Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Serentos]

To keep this post on topic though, if Bioware doesn't pop in their heads into this thread with as much as a yellow "." (dot) to simply acknowledge the existence of this thread of over 300 pages, 3,000 replies, 150,000 views over the next 24 hours I will be sorely let down by a company who I regarded highly as well as put my trust into.

 

How much time, how much effort goes into a Developer simply posting something like "Hey guys, we're here, we see It. Carry on"? I mean no-one expects you to corner yourself with dates and gameplans or explanations... But to ignore something this big is simply mind boggling.

 

I cannot help but feel as though:

 

A) They simply dont care whatsoever. As in, amount of not giving a **** is only comparable to Dark Matter in the universe.

 

B) They believe themselves too important, too busy and cannot be bothered to post a simple 2 second "hello" in a thread that has garnered this much "press". Perhaps if we took the discussio to reddit forums?

 

C) they don't want to say anything at all until they have worked everything out behind the scenes, how to fix it, how to sweep the issue under the rug, how to market other things... consulting PR etc. and then at some point make a grand blog like post....

 

 

All of the above are simply poorest of the poor handling of your own playerbase. I am sorry to say but I am losing the trust in you and Blizzard has never had me doubting their own "care" for their game this much. If there would be an equivalent of this magnitude on the WoW forums, you better believe Ghostcrawler would be in there...

 

Bioware's past community communications had a bad trackrecord from Garrus' face in Mass Effect 1 (PC) through Dragon Ages Modding Tools to now, SW:TOR Responsiveness...

 

 

I fully expect this post deleted but I do plan on a write up on this Communications Issue for another thread.

 

ummm so i was scrolling thro the notes and dude on page123 a bioware dude replyed also do you have a youtube or website because you seem smart and kewl and i would like to sub

[samdbtto]

ummm so i was scrolling thro the notes and dude on page123 a bioware dude replyed also do you have a youtube or website because you seem smart and kewl and i would like to sub

 

this is one of those posts that makes in IRL lol

[aureliastarr]

This issue is under active investigation.

 

The complication is that there are actually a number of different issues with very different causes and potential resolutions lumped together in this thread.

 

All we can say for now is 'we are actively working on the topic of character responsiveness'.

 

YES! /successkid

 

A response and from the lead combat designer no less. I bet things will get better. Maybe not immediate with one patch... but things will get better at least through successive patches.

[Korrigan]

However, "NOTHING" is more important that Gameplay and Responsiveness/Feeling is the most important part of Gameplay.

In your opinion only. Remember that, padawan. ONLY in your opinion.

In NO way I authorize you to write/speak in my name.

 

Drop your arrogance now that a Bioware official answered. Seriously, this is getting old.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Korrigan

[Xcore]

ummm so i was scrolling thro the notes and dude on page123 a bioware dude replyed also do you have a youtube or website because you seem smart and kewl and i would like to sub

 

He smuggled his post after I said all that... perhaps for that very reason, his post did not appear on Page 123 until the thread was at Page 140 already.

[aureliastarr]

This issue is under active investigation.

 

The complication is that there are actually a number of different issues with very different causes and potential resolutions lumped together in this thread.

 

All we can say for now is 'we are actively working on the topic of character responsiveness'.

 

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

AND BY THE FrEaKiNg WAY!

 

Not to pull the "We told you so" card or anything....

 

but......

 

For all of you people... yes all of you who were sitting there smug acting behaving like this game was flawless....

 

The guy who designed the combat system... who works for Bioware... who believes in his work and his game more than YOU... HE says that there is an issue... a "number of different issues" with potential resolutions.... so.... what now?

 

Oh yeah....

 

We told you so.

[Ezzem]

I'm fearing that they will look into specific abilites, and not the general feeling.

 

The combat needs the "snappyness" factor.

 

Its like i sai din another thread,

Players wants to play as fast as the game lets you.

But here it is more like that the game lets you play faster than it can handle.

[Xcore]

In your opinion only. Remember that, padawan. ONLY in your opinion.

In NO way I authorize you to write/speak in my name.

 

Drop your arrogance now that a Bioware official answered. Seriously, this is getting old.

 

No, simply put "no"... get out, you have nothing to say here. My arrogance, ego, ignorance, intelligence or any other personality quality or fault is neither diminished nor increased by a Developer Posting.

 

What I will say is that you're wrong, 3,970 replies and 174,191 views disagree with you. I am absolutely, smugly, arrogantly and egotistically proclaiming that "Gameplay" IS the MOST important aspect of any action based MMO.

 

You have no place in this discussion.

[Rylorn]

Responsiveness is my #1 issue with the game. I would trade any amount of other content for this to be fixed. Only one MMO that I've played has ever nailed this issue, and that is WoW.

