Given all the streamlining in 4.0, why did the devs ever think 1.0 was acceptable?

[ffsnonamesleft]

I speak as a returning player, having subscribed in last month and happily playing through class storylines and doing a bit of pvp / ganking. I havne't started on the KOTFE content yet, so I can't comment about that.

 

I am much happier about how the game is now than how I remembered it at launch. At launch, the grind to level 50 was insufferable, i remember you quick travel was 20 mins, emergency pass 24 hrs and you couldn't get a speeder until lv25 and level 3 was at 50 with big cost, no rocket boost etc. Kept being mobbed and shot off my speeder. And the amount of fetch/kill quests that had nothing to do with the story but you had to do for XP, man. I levelled a character to 50, completed the class storyline and thought never again and didn't subscribe past the month I got when I bought the game.

 

I wonder how the devs ever thought the state of 1.0 was acceptable. If all MMO were like SWTOR 1.0, no wonder they're dying.

Edited January 8, 2016 by ffsnonamesleft

[knowmyname]

Why is 4.0 acceptable?

 

News, it's not. There's more complaints about the current state of the game than there was with 1.0

 

Check your facts

[ffsnonamesleft]

Why is 4.0 acceptable?

 

News, it's not. There's more complaints about the current state of the game than there was with 1.0

 

Check your facts

 

why isn't it acceptable, seems like people are practically begging it to fail.

[MadDutchman]

paradigms change.

 

Letting people slowly move through all the content made sense to them at the time. For the first months it probably was a good idea, since all the content was new. Then people had played it through, and it became really annoying.

[trueKieran]

Then people had played it through, and it became really annoying.

 

It didn't take that long for me. I considered republic Taris to be annoying when I wasn't even halfway through. If the main quest wasn't "kill so and so many rakghouls" then the bonus quest was. Apart from the heroics, I remember one quest with droids, one with nexu and apart from that I only remember rakghouls. By the time they came up with the rakghoul event, I wanted to strangle whoever had the idea...

[Sarfux]

why isn't it acceptable, seems like people are practically begging it to fail.

 

It SEEMS that people are begging for it to fail, because that's exactly what they want deep within their mind.

[Hastorius]

As somebody that uninstalled the game 2 weeks after launch (I was level 27 and on Tatooine) and who has resubbed after TFA renewed my interest in Star Wars, I have to say that the purple quest-lines and the allowance of speedy streamlines progression is much appreciated.

 

Part of the reason for my uninstalling, aside from being very aggravated that I was not going to get a single-player KOTOR 3, was that I was hitting the grindfest required for leveling. I already did all the grinding I ever wanted to do when I played SW Galaxies back in 2002, and at least that game had such unique systems that the grinding was worth doing. I had also done enough grinding for leveling in WoW in 2005. I came into the game in 2011(?) expecting to do story stuff and not have to worry about the normal insufferable grinding of the MMO, and that shattered my interest in the game.

 

This new way allows me to treat the game like the KOTOR I never got, with the options of standard MMO experiences. So far I am very pleased and the amazon 3 month package seems quite worthwhile.

 

I'm not sure about long-long term longevity since I am no longer an avid MMO player, but I am thoroughly enjoying the Agent storyline and the planet stories and will likely play through a couple other class stories.

[Holocron]

As somebody that uninstalled the game 2 weeks after launch (I was level 27 and on Tatooine) and who has resubbed after TFA renewed my interest in Star Wars, I have to say that the purple quest-lines and the allowance of speedy streamlines progression is much appreciated.

 

Part of the reason for my uninstalling, aside from being very aggravated that I was not going to get a single-player KOTOR 3, was that I was hitting the grindfest required for leveling. I already did all the grinding I ever wanted to do when I played SW Galaxies back in 2002, and at least that game had such unique systems that the grinding was worth doing. I had also done enough grinding for leveling in WoW in 2005. I came into the game in 2011(?) expecting to do story stuff and not have to worry about the normal insufferable grinding of the MMO, and that shattered my interest in the game.

 

This new way allows me to treat the game like the KOTOR I never got, with the options of standard MMO experiences. So far I am very pleased and the amazon 3 month package seems quite worthwhile.

