KOTFE just not worth the grind

[ekwalizer]

Perhaps but Bioware would have to be nuts not to react to the way players are playing the game. If you spend 20 hours a week in the game levelling 22 alts and 5 hours a week ruining Operations what message are you sending to the developers team .... they're tell the team we are enjoying the story so lets make more of that.

 

But it is irrational to make that kind of metrics-based decision on the heels of a 6-month 12 XP class story boost. Of course more people were leveling than doing anything else. Speaking of metrics, I wonder what metrics they used to decide that people really wanted to grind H2s.

 

And if I don't want to do Operations I should still be able to get the best gear in the game. That's been the cry of casual or more solo orientated players for years in MMO's and they've been told to blow it out there poodoo .... the main tenant of this game has been the story. Is a 8 hour run through a story all that a big a deal

 

That's not the way it works. Life's not fair, get a helmet. That argument is akin to this argument: I want to be the CEO of Bioware. I'm completely unqualified but I want it so they should just give it to me.

 

An 8 hour run? Once, no. Thirty times ... different story.

 

Lets just call it elder game and from a set of fresh eyes returning to the game to me it has a ton of elder game. It's not all in the form of Operations but their is and elder game for everyone and not just for the top percentage of players in raiding guild. Anything you can continue beyond the conclusion of the levelling game I would consider elder game. Elder game is just the net you put in place to catch players in between content patches. The alliances system, unlocking companions, Planet factions, Weeklys, Daylies, HM-2's, Ops, flashpoints it's all eldergame with paths to the top 3 tiers of gear progression.

 

Your conclusion of what Elder Game is, doesn't meet the long held industry standard. MMO "elder game" is Raiding, PvP and high end crafting. Everything else is a side game (GSF, Conquest, Alliance system, etc).

 

Having the vanilla game offer 8 very intriguing class story has totally had an impact on how players play this game. They made a game that was fun to level in (for the most part) and made it even better now with the more streamlined leveling pace that works with the story driven nature of this game. Now that you can hide and ignore the “go kill ten rats” crap the leveling experience is a lot more fun.

 

My issue isn't with the new leveling system.

 

For same reason your complaining about the story requirements, because its a single non individual class experience people are inclined to level their one or two mains and then move on to a more traditional elder game experience.

 

And you have clearly missed my point that Elder Game has been ignored for more than a year. That is my chief complaint.

 

What they have to do is entice more people back to the game. I'm prof that on some level this expansion worked at that. To the veteran player it may seem less appealing but I think for the overall health of the game what they added and revamped in this expansion was necessary to entice new and old players back into the game.

 

Focus on story CLEARLY did not do that, as they are now running a subscriber gimmick; due to hemorrhaging subscriptions. Once again, if a product is in demand, no gimmick is required to move it. Word of mouth goes further than anything else in the gaming community and it only took about a day for the word to get out that this "xpac" was far more hype than delivery.

 

Despite all that from a New or Returning player experience there have been vast improvements to the game that fall in the shadow of the above mentioned miss steps ..... all I'm sayn!

 

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that point. There have been several major QoL improvements since December 2011. But the only real improvements this version are the all-purpose companions, companion quick travel and varied amount of available companions.

[ekwalizer]

What annoys me with the marketing about 'story'. is that Kotfe is really just the Jedi Knight's personal story. Every other class just got sucked into pretending to be the JK for this expansion.

 

It would've been AWESOME if all 8 classes had their own Kotfe storyline, like the original game. (smugglers shouldn't be doing the same thing as a jedi knight. )

 

Then they could've said it was all about story.

 

Now its all just about 1 story. Theirs. Not our classes.

 

Unless you're a Jedi Knight.

 

My thoughts exactly.

[Velgar]

Grinding H2s to build my 4 alliance things up to 20 on one toon and I was done. Doing it on my 7 other toons, one of each class, was just too tediously boring to contemplate. Back to barely logging in and playing other games for my entertainment.

