I still don't think it hastens anyone out the door since a "casual" would still have months of time to see the story. Months that they might not have spent in the game. Even with the boost, it seems like you think that a casual would blow through multiple class stories. I've seen that alot...Because a person who plays 6 plus hours a day would cap means everyone would. Not even close. A contradiction there. If you'd cap in days with the boost you are beyond the target and have nothing to worry about. Those are experienced players looking to cap alts. But, If it hastens others out the door, then they had no intention of being a part of your group anyway. That's part of what is missed here. Forcing group or repetitious side content does nothing to make for an enjoyable experience for anyone., not groupers or those who are not. Certainly there should be great group content, but if group content relies on forcing people into it, then it is no longer beneficial to anyone and the game suffers. Let people gravitate to what they enjoy. Legacy 50 would negate anyone interested in such a perk. Except hardcore players who, if they have played enough to get it, already know how to play and are simply looking for a fast route for alts.

You are one of the more level headed people in this thread. Most of it is vulgar "my way or the highway" mentality. Players who level characters with the intent to use them in ops are going to learn them. Period. So, there is no problem of L2P there. Those who are making alts with 12x simply to see the story in SP mode probably never intended to do endgame with them. So, no loss to endgamers there. And if someone decides to go further after the story is done, then they will learn from either themselves or those willing to teach. It's not like it's rocket science and EDIT: slow leveling and simple side quests make a great player. As to the notion that it would lead to players leaving...well, I don't agree. It's just as likely for a player who wants to play those stories through to leave as it is for an artificial grind to make them stay. I'd also like to say, regarding the notion of casuals being more transitory, is hogwash in my experience. Hardcore raiders are notorious for burning through content and leaving or mmo hopping until the next xpak/raid addition to whatever game it is that is popular. They aren't loyal at all, in fact they seem to be the most disloyal players that i've seen. Compared to those who enjoy the world they are playing in. As opposed to those who enjoy not the world, but whatever private instance they can hide themselves in...in a massively multiplayer game. Yeah they like to throw that around as if hiding in a 12 man private instance is massive in any way. I think that 12x was a manifestation of a goal of theirs for awhile. They already had the ground laid with the legacy perks. They probably just wanted to see how popular it was and if it was viable for those who have, since launch, wanted a way to play through class stories exclusively. It will be back, in some form. I like it.

Maps aren't zoomable with the mouse wheel. That magnifying glass is God awful. No import/universal keybindings.

breasts are fine. Heads would explode if they implemented breast physics.

True, that's why I find it an interesting statement. It seems like either a new philosophy or an old one brought back to life. Although, as someone involved in product development myself, not software but mechanical, I find it hard to believe that 7 years would yield nothing noteworthy. Granted, 7 years in computer game time is like dog years. You just can't develop that long without suffering in tech and other areas. I've had projects going on for 1 1/2 - 2 years and I thought it was ridiculous. Such a long cycle only to kill it seems odd. Normally, you see it way before then. There had to be something there...and they just didn't want to deal with another mmo... Incompetent odd? creatively odd? who knows. But it is odd. That's a long time to actively work on something only to cancel it. That's not like let's spend 6 months fleshing out ideas to see what we have, that's a hardcore company commitment. Some of that doesn't address your post. But it is the thing that makes me put the tin foil hat on. 7 years is alot to throw away. I think they coupled the downside of D3 with the success of hearthstone and the hope of HoTS. And a new mmo just wasn't worth the effort considering the market and all the effort needed to make it work in tandem with wow. They are probably just watching and waiting for somthing to rip off. Or all of this is just a jedi mind trick with a reveal at blizzcon that will unveil all.

I think the first two replies are well said. Especially the part about mmo's evolving to branch off into sub genres. I do find this quote a bit telling as well: "The approach seems obvious if you look at Blizzard's history of canceling projects it doesn't have complete confidence in, but Morhaime made the company's philosophy clear: "That's for sure, that we'd rather cut out a game we put a lot of time and resources into than put out something that might..." Metzen finished Morhaime's sentence: "Damage the relationship. Smash the trust." I think D3 was in their minds. Prior to that they probably had a mindset of invincibility. I think D3's reception overall brought them down to earth a bit, so to speak. As did some wow expansions like cata. D3 has definitely improved, but a new mmo that would be received the same way would be very bad. It's a matter of scale. Plus, they were probably battling with whether they would need to kill wow in order to maximize player transfer to the new mmo. And that's one heck of a gamble. All of that paired with the massive number of mmo's currently on the market with what was there 10 years ago, alot of them quite good, thinning the base. And you have a great risk that I think they balked at. Then again, if hearthstone and heroes of the storm can make them mass amounts of money, why even bother with an mmo that requires exponentially more maintenance and effort. I haven't played wow in years, but even I was interested in what they had in store for another mmo. The ten year anniversary of wow seemed like the place to unveil it. They would probably be better off creating a wow 2 with modern engine and graphics that people can import characters into, rather than rolling the dice on a new mmo IP (starcraft). Even though I was hoping for starcraft.

