Optimal Stats for all 24 Disciplines, 5.2 Edition

[Jevaruss]

I'm not seeing anything for 230 gear, is that the same as in 5.0?

 

Yes all 5.0 230-242 optimal gear is still the same. 5.2 didn't affect that.

[BraverDre]

This is a very useful thread. Keep it up please!) Can't wait for 5.3 rebalance patch..

 

Let's make Sorc DPS great again!

[olagatonjedi]

Have the spreadsheets been posted yet, like Bant used to do? Didnt see a response to a previous request yet.

[xiiMPuLSe]

With regards to tanks and def rating, would i hit the cap with without 244/6/8 warding mods and be able to sub them out for Lethals?

[LagunaD]

With regards to tanks and def rating, would i hit the cap with without 244/6/8 warding mods and be able to sub them out for Lethals?

 

There is no "cap" - Defense rating always reduces your damage taken.

[Torvai]

There is no "cap" - Defense rating always reduces your damage taken.

 

No it doesn't. Against Force/Tech attacks, defense is useless.

[rylanadionysis]

Operative - Medicine || Scoundrel - Sawbones

21348+-805 HPS @ 41.6 APM | 8673 Endurance | 7136 Mastery (Stim) | 4063 Power

2020 Critical (2xE, 14xA, 2xC) | 1848 Alacrity (8xE) | 0 Accuracy

 

 

See this confuses me, actually. The stock gear at mk5 tier 4 does not have these enhancement spreads, and while the gear grind is already hilariously bad, it seems odd to me, personally, to go for multiple say chest drops just to rip enhancements for alacrity.

 

The stock spread at 248 (and matching Ala/Crit to their respective pieces, with alacrity in the two smalls and two crit crystals, with adept ear and QS implants) will yield nearly identical stats +/- 20 here and there, to me it doesnt seem worth the extra grind outside of stock set pieces and just auging up what you have.

 

I mean right now I am sitting at 6842 MAS, 8496 END, 3940 POW, 2100 CRI, and 1705 ALA just matching augs to pieces (and i still need to get 4 armors from 246 to 248 (which will bring the MAS/POW/END in line, and since 3 are large pieces, 2 having crit, the other having alac, that will yield another 20-30 to those pools.) Then I swap one crit aug to alacrity and ill basically have the same stats +/- 20 as listed without the extra grind.

 

I dont feel like I am that far off just doing it that way, less complicated gearing, and basically the end result is the same. (if my math is right, its trading about 50 points of mastery for about 50 points of other things). So overgrinding to move 50 points around, is that even a thing considering we are now into 7000/8000+ territory?

Edited June 21, 2017 by rylanadionysis

[jagertharn]

Operative - Medicine || Scoundrel - Sawbones

21348+-805 HPS @ 41.6 APM | 8673 Endurance | 7136 Mastery (Stim) | 4063 Power

2020 Critical (2xE, 14xA, 2xC) | 1848 Alacrity (8xE) | 0 Accuracy

 

 

See this confuses me, actually. The stock gear at mk5 tier 4 does not have these enhancement spreads, and while the gear grind is already hilariously bad, it seems odd to me, personally, to go for multiple say chest drops just to rip enhancements for alacrity.

 

The stock spread at 248 (and matching Ala/Crit to their respective pieces, with alacrity in the two smalls and two crit crystals, with adept ear and QS implants) will yield nearly identical stats +/- 20 here and there, to me it doesnt seem worth the extra grind outside of stock set pieces and just auging up what you have.

 

I mean right now I am sitting at 6842 MAS, 8496 END, 3940 POW, 2100 CRI, and 1705 ALA just matching augs to pieces (and i still need to get 4 armors from 246 to 248 (which will bring the MAS/POW/END in line, and since 3 are large pieces, 2 having crit, the other having alac, that will yield another 20-30 to those pools.) Then I swap one crit aug to alacrity and ill basically have the same stats +/- 20 as listed without the extra grind.

 

I dont feel like I am that far off just doing it that way, less complicated gearing, and basically the end result is the same. (if my math is right, its trading about 50 points of mastery for about 50 points of other things). So overgrinding to move 50 points around, is that even a thing considering we are now into 7000/8000+ territory?

