Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Khoranth]

Well, I just played a full day at lvl 50 BH Merc, another day of not one time experiencing this supposed problem. Another day of queuing an attack on the ending animation of the previous one, another day on no space between attacks or animations whatsoever.

 

Thought it was just other classes that apparently had this supposed "problem" since my Merc has never had it, till I hear others claim their BH Merc's have all these supposed problems, Unload not firing off, etc.

 

 

Stop. Mashing. the Effing. Buttons.

 

 

And don't try and say that's not the problem. Cause it is. At least in those cases, it is.

 

And don't try the old "well you just take too long!" Phht. My attacks are coming off as fast as any player in this games. Cause they can't get any faster. I'm queuing attacks up on the hind-end of the one before it, before it's even quite finished.

 

Hell, sometimes I can get 2 instant attacks to fire nearly simultaneously.

 

 

 

Maybe other classes are having problems, but I've not had it on the Merc. I have noticed the cooldown and animations aren't always ending the exact same time for certain moves, and that should be tweaked and fixed... though it makes no difference to me, as I go 90% by animation anyhow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why don't you go play a Jedi sage, join a warzone, have 1-2 melee attack you, then try to use force wave to knock them back.

 

The fracking animation takes forever to start, then after it finally starts you are waiting another 2-3 seconds on the stupid animation before you can do anything.

 

Go do that them come back and tell me how much fun you had trying to get force wave to work correctly.

 

COme back and tell us this problem does not exist.

[Mankub]

I support this thread. I love the game and to me it's nothing tot game breaking but I agree that the combat feels a bit clunky and unresponsive at the moment.

[-NightFall-]

I thought I was losing it or there was an issue with my computer until now. I have noticed this and done some serious button smashing thinking it was me.. lol.

 

-NF-

[kalibri]

Stop. Mashing. the Effing. Buttons.

 

 

Why ? Button mashing should have no adverse effect other than:

 

1. Ability not firing because of conditions are not met (out of range, ability on cooldown, etc)

2. Ability going on cooldown (shame on me if it happens).

3. Break my keyboard in much less time than its usual lifespan (none of your business).

 

You people don't really see the logic here, I mash buttons because the moment I catch up with you I WANT that stun or slow to apply. There. Instantly. With no delay.

[Darth_Eclipses]

As I stated in the previous thread, I am a Jedi Sage healer and hardly have this problem. I sort of did until I stopped spamming my moves at the last second and decided to use bettter timing and planning by anticipating when the health of my companion or me would drop(works great in groups as well) All I need is a decent tank/DPS player and we can do quite literally any flashpoint together.

 

Having patience, timing, and a clear strategy will always trump spamming and panic healing, which is what this mechanic emphases.

 

You are absolutely right. Using timing, having a good rotation and sit. awareness isn't something that's supposed to be a boon for this combat system though - it's universal.

 

However, imo it sounds like you haven't gotten to 50 and done any hardmodes yet. When you do, you will understand that chain casting is necessary at times, esp when a boss is able to literally one or 2 shot respectably geared level 50s.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Darth_Eclipses

[fallenvirtues]

Fixing the animations would be awesome but it would only make it harder to balance things later. An ability with an animation of 3 secs wouldn't be easy to "buff" so it only took 2,5 secs for example. Allow clipping animation and the people who think the non-fluid animations they get when spamming are totally welcome to click buttons slower.

 

I dont get what your saying...So if BW made that animation work with in the 2.5 secs, that would mess up balance? The only fix is to allow you to clip animations when the next ability is executed?

 

Sounds like some of yall are nit-picking to make the combat system exactly like WoW's for better or worse

[Feskitt]

Why don't you go play a Jedi sage, join a warzone, have 1-2 melee attack you, then try to use force wave to knock them back.

 

The fracking animation takes forever to start, then after it finally starts you are waiting another 2-3 seconds on the stupid animation before you can do anything.

 

Go do that them come back and tell me how much fun you had trying to get force wave to work correctly.

 

COme back and tell us this problem does not exist.

 

 

Maybe that's why I said IDK about other classes, huh?

 

[oflow]

bumping again until we see an official response at least acknowledging the issue.

 

Did some more experimenting with it last night and the issue happens more when you actually mouse click buttons than when you use keybinds.

 

Also, like Neroe posted you can make the off GCD abilities fire by right clicking the target before activating the ability. Kinda sucks to have to spam right click to use other abilities though.