[Alanbra]

But it is irrational to make that kind of metrics-based decision on the heels of a 6-month 12 XP class story boost. Of course more people were leveling than doing anything else. Speaking of metrics, I wonder what metrics they used to decide that people really wanted to grind H2s.

 

 

 

 

I think it was conquest that gave them the heroics idea. I know I often ran Nar Shadda/Belsavis/Balmorra heroics to help my guild out sometimes depending on the week. They saw people running through planetary heroics for conquest points, and their metrics proved to them that people loved doing them.

[TUXs]

My guess is with chapter 10 we will see a number of new OP's and perhaps a total revamp of PvP adding a 3rd alliance faction.....just a guess but if it come true ...you heard it here first.

Um...we already know that won't be the case. We won't see the new WZ until fall at the earliest and I doubt we see a new Op in 2016...I kinda doubt we see one ever again, but that's only because all signs point to it being a thing of the past.

[TUXs]

What annoys me with the marketing about 'story'. is that Kotfe is really just the Jedi Knight's personal story. Every other class just got sucked into pretending to be the JK for this expansion.

Very good observation.

[VegasTheLost]

I think it was conquest that gave them the heroics idea. I know I often ran Nar Shadda/Belsavis/Balmorra heroics to help my guild out sometimes depending on the week. They saw people running through planetary heroics for conquest points, and their metrics proved to them that people loved doing them.

 

Uhm no. It's because of the alliance grind. With level sync there is the illusion that you doing relevant content regarding the old heroics.

[Sixftunder]

I think the story was really good (personally). After I did it the second time and saw that my dark side operative and my light side smuggler had the same quest line I immediately was bored. The main problem is no one want's to do the same story line 15 times to get all their characters through. We already had to do it with Revan. It gets old when no matter what decision you make the story still has the exact same result. I would like to see the story be optional for the rest of you characters after you completed it 100%. Have a pop up that says would you like to story and continue to Odessen or continue. Just start at Odessen and all the decisions that you missed would be made for you based on your alignment. We already have 60 tokens so we can skip 60 levels of story this should not be a big deal. The story line should have been different for each class or at least each side. his doesn't even begin to cover the massive amount of bugs and problems. I am still waiting for a ticket to be answered from 11/20 and I am starting to wonder what I am paying for.

 

On a side note, instead of using the same tired vehicles with a different skin something now would have been a nice change. I would think that since the Zakuul were not originally in contact with the Imp's and Pub's that they would have different technology and different looking vehicles.

 

BTW, the star fortress explosion looks absolutely horrible. Every piece of debris is the exact same shape and size, so lazy of you.

[GalacticKegger]

Um...we already know that won't be the case. We won't see the new WZ until fall at the earliest and I doubt we see a new Op in 2016...I kinda doubt we see one ever again, but that's only because all signs point to it being a thing of the past.

With Creative Director Jesse Sky (having completed his task of building the KotFE story machine) and Raid Designer George Smith leaving this month, the game is now set in its ways. Long time players who riled against where 4.0 took our beloved SWTOR will just have to find something else to play.

 

Nailed it → http://www.xamxamsays.com/swtor-bioware-going-back-to-its-roots-a-disturbing-prospect/

Edited December 15, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[LogunOne]

An 8 hour run? Once, no. Thirty times ... different story.

 

Are you telling me you have 30 alts at level 60 in a position to start the KOTFE content... LOL

Edited December 15, 2015 by LogunOne

[LogunOne]

Your conclusion of what Elder Game is, doesn't meet the long held industry standard. MMO "elder game" is Raiding, PvP and high end crafting. Everything else is a side game (GSF, Conquest, Alliance system, etc).

 

Elder game is just a retention mechanic that usually but not always gives the player a sense of progression beyond the leveling or story mechanics of the game. In short a reason to keep playing between expansions.

[ekwalizer]

Are you telling me you have 30 alts at level 60 in a position to start the KOTFE content... LOL

 

32 at last count.

[LogunOne]

Well what you guys are describing as a grind I see as elder game content, only now you have a choice of what, how and with who you chose to experience elder game content with.

