Is this lack of communication normal?

[Transcendent]

This is a GREAT point!!! It's a little on the brash side, but it's still full of truth.

 

Announcement of an announcement of an announcement.

 

We should be used to this by now though? Valid point above about KotET developers now and not SWTOR developers, this game has moved away from being "all inclusive" to being pretty much whatever it is now (Online RPG perhaps?).

 

You have to wonder why people think the game is dying, especially when you look at your own personal friends list and only see 2 of however many players still login to the game. Lack of consistent communication from the developers certainly aids that perception, sadly.

 

I don't for one second believe that EA, Disney and Lucas Arts continue to stand behind this game in support, otherwise we would be seeing expansions on a more frequent basis as well as increasing all of the content types to cater to the broad player base this game has had.

[Ambramotte]

BW works on KotET. That's their new game. Before it was KotFE. That's what they inform about. That's what they have in mind. Swtor, as in vanilla state for example, is not a game they work on anymore. Partially, they can (or have to) touch things there, because they are connected to the new games they added and add.

 

If you see it that way, then one big part of the communication issues here is that most of the forumers here are Swtor players, but the devs are KotET-devs. They are simply on another level. I don't know if what I try to say here makes much sense to you (not so easy to put my complex thoughts about this to english words), but maybe some of you understand what I mean.

 

I think this nails it on the head. The problem is that some folks have been hanging on by a thread in 4.0 in hopes of new ops. The lack of clear communication from BWA has allowed them to justify hanging around even though the game is significantly changing direction. At this point though, if BW doesn't clearly state that there are new ops and provides a timetable that the community finds reasonable, I can't imagine the last of the folks staying around.

[Acemapsc]

[*]Your last question I cannot answer since you are asking about content/gearing in Eternal Throne. More coming on that later.

 

-eric

 

I still don't understand why it is so hard for you guys to answer the simple question on whether you all plan on adding new ops. We don't need details about them just that you are actively working on them. And no I don't mean your extremely vague answer of "group content" .

 

Its a simple Yes or No questions

 

Unless you know no one is going to like your answer and you just plan on stringing everyone along for another year.

 

I have no problems waiting.

 

I do have a problem being lied to and strung along.

[Ambramotte]

I still don't understand why it is so hard for you guys to answer the simple question on whether you all plan on adding new ops. We don't need details about them just that you are actively working on them. And no I don't mean your extremely vague answer of "group content" .

 

Its a simple Yes or No questions

 

Unless you know no one is going to like your answer and you just plan on stringing everyone along for another year.

 

I have no problems waiting.

 

I do have a problem being lied to and strung along.

 

Here's the deal, they're not going to answer your question directly in the way you want. As much as I want them too, it's just not going to happen. If there isn't a clear and specific announcement on 7 October about group content (FPs & Ops) that you like, then you can assume at this point that it's not going to happen .... ever. They're not selling the SWTOR you remember, they're selling KOTET. They're also not going to tell you a direct "yes or no" so, at this point and with regard to their behavior to date, you have to assume "no" unless you hear a resounding "yes" on October 7. For myself and a lot of folks I run with, some shaded half answer on Oct 7 isn't going to cut it. Don't let them string you along .... too many other options out there.

[_NovaBlast_]

thought this quote from a similar thread was relevant. ..sighs..

 

Oh I don't know...good business practices and community relations maybe, silly things like that.

Why would they? The inmates are running the asylum around here.

 

 

LOL QFT...

 

i rarely post on here anymore ... but i just had to give this comment a +1

 

The op just proves so much salt and players thinking they are on the board the directors and entitled to full disclosure for being a "customer" ...i even see posts that seem to imply bioware needs to "ask permission" before making changes. **facepalm** Most of the time its just the niche crowd that makes the most noise ( raiders pvp min/maxers ) and is not accurate sampling of the general player base as a whole.

 

Really sometimes i dont think some people realize really just how minuscule the people who post on the forum or social media is compared to the actual active player base. Devs in general make decisions based on metrics of all kinds they gather from day to day use of their programs ...not what is posted on forums

[CaptRogue]

thought this quote from a similar thread was relevant. ..sighs..

 

Except, it itsn't.

 

No matter where you stand on what BW is doing, per a good proper running business you are required to have open communication. This isn't the government where they can be silent.

If they want their money to stay running, they have to be open in communication. They have to talk.

 

As for their "metrics" as they have mentioned. They fix their metrics to read how they want to read it. Which is a horribly sad thing to base a game that centers around content for all sorts of people. Because as it is now, they have alienated 3 or more different playing groups. They have even alienated the people who wanted story because the "story" they produced was not at all like previous story telling nor even flowed properly.

