Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[OklahomaSooner]

Why are you people defending a nerf that made Slicing entirely useless? Please answer this question.

 

It wasn't an adjustment that made it balanced, it made it so that you lose money or don't make any profit the majority of the time.

[Kashaan]

And this is where you're wrong.

 

Making money cost TIME. Slicing works just like any other profession. It cost money and time to send crew on missions, and our reward was money.

 

You spend time and money on missions, and your reward is MATS. Which you then use to craft EQUIPMENT which you then either:

 

A) Use to save you money that you otherwise would have needed to spend on equipment

 

or

 

B) Sell for a profit.

 

 

Do you still not get it? Slicing and any other profession all leads to the same place: Money. Either saving it by not buying mats/gear, or spending it to get said mats/gear.

 

*sigh*

[Kesh]

Honestly - I want to understand what the purpose of Slicing was, and what Bioware thinks Slicing is supposed to be.

 

Is it really supposed to make money? if so, it's failing to do so now. If it wasn't? what was the point of it? Augments? I find them really useless, and they don't sell well on GTN.

 

I think removing Slicing would have been better than this nerf, perhaps that's where it's going.

 

Either way, sign me up as another disappointed TOR player.

[RandyMcStud]

I am only choosing Bountiful/Rich Yield missions. bro.

 

Simply put, there is not enough profit when you factor in that 1/3 of the time your mission just fails, 1/3 of the time you just lose money, and then 1/3 of the time you get a profit that is not very large. That doesn't count the rare critical proc, however.

 

The above is not acceptable when I am investing 30 minutes in one mission.

 

Youre not investing 30 mins in a mission, you are investing 2 seconds in clicking a button once every 30 mins, and your alternative would be to loose money in another profession.

[EvanSnowWolf]

Why is it wrong for the game to get inflation at level 10 from Slicing alts but it is okay for the game to get inflation at level 50 from end gamers doing "dailies" or just farming max level mobs?

[Contumelious]

Whoa! When did you put a camera in my room!

 

I've spent a LOT of money on the AH for MATERIALS FOR CRAFTING that I can't get myself.

 

Seriously... you need to consider all options and follow thoughts through to conclusion before you make uninformed posts.

 

How do you figure crafting materials equal crafted equipment? I quite purposefully talked about the crafted equipment.

 

Also, let me make something very clear for you. My main has synthweaving, archaeology and underworld trading.

 

Underworld trading is a mission skill required for the rare materials in synthweaving.

Let's assume you have synthweaving and archaeology, alongside slicing of course.

 

I spend thousands and thousands of credits levelling my underworld trading(mission skill only levelled by doing companion missions, you know) while you are earning(pre-nerf, I assume, and post-nerf not including world nodes) thousands and thousands of credits levelling your skill.

 

I eventually end up needed 2 demicot silks, or whatever, on level 20. I get them from a 800 credit mission in underworld trading. A skill that cost me thousands to get to this point.

 

You go to the AH and if you're really unlucky, have to pay twice the price.

 

You have earned a lot of a money levelling your skill, while I have paid a lot of money.

 

You are still on easily the sweetest side of that deal.

 

Do you get it now? Please.

[Kashaan]

Costs time?

 

You mean the whole 15 seconds at most it takes to open a crew skills menu and then send your companions on missions?

 

That's not much of a cost. And I can't imagine that you are just sitting there watching the clock while they are on crew skills.

 

 

"Snipping" it because you can't argue against the points I made, huh?

 

 

I spend money to make money.

 

You spend money to make mats, which turn into money (either by selling the mats or by using them to make gear).

 

In the end, we are both spending money to make money. Only difference is how that money is "made". You make the money by saving money on mats for equipment. I make money directly then use that money to get the mats I can't get otherwise.

[VioletZero]

*snip*

 

I fail to understand how lockbox missions actually cost time. Unless you literally just sit there and watch the bars fill up while they're doing the crew skill.

 

By implying that because they end up at the same place that they are the same thing is a huge fallacy. Because the steps taken to get there are important. Especially since there IS a cost involved with other skills. Where as with slicing, there is none.

Edited December 28, 2011 by VioletZero

[Zennshi]

On that note, the bigger issue seems to be with crafting as a whole.

 

No one buys green gear because of how easily it is replaced.

 

The only decent gear that people will buy requires you to RI the hell out of crafted items.

 

To do this you need LOTS of materials, which means LOTS of time invested for the CHANCE at a return and EVEN THEN, people might not want to buy it because they will outlevel it very very fast due to the pacing of the game itself.

 

This is the crux of the issue, the crafting skills are just bad unless you dump a ridiculous amount of time and money into it. Which just undermines the point of picking up a profession.

[Contumelious]

This is a well known fact, and this is on bioware.

 

The fact that you can get better gear for being harpderp imma pvptard lulz. Is beyond stupid.

