Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[MaceTowani]

So far it seems the argument has boiled down to two sides:

 

The first saying the combat system isn't as fluid as the GCD and UI lead you to believe.

 

The other saying "Just play the game" "Learn to adapt to this broken system" and "At least it's fair for everyone then!"

 

Here are the REAL two sides.

 

1)OMG IT DOESN'T INSTA-CAST LIKE WOW, WHAT DO WE DO?! THE GAME IS OVER IT'S DEAD UNLESS YOU FIXZ NAO. DO IT RIGHT NOW!

 

2)We have not experienced this problem because we found that if you do "this, this and then that" we have also found that it must be the mechanics of the game in which BioWare mapped out and one we have adapted to.

[Monkertrol]

this whole "it's that way for everyone, so it's fair!" argument is way off. the different classes have different animations, even the mirrors have different animation times for the mirrored abilities.

[Lionerd]

I like the game ... but im a healer and most time i dont even have a cast bar, istant cast like shields took like 2 sec to be effective..

 

add to this that i dont see the real health of other players on ui...

 

Im only getting nervous when try to do pvp or heal in group... i just immagine when i start to do operation......

 

..for thoos that say that is an low rig problem ... Santa bring me an aurora alienware and i have some problem as my laptop.

[fallenvirtues]

GUYS!!! All this arguing is not needed...The combat system does not need to be changed...Stop wit all that

 

The problem people are experiencing is a slight delay when the hit the button before the animation actually starts which is throwing the timing off an making the animation carry on longer then the GCD

 

The UI needs to be fixed so that the attacks happen instantly and the animations dont throw things out of time...And some experience nothing happening at all when they hit the button...BW should be able to fix this if you just give them a little patience...Im sure they are already working on it

 

Now as far as instant attacks...They re instant because they need no casting time...Thats the only thing that really makes them instant besides the abilities that require no animation what so ever...That doesnt mean its broken, its just a different take on instant attacks

 

No need for all of you to be at each others throats here....With the importance of animations, yes it will play differently then WOW even though its extremely similar...But once the UI's response time is fixed, this will make SWTOR's take on combat that much more enjoyable...

 

I know everyone wants/thinks SWTOR should be just as good WOW 2011 and not 2004 but no matter what the product and when it came out, it will ALWAYS have flaws when its first released...

 

Lets look at the auto industry...When a new car comes out it is always plagued with recalls its first year on the market...Doesnt make it a bad car, it just means they figured out some problems once thousands and thousands where on the road and the problems started to arise on a mass scale...But they always get fixed...Relax and give BW a little bit of time before you hop ship

[Paganini]

Smooth and responsive? No it wasn't, it lagged like balls and sucked horribly. Have you never been to Tarren Mill / Southshore battles? Yeah that **** was smooth like the insides of a cement truck.

 

Also; it looked terrible. 60% of your skills did the same animations. The dodges and parries never connected. You probably don't remember using charge and doing zig-zags all over the bugged terrain.

 

I bet you never tried to blink onto a bridge either.

 

Forget having a tiny rock between your location and the blink target.

 

Yeah, WoW is the damn best thing since sliced bread.

 

 

Don't you love watching those people wall-walking their way up to the top of the Warsong flagroom and being immune to attacks? Man that **** was the bomb, almost makes me want to resub.

 

 

Do you idiots not notice how I'm posting on a SWTOR forum and not a WOW one? I think apart from the combat delay and animation lag TOR is a superior game. Stop trying to shout me down by simply connecting something I say to WoW and then going on your typical WoW bashing circle jerk.

 

There's a difference between the server not being able to handle massive open world PvP and the game not letting people use their abilities based off of the GCD.

 

I remember the charge and blink bugs very well actually, I spent hundreds of days on my warriors in vanilla WoW and my most recent character was a Mage. I remember a massive list of bugs from WoW, but I'll take any number of minor and inconvenient bugs over a broken combat system.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Paganini

[Isende]

I am a healer and I have NO such problems. I anticipate when the health drops with careful planning and strategy instead of panic healing and etc. None of my companions or party mates ever fall below half-health(unless their getting swarmed, but I always anticipate it before it happens and give them a complimentary heal then another one directly after anticipating that their health will fall fast aggroing two-three strong/elite enemies).

 

ah, hats off to you then, you're obviously a FAR superior healer to me.

[Xzenorath]

Yes, I watched it, I made it. I already had to do this for someone 30 minutes ago.

 

Riposte (the ability I'm trying to use)

http://www.torhead.com/ability/2Zt5kfR

 

It does not respect the global cooldown, and therefore should be usable during a global cooldown.

 

And as I replied, it's either a lag spike or a bug.

 

Either way, it'll be fixed.

