Why Macros belong in TOR.

[_compton_]

Macros are not in for several reasons:

 

1. Goldbots, if there is no macro support, goldbots cannot thrive, nuff said really.

 

2. Multiboxing in pvp, a massive problem in Rift, some would say "kill the lead"...sure thing I'll try kill the front guy while his other 4 accounts that are following me nuke me down before I even get anywhere near.

 

3. Skillcap, this is simply non-existent when Macros dictate everything, Rift for me was so dumb when it came to the majority of content as you could really do everything with 2-3 button binds.

 

4. Exploiting GCD, Macros in some games (DCUO) could bypass the GCD through glitching animations, I wouldn't doubt with the combat system in SWTOR we would see this with a macro system.

 

5. Opens the floodgates for hacking, yes macros are the first step towards allowing someone to manipulate there client code to allow some of the more "soft hacks" to get through undetected, not something we want for SWTOR.

 

I will note macros done right can work, but I don't feel they are warranted in SWTOR and on the last point, remember I only ment for soft hacks (some part of speed hacks does involve macros to trigger the hack in some cases but not all) and I have actually noted some players have found glitches and exploits to bypass the system.

 

Only today I saw a Sorc running around in Bounty Hunter Heavy armor, the other day I saw another Sorc running around at the speed of light constantly, but these players will likely be caught and banned, because they are using 3rd party hacks that will be detectable....It would actually be harder to catch them if there was a macro system involved.

 

A limited, controlled implementation including only a few key features would not create any issues. I'm not advocating for a system that allows players to create any type of macro they want with impunity.

 

The title of the thread is a little broad, but I provided clarification in the OP, and in the TL;DR to a lesser extent. I see now that I was wrong to assume that people would actually read any of that. :/

 

@Night, what serious macros do you think I'm advocating for in the OP?

Edited December 28, 2011 by _compton_

[NightHawke]

You should not talk about macros if you don't know what they are.

 

If you are unable to take apart a bot and a macro, you have not enough knowledge on the issue to judge it.

 

Bots are coded outside the game and most likely there will be TOR bots, with or without a macro interface.

 

Bots don't use game's macro interfaces. In fact most bots juggle with data in memory and don't really care about what is going on in the game.

 

Macros don't let you do anything with your character if you are not playing it.

 

 

Ummm I know what a bot is. It is an extensive macro.

 

A macro is a series of commands that are executed. AKA lines of code.

 

A macro can initiate a macro which can initiate a macro. With different timing of these lines of code, you can have it go on for quite a while.

 

The running in circles thing is so you dont get logged out.

 

 

 

Please do not patronize me, I understand the concepts both in theory and in practice. Ever used a macro for Ultima Online? WoW? Rift? SWG? EQ? Don't get me started about Darkfall or Shadowbane.

[NightHawke]

A limited, controlled implementation including only a few key features would not create any issues. I'm not advocating for a system that allows players to create any type of macro they want with impunity.

 

The title of the thread is a little broad, but I provided clarification in the OP, and in the TL;DR to a lesser extent. I see now that I was wrong to assume that people would actually read any of that. :/

 

Once Pandora's Box is opened....

[AtomicDP]

lol whats the point of macros anyways? it's not like its impossible to play the game without them...

[Zarthorn]

A limited, controlled implementation including only a few key features would not create any issues. I'm not advocating for a system that allows players to create any type of macro they want with impunity.

 

The title of the thread is a little broad, but I provided clarification in the OP, and in the TL;DR to a lesser extent. I see now that I was wrong to assume that people would actually read any of that. :/

 

You missed my point, macros that allow for automation of attack skills allow for multiboxing and gold farming bots as well as the GCD bypass exploit.

 

This is why macros were not put in, and probably why Bioware will never put them in, even the smallest thing such as an attack queueing macro can be used for bad things and will be, so it's better to avoid the issue entirely than run any risks.

[ajjw]

The people who believe macros lead to botting couldn't be more ignorant to the truth if you slapped them in the face with it.

 

Let's take WoW. Macros there are very limited, and they run off the same API as AddOns though more restricted. An API is a big list of the functions you can and cannot use. If you try to do something not allowed by the API, your macro will fizzle.

 

Bots do not use macros. They do not use the API. They use DLL injection into the game client's process. These bots WILL arise with or without macros being allowed in SWTOR.

 

Seriously, wisen the frack up before commenting on stuff you have absolutely NO idea about.

[ajjw]

You missed my point, macros that allow for automation of attack skills allow for multiboxing and gold farming bots as well as the GCD bypass exploit.

 

This is why macros were not put in, and probably why Bioware will never put them in, even the smallest thing such as an attack queueing macro can be used for bad things and will be, so it's better to avoid the issue entirely than run any risks.

Read my above post. Macros cannot do the things you are talking about. Please try to understand this.