 

You should be going off of page 2 for healers, since they altered now much crit the devastating vengeance relic gives.

 

Operative - Medicine || Scoundrel - Sawbones

42.1 APM | 8673 Endurance | 7136 Mastery (Stim) | 4063 Power

1753 Critical (5xE, 4xA, 2xC) | 2115 Alacrity (5xE, 10xA) | 0 Accuracy

1 Target: 13282+-768 HPS

2 Targets: 16416+-848 HPS

3 Targets: 21400+-804 HPS

4 Targets: 26351+-890 HPS

8 Targets: 32865+-638 HPS

[rylanadionysis]

You should be going off of page 2 for healers, since they altered now much crit the devastating vengeance relic gives.

 

Operative - Medicine || Scoundrel - Sawbones

42.1 APM | 8673 Endurance | 7136 Mastery (Stim) | 4063 Power

1753 Critical (5xE, 4xA, 2xC) | 2115 Alacrity (5xE, 10xA) | 0 Accuracy

1 Target: 13282+-768 HPS

2 Targets: 16416+-848 HPS

3 Targets: 21400+-804 HPS

4 Targets: 26351+-890 HPS

8 Targets: 32865+-638 HPS

 

Wait, so Serend/Retrib is no longer the go-to? Been using that for years now -.-

 

Also I never thought id see 2k+ alacrity being top dog, i miss 4.0 lolz

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

There is no "cap" - Defense rating always reduces your damage taken.

 

Defense doesn't reduce damage taken, it is an all or nothing stat. A reduction of damage is a mitigation of damage taken [Joe merc gets hit, attack does 20k, a 20% damage reduction would than make it so the player hit with the 20k will only take 18k of damage.

 

Defense Rating on the other hand, is not a mitigation, it's an avoidance if the defense chance is successful.

 

For example if a character has a 10% defense chance, each time the player is successfully hit [which is based on RNG and other stats, than that hit has a 10% [another rng roll] of negating the hit result. If this rng roll comes in 10% or under, that hit becomes a miss, and is treated exactly as if the original attack roll had failed to hit in the first place. Thereby the character will have no damage applied to them.

 

If you every wondered why DPS specs at cap are supposed to have 110% accuracy instead of just 100%, this is why. Accuracy rating over 100 reduces the chance of a successful defense chance on a point for point basis. Bosses in Operations all have a base 10% defense chance, thus by having accuracy at 110%, it effectively nulls and voids any chance that the boss's defense chance can be sucessful. In essense, the boss will get no roll at defense.

 

That said, while might not seem to make sense, even with a 110% Accuracy which will negate the bosses 10% defense chance [or even another players in PVP] even though that still leaves a 100% accuracy, you can still miss and you will miss. That 100% accuracy only applies to attacks that do white damage [not force or tech]. So you will still miss at times, and if you have an off hand attack, the off hand attack will take a further [automatic] 33% accuracy penalty on to hit rolls that your main hand attacks do not suffer. That applies to all off hand attacks whether melee or ranged.

 

If you look at your character sheet in game, under the defense drop down menu the last two stats on that menu are Damage Reduction and Defense Chance. [Players receive a base 5% defense chance automatically, except for Sages/Sorcs who receive a base 10% defense chance automatically.].

 

Defense chance above the base 5% chance all non-sorc characters have can be obtained through gear and augments mostly, and those are generaly the province of Tank classes. While other classes could use such gear, for non tanks it would result in a DPS/Heal loss overall because it's not the appropriate stats that DPS and Heals benefit from the most. There are some skills, abilities, powers, utilities and attacks across some classes that grant defense bonus, sometimes as a temporary buff or sometimes a permanent bonus, but this is different across classes and specs.

 

Damage reduction stat is effected by armor, [type], class/spec passives/utilities, temporary buffs in a similar respect as mentioned above, and applies to 4 different classes of damage passively once any bonus' from various sources are applied to the stat [Energy, Kinetic, Internal and Elemental].