 

That ruins games. When you have to compete with vendors for profits? That screws your crafting systems.

 

But nerfing slicing is not going to change this, so this nerf was unnecessary.

 

Well, at least slicing is as useless as everything else now.

 

I will easily admit myself to being bitter and frustrated-- But of course I am, when I gain nothing from levelling any of my skills, while people with slicing (pre-nerf only, I assume?) "earned" a lot of credits doing the same thing that cost me a lot of credits.

[pryt]

Btw., I will start a Skill 300 purple Slicing Mission now.

 

 

~~~~~

Hidden in the Jungle - 1h 54m 40s - Cost: Cr 2570

 

The ornate golden locker you found hides the encryption key to a data cache on Onderon. Send your companion to locate it.

 

Wealthy yield: Level 42 - 48 Augments and Class 5 Lockboxes.

~~~~

 

I will let you know the results and yields. Mako will need only 1h 30m for it to finish, thanks to her efficiency.

Edited December 28, 2011 by pryt

[Aricus]

Look to the people who are complaining about this change, the problem is fairly simple, to level all other crafting and mission professions, it costs a fair bit of money. Slicing was having good enough returns that you were guaranteed to generate significant money over time, especially when you can start sending 3+ companions and still have a companion out, whereas for other professions, this simply made losses even steeper.

 

What does this mean? It means, for first time alts especially, slicing is unambiguously the better choice, so everyone gravitates towards slicing and away from everything else, everyone one has loads of easy money, and very few people are actually gathering stuff from the alternatives to slicing. Demand is large and supply is small. That just causes prices to skyrocket, and it will make everything more expensive, which hurts especially those who dont want to bother with crew skills, or dont want to spend the considerable ammount of time needed to manage auctions of your stuff. It also makes the game less interesting, by removing meaningful choices, and delaying the availability of gear from the alternatives to slicing untill people start leveling their alts.

 

For the above reasons, nerfing slicing was a no brainer. Maybe it needs to provide better rewards for things other than cash, but complaining that you can no longer get 1-3k every 30 mins per companion not presently in use, without having to do anything other than click a button, is just plain silly. And telling people who arent slicers that them having an inferior profession and rampant inflation of their server's economy (so they can recieve your devalued money when you buy their stuff, money that would be worth more and you could have gotten by other means without slicing being in its prenerf form) is in their interest is even sillier.

 

Also, ive leveled 3 professions, not sold a thing on AH, am not a slicer, and could easily afford speeder training at 25, and already have the money for level 40 training, at 39, so claims that this training will be massively delayed because of this is total crap.

 

Best post in this thread.

[Kashaan]

How do you figure crafting materials equal crafted equipment? I quite purposefully talked about the crafted equipment.

 

Because they do. Crafting materials are used to make crafted equipment.

 

 

 

I spend thousands and thousands of credits levelling my underworld trading(mission skill only levelled by doing companion missions, you know) while you are earning(pre-nerf, I assume, and post-nerf not including world nodes) thousands and thousands of credits levelling your skill.

 

And you could sell either your mats or your equipment crafted from those mats for profit. Exact same Ends as Slicing, just different means.

[gabusan]

So, slicing wasnt part of a master plan in innovative economy for mmo, but bioware not knowing what they were doing?

[ryancwn]

Youre not investing 30 mins in a mission, you are investing 2 seconds in clicking a button once every 30 mins, and your alternative would be to loose money in another profession.

 

For other gathering profession, you can gain money by selling mats or use the mats and selling gear or simply craft the gear and not spend a dime on gear and still do fine. But slicer gain nothing AT ALL except augment which you need to craft exceptionally to get a augment slot. Simply put, slicing is worthless if not for the money.

 

Those who lose money for crafting are those who craft constantly and reverse engineer to get a blue / purple schematic and buying all schematic and skill. You need better money management instead of crying imbalance. I can buy my speeder at lv 25 in beta without doing any slicing.

[Contumelious]

Because they do. Crafting materials are used to make crafted equipment.

 

 

 

 

 

And you could sell either your mats or your equipment crafted from those mats for profit. Exact same Ends as Slicing, just different means.

 

Except I need those mats to level my synthweaving.

 

You enjoy the luxury of getting the basic materials from archaeology and also have tons of credits left of from having taken slicing over underworld trading.

 

Are you really this dense, or are you being purposefully obtuse now? Are you trolling? I don't even know any more. I apologise if you're not, but this really should be very apparent.

 

EDIT:

I already explained how you can't sell crafted equipment.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Contumelious

[Aricus]

On that note, the bigger issue seems to be with crafting as a whole.

 

No one buys green gear because of how easily it is replaced.

 

The only decent gear that people will buy requires you to RI the hell out of crafted items.

 

To do this you need LOTS of materials, which means LOTS of time invested for the CHANCE at a return and EVEN THEN, people might not want to buy it because they will outlevel it very very fast due to the pacing of the game itself.