[UlricOrthious]

I have noticed the same isues with the combat systems. Its frutrating when you're in the middle of a fight and you're ability you selected delays more than the NPC's abilities. No, its not the user. Not this time.

[aureliastarr]

Just as an aside:

LotRO, also a promising project once, also had this issue from the beginning:

long-winded combat animations and no direct control over your character.

It was a game where you watched your character doing sth. rather than actually doing sth.

 

Turbine realized that this was a core problem and changed it, made "instant" abilities truly instant or "immediate" as they then phrased it.

 

These immediate skills/abilities interrupt every on-going animation and acts out the ability at the BEGINNING of its animation.

Combat felt much smoother, directer than before but still nothing like WoW, which is really a shame since both LotRO and TOR have much more potential story-wise than WoW but nothing beats WoW's gameplay smoothness/direct responsiveness at the moment (at least nothing I have played and I play A LOT).

 

Coming from someone that canncelled WoW and doesn't want to go back to a world of Pandas (even though Chuck Norris almost had me going back .

 

Yep ... I know what you are talking about. You are exactly right....

 

I mean just to add some hyperbole though, I always really hated WoWs story. It was just stupid and weird and god awful to me. I don't know if it is just because I never watched movies of it as a kid or read books about it as a kid... but LOTRO and SW both are much more rich and capable of bringing the story to the role... having the rich fulfilling lore that....

 

 

Well it's like cartoons... some cartoons they actually created after they had an idea for action heroes and it was to turn a profit. WoW always seemed like... "EH we have this Warcraft and Warcraft II let's cram as much crappy stories and lore as we can in and make an MMO." Whereas Lotro and SW seemed like "Here is this rich and great lore and universe... let's extend it and let people become a part of it."

 

The big problem, though.... was and is the responsiveness of the actual game.

[Froth]

In your opinion only. Remember that, padawan. ONLY in your opinion.

In NO way I authorize you to write/speak in my name.

 

Drop your arrogance now that a Bioware official answered. Seriously, this is getting old.

 

I agree with him and want him to keep it up. Just leave the thread.

[poryan]

In your opinion only. Remember that, padawan. ONLY in your opinion.

In NO way I authorize you to write/speak in my name.

 

Drop your arrogance now that a Bioware official answered. Seriously, this is getting old.

 

Dont come to the topic if you are so bothered, and its not just his opinion, its A LOT of ours. This is not even the first post about this, there have been several, one of major note reaching 250 pages before it was moved and restarted.

[shojj]

In your opinion only. Remember that, padawan. ONLY in your opinion.

In NO way I authorize you to write/speak in my name.

 

Drop your arrogance now that a Bioware official answered. Seriously, this is getting old.

 

[veevito]

Yes, someone posted this far back in the first thread I believe and it was defended by the BDF (Bioware Defence Force) fervently for its amazing realism...

 

I understand your frustrations xcore, but calling people names doesn't help you.

 

You've received alot of support and some that have questioned it did so respectfully. I myself have questioned it and come to realize that is does exist, yet at the same time also realize that it isn't universal across all abilities. I've posted as such with my own findings.

 

By all means whatever issue is at hand here should be addressed. And also, out of objectivity, you should acknowledge that it really isn't universal in all abilties. You have not done that, that i've seen. Instead insisting that everyone who says so just isn't good enough to notice.

 

I haven't seen you tell those that insist animations can't be interrupted, that they can indeed be interrupted by some abilities. Which adds to the disparate issues here and the overall confusion.

 

But, if someone, like myself, posts findings that contradict anothers it doesn't mean I am some sort of biodrone or fanboy.

 

I've criticized alot about this game and will continue to do so. However, this issue is a bit more complex than you and others seem to allude to.

 

I've had certain abilities interrupt animations every time, others don't. By design or by bug that could use some clarification. I've healed on my sage where even though I move right after the cast bar completes and it says "interrupted", the heal still lands. Contrary to what some have posted.

 

These experiences aren't a figment of my imagination nor are they of yours. We're both right. It actually proves that some "biodrones" are not that at all. They actually are having very different experiences than you and others or are at least trying to get more specific with regards to abilities. (eg. this ability doesn't interrrupt animation, but this one does rather than the "fix it I can't do anything!!!1" posts)

 

That is as important to this issue as anything if a solution is to be found.

[Scheyer]

It's like I get frustrated every time I mount up and the cast says its done and I go and its not...

[jeinasindorei]

Then they should change the GCD timer to match the animation that is going, and they should code in something to prevent button presses before the animation ends from bugging out your character and lagging you out.

 

perhaps a 'ability not ready yet' message.

 

And if you are not allowed to use off the GCD abilities during an animation, then remove off the GCD abilties, that is an obvious problem.

 

then bam, problem solved.

