SWTOR $1 million decrease in subscription

[ekwalizer]

Not to nit-pick, but the decline was year over year, not by quarter - you can see the language and grid right above the line OP quoted is showing it as the difference between the Quarter ending Sept 30, 2016 and Sept 30, 2015.

 

So this $1 million dip in revenue is relative to the Quarter last year when they had that massive 31% increase in subscriptions from the lead up to KotFE.

 

Can you show me on this chart where they actually had a 31% increase in subscriptions .... I know they reported it, but those people either didn't stick around long or simply didn't log into the game.

[TrixxieTriss]

Of course. What else did you expect? Subscription is dead business model. That is why SWTOR went free 2 play and there are no upcoming subscription games. Everything is free 2 play where sub is only if you want to get extra perks, not mandatory to enjoy like in SWTOR.

Only thing that makes no sense is why EA insists trying to keep it alive. Of course EA is stupid, so there is that. I hope they rework this game to actually be enjoyable free 2 play, and then you have option to sub if you want more enjoyment. That is overall far better model. I certainly would sub to get complimentary cartel coins, free expansions and increased credit income and some other stuff, but i hate that i HAVE to sub the game just to enjoy it properly.

 

Future is bright for gaming industry. It is dark for subscription models. Sadly, EA still exists and is still making profit, so SWTOR remains sick Design decisions would still be somewhat similar without EA, people would still complain about this being single player MMO, but at least free 2 play experience should improve without EA, making game better place for everyone. Impossible to say if this game can survive as single player MMO though. I would prefer they just make Old Republic single player game, i love every story bit about this game, and then they could make this more MMO-ish - if it could survive without as heavy focus on story. Short term it certainly could not.

 

I hate how EA has license to Star Wars games Everyone wants Old Republic single player game with amazing story from SWTOR that could be heavily improved on single player game. And everyone wants MMO to be MMO and separate from single player game. Sure it would mean devs would actually have to heavily improve this game or it would die, but that is good thing.

 

I hate EA

 

World of Warcraft is still subscription only and is the most successful MMO ever made.

[DarthDymond]

Can you show me on this chart where they actually had a 31% increase in subscriptions .... I know they reported it, but those people either didn't stick around long or simply didn't log into the game.

That chart measures concurrent players (and only in broad strokes, since it simply tracks whether a server was flagged as "light" "standard" or "heavy" not the actual population numbers), whereas the EA 10-Qs are talking about paying subscribers. If F2P players start subscribing that doesn't necessarily change the server population density.

 

In Q2:FY16, SWTOR had a spike of 31% in subscriptions - not necessarily in concurrent players. Now, in Q2:FY17 there's been a $1 million decline in EA's overall subscription revenue year-over-year (significantly but not necessarily completely attributable to SWTOR subs decline) relative to the quarter that had that spike in subscriptions.

Edited November 13, 2016 by DarthDymond

[ahnog]

Not unusual to have a dip at the end of an expansion.

[TrixxieTriss]

They need a management change here...

 

And to listen to their current and old player base. Then give us what we want and not what they think we should have or what they think will bring in a completely different player base.

They only have themselves to blame because the MMO player base started to leave after 3.0 and 4:0 drove heaps of the remaining players away. They sacrificed and alienated their original and current player base to take the game in a completely different direction by turning the game into a solo, easy mode game to take advantage of the SW movies.

With 5.0 and all the gear changes and lack of MMO group content, 5.0 will drive even more of the player base away.

Management should be fired or have their pay bonuses linked to player satisfaction.

[Ecaja]

Maybe. Or maybe they get far more revenue from non-subscription system as they get from subscription. Cartel market has been huge financial success for them.

 

I much rather have them go with the subscription model and get rid of the Gambling for Child and Adult alike Packs, and let us purchase stuff directly.

 

I am certainly not going to go and buy gambling tickets for outfits, and i am tired of having to grind Credits to buy outfits i like. I'd much rather throw money at them directly. I already pay to unlock the outfits for my account and whatnot.

 

So as far as i am concerned, i am fine with the subscription. If i'd remove anything about that, it would be the limitation to credits.

 

I would sub if i could get complimentary cartel coins, increased XP and other stuff.

