Question for all the casuals

[Meraxos]

Where in my post was I telling people what to do?

That would be the part in your original post, for a start, where you tell us who prefer not to group to stop being rude and anti-social and instead to go group up with another player.

 

Those of us who prefer not to group with strangers did not enter the world of MMOs with this idea already in our heads. Our dislike of random groupings was born from a multitude of bad experiences.

 

I group with my wife sometimes since she is the only person I know in RL who also plays MMOs. Otherwise I just take it as a challenge to do as much as I can solo. Prior to 4.0 I would try to get my gear and my companions gear good enough that we could solo Heroics before the mobs stopped giving XP. Kept me amused. Now I'm at the mercy of Bioware to set the power level of my companions.

 

If you like to run in small groups, that's great, more power to you. But I don't tell you to solo more so please don't tell me to group more. I think this is reasonable.

[badboyishere]

<spoiler>

 

1:12.

Tora. Part of the kotfe story.

Tanno Vik. Part of the republic trooper story, as a companion, and part of the kotfe story.

 

Thought that was a bit more then "obscure". Have you not played through the story yet?

 

I haven't played through the (which?) story yet. Because I'm a casual due to severe altoholism.

[Tarkashae]

Stop raging about how none of you have any time to do anything now that you can't solo and look around. Stop being so anti-social and rude (you know, like these mythical people that you won't group up with), and try doing heroics with another guy.

 

This? This is offensive? I suppose I should have used the word "please".

Would you like me to fix it?

It wouldn't change your mind either way

 

I haven't played through the (which?) story yet. Because I'm a casual due to severe altoholism.

 

My bad.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Tarkashae

[nimmerstil]

This? This is offensive? I suppose I should have used the word "please".

Would you like me to fix it?

Alright, I'll try:

 

"Why can't you group with people?" Directed at the casual players from the title this sounds like you view people not wanting to group (with you) as some kind of deficit.

 

I stopped reading there.

 

"Stop raging about how ..."

You're saying that people not grouping are raging when they explain why, you're at the same time saying you're not interested in their reasons.

 

These statements are not advancing your case in any meaningful direction, if your OP had been limited to: "I may be harsh and blunt on these forums, but I'm asking you to run a heroic with me. I'm a great tank, and even after the nerf, my lvl 20 influence Xalek is better then nothing. Bring your favorite dps character and we'll go obliterate the enemy, or something. COMEON!", you would have made a better impression.

Edited November 21, 2015 by nimmerstil

[AlrikFassbauer]

Why can't you group with people?

 

"Can't" is the wrong question here, I think.

 

"Don't want to" is in my opinion closer to the reality.

 

Alright, I'll try:

 

"Why can't you group with people?" Directed at the casual players from the title this sounds like you view people not wanting to group (with you) as some kind of deficit.

 

I had a similar problem.

It really sounds like a deficit, like a handicap.

Edited November 21, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[Tarkashae]

nimmerstil,

 

from the replies I've read here. it seems to me that being nice, spamming general, being pushy, being blunt, being offensive or whatever else - won't work anyway.

(The people who show up to kill a named quest mob I'm standing there waiting for to spawn, ignore me when I /whisper "Hey, want to group to share quest credit?", tag the mob and take the credit, and leave...THOSE people. I honestly hate them)

 

People don't group because they don't want to and they take offense when I ask why, no matter how I ask.

 

Both sides, the people who want to group, and the people who don't, will never get along and for Bioware to force mix the content as they had is making what could be a great game into a chore.

 

As someone in another thread mentioned, making heroics *the* content for this expansion was a bad decision. They're just a grind, and the grind isn't FUN.

 

Solo players are going to leave in droves because the grind isn't fun.

MMO players are going to leave in droves because there aren't enough people to play with.

 

We all lose. I blame EA.

 

I wonder if Star Citizen will ever be more then a hangar simulator.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Tarkashae

[nimmerstil]

from the replies I've read here. it seems to me that being nice, spamming general, being pushy, being blunt, being offensive or whatever else - won't work anyway.

There's always going to be someone responding poorly, or just unexpected.

 

(The people who show up to kill a named quest mob I'm standing there waiting for to spawn, ignore me when I /whisper "Hey, want to group to share quest credit?", tag the mob and take the credit, and leave...THOSE people. I honestly hate them)

People don't group because they don't want to and they take offense when I ask why, no matter how I ask.

I am sure they exist, but you generalize to everyone who doesn't want to group, just like the people who don't want to group anymore because they had bad experiences with groups generalize grouping.

