Radzkie Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 So basically they weren't going to be discipline specific. LOLLOOLOLLLOL Why am I not surprised that they had pure RNG hell planned? I am surprised that they changed that though. Shocked, even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Armor pieces are still slot-locked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion_Starkiller Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Well, like I said in another thread, how do we know each GCC will only drop 1 item? If it's anything like the heroic "crate" drops, it'll be 2 items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayshuba Posted October 20, 2016 Author Share Posted October 20, 2016 Actually Ben did say he wasn't sure about the Armoring piece and would have to check on that part (It was at the 10:52 ish mark). However I will bet the Armor piece is still going to be linked to a specific piece of gear. He has already clarified this in another thread. The armoring is indeed linked to a particular type of slot. So no moving your fifth belt armoring to a chest piece you really need. RNG stinks no matter which way you slice this turkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devincor Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 RNG stinks no matter which way you slice this turkey. I hate RNG as much as anyone. (I hate/refuse to buy CM Packs - I wish they would just sell everything individually on the Cartel Market on a rotation to let me buy what I want , I also know and accept they will never do that.) However, the fact that they did somewhat of a compromise an brought the RNG closer to the Heroic Crate range is a meaningful gesture on their part (they did listen). If your trying to communicate with someone and your attitude is there's no room for negotiation, you might as well just go scream at the wall. Arguing for the full removal of RNG (which is apparently something Bioware does want as part of this) is futile. It will only encourage less (or the complete shutdown of) communication and negotiation. I think getting them to at least make the pieces discipline specific was a decent compromise, one of the first reasonable compromises in a long time. We can see how it goes from there and make further fine tuning recommendations as we test it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) However, the fact that they did somewhat of a compromise an brought the RNG closer to the Heroic Crate range is a meaningful gesture on their part (they did listen). Exactly. Their approach with Heroic crates worked pretty well to be honest. With the change from AC to Discipline is a big change that mitigates RNG... because you are working with a much smaller loot table with the Discipline approach. That application of filtered loot table + RNG is a very reasonable methodology. Two or three weeks after 5.0 drops... most players that really really want their gear.. will in fact have it and be playing whatever they want to be playing. Edited October 21, 2016 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 RNG is not going away. SNIP.... And thats the problem. RNG gearing. Is discipline gearing better than what we had with AC gear? Sure it is. However, the problem still stands. RNG gear plus you are limited to just the discipline. Full on DPS tonight. We can someone switch to healer. Sorry cant do that. no gear. I've been trying to get my DPS set. Add about any variation to that with DPS,Healing and Tanking toons. IT's the same cluster screw up we had just a slightly different screw up. Another change that doesn't move the game forward or into a good direction. Just some lateral movement to keep RNG gear in the game. RNG gear isn't going anywhere and thats a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Exactly. Their approach with Heroic crates worked pretty well to be honest. With the change from AC to Discipline is a big change that mitigates RNG... because you are working with a much smaller loot table with the Discipline approach. That application of filtered loot table + RNG is a very reasonable methodology. Two or three weeks after 5.0 drops... most players that really really want their gear.. will in fact have it and be playing whatever they want to be playing. I'm somewhat more optimistic about that now that I know the "target" rate of box acquisition is in the 1 per hour range for the "hardcore casual," shading up to 2 per hour for the "heavy player," and that they're filtering by Discipline, not AC. The RNG still doesn't make me happy, per se; but it's not a flaming dumpster fire on a railroad level crossing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebab Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 hope it goes well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 And thats the problem. RNG gearing. Is discipline gearing better than what we had with AC gear? Sure it is. However, the problem still stands. RNG gear plus you are limited to just the discipline. Full on DPS tonight. We can someone switch to healer. Sorry cant do that. no gear. I've been trying to get my DPS set. Add about any variation to that with DPS,Healing and Tanking toons. IT's the same cluster screw up we had just a slightly different screw up. Another change that doesn't move the game forward or into a good direction. Just some lateral movement to keep RNG gear in the game. RNG gear isn't going anywhere and thats a problem. Maybe I'm weird, but I'd just switch to one of my healing characters, rather than respec on the spot. Even in the same AC, I have wildly different placement of powers for "shared" powers, so I'm going to have to move around powers on the bars, pull stuff out of the powers pane, remember to regear properly, and then undo it again when I'm done. And, try not to cuss my muscle memory because 15 minutes go I was running the same character as a DPS instead of a healer. At least with another character, I have