[AveryD]

YES! Finally someone has explained what I was experiencing and couldn't understand. When I've found myself in situations where I've inadvertently pulled extra mobs, it's crucial to be able to switch targets and interrupt a spell or get a shot off quickly. And more than once I've died while repeatedly mashing a button and nothing is happening. This is especially punishing in flashpoints or Heroics.

 

The OP explained what I was seeing perfectly. My character was finishing up some other animation, while I'm trying to hit another ability and the game doesn't register it until my character is done doing the previous animation, even though the damage portion of what s/he was doing already completed.

 

What I think is especially notable about this is that it's noticeable and game-impacting even while doing mundane things like questing or flashpoints. It definitely detracts from my fun a bit when I watch my character die while I'm repeatedly mashing a life-saving button that never activates, because she needs to do....just....one....more....flourish.

 

I say this is especially notable because it affects EVERYONE, not just hardcore players. And if it's frustrating while leveling, I'm sure it'll be downright aggravating during endgame raids. "Sorry that I couldn't get off that spell-interrupt on The Boss® to protect our healer, but I still had one more arm swing to complete first."

[Paganini]

And as I replied, it's either a lag spike or a bug.

 

Either way, it'll be fixed.

 

What makes you think it'll be fixed? Has Bioware said something about this I should be aware of?

[MaceTowani]

ah, hats off to you then, you're obviously a FAR superior healer to me.

 

I learned to adapt. You can too. It takes time, I know, but it's well worth it.

 

Funny thing is, I don't really like healing, but it seems I'm a natural at it.

 

Go figure.

Edited December 28, 2011 by MaceTowani

[Lusiferz]

So far it seems the argument has boiled down to two sides:

 

The first saying the combat system isn't as fluid as the GCD and UI lead you to believe.

 

The other saying "Just play the game" "Learn to adapt to this broken system" and "At least it's fair for everyone then!"

 

No they say that the game is not broken and you must learn to play.

We can just ask them kindly to make a video and show us how they slow press buttons and be top players in this game.

 

ps:i heard that some people can mouse click abilities and be always first at damage and healing.Wooooow i wish i had those skills

[Devolution]

And as I replied, it's either a lag spike or a bug.

 

Either way, it'll be fixed.

 

I agree, I'm just defending myself against someone trying to discredit my example.

[Xzenorath]

Do you idiots not notice how I'm posting on a SWTOR forum and not a WOW one? I think apart from the combat delay and animation lag TOR is a superior game. Stop trying to shout me down by simply connecting something I say to WoW and then going on your typical WoW bashing circle jerk.

 

There's a difference between the server not being able to handle massive open world PvP and the game not letting people use their abilities based off of the GCD.

 

I remember the charge and blink bugs very well actually, I spent hundreds of days on my warriors in vanilla WoW and my most recent character was a Mage. I remember a massive list of bugs from WoW, but I'll take any number of minor and inconvenient bugs over a broken combat system.

 

Dude, YOU said "WOW WAS SMOOTH ON DAY 1"

 

What the ****.

[Zakumene]

Someone please explain why this even matters. Half of the time you're resource capped/limited.

 

Awesome you just chained 2 abilities in a row back to back - now you have no rage for 5-10 seconds. What did you accomplish?

[Rainlight]

Wow, you people defending this OBVIOUS DEFICIENCY in the game are honestly ridiculous.

 

"It just came out" isn't an excuse.

"Go back to wow" isn't an excuse.

 

All other manner of contrite crap like "it saves bandwidth" or "you're just playing wrong" isn't an excuse.

 

I would suggest you BioDrones actually go play the game -- PROPERLY -- and try to hit your interrupt instant when it's required. You know, the button you never use? It's the one that stops casts. (I KNOW you people don't use it, because I'm the one that has to heal AND interrupt a boss ability because noone else will).

 

You'll notice that it's NOT instant, and it won't even cast until your animation finishes. Even if you're actually not casting anything.

 

 

IDK how this can be any more clear. The issue is self-evident if you're at all competent at playing a modern MMO. Maybe that's the problem.

 

 

*edit*

***, like 100 pages of this thread just disappeared. lol. I posted on 153 -- where'd it all go?

Edited December 28, 2011 by Rainlight

[Unseenhands]

Fallenvirtues might be on to something - the idea that the initial lag is creating the "longer than cast bar" animation. Wonder if that's server/client issue, coding, or something else...

 

Also, the Riposte example is interesting because the CD of Riposte starts after he uses it. But the animation doesn't show Riposte. PROBLEM IS: we don't have a combat log to say whether the riposte did work even if it's animation was covered by the skill already in use (which I think, both should still connect. Otherwise, put riposte on the GCD -- but don't, cause I like that ability

[Ibuki]

Yes, I watched it, I made it. I already had to do this for someone 30 minutes ago.