 

So yes, say what you want per the "doom & gloom" crowd, BW is killing themselves in the game with their non-existent communication & ignoring of problems.

[PlasmaJohn]

I still don't understand why it is so hard for you guys to answer the simple question on whether you all plan on adding new ops. We don't need details about them just that you are actively working on them. And no I don't mean your extremely vague answer of "group content" .

 

Its a simple Yes or No questions

I'm not sure "yes or no" or even "we're working on them" is good enough. It certainly wouldn't be good enough for me. At the very least I'd need estimated targets (it'll show up on the PTS during $month).

 

They'd also need to demonstrate that they understand progression raiding and scrap their "Highlighted Hardmode". Really it needs to be retooled but I have no hope they'll do that right so it need to be binned.

[Andryah]

Here's the deal, they're not going to answer your question directly in the way you want. As much as I want them too, it's just not going to happen. If there isn't a clear and specific announcement on 7 October about group content (FPs & Ops) that you like, then you can assume at this point that it's not going to happen .... ever. They're not selling the SWTOR you remember, they're selling KOTET. They're also not going to tell you a direct "yes or no" so, at this point and with regard to their behavior to date, you have to assume "no" unless you hear a resounding "yes" on October 7. For myself and a lot of folks I run with, some shaded half answer on Oct 7 isn't going to cut it. Don't let them string you along .... too many other options out there.

 

Accurate assessment, IMO.

 

Not what some people want to hear, but from a pragmatic standpoint.. it is what it is. People demanding otherwise are wasting their time and energy, and probably amping up their own frustration levels in the process.

 

People seem to forget that MMOs change over time, sometimes for the good in a players eyes, sometimes not. It's not like we the players have any direct say in the direction of the game, much less specific content. Suggest, ask, present ideas and suggestions... absolutely. Expecting them to listen to every special interest group in an MMO.. is unrealistic. And frankly... MMOs communities are nothing more then a conglomeration of special interests who seldom agree with each other on content, features, priorities. I think most players however in this MMO agree on the IP being a common interest.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Andryah

[Andryah]

They'd also need to demonstrate that they understand progression raiding and scrap their "Highlighted Hardmode". Really it needs to be retooled but I have no hope they'll do that right so it need to be binned.

 

Why?

 

Maybe they simply see little actual return on effort to keep pumping out progression style raiding. Progression raiding is certainly NOT a growing segment of the MMO market. But it does have a strong embedded set of players who are fans of it in the MMO market. So the market does need to serve progression raiders at this point, but it may simply not be this particular MMO that does so.

 

Not every MMO can be all things to all people, so maybe progression raiding is simply not core to SWTOR moving forward. They may very well do more casual friendly OPs in the future, but they have nixed the hardcore OPs moving forward if I recall correctly.

 

If progression raiding is your thing.. then by all means, if I were you I would be pursuing MMOs that give you what you desire. You can also play multiple MMOs, different ones for different strengths. Some people do, myself included.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Andryah

[Radzkie]

I still don't understand why it is so hard for you guys to answer the simple question on whether you all plan on adding new ops. We don't need details about them just that you are actively working on them. And no I don't mean your extremely vague answer of "group content" .

 

Its a simple Yes or No questions

 

Unless you know no one is going to like your answer and you just plan on stringing everyone along for another year.

 

I have no problems waiting.

 

I do have a problem being lied to and strung along.

I want them to give a clear, honest answer too so the remaining raiders can finally leave and move on. Not being rude. I'm a former hardcore swtor raider. My entire guild left the game and moved onto FFXIV long ago. It's painful to see raiders still here hoping for something that (IMO) will never come.

 

I sub for the story and nostalgia now, that's why I can still post.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Radzkie

[Dak_fireraker]

I didn't mean to be a rule breaker and hi-jack your thread!

 

-eric

 

If the community manger is breaking forum rules (Eric) does that mean Tait gets to issue a ban & take over?

 

[DarthWoad]

Suggest, ask, present ideas and suggestions... absolutely. Expecting them to listen to every special interest group in an MMO.. is unrealistic. And frankly... MMOs communities are nothing more then a conglomeration of special interests who seldom agree with each other on content, features, priorities. I think most players however in this MMO agree on the IP being a common interest.

 

/Disagree

/I disagree with this assessment

 

I get the impression you don't like the idea of any internet forum or anyone that doesn't praise the game. IMO

Edited September 15, 2016 by DarthWoad

[TUXs]

Why?

