So, can anyone explain why the "OP" companions were a bad thing for everyone?

[Jamtas]

My point with an analogy.

 

When it is raining you have the choice to use your umbrella or not. If you prefer (or don't mind) to get wet, don't use it. But let other people use umbrellas if they want. If they use them to keep dry, that won't prevent you from getting wet, if that's what you want.

 

The people supporting the nerf think that, since they live in a sunny country, umbrellas should be be forbidden for everyone, wherever they live and wathever the weather is.

 

here's the funny thing with analogies- they work both ways.

 

Say you go to the gym and all that is available are stuffed animals. "These are too easy to lift, can we have heavier actual weights?" you may ask

 

"If you need a challenge, why don't you break your arm to make it useless and then duct tape 20 of the animals to your pinky finger and lift that way? There now you have a challenge and the rest of us can keep using our stuffed bears."

 

-----

 

Mainly that was in jest to be an arse of sorts. I do agree that the nerf was a bit over done and am fine with more casual players having a way to do content - though it shouldn't be so god mode, IMO. For me personally NiM ops is where I go for challenges, not heroics. (for others that not the case)

Edited November 18, 2015 by Jamtas

[Vankris]

 

Can any of those players, please, say what was wrong with the "OP" companions? What was wrong, really?

 

repetitive trivial content become old very quickly. I become boring, tedious, a chore, like daily.

 

content need to be either

- repetitive but non trivial to bring the excitement

- or trivial but new and one time only.

[vadess]

So basically you are saying that all the players ares soldiers of the same army and therefore must bne equally trained and do the same things.... Just a little flaw: this is a game, not a war.

 

Ummmm... the person was using a metaphor.

[branmakmuffin]

Ummmm... the person was using a metaphor.

And not a very good one, as is usually the case with over-the-top analogies involving a game and real life.

Edited November 18, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[Glower]

And how is that nerfing made playing of pure solo story missions between cutscenes hard or impossible?

 

Who said it is impossible? I can solo it without companion.

But it's just not fun and tedious, also story is dull after first two times. So i must suffer with mobs between cutscenes or at H2 heroics grind stage... Oh thanks!

[monsterfurby]

repetitive trivial content become old very quickly. I become boring, tedious, a chore, like daily.

 

content need to be either

- repetitive but non trivial to bring the excitement

- or trivial but new and one time only.

 

To be honest, I'll take repetitive trivial content for brainless entertainment over what feels like a minute of downtime between every single encounter any day.

[Palominebald]

I've just read all 7 pages of this thread and I think it's clear that most people think the nerf was too much. Some people are hard core and want a challenge in all aspects of the game, others want to run through a story and kick a little booty along the way. Both extremes are not healthy to BIOWare's financial future. Nor will they satisfy the average user. So I'll throw in my two cents as follows:

 

Before this patch, on my 65 Jedi Shadow (208/216), I could battle the Oricon Corrupted Bothrium Beast fairly easily by interrupting it. My companion would kill the adds and I killed the beast. Usually within 2 interruptions. I tried that today, and died repeatedly. I used the same rotation and couldn't get it down to 50% before I died. I think it is clear that more nerfing has gone into this release than just the companions. Or I didn't realize how much I depended on my companions. Before the patch, I never lost more than 25% of my health and killed it within 2 interruptions. Now I cannot kill the beast. I don't see the advantage to this much regression in game play on past content. I also, don't want to have to pair up with another gamer for such a trivial task, but the way it is, I'll have to. I'm sure you hard core gamers think that's silly, but I don't know what else to do. If this doesn't change, the game is no fun for me and I'll look elsewhere for my entertainment.

 

Updated: Ran my Trooper and he killed beast as fast as he used to. Problem is what happened to my Jedi Shadow and melee fighting...

Edited November 18, 2015 by Palominebald

[Gallandaeus]

There is no real argument for the nerfs period. The people that wanted a "challenge" are the same ones that you described, and any solo player worth their salt that likes a challenge will tell you that NONE of the solo content that came with 4.0 is in any way the "challenging" content that a solo player seeks. But as a result of the whiny minority, we now have to slug through repeatable, boring content at a reduced rate simply because the challenge they wanted didn't exist (and no, challenge is not the same thing as making something tedious). Anyone that defends these changes has no actual comprehension of the concept of the content they were running in the form of H2 repeatables. Not a single player. Had they introduced H4 weeklies that actually DID challenge you and maybe encourage teaming I sincerely doubt we'd have the whiners we do now. But as it goes, ignorance apparently dictates a person's response to their situation, and this grindable solo content apparently is no exception to said ignorance.

