Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[kongzi]

because wow is simply a joke in pvp **** attracts flies

its only played competitive because blizz always talks about 10mil subs (but we all know that its much less)

wow pvp has a real patchdepending pvp. one patch this charcombination is imba the next patch its another. thats not competitive thats a joke

 

/facepalm

 

If was going to reply to this in a serious fashion, but then I decided not to feed another troll.

[myrmexaw]

I'm level 21 and I finally see what your talking about.

Games still perfectly playable for me though, but I do hope for a fix soon.

 

it does not impair playing until you do something a little more challenging than questing and 4 man group that can be duo'ed.

[Ryzerion]

Come on. Your statement is false. In a truly competetive FPS game 'what you see is what you get' is absolutely critical. In WoW this is not true - and this is the reason why you feel that combat is so responsive. It is an illusion. As I have stated before I like this illusion and would like BW to import it to SWtoR but I am baffled by the so called l33t PvPers in this thread that hails it. It sucks for PvP.

 

In WoW this is done by allowing a mis-match in time stamps between client and server up to a roof (i believe it is 0.5sec). To show what I mean - take a look at the following example:

 

2 players at 40 FPS and with 150ms latency are PvPing. Both have 350ms in reaction time.

 

Player one starts a 0.5sec cast:

 

0.0 P1 starts cast

0.175 P2 sees the cast starting

0.5 P1 sees spell fire

0.525 P2 interrupts cast of P1 on P2s screen (end of cast on P2s screen).

0.7 P1 gets the interrupt msg

 

However, it is great for the feeling of control of your avatar and in PvE it is excellent. For PvP it is really questionable.

 

Net-net I would rather have it in SWtoR than not but do not make claims that are untrue.

 

For Sith Warriors, Jedi KNights, Consulars, and Inquisidors it isn't excellent.

 

You'll notice this from level one on all of those in PVE.

 

I mean honestly what was the point of no auto attack if the combat isn't fluid enough, the combat could of been handled differently, like you press one you swing, press it again you swing again, press it twice faster you got a combo, then press it 3 times plus 2 you have an outstanding combo, IMO I think it would have been a lot better.

 

Let me know if I'm wrong or the system above would have been worse.

[fallenvirtues]

For Sith Warriors, Jedi KNights, Consulars, and Inquisidors it isn't excellent.

 

You'll notice this from level one on all of those in PVE.

 

I mean honestly what was the point of no auto attack if the combat isn't fluid enough, the combat could of been handled differently, like you press one you swing, press it again you swing again, press it twice faster you got a combo, then press it 3 times plus 2 you have an outstanding combo, IMO I think it would have been a lot better.

 

Let me know if I'm wrong or the system above would have been worse.

 

Ummm I play a SW and I rarely have a slight problem...dont speak for all of us

[Merlinr]

I play a Sith Inquisitor and the spell delay is pretty bad to the point I can't keep up a fluid rotation. It makes this game feel more like one of the clunky FTP MMO's rather than a AAA MMO.

 

I really hope the fix it soon because as the thread title states, it will make or break the game. This is especially true when folks start raiding and realize they cannot heal or tank without ability delays. It will ruin the experience and cause people to leave the game.

[Cranberries]

BHs suffer from this so hard.

 

Tracer > Tracer > Unload proc > Unload ... Oh **** nothing happens?! ... > Unload ... What?! Nothing is happening?! > Unload proc runs out > Tracer missile debuff runs out.

 

T__________________T

 

For healing:

 

Healing Scan > Rapid Scan ... Oh **** need my emergency heal!! > ... 5 seconds later > Emergency Heal.

 

It's dumb. The combat system is utter tripe.

[Olzmo]

When i played super mario brothers and pressed a button little mario did what i told him to do immediately, if there was a .5 second delay on mario brothers the entire mario genre would have failed, maybe even nintendo.

Sure, but please keep in mind that a MMORPG game has gravely different environment than a singleplayer side-scroller world consisting of few differently colored pixels moving around, operated from a handheld game console.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Olzmo

[ajjw]

Still no response from BioWare? Pathetic.

[fallenvirtues]

BHs suffer from this so hard.

 

Tracer > Tracer > Unload proc > Unload ... Oh **** nothing happens?! ... > Unload ... What?! Nothing is happening?! > Unload proc runs out > Tracer missile debuff runs out.

 

T__________________T

 

For healing:

 

Healing Scan > Rapid Scan ... Oh **** need my emergency heal!! > ... 5 seconds later > Emergency Heal.

 

It's dumb. The combat system is utter tripe.

 

 

See this is the REAL problem...IF the UI responded as soon as you hit the button, the animations aspect of the combat would no longer be an issue

 

the UI is bugged...its obvious....They need to fix it

[Dextral]

Can't stress enough that this is an issue that does not affect everyone. This isn't about some people getting used to, it just that some people don't have this issue.