 

Except you can. For example:

 

On my powertech, if I use Rocket Punch as an enemy begins to cast something, I can use my Quell (interrupt) while my BH is in the air and the ability gets interrupted as soon as I use the ability. I then finish the Rocket Punch animation and the Quell animation goes off, a good second to second and a half after the ability has been used (which looks really dumb).

[Xcore]

I understand your frustrations xcore, but calling people names doesn't help you.

 

You've received alot of support and some that have questioned it did so respectfully. I myself have questioned it and come to realize that is does exist, yet at the same time also realize that it isn't universal across all abilities. I've posted as such with my own findings.

 

By all means whatever issue is at hand here should be addressed. And also, out of objectivity, you should acknowledge that it really isn't universal in all abilties. You have not done that, that i've seen. Instead insisting that everyone who says so just isn't good enough to notice.

 

I haven't seen you tell those that insist animations can't be interrupted, that they can indeed be interrupted by some abilities. Which adds to the disparate issues here and the overall confusion.

 

But, if someone, like myself, posts findings that contradict anothers it doesn't mean I am some sort of biodrone or fanboy.

 

I've criticized alot about this game and will continue to do so. However, this issue is a bit more complex than you and others seem to allude to.

 

I've had certain abilities interrupt animations every time, others don't. By design or by bug that could use some clarification. I've healed on my sage where even though I move right after the cast bar completes and it says "interrupted", the heal still lands. Contrary to what some have posted.

 

These experiences aren't a figment of my imagination nor are they of yours. We're both right. It actually proves that some "biodrones" are not that at all. They actually are having very different experiences than you and others or are at least trying to get more specific with regards to abilities. (eg. this ability doesn't interrrupt animation, but this one does rather than the "fix it I can't do anything!!!1" posts)

 

That is as important to this issue as anything if a solution is to be found.

 

I am by no means calling all and everyone a Biodrone or labelling them part of the BDF but some I do, as it is painfully obvious.

 

You, I don't believe I have labelled anything like that and this post of yours does raise some discussion worthy elements. However, I disagree with your main statement. It isn't that "some" interrupts actually interrupt and others don't, in fact "all" interrupts do the job just fine. The issue arises through the chaining of animations, some animations have less of an issue with it than others and thus its less noticeable than others.

 

So, again... I am by no means at all over-simplifying this very complex issue (in fact a few pages back I list some of the core issues that I believe contribute to the overall problem) and I think that I have a firm grasp on the faultlines. I am not really sure of a solution as it does require some brainstorming with Coding and Net-Coding Professionals and probably Animation Designers.

 

What I would like you to really understand, this is "not an isolated problem", EVERYONE has it equally. You mention that "some" abilities have it and some do not -- this is my point of contention. All abilities have it as it is part of the Combat Mechanics within the Coding and Game itself. However, on some abilities and ability chains (this is important the chaining) it is less noticeable (or not at all).

 

Once again, the first step to the solution is to recognize that this is not isolated, its not that poor ol' Xcore and a few hundred people have this issue and millions do not.

 

Secondly, its important to recognize that it is not that Sith Inquisitor's have it and Bounty Hunters do not. Everyone does, the only note that needs to be made is that "some" abilities and ability chains mask the issue better than others.

 

 

I hope this is some food for thought and not too offensive. Also I will reiterate, I will never be shy to call a spade a spade or a Biodrone a Biodrone. At the same time I will never "deliberately" unfairly speak against someone who opposes my opinions or points of view.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Xcore

[Halacs]

I still cant belive after this topic was cloned by the fourum managers, with all the different people comming in here saying they have the same problem and thgouht it was something else, that folks still think it's all in our heads or our hardware.

[veevito]

I am by no means calling all and everyone a Biodrone or labelling them part of the BDF but some I do, as it is painfully obvious.

 

You, I don't believe I have labelled anything like that and this post of yours does raise some discussion worthy elements. However, I disagree with your main statement. It isn't that "some" interrupts actually interrupt and others don't, in fact "all" interrupts do the job just fine. The issue arises through the chaining of animations, some animations have less of an issue with it than others and thus its less noticeable than others.

 

So, again... I am by no means at all over-simplifying this very complex issue (in fact a few pages back I list some of the core issues that I believe contribute to the overall problem) and I think that I have a firm grasp on the faultlines. I am not really sure of a solution as it does require some brainstorming with Coding and Net-Coding Professionals and probably Animation Designers.

 

What I would like you to really understand, this is "not an isolated problem", EVERYONE has it equally. You mention that "some" abilities have it and some do not -- this is my point of contention. All abilities have it as it is part of the Combat Mechanics within the Coding and Game itself. However, on some abilities and ability chains (this is important the chaining) it is less noticeable (or not at all).

 

Once again, the first step to the solution is to recognize that this is not isolated, its not that poor ol' Xcore and a few hundred people have this issue and millions do not.