[Pavijan]

I've just read all 7 pages of this thread and I think it's clear that most people think the nerf was too much. Some people are hard core and want a challenge in all aspects of the game, others want to run through a story and kick a little booty along the way. Both extremes are not healthy to BIOWare's financial future. Nor will they satisfy the average user. So I'll throw in my two cents as follows:

 

Before this patch, on my 65 Jedi Shadow (208/216), I could battle the Oricon Corrupted Bothrium Beast fairly easily by interrupting it. My companion would kill the adds and I killed the beast. Usually within 2 interruptions. I tried that today, and died repeatedly. I used the same rotation and couldn't get it down to 50% before I died. I think it is clear that more nerfing has gone into this release than just the companions. Or I didn't realize how much I depended on my companions. Before the patch, I never lost more than 25% of my health and killed it within 2 interruptions. Now I cannot kill the beast. I don't see the advantage to this much regression in game play on past content. I also, don't want to have to pair up with another gamer for such a trivial task, but the way it is, I'll have to. I'm sure you hard core gamers think that's silly, but I don't know what else to do. If this doesn't change, the game is no fun for me and I'll look elsewhere for my entertainment.

 

I was able to beat best on Oricon just by interrupting in in 2.5 patch in 148 gear, and every time untill 4.0 . I will try to so so abaind just to see waht is the situation now.

[Pavijan]

There is no real argument for the nerfs period. The people that wanted a "challenge" are the same ones that you described, and any solo player worth their salt that likes a challenge will tell you that NONE of the solo content that came with 4.0 is in any way the "challenging" content that a solo player seeks. But as a result of the whiny minority, we now have to slug through repeatable, boring content at a reduced rate simply because the challenge they wanted didn't exist (and no, challenge is not the same thing as making something tedious). Anyone that defends these changes has no actual comprehension of the concept of the content they were running in the form of H2 repeatables. Not a single player. Had they introduced H4 weeklies that actually DID challenge you and maybe encourage teaming I sincerely doubt we'd have the whiners we do now. But as it goes, ignorance apparently dictates a person's response to their situation, and this grindable solo content apparently is no exception to said ignorance.

 

Repeatable boring content is repeatable boring content no matter how you took it. Why do you event want to do that if you think that it's boring?

 

I'm not looking for challenge. I'm looking for the need of INTERACTIVITY which was lost in 4.0, while doing STORY (not reapeatable) content .

 

And is you seemingly do not comprehend the point of H2 repeatables : They are ment for 2 newbie players who don't know what they are doing, but together they are able to beat it , or 1 experienced player who knows how to use his abilities and is able to beat it solo through smart play.

[Deamandred]

I like to solo, but even I agree, the companions were a bit high-strung. We are supposed to be the heroes, not our companions.

Now, I disagree with how much they cut them back as well. They should still be feasible as they were, but their strength didn't need scaled back as much as they were.

 

at most a 25 - 30% reduction was warranted not the 60-70% reduction that some are reporting.

[heythereqt]

It was because they were too stupid to figure out how to dismiss or pacify their companion in order to get the "hard mode" back. It's that simple.

 

For anything that mattered in the game, companions were a non-issue. Organized PVP? Nope, they don't come up at all. Operations? No one with half a brain would choose a dumb companion that can't move out of stuff for an operation. Hard modes? Ditto.

 

But hey, now that lots of grindy solo stuff wasn't as intolerable as it used to be, ****, the game is becoming uber casual! Whaaaa! We're going to cry and whine like little babies because that guy over there isn't having to spend half an hour getting through a single instanced mission on Tattooine, and I'm too stupid to hit that second companion button to turn mine off so I can take a little longer doing stuff so I can feel ELEETZ! Whaaa!

 

It's pathetic all around.

 

There was nothing wrong with companions the way they were. Just a small minority of elitist basement dwellers who think they're entitled to tell you how you should spend your money and play your game.

 

If Biofail had been smart, they would have left them alone and let people use the grind to 65 to learn how to play the game, then added harder endgame content. Essentially two games in one. Learning game, real game.

 

All those people who re-subbed gone again.

 

And until the download fiasco is fixed, its still an ongoing faceplant for them.

 

These two posts pretty much hit the nail on the head. Couldn't agree more.

 

It wasn't challenging enough for me.

 

No, no, no, and no. Why should I have to tweak my companions in order to make the game more challenging? I don't care enough to go through that. I'll play as long as its fun, and move on once its not. Its a moot point, BW does not seem to have a good track record of making changes based on forum posts. I believe they did this based on numbers they were seeing in game, not because a few people said they should, but who knows.

 

So the proper solution is to nerf the companions into uselessness, making the game no longer enjoyable for literally thousands of casual solo players, just because you couldn't be bothered to tweak your companions to a state of your own personal liking? Seems logical. "I don't want my own companions to play how I wan't them to play...I want everyone else's companions to play how I want them to play, even if they don't like it."

 

One of the most brilliant lines in The Matrix was when Smith said that the machines' first attempt at the virtual world was a complete disaster because they had tried to create a perfect utopia for humans to live in.