Edited December 28, 2011 by oflow

[Paganini]

To the fanboys actually defending this obvious flaw in coding, consider this:

 

Bioware will never say these delays are intentional.

 

Why? Because it's bad, clunky, annoying, unresponsive, and they know it. Until Bioware comes out and admits it's intentional, it's ludicrous to assume that it is.

[Xcore]

Well, I just played a full day at lvl 50 BH Merc, another day of not one time experiencing this supposed problem. Another day of queuing an attack on the ending animation of the previous one, another day on no space between attacks or animations whatsoever.

 

Thought it was just other classes that apparently had this supposed "problem" since my Merc has never had it, till I hear others claim their BH Merc's have all these supposed problems, Unload not firing off, etc.

 

 

Stop. Mashing. the Effing. Buttons.

 

 

And don't try and say that's not the problem. Cause it is. At least in those cases, it is.

 

And don't try the old "well you just take too long!" Phht. My attacks are coming off as fast as any player in this games. Cause they can't get any faster. I'm queuing attacks up on the hind-end of the one before it, before it's even quite finished.

 

Hell, sometimes I can get 2 instant attacks to fire nearly simultaneously.

 

 

 

Maybe other classes are having problems, but I've not had it on the Merc. I have noticed the cooldown and animations aren't always ending the exact same time for certain moves, and that should be tweaked and fixed... though it makes no difference to me, as I go 90% by animation anyhow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have no problem getting two abilities off at the same time, this means nothing AT ALL. Please accept that for different potential reasons, you are not sensitive enough, in tune enough to recognize this glaring problem. This does not mean it doesn't exist...

 

Simply because you don't have knowledge of or an answer to a question or a problem, that does not mean It Is not there...

[hirath]

Bumped and rated.

[MaceTowani]

Why don't you go play a Jedi sage, join a warzone, have 1-2 melee attack you, then try to use force wave to knock them back.

 

The fracking animation takes forever to start, then after it finally starts you are waiting another 2-3 seconds on the stupid animation before you can do anything.

 

Go do that them come back and tell me how much fun you had trying to get force wave to work correctly.

 

COme back and tell us this problem does not exist.

 

I am a Jedi Sage and I do NOT experience this problem. Feskitt is right, you cannot spam, you are only working against the combat mechanic the more you do.

 

I participated in SEVERAL PvP warzones, and whenever someone tried to CQC me, I unleashed a Force Wave and created more distance by running backwards. Don't try to force it while you;re in the middle of an animation, just be patient, plan out your moves, and then execute them.

[arcanewon]

I have posted this exact thought on both the Warhammer and Rift forums. People dont realize how import this is.

 

Even if someone doesnt consciously know it, it is making the game feel clunky to them.

 

Slow responsiveness is make or break. I really dont know why its so hard for them to make these animations less lengthy or to bleed them in like WoW does.

 

I really hope that bioware reads this. I love the game and want to see it last.

[Feskitt]

Why ? Button mashing should have no adverse effect other than:

 

1. Ability not firing because of conditions are not met (out of range, ability on cooldown, etc)

2. Ability going on cooldown (shame on me if it happens).

3. Break my keyboard in much less time than its usual lifespan (none of your business).

 

You people don't really see the logic here, I mash buttons because the moment I catch up with you I WANT that stun or slow to apply. There. Instantly. With no delay.

 

 

Ok.... so mashing buttons is half of what's jacking up you people's animations/attacks... and instead of just stopping it and keying effectively, you're gonna keep on mashing and keep on complaining that it's "not working right?"

 

 

Do you drop a glass of water, then complain that the floor is wet?

 

 

It seems to be coming more and more apparent: much of this has nothing to do with anything being broken per se; it has everything to do with a lot of people just not liking this system.

 

 

 

[HoneyBoy]

I dont get what your saying...So if BW made that animation work with in the 2.5 secs, that would mess up balance? The only fix is to allow you to clip animations when the next ability is executed?

 

Sounds like some of yall are nit-picking to make the combat system exactly like WoW's for better or worse

 

Bioware is already using GCD system similar to WoW. Why not make combat as fluid as WoW too? Why have the GCD in place otherwise? Just lock me out of all my abilities until the animation is done instead, if you they plan on keeping it as is because right now the GCD is near pointless.