No nose in the air. Companies need to make money. I'm willing to give them the money without this f2p ploy. Make a product, sell it to me. Maybe i'm old.

I hear ya. The main point though is that even if it is good grade, that good grade may or may not (who knows) come at a price that is above what a pay to play might cost, who knows. It's what it is until this f2p crap dies. Imagine a great game, develop a great game, sell me that game all inclusive. If you have that passion and employ it to make a game that is all it can be, then my wallet is open. Don't insult my intelligence with this mind numbing crap. Apparently, no one wants to pay for anything. Hence the f2p moniker.

Every time I see free to play I roll my eyes. At this point it is basically an insult to anyone's intelligence. Maybe i'm alone, but I long for the days of actual games, even offline games. Why it is thought that everyone desires to be perpetually connected to other players in every game they play remains a mystery to me. Sell me a product that you have passion for. Free to play needs to die a horrible death.

It is odd. Some of the improvements should have definitely been seen and a part of launch. But at the same time, games in this genre can only be refined once launched. Betas just aren't large enough or include the right people. Betas need to evolve...... Alot of changes could have been foreseen. Others need a live base to refine. Everything is in flux. You can wait many years, and still not get it right if your development is in a vacuum, which i think this game was. Many of the changes should have been in at launch. Others need a large live base to evolve. It isn't easy.

Thank you for a genuine laugh this day.

This is a stance that continually irritates me. Regardless of topic. I'm a mech. engineer who has worked with software designers/engineers. They are the whiniest bunch of people i've ever met. As if their job is on a level no one can comprehend. I'm pretty sure that if I said to my boss, in response to a work request, "it's just too much work" that i'd be fired and replaced. Yet, in the games industry it's all good to use that tired excuse. Whatever, true or not. But you hear it everywhere these days and it gets tired to the point of stupidity.

He's just very good at doing choreographed fight scenes. Why would it have to have anything to do with darth maul given that he wore so much makeup you couldn't identify the actor anyway.

You are probably right in thinking that most players don't like arenas. But it is designed so that even losing is quick and easy, so even those who don't like it will play. Even some podcasts have admitted as much. The internal data, of those who don't leave the arena because of the above, will be misinterpreted as a love for arenas and all will be working as intended. Yay.

I am definitely in favor of an appearance tab system ala LOTRO, but given the mod system here I was thinking about this instead. How about a "Gear Manager" UI window? Try to picture this, sorry no illustration and it will sound more complex than it is, I did make a napkin sketch at work this morning... 1. A window that, at the top, has 5 "Gear" boxes (arbitrary number). Or tabs if space is an issue. Each box representing an orange gear set (head, chest, waist etc..). Providing 5 different appearances. 2. The bottom portion of the window contains 2 "Mod" boxes (1 for pve and 1 for pvp) with buttons above them for each gear slot. Depending on which gear slot you select, the mod box updates to represent those mods. So now, using the "mod boxes", you can populate each gear slot with the mods that you want. One set of mods for pve, one for pvp. Now, those mods that you set up will auto populate whichever gear set you have selected from the 5 gear set choices in the top of the window. Exqmple: I'm out pve'ing in gear set 1, but I get the urge to pvp in gear set 2. So I open the gear manager UI and in 2 clicks i'm ready..1 click to select gear set 2 and 1 click to select the pvp mods set. Apply, close window and bam. Maybe that's 3 clicks.. I have no idea how feasible this is from a programming standpoint or anything like that. Probably would take until 2016 anyway. And yes, it minimizes the credit sink and i'm sure ruins a bunch of other things that I can't thnk of but i'm sure you'll all tell me.....Just spitballing here. Shoot, you could even make money off of it from non subs. Subs get the max gear slots, freebies get 1 or 2 and can unlock more through the CM. Thoughts? Or am I over complicating what would otherwise be accomplished with appearance tabs....? It is Friday and i'm a little loopy from the week.

