Why Macros belong in TOR.

[_compton_]

So you can push one button instead of 3, and the ability move of course so 4 buttons in total is ok?

 

How is that NOT automation?

 

All of your arguments have already been addressed earlier in the thread... No one is denying there is automation involved in macros, the combat in this game is inherently automated... Various functions supported in the UI are automated...

[Thaonnor]

Oh, for the use I want out of macros, believe me, this is enough. I don't want any type of automation since it makes the game boring for me. What I've been saying all along is some macros don't fit into this category, and I feel they should be part of the game.

 

A macro that identifies a healer and instantly casts an interrupt? I agree that shouln't be in there.

 

A macro that let's me cast 3 non-GCD abilities at the same time? That I think should be in the game.

 

There is literally no difference between the two examples you give. Unless the 3 non-GCD abilities do not effect combat, they are a way to improve your game using a single button press instead of 3. The example of interrupting the healer is the exact same. You would be using one button to target the healer, cast the interrupt, and target your original target, making that 3 button presses rolled into 1 as well. The second example is only a less extreme version of the same concept.

[NightHawke]

 

Also, again you are taking my words out of context, and avoiding addressing the material that you have no answer for.

 

.

 

You continually editing your posts is irritating cause it is hard to watch for continuity.

 

Your words are NOT out of context, they are broken up in order of your post.

 

I will be voting no for the push for macros in game.

[Thaonnor]

My OP is rational, logical, developed and my arguments are supported, all qualities that your arguments in contrast have been lacking.

 

@Night - perhaps you are unaware that I am still able to access these features regardless of official support. Hence, my motives are to level the playing field and, as I see it, improve the PvP in this game.

 

Again, you are missing the point. The macros that I am advocating for are not castsequence macros, and the automation involved is extremely minimal.

 

Also, again you are taking my words out of context, and avoiding addressing the material that you have no answer for.

 

@Th - If my arguments are chalk full of fallacies, why have you not exploited them? That's a pretty vague statement.

 

Now you suddenly agree that there is in fact SOME automation, although minimal. We are finally getting somewhere!

[MemphisIX]

So you can push one button instead of 3, and the ability move of course so 4 buttons in total is ok?

 

How is that NOT automation?

 

These are used for non-GCD buffs, sure, you can consider that an automation... I could use a macro to cast a sequence of attacks in chain, at the press of a button, GCD included, THAT would be automation IMHO. But getting 2 buffs up at the same time so I don't have to hit each individually when the fact is I always use them together, I don't consider I'm playing on auto-mode at all.

 

I could just make a macro to do auto-attacks, that would feel like automation to me.

 

It's a fine line, I'll give you that. Maybe we can settle on "some automations don't really break the game, while others do".

[NightHawke]

Oh, for the use I want out of macros, believe me, this is enough. I don't want any type of automation since it makes the game boring for me. What I've been saying all along is some macros don't fit into this category, and I feel they should be part of the game.

 

A macro that identifies a healer and instantly casts an interrupt? I agree that shouln't be in there.

 

A macro that let's me cast 3 non-GCD abilities at the same time? That I think should be in the game.

 

All of your arguments have already been addressed earlier in the thread... No one is denying there is automation involved in macros, the combat in this game is inherently automated... Various functions supported in the UI are automated...

 

I think ya'll have a misunderstanding of you both are talking about...

[_compton_]

It is very clear I understand. You did not read my text, you just saw I did not agree with you.

 

You clearly do not, as your ill-fitting steroids analogy illustrates. Your argument seems to be that you don't want to be forced to deal with the complexity of macros within the game and that if they were implemented you would be "forced" to use them to remain competitive. That, if anything, is a learn to play issue.

[Thaonnor]

You continually editing your posts is irritating cause it is hard to watch for continuity.

 

Your words are NOT out of context, they are broken up in order of your post.

 

I will be voting no for the push for macros in game.

 

The great thing is that we don't have to vote. The developers have already shown a lack of support for it, and the majority of players are getting along just fine without macros. This whole thread is simply arguing with someone who believes they speak for a large majority of the population when in fact he speaks to serve himself and his lack of ability to work with the current system (although he'll deny this until the day this thread is locked).

[_compton_]

Now you suddenly agree that there is in fact SOME automation, although minimal. We are finally getting somewhere!

 

Was it ever even suggested that there was not an element of automation in macros? It is inherent.