[CurzedMouse]

To the fanboys actually defending this obvious flaw in coding, consider this:

 

Bioware will never say these delays are intentional.

 

Why? Because it's bad, clunky, annoying, unresponsive, and they know it. Until Bioware comes out and admits it's intentional, it's ludicrous to assume that it is.

 

Actually:

 

I remembered i have read something about combat in this game, posted from a developer so i made a quick search and found this:

 

http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110916

 

if you don't whant to read all the article i will just share a statement made by Mark How the Principal Lead Animator at BioWare : " A key aspect we learned early in development was that players do not enjoy having character control taken away from them because of an action or animation. "

 

So Bioware you are still developing the promised combat style? because the players are not enjoying it right now

[Lhaim]

As I said before it IS there, some people notice it some do not, for those who do it is virtually gamebreaking at times, for those who do not then you should feel fortunate. But just because you do not "Feel" it does not mean it does not exist. Bounty Hunter Flame Thrower and Unload are two of the worst affected Unload just simply doesnt work sometimes but the GCD still triggers.

 

It is a horrible detached feeling from your avatar which I cannot put my finger on.

 

Some people really dont notice this. I have been praising wow for the last years only returning to its pvp because the responsiveness/ability feedback is lightyears better than any other mmo outthere. Been ranting on these and other mmo forums before and after release and tireing my friends n family about it for years.

 

Friend of mine that i play mmos with for years now doenst notice it and if he does (maybe he just sais so to make me stop ranting) it isnt much of an issue for him.

 

I just needed to post this nonsense because im UNGODLY HAPPY abput the fact this thread exists and theres other people outthere having such a hard time with the clunkyness of mmo combat like displayed in swtor.

 

 

P.S. Not really relevant but over the years i noticed that people who dont have an issue with this (at least from the gamers i know well) also dont seem to have an issue with playing games with relatively low fps (below 60, for me below 90) while for me its a gamebreaker at least in pvp. I cannot pvp with low frames i also wont play any online fps below 100 average or dipping below 60 occasionally.

 

Some people just dont see it but i can tell the difference between 30/60/100+ after 20sec of play in any shooter (cs,cod,bf,ut,q,etc.). Most of these people also never notice the input lag with vsync on, i dont flame them until they start insisting that because they dont notice it it isnt there...

[Feskitt]

I have no problem getting two abilities off at the same time, this means nothing AT ALL. Please accept that for different potential reasons, you are not sensitive enough, in tune enough to recognize this glaring problem. This does not mean it doesn't exist...

 

Simply because you don't have knowledge of or an answer to a question or a problem, that does not mean It Is not there...

 

Ok. So long as you accept that:

 

"Not like Wow =/= broken"

 

 

ps. if I'm having no problem firing off attack after attack with literally no delay between whatsoever, then how comes I'm the "unaware" one, and the fumblers are somehow 'on to something?'

 

 

DISCLAIMER: the above post refers only to the BH Merc, as it's the only class I've played

 

 

[Uldalas]

I dont get what your saying...So if BW made that animation work with in the 2.5 secs, that would mess up balance? The only fix is to allow you to clip animations when the next ability is executed?

 

Sounds like some of yall are nit-picking to make the combat system exactly like WoW's for better or worse

 

Let me try to explain better.

 

Basically if they made the animations like 0.1 second shorter then the cast of a given ability that would be great.

 

BUT... it will make it hard for BW to balance things later on. everyone time they want to change a castime on any spell they would have to completely redo the animation or it would look weird. Imagine a 3 second cast getting nerfed to a 5 second cast. 3 seconds of animation and then 2 seconds of doing nothing. This i could live with but the real problem comes when they shorten the cast time. Same ability gets buffed from having 3 seconds castime to having 1 second casttime. That would result in 1 second castime and STILL 3 seconds of uninterruptible animation. So basically the "buff" would do absolutely nothing.

 

The game does not allow cutting animations short which is basically half the problem of theis entire thread. Allowing cutting animation off might not be the solution but it would greatly improve my personal game experience and its the easiest fix i can come to think of.

[kalibri]

Ok.... so mashing buttons is half of what's jacking up you people's animations/attacks... and instead of just stopping it and keying effectively, you're gonna keep on mashing and keep on complaining that it's "not working right?"

 

Read my post again, then point out where I'm being unreasonable. Is my post so HARD to understand ? Rocket science ? I left math out, for the sake of people who feel uncomfortable with numbers.