 

Defense chance you cannot count on because it only has a small chance of activating, but damage reduction always applies unless some specific power, attack or ability specifically stats it mitigates damage reduction values as applies to it in some manner.

 

If you hover over the stats with your arrow a tool tip floating menu will pop up and give you a specific read out of the elements and formula used in it's calculation.

 

 

Hope this helps clear it up some. Easy to get confused with all the values and effects and percentages/math it's based on.

Edited June 24, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Torvai]

That said, while might not seem to make sense, even with a 110% Accuracy which will negate the bosses 10% defense chance [or even another players in PVP] even though that still leaves a 100% accuracy, you can still miss and you will miss. That 100% accuracy only applies to attacks that do white damage [not force or tech]. So you will still miss at times, and if you have an off hand attack, the off hand attack will take a further [automatic] 33% accuracy penalty on to hit rolls that your main hand attacks do not suffer. That applies to all off hand attacks whether melee or ranged.

 

You're right on everything else, but this is simply not true.

 

At 110% acc you will only see misses if your class uses an offhand or if either you are debuffed on your accuracy(tanks generally do that, as well as some mobs in PvE) or your enemy is buffed on defense, like using a Saber Ward.

Outside of these three occasions, you won't miss if you have more than 110% acc.

 

And actually your acc rating affects both M/R and F/T accuracy. The difference being is, that defense in most cases only affects M/R

An exception to that, for example, would be a PTs 35% defense on explosive fuel, which affects both M/R and F/T defense.

[Zhiroc]

For example if a character has a 10% defense chance, each time the player is successfully hit [which is based on RNG and other stats, than that hit has a 10% [another rng roll] of negating the hit result. If this rng roll comes in 10% or under, that hit becomes a miss, and is treated exactly as if the original attack roll had failed to hit in the first place. Thereby the character will have no damage applied to them.

 

If I remember correctly SWTOR uses "single roll determination", not multiple rolls. Defense subtracts from accuracy, and is not a separate roll. While not mentioned here, crits are determined with the same to-hit roll, and is not a separate one as well.

[Morefunnest]

Do you think 5.3 had any effect on the stats? I'm not sure if it had a large enough effect on the optimal rotation of specs to make a difference. I'm mostly curious about the optimal stats of sorc healers with the crit proc relic and mastery stim.

[Mandatorian]

I see table listings like this, constantly when searching to find out what i need to focus on, in order to not be an *** and roll on wrong items, and to ensure i am actually going in the right direction in terms of gear, mods and crystals.

 

BUT!!..... The funny thing is, that it seems 99% of you lot, can read those tables, and understand them clearly, where i end up not getting any wiser at all :-/

 

What is my acc cap ? (Gunslinger, Saboteur)

What mods are wise to stuff in which slots ?

Is there set bonusses i should take into consideration ? (I take it, "Gemini" is the one to aim for...)

 

If anyone, know of a site, that speaks to the normal person, without the need to decipher stuff, please let me know :S ..

OR.... hand me a translator droid, so i can learn and understand those tables :S

... yeah... im sorry, but i REALLY tried figuring it all out on my own, and brain cracked a fuse :-/

[CarlGustaf]

I see table listings like this, constantly when searching to find out what i need to focus on, in order to not be an *** and roll on wrong items, and to ensure i am actually going in the right direction in terms of gear, mods and crystals.

 

BUT!!..... The funny thing is, that it seems 99% of you lot, can read those tables, and understand them clearly, where i end up not getting any wiser at all :-/

 

What is my acc cap ? (Gunslinger, Saboteur)

What mods are wise to stuff in which slots ?

Is there set bonusses i should take into consideration ? (I take it, "Gemini" is the one to aim for...)

 

If anyone, know of a site, that speaks to the normal person, without the need to decipher stuff, please let me know :S ..

OR.... hand me a translator droid, so i can learn and understand those tables :S

... yeah... im sorry, but i REALLY tried figuring it all out on my own, and brain cracked a fuse :-/

 

 

Let's work it through.