 

I'm not sure about long-long term longevity since I am no longer an avid MMO player, but I am thoroughly enjoying the Agent storyline and the planet stories and will likely play through a couple other class stories.

 

If for some reason you feel that you won't stick around long term, then please, please do yourself a favor, and play all the class stories to completion first. AND make sure you do the planet quest, and side mission on each planet with those classes. The stories are amazing, and some of the responses (depending on class/alignment) are pure comedy gold.

[knowmyname]

Good things come to those that wait.

 

 

Players burning through levels introduces a lot more issues than vanilla 1.0 SWTOR had.

 

There is little end game once you have your min/max 220. You don't need 224 gear unless you really want to do NiM content. There isn't much for PvP as the WZs have not changed nor anything new added. Bads are bad. Good players are leaving the game for other entertainment.

 

I stood up and explained all this before x12 XP came out for that month over a year ago. Few stood with me while the majority of the entitled shut us down. BW responded by doing the x12XP again but for an entire year.

 

Now players were used to the x12XP when 4.0 dropped. They were mad when XP dropped to x8XP. So BW responded with x2 for a few weeks. Those same players are mad that it didn't last longer.

 

These players are Bads. They suck at the game. Even with the nerf to gear stats and merging them into mastery and removing surge, players don't know how to properly gear their characters. They don't know their abilities, don't know their class, don't know their role in group play, be that heroics, Flashpoints, and operations. Let alone PvP.

 

This makes it very frustrating for group play. It's so much trouble just to get a group going and completing a tactical, I might as well just SOLO tacticals. Which I do so I can finish my daily and weekly in a night. Hard Mode Flashpoints via group finder is a circus. Due to the companions not wearing gear, they actually got a huge nerfbat. Though those Bads say companions are OVER POWERED. They don't do hard content and don't understand the meaning of OP and NERF. Geared companions I could solo HMFP. can't do it now since they don't do enoug DPS,Healing, and can not take a hit. Tank companions Absorb, Defense, Shield, tech/Force power ratings are the same as healer and DPS companions. They melt during high burst DPS phases.

 

Since players burn through levels so fast they don't understand tanking, cool downs, DPS doesn't wait for tank to pull, healers don't understand what cleanse does, they don't get burst healing and when to expect high burst DPS let alon what boss mechanics are.

 

Lowbie leveling process is so fast crew skills are pointless until end game. Even then you can run Flashpoints and operations for gear. There is no time spent teaching players their abilities. They don't spend time with new abilities to learn when the best time to use them. Players don't know what a rotation means. They suck. A bunch of Bads wondering why no one wants to group with them. Why players exit Queues early in a mission or after a wipe or a couple group pulls.

 

Veteran players are tired of it. Most have snuck back into their guilds and only group with their guild. Because SWTOR experience matters. I am more patient and will pass on my experience but most don't.

 

I have made multiple threads offering to help new players, announcements on fleet on my server offering to assist new players and teach others how to tank and heal properly. DPS is easy. Just shoot and watch your AOE and CC'd Mobs. There's few tanks and those that are competent don't queue for tacticals and hard mode Flashpoints. the healers don't do enough HPS and won't cleanse. They stand in stupid and wonder why everyone dies so quickly. But I don't see anyone else willing to put up with Bads and teach them. And I'm not changing servers just to help out. If they want to improve their gaming experience in SWTOR, they will have to be on Shadowlands.

 

Am I the best and do I sell this awesomesauce I drink? NOPE. But I do know the fights and what I can and can't do in HMFP. I used to SOLO them so much I had them on farm. Looking at my recent Tactical Solo streams, you'll see where I made mistakes, but I adjusted and cleared it with ease. It was only a couple times out of the 5 hour session doing 8 tacticals and 1 HMFP. I even logged onto my level 17 and showed that even lowbies can solo tacticals.

 

So no, 1.0 was good, 2.0 was good until patch 2.6 when abilities were merged, totally removed from the game and turned from active to passive. This totally changed some classes, they felt clunky and that was the beginning of SWTRO's NGE. 3.0 saw more of the same, the game changed direction and went down a patch many wouldn't follow.