 

You arguments are completely invalid in PVP. While questing ? sure, no problem I can choose when to attack, but in PVP ? Do you hear yourself ?

[Paganini]

Ok. So long as you accept that:

 

"Not like Wow =/= broken"

 

 

ps. if I'm having no problem firing off attack after attack with literally no delay between whatsoever, then how comes I'm the "unaware" one, and the fumblers are somehow 'on to something?'

 

 

DISCLAIMER: the above post refers only to the BH Merc, as it's the only class I've played

 

 

 

You didn't read the OP, did you?

[HoneyBoy]

Ok.... so mashing buttons is half of what's jacking up you people's animations/attacks... and instead of just stopping it and keying effectively, you're gonna keep on mashing and keep on complaining that it's "not working right?"

 

 

Do you drop a glass of water, then complain that the floor is wet?

 

 

It seems to be coming more and more apparent: much of this has nothing to do with anything being broken per se; it has everything to do with a lot of people just not liking this system.

 

 

 

 

Mashing buttons should have no adverse effect whatsoever if the system was perfect because it would look like this:

 

1)Instant Ability 1

2)Global Cooldown

3)Instant Ability 2

4)Global Cooldown

5)Cast Ability 3

6)Cast Time+Global Cooldown consecutively

 

 

Instead in practice it looks like this

 

1)Instant Ability 1

2)Global Cooldown

3)Wait for animation to finish

4)Instant Ability 2

5)Global Cooldown

6)Cast Ability 3

7)Cast Time+Global Cooldown consecutively

9)Wait for cast animtion to finish after cast bar is complete

 

What is the purpose of the GCD and cast bars if they aren't an accurate metric of when my ability is finished and I can begin using another? I thought the whole point of no auto-attack was to make the combat system MORE FLUID?

Edited December 28, 2011 by HoneyBoy

[Khoranth]

I am a Jedi Sage and I do NOT experience this problem. Feskitt is right, you cannot spam, you are only working against the combat mechanic the more you do.

 

I participated in SEVERAL PvP warzones, and whenever someone tried to CQC me, I unleashed a Force Wave and created more distance by running backwards. Don't try to force it while you;re in the middle of an animation, just be patient, plan out your moves, and then execute them.

 

When melee attack me and stun me, i start pressing my force wave button so as soon as the stun ends, i knocke them away.

 

Maybe you can decipher the tiny debuff icons, but i cannot, the debuff icons are tiny and all mesh together, and i cannot tell what is a stun or when it leaves, so I have only one option, press my forcewave hotkey so it will go off as soon as the stun on me wears off.

 

And why should pressing an ability more then once completely ruin the response time and cause massive lag? what kind of monkeys did they have writing the code for combat?

 

Or what is more likely,it really feels like the just copied the warhammer combat code and lumped it into the game.

[myrmexaw]

Ok.... so mashing buttons is half of what's jacking up you people's animations/attacks... and instead of just stopping it and keying effectively, you're gonna keep on mashing and keep on complaining that it's "not working right?"

 

 

Do you drop a glass of water, then complain that the floor is wet?

 

 

It seems to be coming more and more apparent: much of this has nothing to do with anything being broken per se; it has everything to do with a lot of people just not liking this system.

 

 

 

 

this has nothing to do with mashing or even lag and is very simple to test , roll a trooper and use mortar volley , the cast bar will be over but no third mortar yet , then you can move freely while the last lob of mortar will appear out of nowhere and do his damage while you are running around with a " portable mortar "

[Elog]

That is NOT HOW WOW DOES IT.

 

This is how WoW does it.

 

0.0 P1 starts cast, at this point his casting animation starts, however not his cast bar (take note!)

0.75 This is when the server gets his ability, server starts casting

0.150 P2 sees the cast starting

0.150 P1 gets the reply from server, casting bar starts

0.575 Spell fires server side

0.650 Spell fires on P1 and P2's screen.

 

Server still allows interrupts between 0.575 and 0.650

 

Sorry - you are right. The animation is hence dragged out on your screen even when you are not casting. The interrupt is allowed to happen up to 400ms after the server has actually acknowledged that the spell has been cast as long as the interrupt is legit on-screen from the player doing it. The interrupt can hence happen after you thought you cast the spell if you are on low latency yourself.

 

Just checked the real number and the slush fund is 400ms in WoW and not my believed number of 500ms as before.