Server Merge Discussion Thread

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Ebon Hawk is a great server and we have a stable population but people are screaming merge all servers, not just the ones that need it. If they would restrict themselves to the ones that need it I would gladly agree with them to merge those servers but when they start mentioning making one server then they are pushing Ebon Hawk into the mixture.

 

I agree when thinking on it a bit more, there is really no point in merging the likes of Ebon Hawk if it indeed has a healthy population as you say (don't play there myself so don't know).

 

I guess people are coming from the point of view that if more were merged into say Harb then queue times would improve etc. for everyone but I think for the likes of RP servers there is a case that it wouldn't make a massive difference as those people are playing those servers for different reasons than PVP/OPs.

 

Also 2-3 mega servers aren't a great look for a game - screams "I'm about to die" imo. I think they should just address the servers that actually are dead now and actually hinder people for the reasons I previously outlined (plus a few others) - this should be priority.

[KrysTamar]

While I *like* the idea of a server merge (the Bastion is my home server with my oldest toons), I don't *love* it for two main reasons.

1) Even though my toons aren't on a designated RP server, I'm loathe to combine my characters with others of a different legacy. My different legacies each have a different "flavor" so to speak, so I'm not stoked about mixing them. At the very least, include a free name change for every toon that is transferred so I can add the prev. legacy name as a surname.

 

2) Outfit Designer...some of my tunes have outfits stamped with early game and some even with pricey dyes. Did I save that gear in my cargo hold? Heck no, it was stamped; what did I need level 5 gear hanging around for anymore? I transfer would mean I lose the gear, the dye and the credits I spent customizing those outfits. Ouch. If a merge wouldn't affect my stamped outfits, I may be a bit more amenable to it...especially if it also includes the aforementioned name change.

[GoldSting]

There seems to be a lot of semantic arguments being brought up. While the name thing might be a problem, I can't imagine BioWare would allow anyone to lose their strongholds/outfits/items/credits/whatever if there was a server merge.

[LadyAdmiral]

I'm late to the party but I wanted to share my two cents.

 

I don't care if you choose server merges or megaservers in the end - but no matter what the ability to play with other people is 100% better than any of the perks lost when moving. I see numerous threads on /r/swtor, twitter and in my youtube comments about people asking "is the game dead? I logged in and there was only 2 people on my planet.." and when we ask what server they are on the answer is almost always "no - but you are on a dead server". Can you imagine what happens to players who DON'T ask? They log in to a dead game. Just like players that can't get the game running due to technical issues, they're turned off from the game before ever even getting started.

 

---

 

Personal Anecdote

 

A few years ago our server was dying - Jung Ma. A few of the major guilds had jumped hip already and me and my guild had a major decision to make - stay where our guild was slowly withering due to lack of new friends to play with and no ability to do random pickup operation and groupings, or move servers?

 

In the end we moved OVER 100 PLAYERS to a new server.

 

• We lost our flagship - actually, two flagships, one halfway unlocked and beautifully decorated. Initially I thought it would be a major point of contention... but everyone voted that it wasn't worth staying on a dying server.
  
• We lost our "small community" - but eventually a lot of them transferred to and we didn't "lose" them after all.
  
• We lost our guild name - so we made a minor change to it, no big deal, we'd already lost it once before due to previous server merges.
  
• We lost our personal stronghold unlocks - but eh, in the end ALL of us voted YES to move and not a single person really balked too much at the stronghold unlock cost. Credits are worth nothing if you have no one to play with and to show off to!
  
• In our vote the ONLY reason someone voted "no" was because they wanted to stay on a PvP server. With the changes to map instances (PvE/PvP) this is no longer even an issue. We ended up picking an RP server because we liked the atmosphere and chance to RP - but we knew that chance would be available anywhere we wanted to "make it happen".
  

 

The biggest issue when we moved ended up being the loss of character names. That kinda sucked. I even lost my main character name (ouch) and a few really special ones I'd gotten on the quieter server (Prosper, Sun and Flagship). In the end it was still worth it and I still play my main character even though she had to throw in an apostrophe there... and it would be even better now that we have a "last name" option available.