[Djiini]

Question for all of the non-casuals, why can't you just let us not group if we want to?

[BobFredJohn]

Question for all of the non-casuals, why can't you just let us not group if we want to?

 

They will when those people who don't like group content stop complaining that group stuff cannot be soloed.

 

If people want to play group content they should group. If people don't like grouping they have to accept they miss out on most of the endgame. Bear in mind the fp's now all have a solo mode for levelling so the solo players have even more to do.

[nimmerstil]

They will when those people who don't like group content stop complaining that group stuff cannot be soloed.

 

When the content is required for story progression in a game that claims to put Story First then their complaint is justified.

[Kaedusz]

You don't even need to group. 2+ quests have always been easy to do at max level, unless you are a complete moron.But you have to actually play the game to the full capabilities of your class, not just sit there and dish out a rotation and lollygag. Edited November 22, 2015 by Kaedusz

[BobFredJohn]

When the content is required for story progression in a game that claims to put Story First then their complaint is justified.

 

I never noticed any group content being part of the story. Granted there is a story behind ops but if you skip ops the storyline still makes sense. What I am referring to is a "if you skip this mission you wont know what is going on in the story." None of those types of missions are group ones.

 

And as for wanting to see the story of every mission there is a simple answer. The rewards and story provided by group based missions is for people who are willing to do group based missions. You have some options:

1. Miss some side (not main) story by not doing the group content

2. Do some group content (and in the process realise the elitists you are trying to avoid are not as common as you assume)

3. Do the story out of order by overlevelling and going back to it

4. I am sure some people have uploaded cutscenes onto youtube. As for codex entries of group content maybe its on the web somewhere but unlikely I think.

 

Basically the only person making you miss story is you.

[Halinalle]

I never noticed any group content being part of the story. Granted there is a story behind ops but if you skip ops the storyline still makes sense. What I am referring to is a "if you skip this mission you wont know what is going on in the story." None of those types of missions are group ones.

 

That's weird because heroic 2+ quests have never been difficult. I liked to do them as tank as close to intented level as possible. Now at max level with level sync I can do some of them even without companion. But of course they shouldn't be balanced for max level characters.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Halinalle

[Wulfbur]

main reason is that each time I group in a PUG I encountered too many elitists grouping that have nothing to offer but criticism and insults.

The other issue are waiting around for people to join or get to the spot then 5 minutes later drop out of the group saying they need to go.

 

I spent more time waiting on other people so I prefer to solo so I can enjoy the time I am on and progress as I want. I am in a 3 person guild so we do not group often and I won't join a larger one since these are my friends. Larger guilds have larger drama and I get enough of that in real life.

 

So I prefer to solo. If people were more patient, willing to teach and have a basic instinct to be polite - maybe.

[Qaoz]

Why can't you group with people?

 

Who says we can't? I consider myself a casual, but I still do random flashpoints and warzones. That being said, trying to enjoy the story of the game while grouped up is not always the easiest thing. The "SKIP PLZ **** SKIP SKIP SKIP!" spam gets on your nerves, even when you know that they can't see that you're the one holding back the group.

 

I may be harsh and blunt on these forums, but I'm asking you to run a heroic with me. I'm a great tank, and even after the nerf, my lvl 20 influence Xalek is better then nothing. Bring your favorite dps character and we'll go obliterate the enemy, or something. COMEON!

 

What does this have to do with casuals? How about the hardcore players who sit on the fleet station 24/7 while waiting for their ranked warzones and operations? They could run heroics with you while they wait, but they don't.

 

I don't see the point of your rant here. Are you dissatisfied with people disliking the companion nerfs? Or are you dissatisfied with the lack of people wanting to run heroics with you?

[Tarkashae]

Who says we can't? I consider myself a casual, but I still do random flashpoints and warzones. That being said, trying to enjoy the story of the game while grouped up is not always the easiest thing. The "SKIP PLZ **** SKIP SKIP SKIP!" spam gets on your nerves, even when you know that they can't see that you're the one holding back the group.

 

 

 

What does this have to do with casuals? How about the hardcore players who sit on the fleet station 24/7 while waiting for their ranked warzones and operations? They could run heroics with you while they wait, but they don't.

 

I don't see the point of your rant here. Are you dissatisfied with people disliking the companion nerfs? Or are you dissatisfied with the lack of people wanting to run heroics with you?

 

I've given up attempting to do anything in this game, really. I don't do operations, I don't run flashpoints, I don't do pvp, I don't do world bosses...