 

Your Goals are not unlike other MMO’s, it’s to gain power and influence over the game world once the leveling progression ends between expansions. In other words Progression that’s not leveling.

 

There are several things you can do in the elder game, you can run Operations as part of a guild, you can PvP, you can run Star Fortress, you can run flash points solo or in a group, or you can solo Heroic 2+ zones. You have a choice… your elder game can now be done solo, in a small group of friends, or you can do the larger group Operation content.

 

On top of this you have both weekly Guild and Personal conquest goals to attempt for rewards and crafting matts needed to build some of the best gear in the game.

 

Your other elder game goals include …

Improving your gear from 208, 216, 220, and up to 224

100% you’re 4 Outposts to get your best conquest bonus points each week.

Collect all companions

Max out your influence with your companions (Vital to solo players)

Max your Influence with your Alliance - Level 20 (Likely vital for future story components)

Collect Lock boxes from Heroic’s for Gear, Crystals, and Companion Gifts

Run Star Fortresses for all of the above and decorations trophies for your outposts

Meet your weekly conquest goals for the high end crafting components

Help your guild with building out you capital ship

Run planetary dailies for rep and unlock crafting schematics and appearance gear

Run hard mode operations for the BIS gear in the game

14 Solo Mode Flashpoints

14 Tactical Flashpoints

24 Hard Mode Flashpoints

10 Operations

14 Open World Bosses

50 or More Heroic+2 zones …more then I could ever do in day

 

You can call all of the above a grind if you like or you can call it elder game …. All I know is as a returning player to SWTOR it’s giving me a lot of sleepless nights and Star Wars OCD.

[Sarfux]

BioWare. I work on the heroengine at home in my free time. Just messing around creating worlds and doing a little work on my own game. I will create class stories for you! I am a good voice actor and I can do many other voices. If you bring me in to work for you, I will create something special and low low cost. I am great with world building and creating! Just hire me to work on class stories so the people can be happy

 

The main thing I do in game now is work on getting quality over quantity for my guilds, helping people, doing my weeklies, going to the other planets whenever I want (which is awesome btw I still can't get over that!) and messing around in the galaxy. It's great!

[Sarfux]

Well what you guys are describing as a grind I see as elder game content, only now you have a choice of what, how and with who you chose to experience elder game content with.

 

Your Goals are not unlike other MMO’s, it’s to gain power and influence over the game world once the leveling progression ends between expansions. In other words Progression that’s not leveling.

 

There are several things you can do in the elder game, you can run Operations as part of a guild, you can PvP, you can run Star Fortress, you can run flash points solo or in a group, or you can solo Heroic 2+ zones. You have a choice… your elder game can now be done solo, in a small group of friends, or you can do the larger group Operation content.

 

On top of this you have both weekly Guild and Personal conquest goals to attempt for rewards and crafting matts needed to build some of the best gear in the game.

 

Your other elder game goals include …

Improving your gear from 208, 216, 220, and up to 224

100% you’re 4 Outposts to get your best conquest bonus points each week.

Collect all companions

Max out your influence with your companions (Vital to solo players)

Max your Influence with your Alliance - Level 20 (Likely vital for future story components)

Collect Lock boxes from Heroic’s for Gear, Crystals, and Companion Gifts

Run Star Fortresses for all of the above and decorations trophies for your outposts

Meet your weekly conquest goals for the high end crafting components

Help your guild with building out you capital ship

Run planetary dailies for rep and unlock crafting schematics and appearance gear

Run hard mode operations for the BIS gear in the game

14 Solo Mode Flashpoints

14 Tactical Flashpoints

24 Hard Mode Flashpoints

10 Operations

14 Open World Bosses

50 or More Heroic+2 zones …more then I could ever do in day

 

You can call all of the above a grind if you like or you can call it elder game …. All I know is as a returning player to SWTOR it’s giving me a lot of sleepless nights and Star Wars OCD.