 

Now with KOTFE & 4.0 things changed even more. It's a story driven single player big XP game. Players are blasting through levels faster than crew skills can keep up. There is no down time between planets and levels to honing abilities and skill. Players do not spend enough time learning when is the right time to pop that defensive cool down. When to heal the companion or worry about dying due to lowbie companion heals/DPS. At least with the original system the player had time to fine tune their build and hone their skills while grinding out levels. To be honest it took us 9 hours to go from level 10 to level 50 during beta through 3.0. 9 hours. There are a few videos and blogs that fact check this.

 

4.0 is for the simple minded casual player. There is absolutely need need to group or do grouped content to level. So players miss out on a perfect opportunity to learn how to work together. Players don't take the time to learn their role and abilities in group content. They blast through dumped down tactical Flashpoints where the trinity isn't required.

 

They hit endgame with ignorance towards Boss mechanics. Struggle in Hard Mode Flashpoints and suffocate in Operations. They get their poop pushed in during War Zones. I roll my operative healers in war zones and just sap cap stealing nodes from noobs, then I'll hold Hypergate the full 2 mins using stealth, sleepdart, flash bang, seismic grenades, cleanse,cc break, and heals. They don't know their abilities and complain about CC, heals, why I break CC preventing a recap. They complain PvP is broken when in actuality they need to Learn to Play.

 

BW caused the current situation. Only BW is to blame for this. Players will always take the shortest route. Be that leveling, crew skills, experience and such. They won't spend time learning their skills when BW will just dumb down the game for these simple minded casual player base.

 

I am willing to pass on information, tweaks, optimizations for gear and rotations and give input on mechanics. But it's up to the players to listen and apply it. Instead most stand back and watch my healer tank bosses and work through mechanics. They won't learn how to play and the only fault lies on themselves. Oh and BW for creating this state with the x12 XP boosts, dumbed down gameplay and extremely fast playstyle. New players miss out on the core of the game bypassing it all.

Edited January 8, 2016 by knowmyname

[Storm-Cutter]

Coz the game started as sub only.

- a long leveling process means people stayed subbed for longer.

You could level a character form 1-50 in about 50 hours at a steady pace - exploring, getting datacrons, doing side-quests, not-spacebarring through convos.

Do this 3 or four times for the story - at a couple of hours a day - and it's months of sub time. so more $$$

 

Nowadays, people are either just starting, and want to get to endgame, and won't invest the time to level a dozen characters, or they are veterans, who don't want to see the same old sidequest for the sixth time or w/e.

 

Players want to see the story and the scenery - but don't want to wade through 1000s of trash mobs any more. They were there originally to give Xp and slow your progress, but now they're just annoying.

 

TLDR: Times change, people change, games change. Why do people drive cars when horses were so good?

[LordArtemis]

Why is 4.0 acceptable?

 

News, it's not. There's more complaints about the current state of the game than there was with 1.0

 

Check your facts

 

The forum stands in evidence to the contrary.

 

STARK evidence. There was quite a bit more hand wringing back on those days than there is now. Whether it was because there were more people playing, people were more vocal back then or most of those that were vocal left....it was bedlam, plain and simple.

 

This is nothing compared to the complaining and arguing shortly after launch into 2.0.

 

One of the requirements of telling someone else to check their facts is that your facts should be, well, actual facts.

[DarthOvertone]

1.0 was pretty bad. Things are certainly better now.

 

However, 4.0 is still bad...just in its own way.

[Hombold]

Well you obviously haven't played the latest chapter. I didn't really encounter many problems with the mission content until I started the KotFE chapter.

 

However if you can't see the same blatant technical and game play problems this game had at release you must be blind. PVP hasn't really changed. Grouping is terrible, Flashpoints are even worse especially the tactical ones.

 

Questing and story are the only things TOR does really well. And once that's done what else is there to do?

Edited January 8, 2016 by Hombold

[Taniska]

SWTOR is still a MMO after all. IMO, you can have the best game in the world, if you don't have anyone worth to play with, you'll be bored pretty soon. And you can have the sadest, poorest, and worst game ever, if you have some good buddies, you will still enjoy it.

I personally don't think the game is worse or better than before. He just encourage people to play alone, and that makes it more difficult to find good mates.

I don't mind if it's faster and easier to level up, but they should re-introduce H4 quests and remove solo Flashpoints. Well, that's how I feel it.