Only thing left to do is run weekly heroics by myself, and play dress up with my characters and interior decorator of my strongholds.

 

People want to argue the details and ignore the point.

I hope Bioware shuts it down, then both "sides" will feel like they won.

Carry on.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Tarkashae

[Ganhob]

I'm not sure I'll ever understand solo only players, not all of them per say but some of them. Not because of the play style, but because of the hyperbole that I've seen thrown around here ad nausea. And, if anyone says any different it's automatic to call them an elitist jerk or something. Is there truth that there are plenty of players out there who are jerks? Absolutely, but what exactly is this elitist definition? I've been called an elitist before after responding to some posts because I display my raid accomplishments in my signature, and while I am incredibly proud of what I've accomplished in the game and like showing it, does that actually make me an elitist? I try to look at things rationally, without emotion, and attempt to debate things that are based in fact without giving in to my own emotions regarding a topic. I've lost my cool with exactly one player in a flash point in the past 2-3 years (and rightly so got called out for it on the forums, which I responded to so people knew I was that person which made me feel like I owned up to my actions). In a group finder op if I say we don't have the DPS, that's not a knock on the people, it's a simple fact. Each encounter has a mathematical minimum that is required for the group to pass. If it's not there, it's not there. If I want to try it again later, I can. It's not meant as a jab, or an insult. It's an admission of fact.

 

Most of the players that people consider actually elite don't check your gear and then rail on to you about it. Most don't check your achievements and rail on about it to you. I check people's achievements when a) they are in a guild I know is either around mine, or one of the more skilled by reputation to see where they are or what they've been able to do. or b) when they're being a jerk so I know if they have actually done things in this game that warrant the attitude (which most times they haven't). The only other time I actively look at achievements or gear is for my own raid team if I'm recruiting, or planning who gets what gear from a raid. And, there are a lot more people who do what I do than take it upon ourselves to beat our chests, flop our man parts, or generally try to destroy another player. Most high level players are comfortable in their own skins, and quite frankly because we enjoy doing things the way we do i.e with much regard to detail, we have more important things in our minds than truly going so deeply into another person's experience.

 

If a player doesn't space bar? Who cares. I space bar my own cut scenes because I've seen the videos a million times. I couldn't care less if someone else space bars. The instance will progress when everyone is ready. Not a single person I play with regularly demands things from other players. Maybe it's a rare case, but I actually think it isn't. Mainly we're buying time until our raids. If someone breaks CC, before the next pull I'll say in chat "ccing X" so people know, if they still don't follow it oh well, I'll flash bang it or dirty kick it if need be to provide time for the group. Because I know my class I don't worry about if this gets broken, because I know I have a plan B or C to deal with it. If people clearly don't know what's going on in a fight, I will type it out in chat. I won't yell about them not knowing.

 

Elite players don't do the things that are being described by some other players of this game, and at least right now the crowd that is heavily against grouping (and I only say this because the term elitist gets tossed around a lot in these threads). Honestly, these "elitists" are more than likely "wanna-be" elite players. Are there elite players who are jerks? Most likely. That can't be ruled out. But, you don't find them talking much on the forums. You may find them in threads that talk about operations and getting around difficult spots, but aside from that you don't see many of them.

 

FWIW: I am not elite. I consider myself very capable, but I am not elite. I know who the elite players are on my server, and I know they're better than I am. I just think that the whole elitist term is just about as accurate in describing elite players as the casual term is at describing truly casual players.... not very. Some casuals are truly casual i.e they don't have tons of time to delve deeply into the game, and maybe the they don't want to, so they play when they want to, and enjoy it when they do play. Maybe that means 1 night a week. Maybe it's different. But that to me is casual. Just as elite means something different to me than what is thrown around as elitist here. On both sides there's truly ignorant people posing as one or the other. But, ignorance doesn't make one elite, nor does it make one casual.

 

 

Tl;Dr: I had words. I said them. I said them on a forum. And, I'm sure people will not agree with the words I've said.

 

I like your post. You addressed something that I felt should have been stated a long time ago. Both sides are guilty of branding game play styles. I always felt that the truly elite were just that. They are very good at the game, and are patient and I always envisioned them as the silent ones. (obviously as you said some are jerks) but there are casual folks who can be jerks as well.

 

I feel your approach to dealing with this is how I deal with it as well. I am a middle of the road kind of game style. I can be casual at times and other times I can be just as hardcore (or elite) as others. In the end I just want to enjoy the game. Sometimes I prefer to solo, while others I prefer to group. At the end of the day it comes down to preference.