 

So server merges/transfers? Do it!! Do it for the new players and returning players!

[Zhedzaban]

Calling for server merges feels a little selfish to me. Typically the cries are from people who have toons on a quiet server and do not want to transfer and lose a guild ship or they cannot be bothered redecorating. Whether they are legitimate concerns or not is one thing, but the bad outweighs the good.

 

Lots of people prefer dead servers, why force them to a crowded server?

 

Servers like Harbinger perform poorly already, and you want BC and TB to cram in there as well?

 

Lots of people have lots of toons on multiple servers. how do you resolve the character limit?

 

If BW can afford to keep multiple servers up, I don't see what the issue is and why we want to close them.

[Darkside]

 

Lots of people prefer dead servers, why force them to a crowded server?

 

.

 

Because this absolutely destroys the experience for new players and returning players, and gives them the false impression that the game is dead. This is more detrimental to the life/value of the product than the few "put-out" remaining players on the dead servers. Mergers would help everyone across the board except for the most anti-social among us.

[MadDutchman]

Server merges would do more harm than good, there are just too many problems involved just from a technical standpoint, let alone the personal/social.

 

People need to refocus a bit and ask WHY they want server merges. The top 2 I've seen are faster pops and better GTN. Both can be solved with cross server tech (the infamous cross server queues and cross server GTN of some sort)

 

This way is much better, it means those who want a quiet server can have one, and can even venture into group content on occasion if the mood is on them. Good for everyone.

[Darkside]

Server merges would do more harm than good, there are just too many problems involved just from a technical standpoint, let alone the personal/social.

 

.

 

Yet it somehow worked out twice before. I'm sure the devs are capable of fine tuning it some more. With the minor inconveniences smoothed over, there should be no reason not to merge them.

[MandFlurry]

I think at the end of the day, and i'm on both sides on this. Is that Fact that there is good and bad that would come of server mergers, as much as good and bad things that would come from not merging some servers as well.

 

That's the Honest truth there.

 

If i was in Charge of making these decisions, I would at first merge the Role-playing servers only, along with the PvP only server, then see where we can god with the PvE servers. People had better also think twice about the fact that the Western servers also house Asian-Pacific and Australian Members countries. So we do have to think about them too.

[Lord_Martheous]

Thank you Eric!

 

I am all for mergers because I believe keeping dead servers active does more harm than good. Players who return to, or roll on, those dead servers, are faced with the illusion that SWTOR is a dead game...which it is not.

 

There are a few primary concerns:

• Guild assets

• RP servers

• Names

 

Guild assets should be handled in advance of any merger by Bioware, on a case by case basic. Guild ships and guild strongholds would need to be unlocked on a new server and special help in reforming guilds should happen. Any merger needs to be as smooth as possible and guilds are one of the most important assets of this game.

 

RP server either need to continue to exist, or they need to have special accommodations in a merged scenario.

 

Name purge prior to any transfers and moving high population servers to the lower pop ones is what I would expect. That doesn't negate naming issues, but it does help.

 

 

Yes to this! I'm a GM on a number of guilds on the Bastion, well, what little is left of them. I can't move to another server or I'll lose all the guild stuff. Don't really want to start over again either. Gotta admit that cross-server stuff has merit too.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Lord_Martheous

[Estelindis]

Personally, I don't want to see server merges. My main reason is renaming characters, which I just don't want to do. I already had to rename some characters during the old server migration - and that was several years ago. By this point, it would be much harder.

 

As it stands, server transfers are super-cheap. People can move if they want. My server, The Progenitor, is still doing fine, and I am happy to stay there.

[Zhedzaban]

Because this absolutely destroys the experience for new players and returning players, and gives them the false impression that the game is dead. This is more detrimental to the life/value of the product than the few "put-out" remaining players on the dead servers. Mergers would help everyone across the board except for the most anti-social among us.