[Vhaegrant]

I speak as a returning player, having subscribed in last month and happily playing through class storylines and doing a bit of pvp / ganking. I havne't started on the KOTFE content yet, so I can't comment about that.

 

I am much happier about how the game is now than how I remembered it at launch. At launch, the grind to level 50 was insufferable, i remember you quick travel was 20 mins, emergency pass 24 hrs and you couldn't get a speeder until lv25 and level 3 was at 50 with big cost, no rocket boost etc. Kept being mobbed and shot off my speeder. And the amount of fetch/kill quests that had nothing to do with the story but you had to do for XP, man. I levelled a character to 50, completed the class storyline and thought never again and didn't subscribe past the month I got when I bought the game.

 

I wonder how the devs ever thought the state of 1.0 was acceptable. If all MMO were like SWTOR 1.0, no wonder they're dying.

 

SWTOR at launch was no different than many of the other MMO designs out in play at that time.

You have to remember that development on SWTOR started at least 5 years or so before launch.

Go back to that time frame and nearly all MMOs had a hefty time sink requirement and almost punitive system of travel. Some explain it away as modelling real world travel, I call it a time sink to artificially extend play time and time spent subscribed.

Looking at the calls from the dedicated MMO player this was probably what they were looking for and enjoyed.

However, I have to wonder what the Venn diagram for MMO player/ Game player/ Star Wars fan looks like

 

I suspect that the larger part of this audience falls in the casual side or those gamers with considerations on time.

 

Game design has moved on quite a bit as have gamers expectations. Most of all is the freemium/ microtransaction model. This model doesn't worry so much about the amount of time you play but rather providing aspects of the game you want to pay for.

 

The expected lifespan of an MMO means it has to adapt to these changing playstyles and it is far more obvious than the stand alone single player games.

[gabigool]

Now players were used to the x12XP when 4.0 dropped. They were mad when XP dropped to x8XP. So BW responded with x2 for a few weeks. Those same players are mad that it didn't last longer.

 

These players are Bads. They suck at the game. Even with the nerf to gear stats and merging them into mastery and removing surge, players don't know how to properly gear their characters. They don't know their abilities, don't know their class, don't know their role in group play, be that heroics, Flashpoints, and operations. Let alone PvP.

 

This makes it very frustrating for group play. It's so much trouble just to get a group going and completing a tactical, I might as well just SOLO tacticals. Which I do so I can finish my daily and weekly in a night. Hard Mode Flashpoints via group finder is a circus. Due to the companions not wearing gear, they actually got a huge nerfbat. Though those Bads say companions are OVER POWERED. They don't do hard content and don't understand the meaning of OP and NERF. Geared companions I could solo HMFP. can't do it now since they don't do enoug DPS,Healing, and can not take a hit. Tank companions Absorb, Defense, Shield, tech/Force power ratings are the same as healer and DPS companions. They melt during high burst DPS phases.

 

Since players burn through levels so fast they don't understand tanking, cool downs, DPS doesn't wait for tank to pull, healers don't understand what cleanse does, they don't get burst healing and when to expect high burst DPS let alon what boss mechanics are.

 

Lowbie leveling process is so fast crew skills are pointless until end game. Even then you can run Flashpoints and operations for gear. There is no time spent teaching players their abilities. They don't spend time with new abilities to learn when the best time to use them. Players don't know what a rotation means. They suck. A bunch of Bads wondering why no one wants to group with them. Why players exit Queues early in a mission or after a wipe or a couple group pulls.

 

Veteran players are tired of it. Most have snuck back into their guilds and only group with their guild. Because SWTOR experience matters. I am more patient and will pass on my experience but most don't.

 

This is just reality now. The new playerbase is so much worse than it ever was. Basic fundamental grouping ideas are not introduced/reinforced during the leveling process - with rare exceptions - but the streamlined pace of leveling has removed the incentive to do things like actual FP's and heroic 4's where people used to learn. In short, mechanics are not a concept you need to understand to get to level 65 and have 220 gear.

 

And if they didn't learn along the way, they learned at 50 doing things like D7 or FE. Coms were not just thrown around - remember doing the KoS/LI weekly for 7 coms? People had to learn and run the FP's for gear.