For Accuracy the optimal is at 110%. the optimal way to reach it is by 737 points Accuracy and 1% through the coumpanions buff. Vicadin puts up several options from whiche you can chose. The nearest you can get in 248 Gear is 750 points where you need 2 Enhancements and 3 Augments. But you can choose every posibility from thise tabel and it will more or less work.

 

Setbonus. The setbonus is for every tier of gear the same. As long as you take at least 6 Slinger tokens you have the best outcome. also do for example three 242 armorings stack with your two 236 and two 248..

 

and now for the tabel.

 

Sniper - Engineering || Gunslinger - Saboteur

10441+-270 DPS @ 40.3 APM | 8673 Endurance | 6884 Mastery | 3964 Power

1831 Critical (2xE, 11xA, 2xC) | 1617 Alacrity (7xE) | 759 Accuracy (1xE, 3xA, Stim)

 

10441+-270 DPS, this part Indicates how much average dps you will do under perfect circumstances. the +-270 is the standard diviation.

@ 40.3 APM, APM means Actions per Minutes. so how many rotational useful actions you should activate under perfect circumstances. (no server lag, no time delay and so on)

 

 

1831 Critical (2xE, 11xA, 2xC)

each of these indicates how much you need from which stat to achieve this "optimal" averege parse.

for Critical you should get 1831 points and thats equal to (2xE, 11xA, 2xC), 2 Enhancements, 11 Augments and 2 Crystals all with Critical on them. (Stim obviously means the Stim you put in)

Enhancements means also Impants and the Ear Slot. Because there is also a fictional Enhancement Slot. But of course you cant change only the enhancement slot.

Mastery, Endurance and Power will get theire stats automatically with your gear progression except its stated otherwise.

Edited July 18, 2017 by CarlGustaf

[Mandatorian]

Let's work it through.

For Accuracy the optimal is at 110%. the optimal way to reach it is by 737 points Accuracy and 1% through the coumpanions buff. Vicadin puts up several options from whiche you can chose. The nearest you can get in 248 Gear is 750 points where you need 2 Enhancements and 3 Augments. But you can choose every posibility from thise tabel and it will more or less work.

 

Setbonus. The setbonus is for every tier of gear the same. As long as you take at least 6 Slinger tokens you have the best outcome. also do for example three 242 armorings stack with your two 236 and two 248..

 

and now for the tabel.

 

 

 

10441+-270 DPS, this part Indicates how much average dps you will do under perfect circumstances. the +-270 is the standard diviation.

@ 40.3 APM, APM means Actions per Minutes. so how many rotational useful actions you should activate under perfect circumstances. (no server lag, no time delay and so on)

 

 

1831 Critical (2xE, 11xA, 2xC)

each of these indicates how much you need from which stat to achieve this "optimal" averege parse.

for Critical you should get 1831 points and thats equal to (2xE, 11xA, 2xC), 2 Enhancements, 11 Augments and 2 Crystals all with Critical on them. (Stim obviously means the Stim you put in)

Enhancements means also Impants and the Ear Slot. Because there is also a fictional Enhancement Slot. But of course you cant change only the enhancement slot.

Mastery, Endurance and Power will get theire stats automatically with your gear progression except its stated otherwise.

 

NOW it all makes a LOT more sens .. YAY!! Thank you so much : )

Makers of said table, should consider explaining the content for us less-versed in the lingo used :-/

[AdjeYo]

If I remember correctly SWTOR uses "single roll determination", not multiple rolls. Defense subtracts from accuracy, and is not a separate roll. While not mentioned here, crits are determined with the same to-hit roll, and is not a separate one as well.

 

Actually the game uses a two roll system. First a roll to check if you hit, where defense will subtract from accuracy and then a roll to check crits, where if crit and shield are over 100%, shield chance will be reduced (crits can't be shielded in swtor)

[Flusssaeure]

vicadin will you update the DPS / HPS ratings with the changes in 5.3? I definitly think that the ranking has changed.

[Semjazzah]

vicadin will you update the DPS / HPS ratings with the changes in 5.3? I definitly think that the ranking has changed.

 

I'm pretty sure it's in the works. With the major nerf to sniper's/slinger's dot spec , merc arsenal, and the changes to sorc/sage madness, the dps numbers have definitely changed.