[klathnagma]

Push button X, enable macro to push button Y,Z,A,B now you just enabled an item buff, two attack moves and a heal. How is that not automated?

You can't make a macro that bypasses the GDC. If you can the macro system is bugged.

 

You cannot use 2 attacks and a heal in a macro, because they will share GDC.

 

In-game macros can't push more than one key, they react when you push a key and do only one key action.

 

The kind of macros you are talking about - hit one key and push a sequence - already exists and are backed up by Bioware.

 

http://www.razerzone.com/swtor/keyboard

 

I repeat myself, you show a huge lack of understanding about what a macro is or not, and it's clear you never used macros. You should learn more about it before to judge the issue.

Edited December 28, 2011 by klathnagma

[Avaer]

Sorry but to want macros is just ridiculous. No real pvper is going to want macros!

 

How is it fun to have 1 button perform everything for you? I quit RIFT because of the damn macros. There was literally no skill at all.

 

Macros can stay in RIFT. SWtOR does not need it and is better off without it.

[_compton_]

Once Pandora's Box is opened....

 

You still don't seem to understand what I'm asking for.

 

Focus macro functionality to use with the focus frames that I believe are already within the game. Such a macro would look like this:

 

/cast [target=focus] "abilityname"

 

Here's a mouseover macro -

 

/cast [target=mouseover] "abilityname"

 

Devilishly complicated, right?

 

@Boba - I may have exaggerated to emphasize my point - effectively, I might add. There is no possible way to argue that you can recreate more quickly manually clicking than another player could with a focus macro.

[Aghar]

I do not know if anyone has mentioned this to you but there is focus functionality already in the game. You have to go into your prefrences and enable it, but it is there. Secondly you can keybind both to set your focus target and a focus key modifier, so that when you push this modifier key, you use your ability on your focus instead of your target. No need for macros to do that. I am all for limited macro support but when you call for macros that allow you to do things already in the game, just not obviously apparent, I have to wonder if you ever actually looked through your ui settings, or just assumed since there was no macro's there is no focus support.

[ShadowSoljer]

Read my above post. Macros cannot do the things you are talking about. Please try to understand this.

 

I think that you think that you know what you are talking about, but you think that everyone else that agrees with you thinks you are cool for trying to make everyone who disagrees with you ignorant and stupid.

 

tl;dr? you are an ignorant ****.

[Jurisnoctis]

I'm going to ignore all the re-re's in here and go with the OP.

 

Ofcourse there will be macros in this game. If there aren't, I know I'm quick enough to get everything done, albeit a PAIN IN THE *** AND I ALREADY PLAY STARCRAFT I DON'T WANT ANOTHER 100+(I doubt over 100 is needed for an MMO, ever) APM GAME TYVM.

 

Don't worry about the trolls, OP. I'm sure BioWare has technical difficulties at the moment.

 

As in, Macros work, but either not as intended, or TOO STRONGLY like some imply here. It would in fact be bad if they can't limit their console commands and we can put in a cast sequence, priority list, or a short algorithm and LITERALLY press 1 button.

 

Or it may not have macros enabled at all.

 

But in the world of OOP (Object Oriented Programming), and with BioWare, not a bad company, I'm sure macros exist, but are just not available to the masses yet.

 

To all who say macros are skill-less, here's what some of my macros look like.

 

/target focus

/cast Hand of Sacrifice

 

/cast Divine Shield

/cancelaura Divine Shield (Tell me where I can find that on my abilities bar thank you very much. I have to double click/press it to work too, so it's still two button presses)

 

/cast Pain Suppression

/cast Power Word:Shield

(Pain Suppression is off GCD, making things SLIGHTLY faster)

 

/castsequence [reset=18] Charge, Intercept;

^ Unsure if that's the actual one, but if you don't know what that means, don't get excited by cast sequence or you're an e-diot. This basically allows me to map both my charges to 1 button.

 

Here's how some of my OH MY GOD gamebreaking macros would look like in SW:TOR. Tell me if it looks OP to you. Also tell me you know exactly what it does, and only if you do, will anyone care what you have to say about it.

 

/use [modifier=shift] relic1; [modifier=none] relic2;

Or however the format will be.

 

/use [modifier=none] Frenzy; [modifier=shift] Predation;

 

/target focus

/use Static Barrier

/targetlasttarget

 

I play Marauder, so my macros are not the most useful, but I'm sure on my higher level Operative and Sorcerer, they will become ESSENTIAL.

 

I don't know how bad you guys who don't want macros are doing, but I have easily 24 abilities mapped. I wish I can bind my companions abilities to my bars. OR AT LEAST MAKE A MACRO SO I CAN USE THEM DIRECTLY FROM MY BARS RATHER THAN HAVE TO PRESS CTRL+3/4 AND NOT HAVE ACCESS TO 5+, AND HAVE TO SACRIFICE 12 OF MY BUTTONS SO I CAN USE MY COMPANION'S DAMN HEAL ONCE IN A WHILE EFFECTIVELY.