 

I think it would be more constructive if we'd collect information about settings, connection and so on.

 

I'd also strongly encourage those affected to ticket this issue with as much details as possible. As I don't know what details about system spec and game settings is submitted along the ticket it might be useful to include that information, too.

 

My wife and I are running the game with the "Use Quickslot On Key Press" option off and "Ability Action Queue Window" at 0.5.

 

Also I remember that when WoW introduced their use action on key press option, some players reported this was causing delays for them.

[Ryzerion]

Ummm I play a SW and I rarely have a slight problem...dont speak for all of us

 

Press one then use vicious slice/strike. Or try stomp

 

It's actually funny to be honest.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Ryzerion

[knell]

This issue is unbelievable.

 

This is evident everywhere, from mounting to capturing nodes in Ald or VS. There is a .5 second window after you finish the cast timer on either arming or disarming, or capping a point wherein which you can still be interrupted.

 

This. is. game. breaking.

 

As a healer, doing level 50 HM's it is absolutely necessary at times for me to chain cast to keep my team alive. Derp, back to back cast timers actually can do a number of things:

 

* Cancel out your ability totally, while still playing the animation but no effect

* Cancel out the animation but still apply the effect (in this case a heal)

* Get caught in a jerky animation bug where every time I try to cast an ability I will do a quick animation start then it will be canceled, when I try again (about a split second later) I will get the jerk start/stop bug again, this will repeat over and over for a time. Pausing didn't stop this issue. This has caused deaths and wipes and repair bills.

 

This is absolutely debilitating to high level play, in the worst way. We're gearing up to start raids very very soon and can you imagine trying to take bosses with this buggy combat system?

 

Uggh.

 

 

I think you are exaggerating. It only happens when you are spamming (pressing an ability multiple times 1111111111111111111111). Learn to control your character by timing your abilities. SWTOR combat is about timing. You cant spam or faceroll and win.

Edited December 28, 2011 by knell

[Merlinr]

How something this basic and crucial to playability could get by the QA (Quality Assurance) process baffles me. Edited December 28, 2011 by Merlinr

[Elog]

For Sith Warriors, Jedi KNights, Consulars, and Inquisidors it isn't excellent.

 

You'll notice this from level one on all of those in PVE.

 

I mean honestly what was the point of no auto attack if the combat isn't fluid enough, the combat could of been handled differently, like you press one you swing, press it again you swing again, press it twice faster you got a combo, then press it 3 times plus 2 you have an outstanding combo, IMO I think it would have been a lot better.

 

Let me know if I'm wrong or the system above would have been worse.

 

Sorry - I am confused. Was this a reply to my post?

 

As I said: I like the WoW system even though it is bad for PvP and would like BW to import it to SWtoR.

 

As a side note: As many others have written we are discussing two different things at once. Animations and their synch to cast times and GCD on one hand (pure bug fixes). And the philosophical question of 'what you see is what you get' vs 100% perceived avatar control (but then with time stamp anomalies which especially for PvP is bad).

[MaceTowani]

As I stated in the previous thread, I am a Jedi Sage healer and hardly have this problem. I sort of did until I stopped spamming my moves at the last second and decided to use bettter timing and planning by anticipating when the health of my companion or me would drop(works great in groups as well) All I need is a decent tank/DPS player and we can do quite literally any flashpoint together.

 

Having patience, timing, and a clear strategy will always trump spamming and panic healing, which is what this mechanic emphases.

[fallenvirtues]

Press one then use vicious slice/strike.

 

I execute a lot of abilities all the time...Occasionally I will get no response...but thats really far and few in between...I am no experiencing the problem like you all are...Not saying there isnt an issue...Just not everyone is experiencing it...period

[knell]

As I stated in the previous thread, I am a Jedi Sage healer and hardly have this problem. I sort of did until I stopped spamming my moves at the last second and decided to use bettter timing and planning by anticipating when the health of my companion or me would drop(works great in groups as well) All I need is a decent tank/DPS player and we can do quite literally any flashpoint together.

 

Having patience, timing, and a clear strategy will always trump spamming and panic healing, which is what this mechanic emphases.

 

/thread

[Xcore]

Can't stress enough that this is an issue that does not affect everyone. This isn't about some people getting used to, it just that some people don't have this issue.

 

I think it would be more constructive if we'd collect information about settings, connection and so on.

 

I'd also strongly encourage those affected to ticket this issue with as much details as possible. As I don't know what details about system spec and game settings is submitted along the ticket it might be useful to include that information, too.

 

My wife and I are running the game with the "Use Quickslot On Key Press" option off and "Ability Action Queue Window" at 0.5.

 

Also I remember that when WoW introduced their use action on key press option, some players reported this was causing delays for them.

 

I am sorry but you are 100% wrong, it is game wide. Please read some of the 2400 posts in the previous thread... Every few pages someone like you pipes in. It is tiresome to have to explain over 2000 posts worth of logic and discussion to make you see this.