 

Sorry but that is a silly argument. If a new player didn't bother to check which servers are active before creating his toon, he would quickly discover the server he is on is a quiet one and he can re-roll on a more active server. I'd doubt very much he would throw his hands in the air and quit the game, then rush to tell his friends swtor is dead.

 

Wow still funnels new players into dead servers by having them marked as recommended. What usually happens is the new player plays for a month or so, then either transfers or re-rolls to a more active server if they want to play with a larger player base.

[MandFlurry]

Sorry but that is a silly argument. If a new player didn't bother to check which servers are active before creating his toon, he would quickly discover the server he is on is a quiet one and he can re-roll on a more active server. I'd doubt very much he would throw his hands in the air and quit the game, then rush to tell his friends swtor is dead.

 

Wow still funnels new players into dead servers by having them marked as recommended. What usually happens is the new player plays for a month or so, then either transfers or re-rolls to a more active server if they want to play with a larger player base.

 

 

Most New players are not psychic, so you can't just fault them on that.

[Ratajack]

Most New players are not psychic, so you can't just fault them on that.

 

A new player may not be psychic and choose Harbinger as their server, but most players should have a basic idea of the general population of the server they chose pretty quickly, likely within a few levels. At that point, if they feel the population is lower than they want, it should be a simple matter to create character on other servers to check the population on those servers, ask in chat which servers have a higher population, or even do a little research on the web.

 

If a player is not willing to put forth even that much effort, how long do you think it would be before they found another reason to leave?

 

That said, would it be nice if BW were to make it easier for a new player to choose a server with a population/community more to their liking? Yes. The question becomes how does BW do so while not seeming "biased" with regards to population or community?

 

Do they label the old PVP servers as "very low population, but generally respectful community", Jedi Covenant and Shadowlands as "medium population with a generally respectful community", The Ebon Hawk as "medium population RP oriented server with a generally respectful community" and Harbinger as "the most populated US server, but with an overall less respectful community"?

 

What about server stability? In the interest of allowing new players to make a more informed decision with regards to server choice, shouldn't BW also advise new players that while the Harbinger may be the most populated US server, it is also arguably the least stable?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Calling for server merges feels a little selfish to me. Typically the cries are from people who have toons on a quiet server and do not want to transfer and lose a guild ship or they cannot be bothered redecorating. Whether they are legitimate concerns or not is one thing, but the bad outweighs the good.

 

I'm on a populated server and I've given reasons why dead servers are bad for the game. Not to mention from a "selfish" perspective it would be nice to have more people to play with.

 

Lots of people prefer dead servers, why force them to a crowded server?

 

And you were calling merges selfish? This ^ is far more the case

 

Lots? Come on that's not even close to being true. If there were "lots" in any sort of significant sense they wouldn't be dead servers. Also this is an MMO with a ton of solo instanced content, there are plenty of single player games around if people would prefer not having anyone around at all.

 

Servers like Harbinger perform poorly already, and you want BC and TB to cram in there as well?

 

You are assuming population is what effects Harbinger? Maybe you're new or something but the server in this game have had FAR larger populations on them in days gone by with no more issues than what we see now. Sort of throws your point out the window.

 

Lots of people have lots of toons on multiple servers. how do you resolve the character limit?

 

They could probably increase it? Been done before ... strange question since the answer is seemingly simple.

 

If BW can afford to keep multiple servers up, I don't see what the issue is and why we want to close them.

 

The issue is it people wanting active servers returning to the game find themselves on dead servers and promptly leave again rather than waste cash transferring. New player come along and end up on such a server and assume the game is dead and promptly leave. Dead servers give bots free reign to material harvesting to then transfer to other servers for profit making purposes.

 

The benefit is "a FEW people like playing on dead servers by themselves" heh.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

there are just too many problems involved just from a technical standpoint,

 

Both can be solved with cross server tech (the infamous cross server queues and cross server GTN of some sort

 

Because that would be far easier from a "technical" standpoint right?