 

We need to have challenge in our lives, because without that there's no sense of real accomplishment either.

 

You're really just grasping at straws here. This isn't The Matrix. A game should be both fun and challenging. There are plenty of challenges in the form of OPs, FPs, PvP, datacron hunting, alliance grinds. Having companions that progressed with influence and were powerful was fun for most of us. They took that fun and turned it into a tedious grind. Why should most players (especially beginners) have to suffer through an endless grind of trash mobs just because that's the way you want it to be?

[JediKnightKami]

Why not just have it so it's an option?

 

Reading the reply on Dulfy, the dev said there was a big split on whether the community liked or disliked the new companion buffs. To me personally, I think they overdid the nerf, but for those who want that buff to stay the same why not just have it so that you can choose to toggle a "New Player Experience Mode" or something.

 

Those who want it just turn it on, those who don't want it just turn it off. Disable achievements or legacy titles or whatever for those in new player experience mode or even put a big "Player in New Player Experience Mode" right under their name so other people (cough ops/flaspoints cough) are aware that this player is in the new player experience mode, whatever, just allow the portion of the "big split" to be happy with the old companions instead of forcing everyone with the companion nerf

Edited November 18, 2015 by JediKnightKami

[MaximusRex]

Get knocked off your speeder? Expect to die. 2 mobs chasing you? Expect to die.

 

This is such a bold faced lie I can't even believe that you could post it with straight face.

[JattaGin]

This is such a bold faced lie I can't even believe that you could post it with straight face.

 

How can "Expect to die" be a lie? He didn't write that your char actually dies.

 

You should always expect your char to die. If you don't, you just get cocky. And then your char dies.

[TUXs]

This is such a bold faced lie I can't even believe that you could post it with straight face.

You're telling me you can take on 2 heroic mobs at once? I don't believe you. Not at all.

[Palominebald]

I was able to beat best on Oricon just by interrupting in in 2.5 patch in 148 gear, and every time untill 4.0 . I will try to so so abaind just to see waht is the situation now.

I just tried my Trooper and he killed beast as fast as he used to. Problem is with my Jedi Shadow not being able to fight a melee fight with it. Something has changed with him. I'll try another melee fighter and see if he has the same problem.

 

Update: Just tried my Jedi Knight and beast went down pretty easy as well. Question is still why was Jedi Shadow so different, I tried 3 times on Jedi Shadow and couldn't get beast down below 50%....I'll try again later and see if there is anything else I can do. Somethings changed with that class....lol

Edited November 18, 2015 by Palominebald
Updated for another class

[Chernyo]

Q: "So, can anyone explain why the "OP" companions were a bad thing for everyone? "

A: if you played since 2003-2005 continuously MMOs you would notice that most of them are of so called "theme park" kind - where developers work hard to provide some "content" for players. In return players pay something,somehow to developers. And all of them suffer tremendously from one common problem - developers can't generate content as fast as players can "eat it", hence developers attempt to slow down as much as possible game pace and increase the playable time for players. The same award program that kept people to not drop their subscription before 4.0 was implemented in every other MMO. especially WOW - Blizzard went as far to gift D3 to people subing for whole year (!)

 

You could search for another post in this forum, if not deleted already for another player who transposed his observations from other MMOs over SWTOR - drawn some conclusions and BioWare marked him as data miner (Big time ).

 

As British gov says - Keep Calm And Continue The Grind Of Affection.

 

edit: so it is bad because Devs can't keep up with customer demands and produce garbage, and players experience huge gaps between content patches.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Chernyo
forgot the answer

[ZanyaCross]

You know w what....YOU want a challenge? Try

* driving through Frazier or North Memphis after sundown.

* shopping at the southland mall the weekend after thanksgiving and NOT get robbed.

* walking through south Memphis or Orange Mound at ANY TIME OF DAY without getting shot, robbed, or stabbed.

 

 

Now THAT is a challenge. I live in one of the most dangerous cities in the United States, and made it past age 25 without getting locked up or shot. (Although I didn't avoid getting stabbed at age 13 cause some punk wanted my coat.) THAT'S an accomplishment.

 

I've had more fun in game over the last month than I did SINCE LAUNCH...until yesterday.

 

So guess what you can do with your "make believe" challenges and accomplishments.

 

Wow, drama much?

 

News flash, I grew up in, and still live in, a high-crime neighborhood. Somebody got murdered on my corner last year, and someone else at the local deli the year before. Some building is always on fire and the cops are always like a military occupation. That's life, and I'm thankful for the one I have because I know some people got a way worse deal than I did, so excuse me if I don't gush with sympathy for you while you cry about a video game's solo content being bumped up to easy.

 

Guess what you can do with your childish assumptions?

Edited November 18, 2015 by ZanyaCross