 

Key fact: Its not a grind if it's making you a better player.

 

Why do people want to suck? I have no clue. I was in a TFB pug the other night, this sniper was just standing in the middle of the beach getting wrecked. Called him out by name, asked him to move to the tentacle. Put an icon where he was supposed to stand. Whispered him while I was tanking the tentacle. He just stayed there spamming snipe until he died. He didn't say anything before the pull. No one killed the adds. I typed "kill the adds" over and over. This is on like out 4th pull. And you can't stop people from shooting the Birth adds. You just can't.

 

I do explain mechanics in pugs. I do ask if people know the fights. The problem is no one listens because the concept of something actually being able to kill you is alien. You literally have to wipe 3/4 times for people to actually start to believe there is something worth learning. By then the few people who actually know the fights have left. PuG-ing in this game is harder than it ever was, yet the content is easier.

 

For a QoL standpoint the game has some much-appreciated shortcuts now. If I wanted to level up a new character again and it was still 1.0 style planets, I'd want to claw my eyes out. But too much has been streamlined to the point where any semblance of learning to play has become optional. And that's a bad, bad thing for the longevity of an MMO.

 

This is not KotOR 3. It was never meant to be. Players may very well want it to be but it's not. The devs need to stop catering to the people that want it to be.

[Ghisallo]

why isn't it acceptable, seems like people are practically begging it to fail.

 

Well, why would people beg for it to fail if they found it acceptable. The argument you make here is pretty much text book avoidance.

 

That said here is the issue. Even at 1.0 leveling was among the easiest in the MMO world. So if you were an MMORPG player it was easy, if you came here looking for TOR 3 you probably would not have been a fan BUT the game wasn't TOR 3.

 

Also according to BW themselves the failure at launch was actually the opposite of what you infer. They said they failed because people got through the game too fast.

 

Why is this an issue? This game was launched as a subscription game and even though it did a f2p transition it now has the strongest subscription bias since the transition (can't play the expac unless you are a sub.) To keep subscriptions going players need things to play because "no play" means "no pay".

 

With this expac I might even argue it isn't that streamlined. Yes you get to 65 fast, BUT at the end the game comes to a virtual s halt in terms of both subjective feel and objectively.

 

Subjective. MMORPGs that are not simply b2p need to keep people playing to keep them paying, either via subscription of via cash shop and that means a grind. Now the trick is to mask the grind but making whatever is being done fun and also provide a sense of fulfillment. Now having been gone a while you may not appreciate that the Heroic Missions and group content is all recycled. Part of the fun equation is freshness, that it feels new. For you much of this may well feel new, not so much for others.

 

Objective. The one new thing, the story, is paused until next month. After a day's play at most you will be done it and it will be paused again.

 

What is the incentive to keep paying, even if there is nothing for you to play? Fluff rewards? There is a problem.

 

Again it may not be a problem for returning or new players because these players may not feel this expac is a painful grind because the stuff you actually play feels "new." For a great many existing players the use of level sync and bolstering to make the actual playable content is a major grind and thus a problem.

-------

 

Now the above may beg the question "why make it so fast to get to end game? Why focus on the story and ignore new playable content?". Because this expac is primarily focused on getting new and returning players while minimizing existing player loss, all on a restricted budget.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Ghisallo

[Neculai]

Well you obviously haven't played the latest chapter. I didn't really encounter many problems with the mission content until I started the KotFE chapter.

 

However if you can't see the same blatant technical and game play problems this game had at release you must be blind. PVP hasn't really changed. Grouping is terrible, Flashpoints are even worse especially the tactical ones.

 

Questing and story are the only things TOR does really well. And once that's done what else is there to do?

 

Why even play if it is so terrible? Serious question.

[Ghisallo]

Why even play if it is so terrible? Serious question.

 

Hmmm let me think...

1. A great many MMORPG players play not just for the game but their guild/friends. As such even if a game has "issues" you may still play as more of a social function than game play function.

2. You may really like the IP and if it's the only game in town its all you have to play.

3. You may have a canceled multi-month subscription and be the type of person who doesn't want to feel like they wasted the money if they have time left.

