Formal request to make this a sticky...

Bumpity dumpity bump... I had my suspicions on this, came to the forums, and bingo. Needs a fix!

/signed This would make SWTOR the very best MMO for PVP. Just showing my support : )

Kinda squishy though... No mobility. Love Creeping Terror though.

Yeah I used to have the same spec... Then I thought what difference does a 350 heal make anyway? And that's with a 4.5 second internal CD... I'm not sure it works very well on PvP and I'd like to see someone defend that in PvE.. I liked when Battle Readiness increased healing by 300%, that was pretty cool. Now they take it out and reduce the internal CD to 3 second with BR on? Makes no sense to me.

I use a slight variation: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200ruMokrskZZf0cRrMz.1 But it's up to the player really, you have the important stuff there.

If SS worked (I know), then infiltration would actually be quite viable if you can get someone with zero resolve, and just stunlock them and spam SS in the middle by using blackout. That's what I figured initially. Then I actually tried to do it and... Yeah...

Which reminds me... Force Lift is broken too right? I don't use it that much but when I do... it doesn't really break on damage and the target takes less damage per hit?!?! What's that about?

Haha yeah I mean... 21/0/18 is best, don't get me wrong.. The sad part is I don't really play that much lol Like 2 hours a day... I barely touch the game on the weekends... I just like theorycrafting : P

I don't anymore but if you're specced Inflitration you have Shadow's Respite so you can get off at least 1 and not really "feel it" in terms of Force cost. Of course, if you're inf you should open with Spinning Kick anyhow. There's a potential stun-lock there because if you do Spinning Kick->Low Slash->Force Stun, you can actually get all those off provided the target has zero resolve when you start. I tried to use it but I didn't have enough gear and also SS is just broken so I kept wasting time... And burning CD's in the process..

Combat Technique But I never did PvP as full infilatration. This is the spec I used: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601ruMokMMZhGrMk0r0zZc.1 Which is more a hybrid but you need some talents in kinetic combat anyhow. Mind over Mater comes to mind. Particle acceleration (procs all the time, insta-crit on project, eliminates CD issue) is amazing too... Elusiveness for reduced CC on resilience, you get the picture. You also have better Force regen in case you want to spam SS (good luck with that). Still I switched over to 21/0/18 because I wanted some ranged abilities and more Force attacks that ignore armor (I was sick of not doing enough damage to heavy armor classes)

When I switched to that spec, I had to get used to it at first but I noticed the increased damage+greater survivability right off the bat. The spec is clearly superior at this point. The only thing you'll miss is Low Slash.

The problem with Force Breach is you have to use Shadow Technique, which of course makes you super squishy and you can't proc particle acceleration with it so... I personally think it's a no go. Unless you flat out out-gear everyone else.

Awesome! just awesome! And I'm guessing if you add both crit+surge relics you should see some flamboyant numbers pop up I always figured with this spec and with all the procs+favorable RNG that Project was the heavy hitter, I just thought we were talking 3k-3.5k. Anything above 4k sounds great!

I'm not geared yet and I'm valor rank 40 but.. 5k Project? Really? Hooray! My faith is restored!! Now if only it was instant as they say it is...

The suggestion is definitely misplaced as standing behind someone is really easy, doesn't take any skill. The problem of course is the game doesn't work very well so you may see you're standing behind someone, when in reality you're not and all the sudden the target pops up a few meters from you... Turns out that's where they were all along and you couldn't see that due to lag/poor coding. The ability is indeed broken but I don't think they need to remove the standing behind target requirement... They just need to fix it so it does what it says on the label. And by the way, taking about 1.5 seconds to actually get the attack of is plain dumb. Happens with spinning strike too. Guy is at low health, you use spinning strike, guy runs away because it takes to long to make the hit. And the elephant in the room is project. I hate project, it takes about 2 seconds for it to hit, it's ridiculous. I can't tell how many times I've died because my target and I were both at low health, I use my ability FIRST, but it takes so long to land I get killed anyway. It's frustrating and it's plain wrong considering Assassins don't have this issue.

I tried 17/21/3 for a while for PvP and it just doesn't work. You have no burst and shadow strike, let's just say it doesn't work as intended for the time being. Errors in coding and ability delay are more than enough to make someone think you're stupid because you just stunned them and are not doing anything. I figured 23/0/18 by myself, just trying out different things. The fact everyone else seems to use it (beg to differ, but I've seen others with the same spec) tells me it simply is the best. Nice burst, some ranged attacks, the best survivability (without going all out Kinetic Combat) and of course, Force Pull (I've won Huttball matches thanks to that puppy).

Yeah... No... I don't know about other classes, but I play Shadow, and the PvE spec is quite different from the PvP spec I found works best. Basically, in PvP you want survivability and control and trade off some DPS for that. In PvE, you want just the opposite, you want to maximize your damage output with complete disregard of things like your armor or defensive CD's (broadly speaking). And 2 characters?! So I should have 2 identical characters, except one is specced for PvP and the other for PvE? That sounds like something reasonable to you? Because from where I'm standng it sounds mind-numbingly stupid. I'd call that a design flaw.

Why are dual specs needed? Simple: Some people like doing both PvP and PvE, and with the current configuration, that means respeccing about 2 to 4 times a day. It's dumb. And the people saying it "makes the game easy". I beg to differ, the option to respec is already available, it's just expensive and annoying. On top of that, why should I be confined to one aspect of the game? Why doesn't the game allow me to enjoy the PvE and PvP aspects of the it? When this was introduced in WoW, it was LONG overdue. Just like they recently introduced the feature where you have to confirm talent points after allocating them. Oh yeah, it's too easy now, if you make a mistake and click the wrong talent, you can just undo it. Yeah they're destroying that game. Some of these features are common sense and need to be there. You're not making the game easier in any way. You still need the gear, you still need the skill, but at least you'll see properly specced players in both PvE and PvP.

I blame their OP bubble.

Ahh! Our very first Op apologist!! They still hit the hardest, operatives that is. Burst goes a LONG way in PvP. But I think we all agree Sorcs come right after.

Would you mind linking your spec? I'm kinda curious as to what the best spec for assassin is.

So Sorcerers would come second to Ops... But they're still pretty good I tell you. Maybe it's because I'm Shadow (Assassin) myself and I have the hardest time getting through that bubble, and when I finally do, I'm already dead. But you said it yourself, they do, still, hit pretty hard.

Hahaha, amen brother!

Yeah I've seen hits of 5k+, but not on a consistent basis. In any case, other classes seem to be around 3k at most. Also, this is just what I've observed, it is by no means final judgement. I don't claim to have all the knowledge, again it's just what I've seen. Sorcs do seem to be hitting for more than other classes, outside the operative.