different visual cues, a UI configured for the role, possibly different keybinds, etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEnrique Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Maybe I'm weird, but I'd just switch to one of my healing characters, rather than respec on the spot. Even in the same AC, I have wildly different placement of powers for "shared" powers, so I'm going to have to move around powers on the bars, pull stuff out of the powers pane, remember to regear properly, and then undo it again when I'm done. And, try not to cuss my muscle memory because 15 minutes go I was running the same character as a DPS instead of a healer. At least with another character, I have different visual cues, a UI configured for the role, possibly different keybinds, etc, etc. You're not the only one I do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soljin Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) And thats the problem. RNG gearing. Is discipline gearing better than what we had with AC gear? Sure it is. However, the problem still stands. RNG gear plus you are limited to just the discipline. Full on DPS tonight. We can someone switch to healer. Sorry cant do that. no gear. I've been trying to get my DPS set. Add about any variation to that with DPS,Healing and Tanking toons. IT's the same cluster screw up we had just a slightly different screw up. Another change that doesn't move the game forward or into a good direction. Just some lateral movement to keep RNG gear in the game. RNG gear isn't going anywhere and thats a problem. Switch specs prior to opening the boxes....your rewards will be decided by the spec you are in when you open the Command Crate.... Edited October 21, 2016 by Soljin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquor Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 The fix will be just like the companions. Every class can be tank, heals, or DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 The devs are not going to change what they have already decided. Months have been spent developing this new system. This is relatively true... it's too late to change a system at this late stage... they would have been better to obtain player feed back on the idea before even going down the RNG path... but some tweaks can still be made that should be fairly painless for them to change.. The gear needs to be bound to legacy and not bound to character... that would definitely help people with lots of alts as you could swap ear pieces etc as you needed... it still doesn't completely solve the RNG system... which no body really wants... but it might help mitigate it till they can implement something better... they could also change the chance percentage of the drops so that it's more like 1 in 3 of getting the right spec and they could also change it so if you have a piece exactly the same it won't drop that piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Did they answer in the stream about how these supposed crafted pieces will come about.. ie.. how hard will it be to get the recipe and the mats... Will crafting trainers just have the schematics for sale or do you have to jump through 50 hoops to get both it and the mats... They need to give us an answer on this question to alleviate some tension about RNG... if it's going to be hoop jumping procedure, it will be a disaster and make everything they've said about the crafted items being a work around, a complete farce... Hoop jumping to craft only increases costs... if it costs 2-5 mil for a mod.. it will be just as bad as farming CPX RNG drops Bioware, Eric... we need an answer on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Maybe I'm weird, but I'd just switch to one of my healing characters, rather than respec on the spot. Even in the same AC, I have wildly different placement of powers for "shared" powers, so I'm going to have to move around powers on the bars, pull stuff out of the powers pane, remember to regear properly, and then undo it again when I'm done. And, try not to cuss my muscle memory because 15 minutes go I was running the same character as a DPS instead of a healer. At least with another character, I have different visual cues, a UI configured for the role, possibly different keybinds, etc, etc. I'm the same.. it's why I started my Alt collection to start with... sure it's gotten out of control now with 35 toons... but having to do this CXP thing with 35 toons will be a game killer for me.. rip alts Also a little hint if you don't already do it. Set up you keybinds per toon and save them in your preferences... ie Jugg KB, Sorc KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaticFringer Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) I'm going to call b.s. on one point. If you look at the history of mmorpgs going way way back to EQ, SWG, and so on... they use to do some of what we called rollbacks. That is to say... they'd patch something and after they saw how badly we did not like a change they'd change it back. In this case, it isn't live yet. So, yeah, they can still just not do this. Or, at least, tweak it in such a way that we can actually be ok with. Example: Just leave the current in FP/OPs loot drop and crystal vendors alone. Tweak crafting to be on par. And, hell, keep your Command System... but only put feature Cartel Market items or special Command items in those RNG boxes and don't try fixing what isn't broken and working fine. In the above example... they get to keep all the work they've done... but leave gearing the hell alone and still have a carrot for their new reuse game content system. I mean, I know for a fact they've got people working for this game that have been on other projects... how can they not see this is already chasing off players? Though, again, this feels more like a suits at work than something the Devs actually knowingly think we want. Unfortunately, the only reason I'll stay subbed is this is the only