 

Well said! Also, there are some people that have a negative view of things so they will see everything as "grind". Well of course everything is going to be a grind if you view it that way.

[ekwalizer]

 

Your other elder game goals include …

Improving your gear from 208, 216, 220, and up to 224 This is elder via Raiding or PvP.

100% you’re 4 Outposts to get your best conquest bonus points each week. Side Game

Collect all companions Side Game

Max out your influence with your companions (Vital to solo players) Side Game

Max your Influence with your Alliance - Level 20 (Likely vital for future story components) Side Game

Collect Lock boxes from Heroic’s for Gear, Crystals, and Companion Gifts Side Game

Run Star Fortresses for all of the above and decorations trophies for your outposts Side Game

Meet your weekly conquest goals for the high end crafting components Side Game primarily Elder Game if you are doing it specifically for crafting

Help your guild with building out you capital ship Side Game

Run planetary dailies for rep and unlock crafting schematics and appearance gear Side Game

Run hard mode operations for the BIS gear in the game This is the same as your first example, just worded differently.

14 Solo Mode Flashpoints Side Game - that most of us have done a million times anyway before they were SOLO

14 Tactical Flashpoints Side Game - same as above, they just weren't "tactical"

24 Hard Mode Flashpoints One could make the argument that this is Elder Game content.

10 Operations Again this plays right into your first example.

14 Open World Bosses Elder game

50 or More Heroic+2 zones …more then I could ever do in day They are meant to be done over the span of a week; but yes, they most certainly can be done in a day. Also, this is a Side Game.

 

You can call all of the above a grind if you like or you can call it elder game …. All I know is as a returning player to SWTOR it’s giving me a lot of sleepless nights and Star Wars OCD.

 

Again, you are confusing "Elder Game" with "Side Game". Changing a long standing definition to suit your own rational doesn't make it so.

 

I never once made the argument that there wasn't plenty to do in this game; especially for a returning player or a off-the-streeter. My point is, long standing members of this community are being alienated by lack of ****NEW**** Elder Game Content.

 

Elder Game has exactly THREE components:

Progression Raiding

Progression PvP

Progression Crafting

 

Elder Games can only be engaged in at max level; it is what you do in order to feel a sense of progression at level cap.

 

Side Games can be played virtually at any point in the game and are meant to be a distraction from the leveling mechanics.

[TyonYlle]

Honestly, threads like these will go on forever, both sides have points, and quite frankly it's not worth getting heated about.

 

From the perspective of a casual gamer who has been here from literally day one, or one who is more inclined to the story. I have never played an ops in my life, I rarely ever pvp, except once in a blue moon. It's why my first mmo was SWG, (well Tibia actually). It's also why I never touched WoW because I was too scared. This might be a better argument, if the pvp people didn't berate the newbies each chance they have. PvPers would have to be the worst players for that reason, they want new wzs, yet they are unwilling to teach newbies. You don't want to know the amount of times I've seen someone kicked, because they weren't able to pvp with the best. Where's the logic in that.

 

People are complaining now, that there are no new ops, just like when there will, eventually be a new op, or wz I'm sure the story people will complain.

 

I know; I personally couldn't care less for a op, because chances are I will never play it. Before SoR I've had to sit, patiently, (note the key word everyone needs to know) watching them release new ops and wzs.

 

The problem is people (myself included) want the next new thing NOW. Now with lvl sync, we are able to do old heroics, and FPs and Ops, and they will present a challenge. Heroics, even give better rewards now. It's not like as if there is nothing to do. Can you tell me that you can blow through a op like EV?

 

Oh, and for all those that you didn't receive any choice during Kotfe. You did receive choices, only that they didn't matter during THESE chapters. Need I remind everyone these 16 chapters is only season 1? I to have finished the chapters, and I seem to remember, seeing that for most of them, in had something like, Koth/Lana will remember what I said/did.

 

This is why we can't have nice things. BW will, and can never please everyone. If you aren't here for the story, and your bored of the end game. To that I say, leave and be done with it. Or, return in intervals I really couldn't care. I'll still be here enjoying what story BW release.