 

So the market does need to serve progression raiders at this point, but it may simply not be this particular MMO that does so.

And this particular MMO DID just that, that's why people are asking if it still will in the future, or if Bioware has given up on it.

[PlasmaJohn]

Maybe they simply see little actual return on effort to keep pumping out progression style raiding.

Then they need to be honest and state they're done providing raid content. Since many believe that to be a "win" frankly I'm surprised they haven't. Unless it's not a "win" and they don't want to lose what's left of the raid community.

 

Progression raiding is certainly NOT a growing segment of the MMO market.

Funny, my raid team seems to be growing rather quickly. Different MMO of course. Perhaps you forgot the "IMO"?

 

Not every MMO can be all things to all people ...

If they want to be AAA they do. That's why so many MMO's not named WoW are struggling. They either overfocused on one aspect or underserved others.

 

If progression raiding is your thing.. then by all means, if I were you I would be pursuing MMOs that give you what you desire.

Seems pretty obvious to me, that's why another MMO gets my continued sub and SW:TOR... doesn't.

[AlCorazon]

Hey folks,

 

I thought this thread was a good opportunity to talk about the communication as of late. Although I may not post every day, I am definitely here, reading the forums. I know that there is frustration right now because you are all eager to learn more about what is coming in Knights of the Eternal Throne. We just aren't ready to talk about Eternal Throne yet, and so I can't answer your questions at this time.

 

But, I do want to make sure you know when we will begin really talking about Eternal Throne. That date is October 7th. The day/night of our New York Comic-con Cantina is when you can expect details about Eternal Throne. Once we have crossed the 7th (and through launch), I will be able to address questions in the forum more directly, we will be posting developer blogs related to the expansion, and more.

 

I know this post is an announcement of an announcement but were almost there, only a few more weeks.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

So no one is going to address the issues of ranked pvp? Not existing rewards people were sc****** tokens for entire season? Well i couldn't care less about KOTET however the other issue could be addressed.

[Andryah]

Then they need to be honest and state they're done providing raid content. Since many believe that to be a "win" frankly I'm surprised they haven't. Unless it's not a "win" and they don't want to lose what's left of the raid community.

 

Gaming studios will rarely ever box themselves in with absolute statements such as you are demanding.

 

They did however tell progression raiders that 4.0 was the end of the road. Nightmare Mode (NiM) Operations exist for 5 Operations, and BioWare said in live streams last year that no more will be made going forward either. Period... full stop.

 

No such statement was made by them about Story or Hardmode OPs, or any other types of group content. So it is reasonable to expect we will see more of these, but when and how is TBD. They are not going to comment on TBDs... never have, likely never will.

[DarthWoad]

Then they need to be honest and state they're done providing raid content. Since many believe that to be a "win" frankly I'm surprised they haven't. Unless it's not a "win" and they don't want to lose what's left of the raid community.

 

 

Funny, my raid team seems to be growing rather quickly. Different MMO of course. Perhaps you forgot the "IMO"?

 

 

If they want to be AAA they do. That's why so many MMO's not named WoW are struggling. They either overfocused on one aspect or underserved others.

 

 

Seems pretty obvious to me, that's why another MMO gets my continued sub and SW:TOR... doesn't.

 

I agree, seems like he forgot to add IMO at the end. He's just trying to "present opinoin as fact"

 

Oh and reading that you aren't subbed to SWTOR anymore, I understand that you have some days left on your account, wihch is why you're able to post here. I'm intelligent enough not to question you about your subscription or why you're here, i know you're just making use of the time left here to put forward your views about the game (which is what forums are for)

Edited September 15, 2016 by DarthWoad

[Nebdar]

Maybe an simple question with yes/no answer..

 

1. Do you plan any live stream between today and 07th October?

2. Do you plan post any announcement/fun fact/ anything related to game other the maintenance info?

3. Could you post the same infos/pictures/messages/questions that you tweet on twitter here on SWTOR forums?

[Jamtas]

Gaming studios will rarely ever box themselves in with absolute statements such as you are demanding.

 

They did however tell progression raiders that 4.0 was the end of the road. Nightmare Mode (NiM) Operations exist for 5 Operations, and BioWare said in live streams last year that no more will be made going forward either. Period... full stop.

 

No such statement was made by them about Story or Hardmode OPs, or any other types of group content. So it is reasonable to expect we will see more of these, but when and how is TBD. They are not going to comment on TBDs... never have, likely never will.