[Ratajack]

The issue is it people wanting active servers returning to the game find themselves on dead servers and promptly leave again rather than waste cash transferring. New player come along and end up on such a server and assume the game is dead and promptly leave. Dead servers give bots free reign to material harvesting to then transfer to other servers for profit making purposes.

 

The benefit is "a FEW people like playing on dead servers by themselves" heh.

 

So, you're answer is to negatively impact multitudes of people who are playing the game NOW (and likely supporting the game financially by subscribing) by forcing them to suffer the nightmares and headaches server merges would cause, in favor of someone who is NOT even playing the game now and only MIGHT POSSIBLY decide to try the game (return to the game) at some undetermined point in the future?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

At that point, if they feel the population is lower than they want, it should be a simple matter to create character on other servers to check the population on those servers, ask in chat which servers have a higher population, or even do a little research on the web.

 

I think you overstate what is simple for average people to bother doing. I'm sure many would be happy up until the point they want to do group content at which time if it's too much of a chore and costs money then there is just so much more out there for them to play because at least they gave this game a go right?

 

If a player is not willing to put forth even that much effort, how long do you think it would be before they found another reason to leave?

 

Longer than had they not had to put in that much effort. Unfortunately these days things need to be made as simplistic as possible to keep user retention up.

 

That said, would it be nice if BW were to make it easier for a new player to choose a server with a population/community more to their liking? Yes. The question becomes how does BW do so while not seeming "biased" with regards to population or community?

 

Do they label the old PVP servers as "very low population, but generally respectful community", Jedi Covenant and Shadowlands as "medium population with a generally respectful community", The Ebon Hawk as "medium population RP oriented server with a generally respectful community" and Harbinger as "the most populated US server, but with an overall less respectful community"?

 

What about server stability? In the interest of allowing new players to make a more informed decision with regards to server choice, shouldn't BW also advise new players that while the Harbinger may be the most populated US server, it is also arguably the least stable?

 

One solution would be to not allow new account sing ups onto the dead servers. If they really want they could transfer to them at some point but at least that would end new players on dead servers for the most part.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

So, you're answer is to negatively impact multitudes of people who are playing the game NOW (and likely supporting the game financially by subscribing) by forcing them to suffer the nightmares and headaches server merges would cause, in favor of someone who is NOT even playing the game now and only MIGHT POSSIBLY decide to try the game (return to the game) at some undetermined point in the future?

 

Define multitudes - multitudes in relation to what scale? Define how they are going to be negatively impacted?

 

Noting we (I?) are talking moving players from dead servers to active servers I am curious how you seem to come to a conclusion that so many people are going to be negatively impacted when for the most part the receiving server's players suffer none of the issues of the sending server such as naming issues, item transfers, guild transfers etc.

 

There is no disagreement those are all considerations that should be addressed by BWA in some manner before going ahead but even if that weren't the case there just isn't really that many people left on those servers to justify having them open.

 

Another option of course is permanent free transfers OFF those servers deemed to be dead.

[Ratajack]

Define multitudes - multitudes in relation to what scale? Define how they are going to be negatively impacted?

 

Noting we (I?) are talking moving players from dead servers to active servers I am curious how you seem to come to a conclusion that so many people are going to be negatively impacted when for the most part the receiving server's players suffer none of the issues of the sending server such as naming issues, item transfers, guild transfers etc.

 

There is no disagreement those are all considerations that should be addressed by BWA in some manner before going ahead but even if that weren't the case there just isn't really that many people left on those servers to justify having them open.

 

Another option of course is permanent free transfers OFF those servers deemed to be dead.

 

Define "dead". It should be obvious from this thread alone, that what one person considers "dead", others may find to be perfectly acceptable, if not desirable. It seems to me that "dead" is a subjective matter and not an objective matter.

 

The numbers of people negatively affected would depend upon which servers would be included in any mergers, in the event that BW does actually merge any servers, which they so far have chosen not to do.