[Uldalas]

So give me an MMO that did it better.

 

Instead of saying NO NO NO NO, look at what we've been saying over this entire thread. I don't know what your agenda is. Mine is to try to make this game better.

 

We don't want to go back to playing WoW, we want SW:TOR to get better. You're just shooting down everything anyone says with no constructive opinion.

 

Darkfall was better. It was a completely different system however. Comparing Darkfall to SWTOR is like comparing Quake to Need for speed.

 

Its about game mechanics, and SWTOR is using the same game mechanics as WOW. Only WOW does it better. Character responsiveness and unbalanced PvP are two different things.

 

Anyone using the argument that WOW PvP was bad needs to keep in mind that what this thread is about is not overpowered abilities or the war CC works. Its about "when i click my button does my character do something?" and most of the time he doesnt.

 

To be honest we already have lag from playing the game over the net. we dont need more lag from a crappy programmed animation problem.

[Ailerist]

yup try ravage and watch ur done do the moves and be restricted from any other move but deal no damage and keep doing it gg

[MaceTowani]

I am sorry but you are 100% wrong, it is game wide. Please read some of the 2400 posts in the previous thread... Every few pages someone like you pipes in. It is tiresome to have to explain over 2000 posts worth of logic and discussion to make you see this.

 

Every other page there are people like me who tell you that we are NOT experiencing this problem because we do "this" and "that" but it seems all everyone does is try to ignore it or rationalize why they SHOULDN'T try it for some odd reason.

 

Don't spam, Don't panic heal, Wait until the move animation is finished before chaining, some moves naturally chain better than others.

 

I.E. Disturbance + Telekinetic Throw = Extremely smooth transition

 

Force Wave + Disturbance = Not so smooth transition

Edited December 28, 2011 by MaceTowani

[Ryzerion]

I execute a lot of abilities all the time...Occasionally I will get no response...but thats really far and few in between...I am no experiencing the problem like you all are...Not saying there isnt an issue...Just not everyone is experiencing it...period

 

Were is my facepalm emote when I need ha ha.

[Zironic]

Come on. Your statement is false. In a truly competetive FPS game 'what you see is what you get' is absolutely critical. In WoW this is not true - and this is the reason why you feel that combat is so responsive. It is an illusion. As I have stated before I like this illusion and would like BW to import it to SWtoR but I am baffled by the so called l33t PvPers in this thread that hails it. It sucks for PvP.

 

In WoW this is done by allowing a mis-match in time stamps between client and server up to a roof (i believe it is 0.5sec). To show what I mean - take a look at the following example:

 

2 players at 40 FPS and with 150ms latency are PvPing. Both have 350ms in reaction time.

 

Player one starts a 0.5sec cast:

 

0.0 P1 starts cast

0.175 P2 sees the cast starting

0.5 P1 sees spell fire

0.525 P2 interrupts cast of P1 on P2s screen (end of cast on P2s screen).

0.7 P1 gets the interrupt msg

 

However, it is great for the feeling of control of your avatar and in PvE it is excellent. For PvP it is really questionable.

 

Net-net I would rather have it in SWtoR than not but do not make claims that are untrue.

 

That is NOT HOW WOW DOES IT.

 

This is how WoW does it.

 

0.0 P1 starts cast, at this point his casting animation starts, however not his cast bar (take note!)

0.75 This is when the server gets his ability, server starts casting

0.150 P2 sees the cast starting

0.150 P1 gets the reply from server, casting bar starts

0.575 Spell fires server side

0.650 Spell fires on P1 and P2's screen.

 

Server still allows interrupts between 0.575 and 0.650

Edited December 28, 2011 by Zironic

[fallenvirtues]

I am sorry but you are 100% wrong, it is game wide. Please read some of the 2400 posts in the previous thread... Every few pages someone like you pipes in. It is tiresome to have to explain over 2000 posts worth of logic and discussion to make you see this.

 

No he is not wrong...You have had a good amount of people post saying they are not experiencing the problem...How is he wrong???

 

I wont lie, I rarely will have a situation in pvp that I will hit the button and nothing will happen...but its not often...And that same situation has happen to me in WOW as well

[Khoranth]

Sure, but please keep in mind that a MMORPG game has gravely different environment than a singleplayer side-scroller world consisting of few differently colored pixels moving around, operated from a handheld game console.

 

It does not matter what type of video game genre it is, a GOOD GAME has responsive controls.

 

And it is not like WoW was the only MMORPG with responsive combat, heck I played ancient EQ for 5 years and never dealt with crap like this.

 

I did not run into this type of unresponsive combat until i played warhammer.

 

So stop blaming WoW and demanding SWTOR be laggy and unresponsive, since WoW isn't.

 

Even ancient EQ was responsive and did not suffer from slow laggy unresponsive combat.