The orange gear/mod system is interesting and I do like it. Being able to keep one look as you increase in power is great. It's a bit convoluted though in that there is alot of non orange gear floating around that you may like the look of. However, I think that the cost is only part of the issue. I think that the larger point lies with the system itself from an appearance swappers' standpoint. Even if it were free to move mods around from gear to gear, the system itself is just more tedious than it needs to be.

Someone should tell one of the vendors on makeb that it's over. He's still hiding in the tall grass with his vaccine.

SWTOR - A galaxy reborn? Anyway, The main thing that is interesting to me is the class/job system and the cross class skills etc.. One character, over time, levelling up every class and job to switch between as you feel. It seems interesting enough to see what's up over there when things settle down. I do indeed give them credit for actually shutting down and rebuilding. That's, frankly, amazing.

That does seem to ring a bell. I agree it was a loss. Especially since the alternative was worse and more confusing. In my opinion the systems in place do not clarify anything. The only take two systems and collide them into a mess. All of the different vendors and the atrocious sorting makes it worse. I really wish they had stuck to the goal of making all non orange gear RE-able into orange shells. That would have solved alot of the customization issues. And that isn't even hindsight...they saw it but decided against it.

I've been playing this game since release and following it longer than that. I swear that I remember this exact idea was touted by the devs as a feature. "That every piece of non orange gear would have an orange version, and this is what would make crafters more desirable". I don't have a link or a quote, but i'm sure that i'm not alone in remembering this. And it has been one of the most disappointing things to not see come to fruition. The entire orange gear system makes you wonder why anything other is even in the game. Except at very low levels. And yes, you are also correct in that many of the systems, or at least the vendors themselves, are so convoluted that it make you shake your head.

All F2P games get you to pay and rightfully so. They just mask it better in some cases, ads, etc... I've always been against the "free to play" moniker. I have suggested that they call it "swtor lite" or some such thing. Specifically because TOR is indeed "free to try". The UI and hotbars are more than sufficient to play the game for quite a while. And once you reach the point of needing more UI elements to make gameplay comfortable, you have decided that you enjoy the entertainment product that a company has spent money to develop. And as such, complaining about giving them a few bucks to continue is about as absurd as it gets since it has cost you NOTHING up until tha tpoint.

I think there is some leeway that needs to be used when comparing GW2 and TOR. People refer to GW2 as free to play, but you still need to buy the box as far as I know ($60). TOR has moved to giving the download away for free, but charges you for things that seem absurd like hotbars in order to make up for it if you find that you like the game. EDIT: And by the time you actually need more hotbars, you have spent enough free time to decide that the company that is providing your entertainment deserves a few bucks anyway. Does anyone think that GW2 would be so lenient in what's provided to play if the game didn't include the box price? You have a company that invests millions on developing a product, and all this current society can do is complain that they have to actually crowbar their wallets open for a few bucks a month in order to access it. It's entertainment, pay or don't pay. Maybe movies should be free to view now. Unless you want to sit down. Free free free. Gimme gimme gimme.

I think that this is a great topic for a dev blog prior to fp2 launch. Outlining what their philosophy and plans are regarding the Legacy system going forward on one side and the cartel store on the other. In other words, how do they plan to keep legacy as a unique game system without being able to circumvent it via the store. Or if they are ok with the store being a shortcut to legacy unlocks. That sort of thing. I think the legacy system has great potential, but it and the cartel store can end up muddying each other if they aren't careful, which would seem to completely marginalize the legacy system which would be disappointing I think.

Currently MMO forums, most notably general, are like the evening news. Mostly bad, murders, robbery, fires, corruption etc. ("X class is OP", "why you lie BW??", "developers are dumb because of X" etc...) With the occasional "happy" story thrown in about a lost cat rescued by a good samaritan to make it not seem so gloomy, complete with dumb awkward smile on anchor's face. (MMO equivalent might be a handy guide posted by someone). All we're missing is a picture of a mod with a dopey grin to accompany the good post. You are most likely to find anything substantive in the sub forums of any particular game. The ratio seems to be better there.

Exactly. I would have thought that it would have been better not to use the "free to play" misnomer for the announcement. Perhaps roll it out as SWTOR Lite or something. I hate the F2P name, because it rarely is. People see F2P and think, cool i'll end my sub and play for free!!lololol. In my mind, using the F2P title just adds a PR nightmare and misconceptions across the board. Some people even saying that $15 for the game for F2P is too much...really? And there are other people are saying "why should I lose access to things that I grinded out or bank slot etc... if I think the game isn't worth 15 a month?". Well, if those things are important to you, then it is worth 15 a month. The whole free to play title needs to go away.