 

Obviously, if it were only the three old PVP servers that were merged, the numbers of players affected would be relatively few when compared to the player base as a whole.

 

That is not what most people are asking to be done, however. All one has to do is to read through this thread and look at the number of posts advocating one mega server, or even a mega server on each US coast. This is where "multitudes" comes into play.

 

Since some posters claim to be so concerned about returning players being "driven away", let's not forget that server merges would likely also affect players who choose to return after any server merges took place. What happens when Johnny decides to return to the game and finds that his guild no longer exists, and all those guild assets that his guild worked so hard to obtain are simply gone. Do you think Johnny would remain and play, or would he simply turn around and leave the game again?

Edited June 6, 2017 by Ratajack

[MeNaCe-NZ]

 

That is not what most people are asking to be done, however. All one has to do is to read through this thread and look at the number of posts advocating one mega server, or even a mega server on each US coast. This is where "multitudes" comes into play.

 

I can only comment on what I personally have posted though and thus accordingly in my reply to you when I am quoted in a manner that I would think would be directed at my personal views.

 

I've stated these earlier, at first I thought "yay mega server" but I've since changed that opinion and posted accordingly also. IMO just the truly dead servers should be looked at at this stage.

 

Since some posters claim to be so concerned about returning players being "driven away", let's not forget that server merges would likely also affect players who choose to return after any server merges took place. What happens when Johnny decides to return to the game and finds that his guild no longer exists, and all those guild assets that his guild worked so hard to obtain are simply gone. Do you think Johnny would remain and play, or would he simply turn around and leave the game again?

 

Again I would think before any mergers need take place this sort of thing has to be addressed from a technical stand point by BWA. None of truly know how difficult it is to achieve - they may just have not done so in the past because "not worth the effort" where as now, with such a diminished population, anything they do they should definitely be taking care to please as many active players as possible (whilst striving to attract others back).

 

That is why I feel just a server merge done the old way would be a Ben Irving move and not something I would hope Keith would be in favor of.

[Ratajack]

I can only comment on what I personally have posted though and thus accordingly in my reply to you when I am quoted in a manner that I would think would be directed at my personal views.

 

I've stated these earlier, at first I thought "yay mega server" but I've since changed that opinion and posted accordingly also. IMO just the truly dead servers should be looked at at this stage.

 

 

 

Again I would think before any mergers need take place this sort of thing has to be addressed from a technical stand point by BWA. None of truly know how difficult it is to achieve - they may just have not done so in the past because "not worth the effort" where as now, with such a diminished population, anything they do they should definitely be taking care to please as many active players as possible (whilst striving to attract others back).

 

That is why I feel just a server merge done the old way would be a Ben Irving move and not something I would hope Keith would be in favor of.

 

It sounds like we may be on the same page, after all.

 

IMO, the only servers that should even be considered for server merges are the three old PVP servers, and not even those servers should be considered for merges until/unless BW can resolve ALL the issues surrounding server merges.

[NikSunrider]

I like having access to "dead" (a.k.a. quiet) servers from time to time. Harbinger and (to a lesser degree) the Ebon Hawk are just so busy!

 

Sometimes just logging onto Jung Ma and enjoying the scenic views with only 20 people online in the Galaxy is so satisfying.

 

I would also hate to lose all of my 15/15 guilds and our glorious names if server mergers happened.

[fushnchips]

Sometimes just logging onto Jung Ma and enjoying the scenic views with only 20 people online in the Galaxy is so satisfying.

 

This is one reason why certain servers should either be closed or merged a new player joins Jung Ma, Bastion, Pot 5 and bang they get the idea of a game that is not healthy at all.

[Ratajack]

This is one reason why certain servers should either be closed or merged a new player joins Jung Ma, Bastion, Pot 5 and bang they get the idea of a game that is not healthy at all.

 

IMO, a better approach would be to label those servers as "very light" or "very low population". That leaves those servers available for those that prefer that lower population while also deterring any new players who prefer a more populated server from choosing those servers.