Having played world of Warcraft for many many years I have to strongly disagree. Combat logs did not bring out the awful behavior of people in PUGs in that game. The only thing added to that game that did bring out undesirable behavior in more people was the cross server group finder and the anonymity it gave players. Before that came out, sure you had people who were mean and elitist but those players were that way anyways and would do the same judging without the logs and in fact this is already present in TOR. For the rest of the people they had server reputations to maintain and they weren't jerks even though they had tools such as recount. So again, I say that this fear many of you people have of people becoming judgmental should be geared towards cross realm group finders and NOT live group wide combat logs. People don't magically become mean after being given an analysis tool, but it does happen to some when they become an anonymous player you will never see again.

So after wiping for hours on the same boss and having to keep finding players to fill spots and the player you are trying to help keeps having the same problems you are doing everything you can to help, you wouldnt be frustrated? You would just keep on trucking with no hesitation?

Can anyone answer how it is considered "leetism" for removing a player from a group? Especially if said player has caused wipe after wipe wasting peoples time and credits and you have helped them out as much as you could.

I know you think that it will work this way, but the only way that will happen is if you take the time to find like-minded players (a guild for example). In reality, in a PUG if you keep wiping because of one person some players will not stick around causing you to go back to fleet and recruit more people causing the rest of the group to lose out on their play time. There are only so many reps and so much coaching you can do before people will get fed up with the continuous wipes because of one player, not to mention having to pay for repairs.

I am 100% pro public in-game logs and I would love it if people who act in socially unacceptable ways would have to face some sort of consequences.

WOW! I did not realize just seeing some numbers on the screen made you an amazing player who knows how to gear perfectly and execute the perfect rotation and know exactly when to use your specific utility skills...AMAZING!

What part of "win" dont you understand? Definition of win : A successful result in a contest, conflict, bet, or other endeavor; a victory. If threat meters make the game "a lot easier" and "trivializes threat" why was it that in World of Warcraft, threat got a 500% buff? Before this buff, why did people constantly pull aggro and make the tanks life much MUCH harder than it should be? Its one of the reasons people didnt want to tank. So I guess by your logic resource bars are "I-Win meters" because they show the amount of resources you have and trivialize the decision to use abilities that cost resources, or to let them regen. Also, health bars are "I-Win meters" because they easily let you see the level of your health, trivializing the decision of when you need to be healed and when you do not.

Please explain how any of that makes it an I-win meter.

LOL Someone who knows nothing about threat meters or combat log parsers.

Not to mention having to download a 3rd party parser that is not made by bioware which can easily contain viruses, keyloggers, spyware etc. Inc hacked accounts, be prepared customer service.

How can you find out how far ahead you are? The logs are supposedly only going to display things that you do and things that happen to you.

All those addons did was read and interpret the data from the combat log

Cool! So you didnt need them or use them even though they were included in the game. When they are put in to this game, you and everyone else who doesnt want to use them has the choice not to use them!

That is a horrible argument and is the same if I were to say "most people against logs are bad players who don't want anyone to know. They just won't admit to it"

Bottom line is jerks will be jerks with or without logs and they will find a way to judge people (looking at you gear checks). It is INCREDIBLY easy to put those players on ignore and play with like-minded people. If you did those two things, real-time combat logs will have no effect whatsoever on your gameplay experience.

People keep mentioning using the logs for epeen, however not a single argument in any of the thousands of posts said they want it to show off their epeen...

Why would it alienate them, and why would they leave? I highly doubt people will leave if they added in game group logs. So its more like keep 90% or keep 100%

There is no rule that says you have to min-max your play, and you are correct that most raids will not require it. If you come across a group that is demanding these things of you, do you really want to play with them in the first place? I believe that people who will require these things are also the people who are currently doing gear checks. With comprehensive real-time combat logs, nothing changes...these people will demand perfection because that is who they are. If they cant judge based on your damage/healing/whatever they find these other ways (your gear). Edit In fact gear checking is a lot harsher that judging based on performance because with gear checking you dont even get a chance to prove yourself.

I just looked at curse.com and out of the 5,000 addons they carry for WoW, the 4th MOST downloaded addon is recount. It has a total of 29.7 million downloads and monthly it gets about 375,000 downloads. The other combat log parser is skada and it is rank 12 out of 5,000 with 3.7 million downloads and approximately 177,000 downloads a month. It would seem that a lot of people do in fact find it useful to have the information provided by the combat log. I realize it is a completely different game but it is the same type of game with similar mechanics and I would guess that it has many of the same players.

arent sports just games? how would a combat log make the game like a job? You guys do realize that if this is implemented, you NEVER have to look at it or even concern yourselves with it?

I agree

Even the guy writing that article is in favor of combat logs/dps meters " 1. If the group is clearing the content, the DPS meter is completely irrelevant for a 5-man. DPS meters (especially ones with parsing that can tell you more than just raw numbers) are useful for raiding and can even be invaluable in determining what's going on in a boss attempt. Using them to mock and belittle strangers you just met in a 5-man is not their intended use, nor is it a good use of them. Share it with your friends -- use it to feel quietly smug about how awesome you are all you like -- but don't bring it up in party. If people want to see how amazing your DPS is, they can consult their own meters. 3. It makes the specific times when DPS matters harder to emphasize. If the group can't kill Murozond because everyone is doing lower DPS than is necessary (and that would mean really poor use of the Hourglass), then I need to be able to tell them this."

QFT 5char

COOL! Which onboard video processor is it, may I ask?

Firstly, you have to realize that only a certain demographic of people are willing to read the game forums in the first place, then another smaller demographic is interested in general discussion specifically, and an even smaller demographic is interested in this topic enough to vote or voice an opinion. All this poll shows is that this specific demographic of people seems to favor the current implementation. Its like, if there were a presidential poll on fox news, it would almost certainly lean towards republican. Sure, everybody is free to vote just as this poll is, but there is a certain demographic of people who read/watch fox news. Also, there are many people who do not even understand what a combat log is/does and they just automatically think it is bad and vote 'no' where as it is a pretty valid assumption that those who vote yes do know what it is and are voting based on what they know. Lastly, there are people who see the topic and dont even realize that the 'no' option says the self out of game log is sufficient, and they vote 'no' because they straight up do not want combat logs. You can see this by all of the people who come in here and say "no to combat logs" and the such. So the yes option has people voting who do indeed want combat logs The no oprion on the other hand has people who think the one bioware is implementing is fine, as well as those who do not know what a combat log is/does, AS WELL AS those who dont even realize that the no vote is for self-logs when they dont even want any type of log.