 

What has been argued is that despite the automation, certain factors cause the usage of said macros to increase complexity in a natural way that positively affects gameplay, rather than enforcing awkward, un-necessary halters on gameplay to artificially raise some arbitrary skill cap that seems more based on masochism than anything else.

Edited December 28, 2011 by _compton_

[Zoroth]

As long as the players who use the macros don't get too much an advantage over players who haven't yet learned to use them (or otherwise find it silly that you need to use macros in order to be on par with everyone else), then I support macros.

 

But personally, I don't see the problem. It would be a problem if it hampered my gameplay, but it doesn't because I'm able to deal with what I got and play well.

[NightHawke]

Let's talk exploits now.

 

Nevermind the PvP idiocies that will come out of enabling macros.

 

 

Now I have a level 10 character that I just mailed 2 million credits to.

 

So now I have him run in a circle with an elaborate macro to send out his pets to gather and do missions and craft different items. I just sit and wait a few days and now he is maxed in all his crew skills and level 10?

 

What is wrong with that? It is not hurting anyone?

 

Where does it end?

 

 

With all that WoW gave the MMO universe stuff, it also had some pretty awful things too. Like macros. As did SWG.

[Thaonnor]

Was it ever even suggested that there was not an element of automation in macros? It is inherent.

 

What has been argued is that despite the automation, certain factors cause the usage of said macros to increase complexity in a natural way that positively affects gameplay, rather than enforcing awkward, un-necessary halters on gameplay to artificially raise some arbitrary skill cap that seems more based on masochism than anything else.

 

Just a page back we had to post the mere definition of a macro in order to convince you. But I'm sure you have edited it out of your posts by now, so I won't continue to argue the point.

[NightHawke]

You clearly do not, as your ill-fitting steroids analogy illustrates. Your argument seems to be that you don't want to be forced to deal with the complexity of macros within the game and that if they were implemented you would be "forced" to use them to remain competitive. That, if anything, is a learn to play issue.

 

Oh... was that an attack on me dude? Really?

 

Did I not say I have used macros and would rather not resort to using them? How is that a learn to play issue?

 

Sounds to me you have the learn to play issue wanting the macros.

[_compton_]

As long as the players who use the macros don't get too much an advantage over players who haven't yet learned to use them (or otherwise find it silly that you need to use macros in order to be on par with everyone else), then I support macros.

 

But personally, I don't see the problem. It would be a problem if it hampered my gameplay, but it doesn't because I'm able to deal with what I got and play well.

 

Again, my motives are not selfish. I am currently at an advantage as things stand, the implementation of macro support within the game would remove that advantage, but positively influence the game overall.

 

@Th - Our opinions differ fundamentally, and that's okay. I'm not sure what purpose further argument will serve, other than constantly reiterating things that have already been said multiple times. Also, I don't get why you continue to persist in saying I ever claimed that macros were not inherently automated. You posted the definition by your own volition in order to make some ill-defined point, it was hardly new information to me.

 

@Night - I think you're still a bit confused as to what exactly this thread is in support of and what we're advocating for.

 

I've been "attacked" multiple times much more overtly, didn't bother me. You haven't addressed my arguments for wanting the particular macros I am advocating for in the game yet, which leads me to believe there's a lack of clarity.

Edited December 28, 2011 by _compton_

[NightHawke]

 

I've been "attacked" multiple times much more overtly, didn't bother me.

 

So because you get pushed around in the playground, it is ok to do it to others? Nice.

[_compton_]

So because you get pushed around in the playground, it is ok to do it to others? Nice.

 

No, I was merely stating fact, and perhaps implying that you should be a bit less sensitive when it comes to implied disparagement on an online video-game forum, is all.

 

In regards to my personal PvP performance - prior to the introduction of full macro support in WoW, I dealt with the combat as it stood. As SWTOR PvP stands now, I am playing near optimally as the systems in game allow me to - does that mean I don't think the game would benefit from the introduction of focus and mouseover macros? No, nor should it.

 

Again, the type of automation you are using in your examples and arguments is not what I am advocating for, nor do I support it.

 

A great deal of contention could be avoided if people would just read what's been posted prior to posting themselves.

Edited December 28, 2011 by _compton_

[Raggok]

you don't want to be forced to deal with the complexity of macros

 

LOL, the complexity of macros?

 

Macros make the game EASIER to play. What's wrong, trooper? You having problems managing your keybinds?

[NightHawke]

LOL, the complexity of macros?

 

Macros make the game EASIER to play. What's wrong, trooper? You having problems managing your keybinds?