 

[/rant]

 

So yeah, Macros will come OP. And if they don't, I guess us that are good anyway will dominate with our APM, but it'll be annoying.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Jurisnoctis

[Zarthorn]

The people who believe macros lead to botting couldn't be more ignorant to the truth if you slapped them in the face with it.

 

Let's take WoW. Macros there are very limited, and they run off the same API as AddOns though more restricted. An API is a big list of the functions you can and cannot use. If you try to do something not allowed by the API, your macro will fizzle.

 

Bots do not use macros. They do not use the API. They use DLL injection into the game client's process. These bots WILL arise with or without macros being allowed in SWTOR.

 

Seriously, wisen the frack up before commenting on stuff you have absolutely NO idea about.

 

However, those bots are much easier to track and erradicate if they are using a 3rd party programme to interface with the client, since the server will detect the anomaly when it scans the client files (how several bots were detected and banned at WAR's release)

 

If macros are supported and even enabled ingame, we would have seen bots from day 1 and they would be a ton harder to catch since they can use the ingame macro interface to bypass the client file check and thus it falls on the reliance of player reporting to ban bots.

 

The question is what would you prefer?

 

A system where bots can operate freely and are harder to ban? (macros supported and enabled)

 

A system where bots get caught quickly and banned frequently? (macros unsupported and disabled forcing the use of a 3rd party client modication and hacks)

 

Next time before spouting off that we are "dumb" go look at the plephora of issues Rift has had with hacks, gold farmers and the like simply because of there macro system.

[ajjw]

Sorry but to want macros is just ridiculous. No real pvper is going to want macros!

 

How is it fun to have 1 button perform everything for you? I quit RIFT because of the damn macros. There was literally no skill at all.

 

Macros can stay in RIFT. SWtOR does not need it and is better off without it.

I've never played RIFT. If its macro system allowed you to queue multiple skills from 1 keypress, then it was their broken implementation you should be angry at, not macros themselves.

 

The ONLY way you can activate more than 1 ability in a macro is if they are off the GCD. In other words if you have a Relic and CD off-GCD and let's say a Heal on-GCD, you can activate the Relic -> CD -> Heal all at the same time.

 

But guess what. You can do that anyway. Without macros. Macros are an improvement to QoL. You can never do something with macros that could already be done without. The idea is that macros make redundant keystrokes well, redundant.

[Kahldor]

This type of trolling, non-constructive response hardly deserves a reply, but..

 

It's clear you read absolutely nothing of what I posted, I devoted a paragraph to that particular myth, and why it's so blatantly wrong.

 

Not every macro is a "cast-sequence" which is not what I'm in support of, and not what this thread is about.

 

I came from WoW. Played from launch through Cata. Played Rift. Used Macros through both games because everyone else used them.

 

Macros dumbed downed the game. I am happy that SWTOR has not implemented them. Why? Because now I have to think more, be more responsive and consider which buttons I want on priority keys. It makes the game feel less robotic.

 

In short, I don't want macros.

[NightHawke]

You can't make a macro that bypasses the GDC. If you can the macro system is bugged.

 

You cannot use 2 attacks and a heal in a macro, because they will share GDC.

 

In-game macros can push more than one key, they react when you push a key and do only one key action.

 

The kind of macros you are talking about - hit one key and push a sequence - already exists and are backed up by Bioware.

 

http://www.razerzone.com/swtor/keyboard

 

I repeat myself, you show a huge lack of understanding about what a macro is or not, and it's clear you never used macros. You should learn more about it before to judge the issue.

 

And people think I dont understand macros?

 

 

Let me break it down more...

 

Macro button F

 

Execute quickslot 10;

 

Execute ability jack you up;

 

Pause 1.1;

 

Execute ability jack up up more;

 

Execute emote /laugh;

 

Pause 1.1;

 

Execute ability heal me I am hurt;

 

End

 

 

 

 

 

Automated. Any questions?

[_compton_]

I'm going to ignore all the re-re's in here and go with the OP.

 

Ofcourse there will be macros in this game. If there aren't, I know I'm quick enough to get everything done, albeit a PAIN IN THE *** AND I ALREADY PLAY STARCRAFT I DON'T WANT ANOTHER 100+ APM GAME TYVM.

 

Don't worry about the trolls, OP. I'm sure BioWare has technical difficulties at the moment.

 

As in, Macros work, but either not as intended, or TOO STRONGLY like some imply here. It would in fact be bad if they can't limit their console commands and we can put in a cast sequence, priority list, or a short algorithm and LITERALLY press 1 button.