 

Secondly, its important to recognize that it is not that Sith Inquisitor's have it and Bounty Hunters do not. Everyone does, the only note that needs to be made is that "some" abilities and ability chains mask the issue better than others.

 

 

I hope this is some food for thought and not too offensive. Also I will reiterate, I will never be shy to call a spade a spade or a Biodrone a Biodrone. At the same time I will never "deliberately" unfairly speak against someone who opposes my opinions or points of view.

 

Understood about the chaining issue. Especially considering that, unless any of us have played all classes and all skils, we will all have the different perceptions based on what we've played.

 

I think you just outlined why this thread is in bizarro land to some degree. I don't envy the BW devs who are trying to figure out exactly what the heck everyone here is talking about when, as you say, there seem to be many issues at hand. All of them trying to be shoehorned into one "issue".

 

My main issue with this thread however is that, while alot of good info has been given, there are plenty of posts that seem to be flat out wrong. Such as people implying that charged burst is uninterruptable simply because thermal grenade wont do it. Or a healing spell not landing if you move right as the cast bar completes and it says "interrupted".

 

In other words, if someone posts a video showing a heal being cast that doesn't land when they move as the bar completes with "interrupted", but I don't experience that ever (and my heals always land even after i move and get the interrupted message), how can that be considered a universal problem for everyone? Or cast bars disappearing when they never do for me?

 

It would be worthwhile to note that those who chime in with "yes, my skills don't work, BIG problem here" are as useless to this discussion as those who chime in with "nothing to see here, it works great". Without detailed examples that others can then try to duplicate, they both are useless yet you tell one type of poster to get out, while letting others who /sign your topic go on spreading half truths at times.

 

I'm not particularly shy about posting my opinion either. I certainly hope this gets worked out while preserving the design intent of the game.

Edited December 30, 2011 by veevito

[Arkimor]

This was on the third page. Bumping it back to the first, as this is one of the biggest issues with the game right now.

[Truga]

This issue is under active investigation.

 

The complication is that there are actually a number of different issues with very different causes and potential resolutions lumped together in this thread.

 

All we can say for now is 'we are actively working on the topic of character responsiveness'.

 

Woopdeedoo. If someone is looking for this it's on page 123 btw.

[Bob-ombaFett]

I think I found a good example of how I feel while PvPing with the current situation of character responsiveness.

 

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/162192_o.gif

[Xcore]

Understood about the chaining issue. Especially considering that, unless any of us have played all classes and all skils, we will all have the different perceptions based on what we've played.

 

I think you just outlined why this thread is in bizarro land to some degree. I don't envy the BW devs who are trying to figure out exactly what the heck everyone here is talking about when, as you say, there seem to be many issues at hand. All of them trying to be shoehorned into one "issue".

 

My main issue with this thread however is that, while alot of good info has been given, there are plenty of posts that seem to be flat out wrong. Such as people implying that charged burst is uninterruptable simply because thermal grenade wont do it. Or a healing spell not landing if you move right as the cast bar completes and it says "interrupted".

 

In other words, if someone posts a video showing a heal being cast that doesn't land when they move as the bar completes with "interrupted", but I don't experience that ever (and my heals always land even after i move and get the interrupted message), how can that be considered a universal problem for everyone? Or cast bars disappearing when they never do for me?

 

It would be worthwhile to note that those who chime in with "yes, my skills don't work, BIG problem here" are as useless to this discussion as those who chime in with "nothing to see here, it works great". Without detailed examples, they both are useless yet you tell one type of poster to get out, while letting others who /sign your topic go on spreading half truths at times.

 

I'm not particularly shy about posting my opinion either. I certainly hope this gets worked out while preserving the design intent of the game.

 

The video that shows the heal/movement is perfect -- it shows exactly what is meant with responsiveness. Look at how long it takes after the cast is completed for the heal to land... its quite "ridiculous".

 

I have no idea why you are arguing these facts, you come off as very contrarian to me. There is nothing difficult to understand here, also, yes it is many issues culminating into "one" definable as unresponsive combat system... there is also nothing difficult about this (to understand), to fix, sure is...

 

Very, very, very important to understand -- if "you" don't experience something that is being discussed here in this thread or seen in a video that "does not" mean that it is not a correct issue. Over the course of this thread we have collectively proven the unresponsive nature of the combat system. And we have give discernible details, which Bioware/Georg should have no problem understanding or deciphering (I would be more than willing to help if desired).

 

There are not that many posts at all that are flat out wrong, if there are -- please point them out instead of making this blanket statement as I can't help in that case.

[Xcore]

I think I found a good example of how I feel while PvPing with the current situation of character responsiveness.

 

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/162192_o.gif

 

Yes, this is a very accurate description -- much "animation", little "control"....