is of people on both sides of this argument. A server merger has the potential to have a severe impact on guilds, especially the smaller ones. Are more people in guilds against mergers, for mergers, or is it evenly split.

 

Myself, I am in a relatively small guild but we have a nearly fully unlocked guild flagship, a fully unlocked Yavin stronghold, and a seven tab guild bank that is full. This took a lot of effort to accomplish. Reforming the guild roster on a new server probably would not be a huge problem but transferring or losing guild assets or having to repurchase them would be. Merging the big servers would also ensure that we were not competitive at all in Conquest (which is hard enough as it is with some guilds putting up a million conquest points only hours into the event).

 

I am for merging the small PVP servers into the larger servers (with the caveat that that merger needs to be as seamless as possible) but against a merge at this time of JC and Shadowlands due to their size.

[Ratajack]

I still think in most cases, people go to the server with the most players, which would also be why some servers are dead and stay dead.

 

Labeling the old PVP servers as "very low" or "very light" population would help those new players who prefer a more populated server avoid those "dead" old PVP servers, while also allowing those players who prefer a more quiet server to play on a server more to their liking.

[FerkWork]

It's rather disingenuous to use the amount of Nightmare raiders to judge whether a server's population warrants mergers or not. Why? Because the vast majority of the super hardcore raiders left the game a long time ago--not due to population concerns, but because we went two and a half years without any new ops content. They cleared everything there was to clear, got bored, and hopped ship for other games with new challenges. So trying to use them as a measuring rod now to check the 'health' of the server isn't exactly fair, as I doubt even Harbinger has anywhere near the amount of NiM raid teams/guilds it used to anymore due to the content drought.

 

Except I was responding to the person who said that JC is full of raid opportunities and it's all rainbows and we have plenty of teams doing content. Which is a blatant lie. Heck even Forget the amount of teams just look at how many Origin and Nemesis people make up the relevant teams. Now that is more hilarious lol.

 

Mergers are a temporary fix, only the return to producing enough MMO content is sufficient to stave of the inevitable.

Edited June 6, 2017 by FerkWork

[Otaktey]

If the game engine allows for cross server group que, that would be all that is needed to fix ALL the dead servers.

Pro's

1. Group content would be available at all times.

2. Player bashing in general chat, due to a bad OPS or PVP run, would be almost eliminated.

3. It would be a software change not a hardware change.

4. Everyone can keep their character names and guilds in place.

5. There is never a need to merge servers, even if one server has low population, it will not affect the players on that server, as they can still participate in group content.

Con's

1. The economies on servers will differ. (this is really ok, as if you have one mega server with a bad economy, there is no where to transfer to a better economy.)

 

It just makes good sense to do a cross server group content que, before merging or buying a mega server. Also, if the population of the game increases over time (like after the release of the next Star Wars movie this year), there is no need to add a new server for a while.

[frennky]

I've seen quite few people say that they enjoy 'dead'/quiet servers and do not wish to play on high population servers. The client settings could help there. There is a setting most of you seem to overlook. It may be enough as it is or maybe additionally improved.

 

If you got to Preferences => Graphics => Visible Character Limit you can control how many players you see around you. They may even add as an option None. Other UI elements, such as number of people in instance or Chat can be turned off and you'd feel like you've got whole galaxy to yourself

 

Would this be a satisfactory solution to those players?

[Icykill_]

Eric, Keith and team,

 

If you go ahead with mergers I would ask you to consider regional players, that means people outside of the US and EU, such as the APAC region.

 

Lag is a major issue for us already because we lost our APAC servers and now have to play with 180-300ms lag on the west coast. It's even higher if we play on the east coast and the EU is a nightmare.

 

So my request is that you "at least" have one server located on the west coast or the APAC players will pretty much have to stop playing any lag sensitive parts of the game like pvp. For me that means stopping altogether.

 

If this merge goes ahead, please don't make one massive mega server for the US. At least have a server located on both coasts.

 

I hope you read this because the decision to close the APAC servers made a majority of them stop playing because they didn't want to go from 20ms to 200ms. I pray that you don't do something as silly as that and make one mega server for the US.

 

Cheers, and I hope you understand,