 

But you do get complimentary cartel coins, increased exp and subscriber rewards.

[Eshvara]

I much rather have them go with the subscription model and get rid of the Gambling for Child and Adult alike Packs, and let us purchase stuff directly.

 

I am certainly not going to go and buy gambling tickets for outfits, and i am tired of having to grind Credits to buy outfits i like. I'd much rather throw money at them directly. I already pay to unlock the outfits for my account and whatnot.

 

So as far as i am concerned, i am fine with the subscription. If i'd remove anything about that, it would be the limitation to credits.

 

 

 

But you do get complimentary cartel coins, increased exp and subscriber rewards.

 

If you buy stuff directly, a lot of things will.become "worthless" the cm will have a never ending page of armor sets, mounts and what not.

The prices will probably be odd from both sides, but probably more expensive than they should be and trying to sell those items in game won't make people as money as they do now.

 

Id love to have all the rare items become a normal purchase for my sake, but it also removes the cool factor when everyone is walking with everything. I rather not have a Senya's lightsaber than everyone having a Senya's lightsaber.

 

And lord knows, I don't own one. or any platinum item for that matter.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Ouch - napkin math means they ideally had ~66,000 less subs this period than they did the previous then which is surprising when you remember the July-September period had monthly chapters being released - I can see why they aren't doing monthly chapters anymore, it was a failure of a concept as I said way back then it would be.

 

Not saying story focus was necessarily but giving people the option to just sub at chapter 16 to get it all for $15 was never a smart plan/ Now they think they can claw it back by making a more pure sub model in the "if you want content/gear you have to sub" ... my next prediction - that will fail miserably and they'll bleed even more subs.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The $1 million was the overall decline for that net revenue stream across all of EA's subscription properties, SWTOR's dip was the most significant single contributor but probably not the only one - just like it isn't bringing in $99 million a quarter alone.

 

Who knows ... it might even be worse for SWToR and the loss got boosted by other games that didn't dip in subscription.

 

That's the problem with statements like that - we can't form solid conclusions, just assumptions for discussion.

[Radzkie]

Hey guys I have an idea of how they can fix their subscription problem

 

RNG gearing

 

Foolproof plan

Edited November 13, 2016 by Radzkie

[Eshvara]

Hey guys I have an idea of how they can fix their subscription problem

 

RNG gearing

 

Foolproof plan

People might want their gear so badly, that they'll sub for a long time in order to get it. Rng isn't usually in the player's favor. So if it takes several months to get, they could cash in on subs.

 

Obviously there's also a chance People will do the exact opposite, but I guess it was worth a try in BW eyes.

[TrixxieTriss]

Hey guys I have an idea of how they can fix their subscription problem

 

RNG gearing

 

Foolproof plan

 

Another excellent example of management not listening to their player base. I love this game, but they really deserve to go bankrupt.

[Transcendent]

$1M subscription loss over a quarter equates to 22,222 accounts no longer contributing to the game.

 

Do you think we can afford to lose 22K paying customers? Show me a company that does that and says "yep, doing great!"

 

How did you arrive at 22000?

 

1M / $15 = 66600 (which also gives us an idea of the range of actual subscribers (~6M) if that is a 1% loss in subscription revenue).

[Theeko]

I thought they didn't realise info like this?

[Celise]

From EA's Quarterly Report: "$1 million or 1 percent decrease in subscription net revenue primarily due to Star Wars: The Old Republic."

 

i would expect the new Expac to drop the numbers a few percent, however that should be irreverent to EA as long as a large enough profit is being made, but if Bioware want to keep going they can't keep doing shoddy design choices like this or it could end for them if EA get jittery enough to pull the product.

[Transcendent]

I thought they didn't realise info like this?

 

They have a legal duty to inform investors of certain points. They don't have to provide specific subscription numbers overall.

[NakodaTheJedi]

They have a legal duty to inform investors of certain points. They don't have to provide specific subscription numbers overall.

 

if theyre investors ask then yes they do lol

[NakodaTheJedi]

Hey guys I have an idea of how they can fix their subscription problem

 

RNG gearing

 

Foolproof plan

 

who is to say this didn't happen because of the rng announcement? its done in quarters after all so rng has been announced for a good month or two so the subs who left because of that would show up in that.