 

So do you think it would be a fair request for them to come out and say either "we currently have no plans for a new operation", "we have been working on a new operation but not ready to talk about it yet" or "we have some ideas for a new operation, but no current timeline"

 

I think any of those 3 answers would go an extremely long way in quieting that discussion down.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Jamtas

[Saregon]

Carrot on a stick...they can't string you along if they tell you everything you want isn't coming. The test of the wallet tolerance, how long do you wait until you stop paying? It's pretty clear that quite a lot of people have passed or are reaching that threshold. Silence buys them some time, how much depends on us.

[Andryah]

So do you think it would be a fair request for them to come out and say either "we currently have no plans for a new operation", "we have been working on a new operation but not ready to talk about it yet" or "we have some ideas for a new operation, but no current timeline"

 

I think any of those 3 answers would go an extremely long way in quieting that discussion down.

 

People can ask. It's unlikely they will say anything prior to 10/7 though, as they have already drawn that line in the sand. Eric has 4 reponse posts in this thread and it's clear in reading them.. he's not going to reveal anything until 10/7.

 

And frankly, we don't actually need to know. Some of us want to know... actually most of us probably do... but we can't play it yet, so we really don't need to know what is in 5.0 yet. And the "I need to know so I know whether to continue my sub" argument is specious IMO. You can sub/unsub at any time in this game and if unsubbed, you can still play the game if you want.

 

Like it or not, like most studios... they don't comment on future content until they are A) ready to....or B) are simply wanting to fluff up excitement with the player base. Blizzard loves to use peaky-boo on the next expac to fluff up player excitement.. which has been known to come back and bite them later. Bioware does not follow this practice. Like it or not.. it is what it is.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Andryah

[DarthWoad]

And frankly, we don't actually need to know. Some of us want to know... actually most of us probably do... but we can't play it yet, so we really don't need to know what is in 5.0 yet.

 

Actually, paying customers need to know if they want to continue their sub or not, which you fantastically invalidated your argument by yourself:

 

And the "I need to know so I know whether to continue my sub" argument is specious IMO. You can sub/unsub at any time in this game and if unsubbed, you can still play the game if you want.

 

Yes, "IMO". An opinion which is in the absolute minority. People need to know whats coming so they can choose whether to stop playing entirely if they don't like what's coming, or they can continue subscribing to access the content. But of course, Bioware likes to make people wait, which is what's making them lose subs. And that argument is 100% perfectly valid......IMO

 

Like it or not, like most studios... they don't comment on future content until they are A) ready to....or B) are simply wanting to fluff up excitement with the player base. Blizzard loves to use peaky-boo on the next expac to fluff up player excitement.. which has been known to come back and bite them later. Bioware does not follow this practice. Like it or not.. it is what it is.

 

And "what it is" is losing more and more subscribers every day

Edited September 15, 2016 by DarthWoad

[Bruticis]

Yes, "IMO". An opinion which is in the absolute minority.

 

Care to cite your source? Again, rhetorical question.

[Jamtas]

People can ask. It's unlikely they will say anything prior to 10/7 though, as they have already drawn that line in the sand. Eric has 4 reponse posts in this thread and it's clear in reading them.. he's not going to reveal anything until 10/7.

 

And frankly, we don't actually need to know. Some of us want to know... actually most of us probably do... but we can't play it yet, so we really don't need to know what is in 5.0 yet. And the "I need to know so I know whether to continue my sub" argument is specious IMO. You can sub/unsub at any time in this game and if unsubbed, you can still play the game if you want.

 

Like it or not, like most studios... they don't comment on future content until they are A) ready to....or B) are simply wanting to fluff up excitement with the player base. Blizzard loves to use peaky-boo on the next expac to fluff up player excitement.. which has been known to come back and bite them later. Bioware does not follow this practice. Like it or not.. it is what it is.

 

I just feel the current model is doing 2 things: (*IMO)

 

1) Angering the base. An angered base is also less likely to be happy with what you've delivered negating the wait after all

2) Instilling ill will. Getting strung along and then finally leaving folks are less likely to return than those who left amicably and may return when content they desire is added

[DarthWoad]

Care to cite your source? Again, rhetorical question.

 

Well, Andryah, common sense doesn't really need a link or a webpage. But i'd be happy to tell you the facts/common knowledge about this particular subject. And it's common knowledge that people want to know what they will be getting when they spend their money (taking pre orders out of the argument for now). Some people don't want to wait for something they know will never come, and so they will unsubscribe. Others remain subscribed in the hope that the content fulfills their needs. Still, the silence means Bioware is losing subs daily.

Edited September 15, 2016 by DarthWoad