supported "official" Star Wars mmorpg we have right now and I hate fantasy games. However, I've already had guild members unsub over this and I can't see this getting better. smh Edited October 21, 2016 by LunaticFringer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herring Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I'm going to call b.s. on one point. Example: Just leave the current in FP/OPs loot drop and crystal vendors alone. Tweak crafting to be on par. And, hell, keep your Command System... but only put feature Cartel Market items or special Command items in those RNG boxes and don't try fixing what isn't broken and working fine. smh I never post on the forums, DEVS please listen to your customer base. I wish we had someone that would listen about RNG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Switch specs prior to opening the boxes....your rewards will be decided by the spec you are in when you open the Command Crate.... That doesn't fix the RNG problem... What they SHOULD have said is that RNG would take into account what you're WEARING and not award you the same gear twice when you still need better gear. That is similar to how ME3 Multiplayer boxes work, you may get crap, but it'll be new crap, you don't get the same stuff over and over (such as a rifle you already have maxed out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake_Averrod Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 For me its just an overall loss in flexibility and convenience. Right now I know where which token drops. I know which gear which character still needs and so I can go where it drops. But on top of that I can do it with the character I like to play the most (well safe for implants, relics and implants, but with Eternal Championship and crafting this is a non issue). My main is a sentinel and I enjoy playing him the most, but I also like having atleast 1 tank, 1 heal and 1 rdps available for group content when someone is missing and I like them geared well. I wouldn't be that much concerned about the RNG on my Sent as I play him all the time anyway. But it concerns and annoys me for all the other alts I would like to gear. For one I have to grind out gear on them now until I can play them they way I enjoy playing them. Doing that means I can not play my Sentinel the way I want to. RNG is just the cherry on the top making this process slower. Moreso I might have to leave some alts alone all together. Having to prioritize which alts you want and don't want to play is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valeita Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Yeah, they never listen, nothing new. Either remove the RNG or I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarrinMarshall Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 The devs are not going to change what they have already decided. Months have been spent developing this new system. That's their problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaconik Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I just leave here that set offhands HAVE actually mods and armorings and enhancements. That's why we love Gree event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayshuba Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) This is relatively true... it's too late to change a system at this late stage... they would have been better to obtain player feed back on the idea before even going down the RNG path... but some tweaks can still be made that should be fairly painless for them to change.. The gear needs to be bound to legacy and not bound to character... that would definitely help people with lots of alts as you could swap ear pieces etc as you needed... it still doesn't completely solve the RNG system... which no body really wants... but it might help mitigate it till they can implement something better... they could also change the chance percentage of the drops so that it's more like 1 in 3 of getting the right spec and they could also change it so if you have a piece exactly the same it won't drop that piece. See, I disagree with this point. The GCS end gear RNG they know is a point of contention - a very big one. So, just like the delay with the Eternal Championship until it was polished, they should hold off dropping this with the expansion until it is right. What they should focus on in updating the gear drops in game (both in play areas and vendors) for the new gear and stick with what we have. Why they would insist on moving forward with something they know before launch is making a lot of players upset, is getting them negative press on MMO news sites, and is lighting up the forums is beyond me. Not to mention soon players are also going to get the big news about the class changes - several of which probably are not going to go over well. It seems there is a lot of game mechanic changes coming with this expansion but not a lot of content changes. Edited October 21, 2016 by Wayshuba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Why they would insist on moving forward with something they know before launch is making a lot of players upset, is getting them negative press on MMO news sites, and is lighting up the forums is beyond me. Because for 3 years now the people running this game do not know what they are doing... I've been saying it for awhile now... the launch team was good, the mistakes and issues at launch, can be forgiven when you take into account the scope of the game, but most of the launch devs were gone within a year or two, the current people had nothing to do with the game back then. It is a crying shame really... But lets be honest... this is all an attempt to polish a turd, no new content for 2 years worth talking about, no MMO content anyway, just single player stuff, and this is just further trying to cover that up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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