 

This is why I will never post a thread posing the kind of question that has been asked in this thread. I understand fully that every player is entitled to play the game however, they wish. Nobody will ever change that. The sooner both sides of the street realize you can't force somebody to group with you or just be solo the better this game will be.

 

For the sake of saying it lets be honest. BW fudged this one up. Its clear they didn't test this. Its clear they didn't use their own player base in a controlled test environment. Its very clear that this patch has divided the community. BW has managed to piss off both camps in this respects. Now folks are spending more time arguing, then playing the game.

 

TL:DR

I agree with this post here, and think we all can agree BW messed this one up.

[beattlebilly]

They will when those people who don't like group content stop complaining that group stuff cannot be soloed.

 

If people want to play group content they should group. If people don't like grouping they have to accept they miss out on most of the endgame. Bear in mind the fp's now all have a solo mode for levelling so the solo players have even more to do.

What group content do they complain about not being able to solo?

 

I've given up attempting to do anything in this game, really. I don't do operations, I don't run flashpoints, I don't do pvp, I don't do world bosses...

Only thing left to do is run weekly heroics by myself, and play dress up with my characters and interior decorator of my strongholds.

 

People want to argue the details and ignore the point.

I hope Bioware shuts it down, then both "sides" will feel like they won.

Carry on.

Why don't you run that content anymore? There's the group finder, and anytime I've used it I haven't had a lot of issues with the groups.(haven't used it for OPs though, I don't do OPs )

 

Where are your guildies in all of this?

[EnkiduNineEight]

Its because this most recent generation of new games/iincoming gamers define casual differently than the previous generations.

 

Casual used to be that you had other obligations and so you only gamed 'casually' meaning for short periods of time when you could find the time, and so doing some things was a bit more difficult because gaming content was often designed so that a raid might takes many hours of dedicated play to clear.

 

Casual thus also meant you likely didn't have the top tier gear, but it didn't mean you were a 'bad'.

 

As games evolved to make the experience for these players better, and to cut the length of high end content down etc, so that if you only had a 1 or 2 hour block in which to play on occasion, and they made the game feem more like you were able to accomplish something in a shorter period of time, the bar got lowered and what was slowly becoming defined as a 'casual player' changed.

 

Casuals now are basically the 'bads' from before. These are people who may not have time restrictions on their schedules etc but who endeavor to be good at something but instead a new generation of special snowflake narcissists who have been used to being catered to their entire life who think that participation means they deserve achievement/reward.

 

Now get off my lawn *shakes cane*

[AshlaBoga]

For anyone who says they can't find a group on Harbinger for Star Fortress or Qyzen.

 

Last week someone put LF3M for Heroic Alderaan SF.

I swapped over to a toon who needed it in just under 30 seconds.

And there was no room left.

 

Basically their average recruitment was 1 player/9 seconds.

 

And this was at 2 AM on a Tuesday, hardly prime time.

[Lilarienne]

Why can't you group with people?

 

I work full time, I got 2 dogs and a cat to deal with. I only have a couple hours a day to play games.

 

Yet, I don't see the problem with most of the other people in the games I play. I get groups for heroic content a a daily basis, and most of the time, they are NOT terrible, rude jerks. We just do the dungeon/flashpoint, say thanks for the group, and move on. Occasionally, someone asks a question about the game, and if I know the answer, I tell them.

 

I made a post a few days ago asking for people who play in the early morning on Jedi Covenant to start aa morning heroic/whatever group. I GOT NO ONE.

 

Stop raging about how none of you have any time to do anything now that you can't solo and look around. Stop being so anti-social and rude (you know, like these mythical people that you won't group up with), and try doing heroics with another guy.

 

I may be harsh and blunt on these forums, but I'm asking you to run a heroic with me. I'm a great tank, and even after the nerf, my lvl 20 influence Xalek is better then nothing. Bring your favorite dps character and we'll go obliterate the enemy, or something. COMEON!

 

In no particular order:

 

Because I've spent enough time playing MMO's (Ever Quest, DAOC, EQII, SWG, LOTRO, SWTOR, Star Trek Online... I am probably forgetting something) to know that while not everyone is rude/obnoxious that there are enough who are to make me seriously hesitant about grouping up with strangers.

 

Having pets is not the same thing as having human children. Even though most of my play time is when they are asleep if a child wakes up in the middle of the night and needs me I am going to have to leave. That doesn't mean I don't know how to play my class, am uncommitted or whatever-the-heck else. That makes me a person who has her priorities in order.