4. You may think a company that has repeatedly said the read the forums and Reddits to see what players want will read what you write, see you are still playing, will do what they claim, see what people want and change things.

[Erasimus]

The forum stands in evidence to the contrary.

 

STARK evidence. There was quite a bit more hand wringing back on those days than there is now. Whether it was because there were more people playing, people were more vocal back then or most of those that were vocal left....it was bedlam, plain and simple.

 

This is nothing compared to the complaining and arguing shortly after launch into 2.0.

 

One of the requirements of telling someone else to check their facts is that your facts should be, well, actual facts.

 

I believe there are two major flaws in your logic.

 

The first, is as you noted, there were a lot more subscribers that could post to the forums back then. How many more I can't say but weren't there over 1 million subs at one point and now, well I'd be very surprised if there were more

than a few hundred thousand, or less. So there were more positive as well as more negative posts.

 

The second is those that remained after F2P are people that were at least somewhat happy, or hardcore Star Wars fans. A significant number of those who remained are now complaining which should be worrisome to those that would like to see the game be successful. The percentage of the subscriber base complaining may or may not be higher but you have no more "facts" to base your opinion on than the OP.

 

In contrast to the OP, I'm a returning player, played from release for over two years as a sub then let my sub lapse. I find that the changes, especially the excessive cutscenes, make it feel more like a mildly interactive movie with a few bits of gameplay interjected. Not the type of game I'm interested in playing so I haven't logged on in weeks and will be letting my sub lapse.

 

I don't know if the changes will help or hinder the game from succeeding. For those that enjoy this type of gameplay, I hope it does succeed. However, I think the jury is still out and it will be some time before anyone knows for sure how these changes will impact the future of the game.

[Neoforcer]

Why is 4.0 acceptable?

 

News, it's not. There's more complaints about the current state of the game than there was with 1.0

 

Check your facts

 

The complaints are only from the cry qqer that complaints no mater what the devs do every one else is having a blast in game if there were so many un happy players fleet would be full of QQ post not just norm al chat talk about chuck noris....

 

That and most of the 1.0 devs are gone they really did drop the ball at launch which almost killed this game from the start...

Edited January 8, 2016 by Neoforcer

[Ghisallo]

The forum stands in evidence to the contrary.

 

STARK evidence. There was quite a bit more hand wringing back on those days than there is now. Whether it was because there were more people playing, people were more vocal back then or most of those that were vocal left....it was bedlam, plain and simple.

 

This is nothing compared to the complaining and arguing shortly after launch into 2.0.

 

One of the requirements of telling someone else to check their facts is that your facts should be, well, actual facts.

 

First I think you make an error in not looking at in a per capita sense. This game had what 5 million subscribers shortly after launch. They then said, with 2.0, the stabilized at just under 500k subs. There are fewer subs today and since only subs can post on forums you will naturally see fewer posts on any topic.

 

Second, back then the game was simply first, more broken, and second we had a lot more different types of players. Many of the people who bought into their PvP focused advertising, especially those who wanted massive open world PvP, are now gone. Add in a lot of the people who had expected TOR 3, SWG 2 etc. Lastly you have people who left simply because they are not tolerant of bugs.

 

So in the end the people you have today are ones who, largely, have come to accept many of the problems and issues as "the new normal". This does not mean the issues do not exist nor that these people don't care about the issues but if an issue exists for 4 years the same person does one of two things, accepts them as that "new normal" or moves on. In either case the complaints stop.

 

That all said lets look at the trends since around July. In July when they made it 100% clear this expac was "all about the story" there were a lot of complaints, people said they were going to leave and by September more than few guilds left enmasse. They obviously don't post anymore.

 

Then over the last month we have had more than a few complaint threads and, again, many frequent posters have said "I'm done" and stopped posting. Some of us are still posting but in many cases I see the same reason I saw people against the companion Nerf use "I canceled BUT I will keep posting until my sub runs out." However I think any reasonably observant person can see the drop off of a lot of formerly regular posters who made their displeasure quite clear. I suspect by Feb or March if you look at these forums it will appear mostly honky dory with the possible exception of people complaining about time between chapters and debating if the subscription rewards are valid for money... because that will be the new "new normal."