 

Nutshell everything in it, it is.

[Raggok]

@Ragg - that type of thing is not what I or most of those in support of this are advocating for - again, actually reading the OP would really help.

 

I'd be okay with a very limited and restrictive macro system that avoids conditionals.

 

My concern is the "slippery slope" argument. I DO NOT want to see UI modifications that play the game for you, as there are in WoW.

[_compton_]

Nutshell everything in it, it is.

 

Again, you and I have an entirely different concept of what a macro is, particularly in the context of this thread. I have absolutely no difficulties excelling in SWTOR PvP, but my overall enjoyment is decreased by the absence of official support for certain features that I feel are vital, and that add complexity to the game in relatively indirect ways.

 

Not that this is relevant to the argument I'm trying to make, but you seem unable to move past the "automated" nature of macros and consider some of the deeper implications.

 

@Ragg - thanks for making an effort to understand what I'm actually advocating here. I'd fully support a limited implementation, I also would not like to see things devolve into a situation similar to Rift, as I feel that would negatively impact the game as a whole.

 

Bottom line here, my concern is for the state of the game and the enjoyment to be derived out of it, my motives are not selfish as I've pointed out, just want what I feel is best for the continued development and success of the game.

Edited December 28, 2011 by _compton_

[klathnagma]

Let's talk exploits now.

 

Nevermind the PvP idiocies that will come out of enabling macros.

 

 

Now I have a level 10 character that I just mailed 2 million credits to.

 

So now I have him run in a circle with an elaborate macro to send out his pets to gather and do missions and craft different items. I just sit and wait a few days and now he is maxed in all his crew skills and level 10?

 

What is wrong with that? It is not hurting anyone?

 

Where does it end?

 

 

With all that WoW gave the MMO universe stuff, it also had some pretty awful things too. Like macros. As did SWG.

You should not talk about macros if you don't know what they are.

 

If you are unable to take apart a bot and a macro, you have not enough knowledge on the issue to judge it.

 

Bots are coded outside the game and most likely there will be TOR bots, with or without a macro interface.

 

Bots don't use game's macro interfaces. In fact most bots juggle with data in memory and don't really care about what is going on in the game.

 

Macros don't let you do anything with your character if you are not playing it.

[Zarthorn]

Macros are not in for several reasons:

 

1. Goldbots, if there is no macro support, goldbots cannot thrive, nuff said really.

 

2. Multiboxing in pvp, a massive problem in Rift, some would say "kill the lead"...sure thing I'll try kill the front guy while his other 4 accounts that are following me nuke me down before I even get anywhere near.

 

3. Skillcap, this is simply non-existent when Macros dictate everything, Rift for me was so dumb when it came to the majority of content as you could really do everything with 2-3 button binds.

 

4. Exploiting GCD, Macros in some games (DCUO) could bypass the GCD through glitching animations, I wouldn't doubt with the combat system in SWTOR we would see this with a macro system.

 

5. Opens the floodgates for hacking, yes macros are the first step towards allowing someone to manipulate there client code to allow some of the more "soft hacks" to get through undetected, not something we want for SWTOR.

 

I will note macros done right can work, but I don't feel they are warranted in SWTOR and on the last point, remember I only ment for soft hacks (some part of speed hacks does involve macros to trigger the hack in some cases but not all) and I have actually noted some players have found glitches and exploits to bypass the system.

 

Only today I saw a Sorc running around in Bounty Hunter Heavy armor, the other day I saw another Sorc running around at the speed of light constantly, but these players will likely be caught and banned, because they are using 3rd party hacks that will be detectable....It would actually be harder to catch them if there was a macro system involved.

[NightHawke]

Not that this is relevant to the argument I'm trying to make, but you seem unable to move past the "automated" nature of macros and consider some of the deeper implications.

 

.

 

Push button X, enable macro to push button Y,Z,A,B now you just enabled an item buff, two attack moves and a heal. How is that not automated?

 

That is just macro lite.

 

You are talking about some serious macros with your OP. And that is just wrong.

[bobaTBS]

It takes OP 3 seconds to target, press interrupt and retarget his previous target. He is clearly at an advantage.

[ShadowSoljer]

let me try a blind shot

 

you are a SI or similar class that only needs 5 skills top to perform competitively, and would hate others to have an easy ride like you do because without that rtarded advantage then your "skill" wouldnt be up to the challenge

 

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

commando. thanks. oh and thanks.