 

Riposte (the ability I'm trying to use)

http://www.torhead.com/ability/2Zt5kfR

 

It does not respect the global cooldown, and therefore should be usable during a global cooldown.

 

Yes I'm playing a Jedi Sentinel and Riposte is buggy as hell. If you kill an enemy with it your whole UI freezes for a second or two. Same goes for kick.

 

Whoever says the combat system is working as intended has no clue what we're talking about or is just trolling.

[FINALBOSS]

I swear to god...I'm so tired of spamming Maul (backstab) which is already gimped to begin with, only to have my guy stutter the animation about 5 times before finally going through with it. It's really terrible.

[Paganini]

Dude, YOU said "WOW WAS SMOOTH ON DAY 1"

 

What the ****.

 

And YOU said

Yes, if you expect the game to run as smoothly as a game that's been out 7 years. If you don't understand this, then I feel sorry for you.

 

Get to grips with the fact that an MMO that just launches will have bugs and issues and not everything will be smooth.

 

You were implying it is normal/acceptable/predictable for an MMO to be unresponsive on day one.

 

I was calling you out on your bull$hit

 

context is everything pal

[MaceTowani]

No they say that the game is not broken and you must learn to play.

We can just ask them kindly to make a video and show us how they slow press buttons and be top players in this game.

 

ps:i heard that some people can mouse click abilities and be always first at damage and healing.Wooooow i wish i had those skills

 

No mouse-clicking is required if you know where are skills are. And if you learn to adapt instead of wishing the game was like WoW.

[liquidken]

Played WoW until SWTOR came out.

 

I should have clarified I guess. I've already explained. It's my fault, it sounded bad the way I said it.

 

 

 

Oh yeah there is merit to making a game that way it's just SWTOR isn't made that way. I'm personally glad.

 

My Pentium 4 machine, running SWTOR just fine tyvm, begs to disagree. Yea the minimum spec is a 2.0 ghz dual core or whatever, but an overclocked (& hypterthreaded to fake the dual core thing) Pentium 4 can run this game just fine.

 

And graphically, SWTOR runs on a freakin' INTEL Integrated crap card. So to say that SWTOR "isn't made that way" is pure fallacy. Bioware smartly took that page directly out of Blizzard's playbook & made SWTOR able to run on old computers cuz doing so maximizes it's potential userbase. (hell, Age of Conan requires beefier hardware than SWTOR and look how far that game got...)

[fallenvirtues]

No they say that the game is not broken and you must learn to play.

We can just ask them kindly to make a video and show us how they slow press buttons and be top players in this game.

 

ps:i heard that some people can mouse click abilities and be always first at damage and healing.Wooooow i wish i had those skills

 

Ummm to play devils advocate, I use to click during raids/instances SOMETIMES (cause I was being lazy usually) and would always be in the top 3 if not number 1 in a very successful WOW raiding guild in TBC and WotLK...

 

What you getting at?

[Rahi]

I like the 5 or what trolls here, that keep posting.

Their "solutions" are hilarious!

[Zakumene]

this whole "it's that way for everyone, so it's fair!" argument is way off. the different classes have different animations, even the mirrors have different animation times for the mirrored abilities.

 

This may be the most valid argument I've seen in this thread. It should at least be consistent with in a mirrored class. (if its true)

Edited December 28, 2011 by Zakumene

[Isende]

YES! Finally someone has explained what I was experiencing and couldn't understand. When I've found myself in situations where I've inadvertently pulled extra mobs, it's crucial to be able to switch targets and interrupt a spell or get a shot off quickly. And more than once I've died while repeatedly mashing a button and nothing is happening. This is especially punishing in flashpoints or Heroics.

 

The OP explained what I was seeing perfectly. My character was finishing up some other animation, while I'm trying to hit another ability and the game doesn't register it until my character is done doing the previous animation, even though the damage portion of what s/he was doing already completed.

 

What I think is especially notable about this is that it's noticeable and game-impacting even while doing mundane things like questing or flashpoints. It definitely detracts from my fun a bit when I watch my character die while I'm repeatedly mashing a life-saving button that never activates, because she needs to do....just....one....more....flourish.

 

I say this is especially notable because it affects EVERYONE, not just hardcore players. And if it's frustrating while leveling, I'm sure it'll be downright aggravating during endgame raids. "Sorry that I couldn't get off that spell-interrupt on The Boss® to protect our healer, but I still had one more arm swing to complete first."

 

i guess i SHOULD mention there is kinda a work around for this -- if you jump or move forward that breaks the animation. i've had to do that on my knight tank, who ends up in a channeled 2.5 sec spell and has her target jump or otherwise move out of her range. can do NOTHING until the animation completes -- unless i jump or move forward. neither of these are wholly desirable options, as they still add an element of time to something i need to handle RIGHT NOW, but it is doable, i actually figured it out playing my smuggler, on some of her skills.