 

Everyone (story people included) need to chill.

Edited December 15, 2015 by TyonYlle

[GalacticKegger]

If you aren't here for the story, and your bored of the end game. To that I say, leave and be done with it.

Done. Edited December 15, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[ekwalizer]

a bunch of stuff

 

I don't think it is unreasonable to have expected to see a payoff or two from those decisions in the opening 9 chapters. We are now 9/16ths complete with this expansion and have yet to see one single meaningful decision - which includes the Devs decision to kill a companion.

 

They say there will be more of these staggered chapters post-16, but they also said that we'd *never* go 14 months without a new raid again. And come February, we will hit that 14 month mark ... again.

 

They *also* said that Open World PvP would be fixed on Ilum. That never happened and never will happen thanks to the Gree event.

 

Again, these things chip away at their credibility as a studio.

 

Every MMO has a story. The only things that set this one apart were the various perspectives and the voice acting. Given the propensity of space-bar smashing demands in *Every* Flashpoint I have been in a week after its release I simply do not put that much weight into the "people are here for the stories" mantra.

 

Edit: I think a lot of people would feel better about this "direction" if we were given a little "down the road" info in advance. Announcing (for example) that they are working on an SOR type series of dailies where we capture/kill Vaylin, with a similar ToS Operations mechanic would assuage a lot of anger.

 

I think it would be a mistake to roll Vaylin and Arcann into the same operation simply because you can get more mileage out of splitting them. The same holds true for the eventual final showdown with Vitiate/Valkorion. Those ought to be 3 separate raids. All that is simply used as examples but I don't think there would be a lot of heartburn if they provided a timeline of when *they hope* these things will hit the server.

 

And seriously, it does not take very long at all to design a new PvP arena using the Hero Engine.

Edited December 15, 2015 by ekwalizer

[LogunOne]

Again, you are confusing "Elder Game" with "Side Game". Changing a long standing definition to suit your own rational doesn't make it so.

 

I never once made the argument that there wasn't plenty to do in this game; especially for a returning player or a off-the-streeter. My point is, long standing members of this community are being alienated by lack of ****NEW**** Elder Game Content.

 

Elder Game has exactly THREE components:

Progression Raiding

Progression PvP

Progression Crafting

 

Elder Games can only be engaged in at max level; it is what you do in order to feel a sense of progression at level cap.

 

Side Games can be played virtually at any point in the game and are meant to be a distraction from the leveling mechanics.

 

It’s all endgame that directly or indirectly is necessary for certain paths to elder game progression.

 

Improving your gear from 208, 216, 220, and up to 224 … This is elder via Raiding or PvP.

(You can also get into 208, 216 and 220 by doing Alliance quests, Heroics +2 that drop crystals)

100% you’re 4 Outposts to get your best conquest bonus points each week. ……Side Game

(No Outpost decorations for your bonus is not a side game, as you can add up to a 100% bonus to your Weekly Personal conquest points earning you needed endgame progression matts)

Collect all companions ………Side Game

(No, collecting all the companions involves both PvP and downing Open world bosses it also provides a sense of progression and achievement)

Max out your influence with your companions (Vital to solo players) ….Side Game

(No, not a side game…. this is vital for the solo elder game)

Max your Influence with your Alliance - Level 20 (Likely vital for future story components) …. Side Game

(No not a side game, Influence with your Alliance provides unlocks at max level and is done by running end game content)

Collect Lock boxes from Heroic’s for Gear, Crystals, and Companion Gifts …….Side Game

(No, not a side game…ties in with progression systems and content)

Run Star Fortresses for all of the above and decorations trophies for your outposts …..Side Game

(No, not a side game…ties in with progression systems and content)

Meet your weekly conquest goals for the high end crafting components Side Game primarily…. Elder Game if you are doing it specifically for crafting.