 

As have the healers HPS, so the rankings definitely need updating, it simply doesnt reflect the reality of it.

 

Still, give the guy some time. I can't imagine the stress of testing this stuff constantly, when within 5.2 to 5.3 so shortly, there's such a redo for all affected classes

[JourrnoRush]

For a pvp balance sage, once I hit my crit cap just throw everything else into power right?

[Kirtastropohe]

Math challenged, and in brainshock from trying to find current information. A couple questions...

 

Can someone list the current caps (hard and soft) for mastery, power, crit, and alac?

 

Can someone give me some clue how to apply this for PvP?

I realize accuracy is not nearly as important (yes, I know there is debate even on this point, that's for another thread, lol), and I believe you should have more than 1800-1900 crit, so I am just trying to figure out where to stop the power and mastery.

 

I would like to best maximize for PvP, specifically deception assassin. Thank you in advance for any assistance.

 

PS - I will never understand the methodology used by bant and vicadin to update these things, so many thanks to them and those like them who put all this work in. It is appreciated.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Kirtastropohe

[ottffsse]

For a pvp balance sage, once I hit my crit cap just throw everything else into power right?

 

yeah. 1900 crit or so. 0 accuracy, 44% crit chance, 1100 alac for sustain dot Aoe build rest in power.

or 400-500 alac if you want more punch for single target damage, rest in power.

[Pyragor]

GEMINI MK-5, Tier 4: Legendary (248 ilvl)

Optimal Stats:

Sniper - Virulence || Gunslinger - Dirty Fighting

10467+-161 DPS @ 38 APM | 8673 Endurance | 6884 Mastery | 3964 Power

1795 Critical (6xE, 1xA, 2xC) | 1653 Alacrity (3xE, 10xA) | 759 Accuracy (1xE, 3xA, Stim)

 

 

Despite the nerf of Virulence in 5.2, the stats remained the same for Virulence/Dirty Fighting.

There was no change ?

Did I miss the new update ?

Edited July 25, 2017 by Pyragor

[vicadin]

I apologize for the delay however, I wanted to pass along a message that I am working on getting updates as a result of the 5.3 class changes. Unfortunately, some of the class changes require some actual live data in order to ensure some validation. Changing gear levels was pretty "easy" but class changes requires a bit more effort and time. With that said, since more class changes are coming in 5.4, I have contemplated holding off on posting updates until after 5.4 goes live and I have some actual live data to validate.

 

I know this is not what some people want to hear, the semi-good news is that it appears that none of the optimal stats for gear has changed as a result of the class changes (at least for what I can see). I will also offer that when the proposed class changes are posted, I definitely try to get them into the spreadsheet in order to gain an understanding of the effects - you will probably see my postings with relations to the rankings.

 

Also, my thought right now is to start a new forum post called "Optimal Stats for all 24 Disciplines, post 5.2 Edition" just to keep some of the old math and stats in place. Any thoughts?

[ottffsse]

I apologize for the delay however, I wanted to pass along a message that I am working on getting updates as a result of the 5.3 class changes. Unfortunately, some of the class changes require some actual live data in order to ensure some validation. Changing gear levels was pretty "easy" but class changes requires a bit more effort and time. With that said, since more class changes are coming in 5.4, I have contemplated holding off on posting updates until after 5.4 goes live and I have some actual live data to validate.

 

I know this is not what some people want to hear, the semi-good news is that it appears that none of the optimal stats for gear has changed as a result of the class changes (at least for what I can see). I will also offer that when the proposed class changes are posted, I definitely try to get them into the spreadsheet in order to gain an understanding of the effects - you will probably see my postings with relations to the rankings.

 

Also, my thought right now is to start a new forum post called "Optimal Stats for all 24 Disciplines, post 5.2 Edition" just to keep some of the old math and stats in place. Any thoughts?

 

Thank you for your work! not to nitpick but there are certain classes that can overachieve their thoretical optimal APM score by looking at some top examples on parsley, and some that underachieve the theoretical APM score-as in fall behind 2APM or so no matter what, which is quite serious.