 

Not wanting to group with misogynists or creeps. (My main is a male character, because by playing a male character I can largely avoid being hit on, referred to using offensive terminology, sent sexual messages, etc..)

 

Not wanting to group with beggars. No, I cannot "spare" a couple hundred thousand credits.

 

I play this game for fun. It's not fun to deal with misogynists, beggars, people who think I don't know how to play my class because I'm not a l33t d00d, etc..

[damonskye]

To the OP:

 

Because I don't f'ing want to.

 

Also, I think it really sucks to make a thread just to address "the casuals" as if we're somehow some lesser subspecies of player. I hate to tell ya, sport, but "casuals" are about 90% of your fellow players, and just because you try to label us "casuals" as if we have some hideous disease or are something to be loathed, doesn't take away from the fact that it's our money paying for this game just as much as yours.

[Tarkashae]

To the OP:

 

Because I don't f'ing want to.

 

Also, I think it really sucks to make a thread just to address "the casuals" as if we're somehow some lesser subspecies of player. I hate to tell ya, sport, but "casuals" are about 90% of your fellow players, and just because you try to label us "casuals" as if we have some hideous disease or are something to be loathed, doesn't take away from the fact that it's our money paying for this game just as much as yours.

 

Sigh. Are you serious?

Did you read anything past the thread title before you started ranting at me?

 

This thread reminds me of

http://youtu.be/2KRkR8HaR9c

Edited November 22, 2015 by Tarkashae

[BobFredJohn]

What group content do they complain about not being able to solo?

 

I'm not really sure. There was another person who replied to that saying they don't like having story content being in group missions, but I am not sure which missions those are as I have never seen key elements of story or plot in a heroic mission.

 

Really what it is that gets on my nerves is the "I don't like doing A, therefore BW messed up by having A in the game"

 

An analogy would be me and NiM ops. I Have never run a NiM op, only run 3 HM ops (only 1 of which I completed) in the time I have been playing. I don't intend to run NiM ops and I doubt I ever will be able to. I don't come on the forum writing stuff like "BW you are preventing me getting 224 gear, its unfair" because I know the thing that stops me getting 224 is me.

 

And there are people who decide "I don't want to do any group content" then come to forums to complain that the game has group content which they refuse to do and therefore are missing out on A (whatever A may be). The only reason they miss out is through their own choice.

Edited November 22, 2015 by BobFredJohn

[LordStarFyre]

not excuses. reasons.

 

just because you don't mind, doesn't mean others should be ok with it.

 

sometimes I'm group. when I'm in a mood for adjusting to other people's playstyles, finding compromises, all that stuff. sometimes I group becasue I want to play with a friend.

 

and sometimes.. I just want to play at my own pace, not feel guilty for randomly changing my route or afking because while playing I'm also working on something in real life, or escaping out of the conversation 5 times because I'm looking for a perfect in character set up, or scavenging every single dead mob, or because gosh darn it, I want to keep all the decorations that drop and there are very few people who are ok with me doing that while we are running together, and they are not always on at the time I have a moment to play.

 

playing with other people, even the nicest people in a world - comes with conditions and compromises. and there is many a time when I just don't want to deal with it. I just want to relax and do my own thing.

 

yes, I'm aware of single player games. i have a large library of them. the problem is... sometimes - I DO feel like playing with other people. hence - the mmo.

 

edited to add. Eric stated, directly stated that that content should be soloable (as in you and your companion). especially planetary heroics.

and yes, yes in theory it still is... just requires way more effort that its worth for most people. and since that and Star Fortresses are de facto end game content? what exactly are we supposed to be doing here. maybe if they didn't make those heroics as the primary way of getting alliance boxes. maybe if they didn't require Heroic star fortress completion for alliance recruitment. so many maybe's.

 

AMEN! Frankly, Bioware should give the Gank-Happy PVP Players, and Social-butterfly Group Addict Players a Switch so they can nerf their own Companions if they want or need their companions nerfed into uselessness, but for the Players who want to to solo, give people the choice. The 4.02 Patch may be the last straw for many Folks, and some ineffective Companion "buff" slipped in as some half baked window dressing, with the usual "Excuses" Special Sauce as explanation of why the change is so needed, isn't going to cut it.

 

I'm waiting to see what Bioware does with this self inflicted wound that they've created for themselves, and if it will simply be some band-aid on a bullet wound "fix" they try to implement.