(Right…and this ties in with companion and alliance influence, collecting crystals for gear , endgame crafting and the bonus you get for maxing out your outposts)

Help your guild with building out you capital ship ….. Side Game

(No not a side game.. capital ships actually provide a bonus for both personal and guild conquest goals that tie into high end matts for endgame crafting)

Run planetary dailies for rep and unlock crafting schematics and appearance gear … Side Game

(Not a side game… Planetary reputation unlock vendors with both crafting schematics and appearance gear or mounts that provide a scene of progression)

Run hard mode operations for the BIS gear in the game …. This is the same as your first example, just worded differently.

(Actually I was referring to the 224 gear BIS gear offered in the game)

14 Solo Mode Flashpoints Side Game ……that most of us have done a million times anyway before they were SOLO

(Yes, but now drops tie into endgame Alliance and companion progression)

14 Tactical Flashpoints Side Game …… same as above, they just weren't "tactical"

(Yes, but now drops tie into endgame Alliance and companion progression)

24 Hard Mode Flashpoints ……… One could make the argument that this is Elder Game content.

(Yes, and now feature an individual loot system and new endgame sets.)

10 Operations …. Again this plays right into your first example.

(Yes, and now features a highlighted weekly with bonus rewards.)

14 Open World Bosses ….Elder game

(Yes, it is and ties in with the companion and gear collection and weekly guild and personal conquest goals)

50 or More Heroic+2 zones …more than I could ever do in day …..They are meant to be done over the span of a week; but yes, they most certainly can be done in a day. Also, this is a …Side Game.

(Again not a side game as these also tie in with both Personal conquest goals, crystals for 208 and 216 gear and endgame crafting matts)

[ekwalizer]

It’s all endgame that directly or indirectly is necessary for certain paths to elder game progression.

 

Most of your examples, frankly, are stretching it. So I'm just going to exclude them. You clearly do not know what Elder Game means, and seem unwilling to accept that its definition was established long before this game was created.

 

(No Outpost decorations for your bonus is not a side game, as you can add up to a 100% bonus to your Weekly Personal conquest points earning you needed endgame progression matts) Ah yes, but the crafter must do the raid and loot the item in order to Reverse Engineer it. So, no.

Collect all companions ………Side Game

(No, collecting all the companions involves both PvP and downing Open world bosses it also provides a sense of progression and achievement) Is that a fact? Qyzen Fess can be obtained without killing a single World Boss. Pierce can be obtained with no PvP assuming you are a Warrior. The same with 4X and the Trooper. At this point, there is ZERO "Elder Game" aspect of the companions.

Max out your influence with your companions (Vital to solo players) ….Side Game

(No, not a side game…. this is vital for the solo elder game) No such animal.

Max your Influence with your Alliance - Level 20 (Likely vital for future story components) …. Side Game Speculation, and again, companions have exactly ZERO to do with Elder Game content.

 

You are still confused.

I didn't say that it wasn't "end game", I said it wasn't Elder Game and that they are Side Games.

 

Can you get your story companions to max influence before level cap? Yes.

Can you participate in Conquest before level cap? Yes.

Can you get 100% conquest Bonus prior to level cap? Yes.

Can you do H2s before level cap? Yes.

By the way, the Guild Ship provides very little bonus for Conquest; pales in comparison to the 4 Stronghold (not Outpost) bonus.

 

 

Can you purchase level 65 PvP gear before level cap? No.

Can you earn level 65 raid-gear before level 65? No.

Can you reverse engineer level 65 items for crafting prior to level cap in both actual level and crafting level? No.

 

I didn't make the definition, but you trying to change it reminds me of "7th Base" from Big Bang Theory.

[MandFlurry]

So I've put 4 toons both republic and empire through the new expansion. Honestly I can't even force myself to remotely care about the story.

 

I'm tired of koth being whiny. I'm tired of only flirting with Lana never getting any further. I'm irritated I can't romance Senya. I absolutely hate Theron Shan, why couldn't I kill him? In fact Why can't I kill more characters instead of being forced to recruit them?