[commanderwar]

I as other who said this is a quarter report for the trailer, So before galatic command and eveything. There bound to be drop for the expansion so this basically means nothing. Interesting to see next report though.

[sjmc]

How did you arrive at 22000?

 

1M / $15 = 66600 (which also gives us an idea of the range of actual subscribers (~6M) if that is a 1% loss in subscription revenue).

A quarter of a year is 3 months, not one month.

[TheRomanRuler]

World of Warcraft is still subscription only and is the most successful MMO ever made.

Exactly my point. Unless you are most successful MMO ever made, sub won´t work.

[t-darko]

So here we go again, go get your pitchfork, light your torch, we're off to burn down the wind mill, and this time we're really gonna kill the monster!!!

 

Those who tries to reason, drown in the crowds unisonlly cry to; KILL, KILL, KILL . . .

 

And once again, these forums does not reflect the player base.

[Tsillah]

How did you arrive at 22000?

 

1M / $15 = 66600 (which also gives us an idea of the range of actual subscribers (~6M) if that is a 1% loss in subscription revenue).

 

It's a quarterly report so you need to divide it by another 3 since it's a 3 month period.

 

Also it says the loss came from SWTOR primarily, but not exclusively. So we can see that SWTOR has the largest share in this loss but not the full 1 Million. If they have 5 sub games then a 30-40% share of that could mean primarily. It could also mean 90% of that share but that was not specified.

 

But let's be reasonable here for a minute. Last year KotFE was released in October wasn't it? Now the report we are looking at is for the months July, August and September. So last year people were resubbing in this period because KotFE was coming, particularly in September. It could be reasonable to assume that because this year KotET is released over a month later that it's not surprising that there is a dip in revenue. It's a milion down on the total but it went from 84 to 83 million. The sub bonuses of Shae Vizla and the Walker are part of the current quarter so things may not be as dire after all.

 

As a sidenote, I find this type of bookkeeping interesting. Last time I checked 1% of 84 million was not 1 million but 0.84 million. So it's really 1.2% but I guess that's what happens when you round off to the nearest whole number.

 

Still I have to admit that maybe some of us, like I did, might be reading a little more into it than is going on. But no matter how you look at it BWA have reasons to focus on subs.

[Keraejis]

What I see is that those with the power to change things are not interested in this game. Maybe they were at one time but not anymore. The game has a ton of potential that isn't even being tapped into but it takes people who are interested and motivated to get others interested and motivated. The current powers just seem uninterested and unmotivated and are just waiting for confirmation before moving to something that they are interested in. All the things I've seen in the past couple years makes it seem like there's one dev working on this game. There has to be more than that so it must be the bare minimum so they can go play WoW or something. I don't mean to insult the devs but that's what I see. Bugs aren't fixed, current content is shoddy or a regurgitation of 'improved' old content that has become shoddy because of the 'improvement'... and not fixed. Even the grinding is shoddy and seems cut and pasted.

 

I just don't think they wonder why players are leaving. I'm almost thinking they want them to.

[Transcendent]

It's a quarterly report so you need to divide it by another 3 since it's a 3 month period.

 

Good point, was too early in the morning for my brain to be working out figures Still, that puts the subscriber base at around the 2m mark. Which all things considered isn't bad. Perhaps this is why we're seeing the moves to lock sub numbers in by making GC subscriber only, as well as locking gearing behind that in an effort to retain subscribers.

 

Sadly that also means there isn't going to be any shift from BioWare on that method, as the management will be under pressure to retain those numbers. It also wouldn't surprise me if that 1% has a direct correlation to NiM raiders in the game, which is probably another reasoning behind the shift in gearing method enabling all players to achieve that top tier of gear. Albeit by a very non-transparent tweaking of RNG behind the scenes to lengthen the time it requires, while locking in that subscriber base.

 

I think they're taking a risk by doing it this way, purely depends on how many subscribers they're willing to lose overall, because they absolutely will lose some due to the frustration of RNG gearing. Perhaps it'll be the PvP player base they're sacrificing this time around.