 

Or it may not have macros enabled at all.

 

But in the world of OOP (Object Oriented Programming), and with BioWare, not a bad company, I'm sure macros exist, but are just not available to the masses yet.

 

To all who say macros are skill-less, here's what some of my macros look like.

 

/target focus

/cast Hand of Sacrifice

 

/cast Divine Shield

/cancelaura Divine Shield (Tell me where I can find that on my abilities bar thank you very much. I have to double click/press it to work too, so it's still two button presses)

 

/cast Pain Suppression

/cast Power Word:Shield

(Pain Suppression is off GCD, making things SLIGHTLY faster)

 

/castsequence [reset=18] Charge, Intercept;

^ Unsure if that's the actual one, but if you don't know what that means, don't get excited by cast sequence or you're an e-diot. This basically allows me to map both my charges to 1 button.

 

Here's how some of my OH MY GOD gamebreaking macros would look like in SW:TOR. Tell me if it looks OP to you. Also tell me you know exactly what it does, and only if you do, will anyone care what you have to say about it.

 

/use [modifier=shift] relic1; [modifier=none] relic2;

Or however the format will be.

 

/use [modifier=none] Frenzy; [modifier=shift] Predation;

 

/target focus

/use Static Barrier

/targetlasttarget

 

I play Marauder, so my macros are not the most useful, but I'm sure on my higher level Operative and Sorcerer, they will become ESSENTIAL.

 

I don't know how bad you guys who don't want macros are doing, but I have easily 24 abilities mapped. I wish I can bind my companions abilities to my bars. OR AT LEAST MAKE A MACRO SO I CAN USE THEM DIRECTLY FROM MY BARS RATHER THAN HAVE TO PRESS CTRL+3/4 AND NOT HAVE ACCESS TO 5+, AND HAVE TO SACRIFICE 12 OF MY BUTTONS SO I CAN USE MY COMPANION'S DAMN HEAL ONCE IN A WHILE EFFECTIVELY.

 

[/rant]

 

So yeah, Macros will come OP. And if they don't, I guess us that are good anyway will dominate with our APM, but it'll be annoying.

 

Couldn't agree more, and thanks for the support. All in all I think this thread has been constructive, and also been a good source of entertainment during a dull work day. Great success, all in all.

[Raggok]

@Ragg - thanks for making an effort to understand what I'm actually advocating here. I'd fully support a limited implementation, I also would not like to see things devolve into a situation similar to Rift, as I feel that would negatively impact the game as a whole.

 

Yes, Rift is exactly the type of thing I would like to see avoided where you could have 5 or 6 abilities tied to a single keypress with built in conditionals for range, cooldown up, vulnerabilities etc.

[Zarthorn]

Read my above post. Macros cannot do the things you are talking about. Please try to understand this.

 

Yes they can and have (DCUO has this problem still where certain macro combination cause animation glitches and bypass Global cooldown), SWTORs combat system currently has a few animation issues so no doubt macroing would create the same problem.

 

Honestly if you are going to make a comment about "how I'm wrong" do yourself a favor and check some case studies first.

[ajjw]

If macros are supported and even enabled ingame, we would have seen bots from day 1 and they would be a ton harder to catch since they can use the ingame macro interface to bypass the client file check and thus it falls on the reliance of player reporting to ban bots.

No, you're wrong.

 

Macros cannot do anything of the sort that you think they can. You cannot move your character with macros. You cannot queue up multiple actions in a macro due to GCD.

 

The client does not check the macros - The server does. It would be borderline criminal to have the macro authentication client side and any dev that implemented a macro system that way deserves to have their game exploited.

 

Please, go and read up on how macros actually work if you're not gonna listen to what I say.

[eightohfive]

Macros = lame. All they do is just automate everything for you so that you can use your other hand to sit on your thumb. I used in macros in RIFT, I made it so that around 15 abilities could be used with just 2 macros, which I could then spam for an entire instance. Unless I had to worry about AoE attacks I could watch tv while doing most fights. Probably part of the reason I came to dislike that game so much.

[Audenlol]

Macro's would be a welcomed change by the majority of the swtor community.

 

 

As a maurader, to perform in an optimal lvl, I spend more time staring at my buttons waiting for them to light up than I do enjoying the scenery.

 

Already at a disadvantage in PVP due to the class, last thing i need to do is do the care-bear stare at my bars waiting for an ability to come off the GCD (which is an eternity in pvp).

 

 

Tho, If 1 bright shiny thing came from this thread was the amount of people I was able to put on ignore due to the fact they are straight up mis-informed/stupid.

 

 

It is amazing for the amount of time MMO's have been around, people still have no idea what a macro is...

[Sylvan]

Macro's take skill and timing out of PvP.

 

So, no from me.

[Donthinkfeel]

+1 need macro so hard