 

This is the crux of the issue, the crafting skills are just bad unless you dump a ridiculous amount of time and money into it. Which just undermines the point of picking up a profession.

 

I kind of agree here.

 

I simply think that crafts (outside endgame crafts) will benefit the alts more so than the first timers.

[RandyMcStud]

Why is it wrong for the game to get inflation at level 10 from Slicing alts but it is okay for the game to get inflation at level 50 from end gamers doing "dailies" or just farming max level mobs?

 

Doing dailies is a time sink, ie what an mmo maker wants. Free money that doesnt require you to stop doing anything else makes those timesinks less attractive options, which is not what mmos makers want. MMOs only want time savers which make the game more fun, and thus make people stick with it. Time savers that annoy everyone who doesnt have access to that time saver (none slicers) is the worst of both worlds.

[ryancwn]

On that note, the bigger issue seems to be with crafting as a whole.

 

No one buys green gear because of how easily it is replaced.

 

The only decent gear that people will buy requires you to RI the hell out of crafted items.

 

To do this you need LOTS of materials, which means LOTS of time invested for the CHANCE at a return and EVEN THEN, people might not want to buy it because they will outlevel it very very fast due to the pacing of the game itself.

 

This is the crux of the issue, the crafting skills are just bad unless you dump a ridiculous amount of time and money into it. Which just undermines the point of picking up a profession.

 

Actually, those who are broke are those who reverse engineering the hell out of it trying to gain a blue / purple schematic. If you are leveling crafting for your own green gear, you won't be broke.

 

People won't buy green gear because they can be replace and blue gear is not worth it for the money sink. low level blue and purple gear are for alt. You are suppose to level up crafting with your level and replace any under level gear.

Edited December 28, 2011 by ryancwn

[Fenius]

Slicing got hit to hard, it needed a nerf not a nuke. Slicing is a hacking gathering profession requiring you in effect to steal money. That's right your a thief. Having said this it still needed to be nerfed due to its insane rewards. However, at max level you should not be loosing money 75% of the time during your theft. Yes the missions should be adjusted to reflect the actually player being involved however. Bottom line in my opinion it was nuked because some one got really jumpy about its profits, which should have happened. Now tweek it back up and follow the policy of other mmo's that have done the same. You will find the balance.

 

To those freaking out, IT WILL GET FIXED. This is what happens in mmo's when a large imbalance is found. IT gets nerfed into the ground and slowly reworked. If BW follows this policy. If not it may be a big mistake for crafting in general. Vast majorities of players do not like "grinds" or useless skills with stupid low proc rates.

[Arkteruss]

Well, at least slicing is as useless as everything else now.

 

I will easily admit myself to being bitter and frustrated-- But of course I am, when I gain nothing from levelling any of my skills, while people with slicing (pre-nerf only, I assume?) "earned" a lot of credits doing the same thing that cost me a lot of credits.

 

 

Well, if the case is "No one buys my **** on the auction house" then the solution isn't "I'm mad, so lets nerf the skill that gives people money to buy **** on the auction house." It's "make crafted **** better, so theres incentive to buy it."

 

Buff crafted items, not nerf slicing.

[EvanSnowWolf]

Doing dailies is a time sink, ie what an mmo maker wants. Free money that doesnt require you to stop doing anything else makes those timesinks less attractive options, which is not what mmos makers want. MMOs only want time savers which make the game more fun, and thus make people stick with it. Time savers that annoy everyone who doesnt have access to that time saver (none slicers) is the worst of both worlds.

 

So... instead of everyone being fair to the system we make it so that level 10s are paying 10,000 credits for a level 8 gun because of inflation caused by level 50 grind farmers?

 

Sounds fair. /sarcasm

[Kashaan]

Except I need those mats to level my synthweaving.

 

 

Yeah, and I need the money from Slicing to buy the mats I can't get myself to level my Synthweaving.

 

 

I know you don't want to admit that both paths lead to the same point, but your dancing around the truth is starting to get pathetic.

[Contumelious]

Actually, those who are broke are those who reverse engineering the hell out of it trying to gain a blue / purple schematic. If you are leveling crafting for your own green gear, you won't be broke.

 

?? Green gear?

 

I am unsure if I have weared a green item outside of my implants and earpiece since late twenties.

 

Oranges. Blues. Purples.

No greens.

 

Crafting isn't worth it, period. For levelling or for selling. It simply isn't worth it.

 

When crafting, and gathering materials for said crafts aren't worth it, where are we, and why is it made better by people getting free credits by doing nothing in comparison?

[bhouse]

Along with the nerf to credits, I have done 6 missions today and 3 of them have failed so im at a 50% success rate...

 

Dont know if the success rates were changed as well or if its just bad luck on my part but ***. Before today I only failed about 1 in 6 or so.

 

So is slicing a new credit sink? What benefit do slicers receive from their profession?