[ImmortalLowlife]

...these simple minded casual player base...

 

Ya know I'll be SO GLAD when they release a new SP SW RPG. It's arrogant loud mouthed MFs like you are the reason I don't do group content.

 

Know what I remember about 1.0? Me quitting after a week after launch because ******es like YOU always talking down to casuals. THIS is my first (and only) MMO...I remember asking questions about how things worked and the rude trolling responses I got. I remember not caring that I'd spent & probably wasted $70 for a game who's player base seemed to be majority elitist ******es.

 

But you know what....a month later I subbed again....and I've subbed EVERY MONTH SINCE. I'll be subbed EVERY month for the foreseeable future. How bout YOU? And if your answer is anything other than "yes" who do you think BW is gonna cater to?

 

 

Well guess what sunshine...chances are it's US simple minded casuals that are keeping this game alive right now. What you gonna do when we finally get a true SP RPG and the filthy casuals go play that instead of spending money here? How long you think swtor will last without US?

[Ghisallo]

Ya know I'll be SO GLAD when they release a new SP SW RPG. It's arrogant loud mouthed MFs like you are the reason I don't do group content.

 

Know what I remember about 1.0? Me quitting after a week after launch because ******es like YOU always talking down to casuals. THIS is my first (and only) MMO...I remember asking questions about how things worked and the rude trolling responses I got. I remember not caring that I'd spent & probably wasted $70 for a game who's player base seemed to be majority elitist ******es.

 

But you know what....a month later I subbed again....and I've subbed EVERY MONTH SINCE. I'll be subbed EVERY month for the foreseeable future. How bout YOU? And if your answer is anything other than "yes" who do you think BW is gonna cater to?

 

 

Well guess what sunshine...chances are it's US simple minded casuals that are keeping this game alive right now. What you gonna do when we finally get a true SP RPG and the filthy casuals go play that instead of spending money here? How long you think swtor will last without US?

 

Just a few things...the term casual is largely meaningless, because there are dedicated solo and/or story fans out there as fanatical about their corner of the game as the most stereotypical of hardcore raiding elitists. Many of these players are mad because of the lack of new playable content, the single story and really when you look at it how short it is...imagine if this new story was given all at once, how quickly people would path through it.

 

That said no group in this game is a majority. Yes without that SP/Story fans there would be less people here and less money. It would hurt. However there are a lot of people who play MMORPGs for the fact that it has group content. If this didn't exist why would we be seeing weird hybrids like DA:I and AC:U where there are now lobbies for small group content? If these people leave the game is at least as equally hurt and if they leave, as they are "casual" in that regard then most certainly the hardcore leave with them. Multiple minorities can combine to = a majority.

[Nothing_Shines]

Ya know I'll be SO GLAD when they release a new SP SW RPG. It's arrogant loud mouthed MFs like you are the reason I don't do group content.

 

Know what I remember about 1.0? Me quitting after a week after launch because ******es like YOU always talking down to casuals. THIS is my first (and only) MMO...I remember asking questions about how things worked and the rude trolling responses I got. I remember not caring that I'd spent & probably wasted $70 for a game who's player base seemed to be majority elitist ******es.

 

But you know what....a month later I subbed again....and I've subbed EVERY MONTH SINCE. I'll be subbed EVERY month for the foreseeable future. How bout YOU? And if your answer is anything other than "yes" who do you think BW is gonna cater to?

 

Well guess what sunshine...chances are it's US simple minded casuals that are keeping this game alive right now. What you gonna do when we finally get a true SP RPG and the filthy casuals go play that instead of spending money here? How long you think swtor will last without US?

 

You sound like an abused housewife when confronted about your horrible life by an outside observer. You'll sub no matter what forever, because you couldn't stand not being a direct supporter of the game for more than a month (life without him scares you). Anyone who points out problems with the game (your abusive husband) is obviously evil and out to ruin your perfect relationship. Nothing you are doing is wrong, and you don't need to learn anything about anything, it's everyone else who doesn't understand the special relationship you have with the game.

 

I've been subbed since March 14, 2012. Does that mean BW can cater to me and just me alone? No? Didn't think so. Then again, I'm not hyperventilating on a game forum like an abuse victim in deep denial.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Nothing_Shines