 

BW you really let me down with the big sale of focusing on story, and the woefully inadequate delivery. I'm just disappointed. I think I will return after all the other chapters drop. I don't get tired of things easily but honestly I'm officially tired of this game.

 

Can someone tell me if this game will get better?

 

 

Yeah, i would love to be able to Romance Senya a lot myself, only seems the kids think that's sick here. She's very beautiful for her age, but for all we know Valkorian could've had her 'pregnated at an early early age. The sick old man lol. Hell in RL Music Star Lorreta Lynn was having kids at 14 EEEEEEEEEEK.

 

But Yeah, I do hate the fact that at least 2 out of 3 choices when you come out of the Carbonite usually means or implies that your character and Lana had a past relationship.

 

I love Lana more than any other character probably, and that's because she saved me when nobody else did. And that a Lot of Love for a Man or Woman to risk their whole life and tell every1 that ur God's gift to the Universe. That's a Woman all us men would love and would be far less likely to cheat on even in-game. But I do have some love and can identify as an Older man with Senya.

 

I have a feeling we might be able to Romance her later on though.

 

Yes a lot of the story is very repetitive, with not many alternate choices as a lot of us do want. A lot of ppl and even me for the most part would argue that there is enough different choices, but would also put the word "But in there, also wanting more choices for some things". Thing is that we don't know how much money EA gives back to SWTOR, and Voice-Overs can cost Millions of dollars that the Devs would have loved to have put more content in game.

 

I also think if a person wants to that He or She should be able to kill most NPC's and Companions that are anything but to us. Of course if we kill too many hated Companions and NPC's then we should be ready to get our Heads chopped off as well, if we kill too many important ppl. We should have to pay the price if we did something like that.

 

Also Hundreds of thousands to Millions more dollars would have to be spent for other Voice Overs and a lot more storylinees for each different decision we make, and that's a hellous undertaking to do that could take definitely more than a year for new content, and by then even more Subs would have left most likely.

 

So again for all the different things that we want i'm sure the devs would have liked to do to. But as a very famous person said " For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". that fits with everything that gets done in this MMO as well as others to.

Edited December 15, 2015 by MandFlurry

[Kaedusz]

Those people complaining there is nothing to do are too noob to know what to do and where to find it. Or are just burned out ,which means it is time for a break. Edited December 15, 2015 by Kaedusz

[Skaara]

Those people complaining there is nothing to do are too noob to know what to do and where to find it. Or are just burned out ,which means it is time for a break.

 

No, it couldn't just be that they don't find the expansion fun. That couldn't be it at all. Rationalization and denial are fun.

[Klarick]

I can answer yes to all of the above to include having my own guild ship.

 

The OPs point remains valid. Among my chief complaints (just like with SoR) is that I must complete the canned story to do anything at level 65 other than raid/pvp. With SoR, we had to complete the story to access the dailies. Here we must complete the story to get access to any of the alliance fluff.

 

This story really only goes one way, with very minor discrepancies between options; just like Makeb (ok, 2 ways but really only one outcome), just like Oricon, just like SoR - so this "return to story" narrative or "story driven MMO" concept is laughable at best. That is what makes its "repeatability" fall short.

 

With the vanilla game we had eight stories to choose from and keep us entertained while grinding alts. But at level 50, we had access to every level 50 daily mission regardless of where we left our stories. Yes, the side quests sucked after about 2-3 toons per side - but this entire story starts to suck after the first play through. That is the OPs point.

 

While we are free to level pretty much any way we can think up, we cannot participate in Odessen "content" without finishing the story. Without spacebar smashing it takes about 6-8 hours to go from start to finish in KotFE.

 

I have no interest in grinding out alliance rep across thirty or so level 60+ characters. But I would like to be able to run the dailies on as many toons as I might choose to do them on.

 

Well, there are other MMOs. However, I warn you, I did a little odessy and played the majority. of them. Im back here for a reason. You dont realize just how many things SWTOR got right until you subject yourself to the competition. Just my opinion of course.