So, can anyone explain why the "OP" companions were a bad thing for everyone?

[Pirindolo]

My point with an analogy.

 

When it is raining you have the choice to use your umbrella or not. If you prefer (or don't mind) to get wet, don't use it. But let other people use umbrellas if they want. If they use them to keep dry, that won't prevent you from getting wet, if that's what you want.

 

The people supporting the nerf think that, since they live in a sunny country, umbrellas should be be forbidden for everyone, wherever they live and wathever the weather is.

[Quraswren]

It was because they were too stupid to figure out how to dismiss or pacify their companion in order to get the "hard mode" back. It's that simple.

 

For anything that mattered in the game, companions were a non-issue. Organized PVP? Nope, they don't come up at all. Operations? No one with half a brain would choose a dumb companion that can't move out of stuff for an operation. Hard modes? Ditto.

 

But hey, now that lots of grindy solo stuff wasn't as intolerable as it used to be, ****, the game is becoming uber casual! Whaaaa! We're going to cry and whine like little babies because that guy over there isn't having to spend half an hour getting through a single instanced mission on Tattooine, and I'm too stupid to hit that second companion button to turn mine off so I can take a little longer doing stuff so I can feel ELEETZ! Whaaa!

 

It's pathetic all around.

 

Pretty much this in a nutshell ^

 

Lets nerf powerful companions to make the grind more of a grind and make solo content take longer. Some want challenge (aka confused with lets just make it take longer) but can't be bothered to use one of the 22 lesser leveled companion to achieve that on their own. Sad days in SWTOR with this nerf.

[Eillack]

They weren't OP, they were finally on par with players, and actually had usefulness.

 

Nerfing crowd cried, and now we have companions that mean nothing, and "solo" heroics that should be reverted back to normal heroics at this point.

[TUXs]

They weren't OP, they were finally on par with players, and actually had usefulness.

 

Nerfing crowd cried, and now we have companions that mean nothing, and "solo" heroics that should be reverted back to normal heroics at this point.

When Eillack and I agree, you know Bioware ****** up!

[Gorrdan]

They weren't OP, they were finally on par with players, and actually had usefulness.

 

Nerfing crowd cried, and now we have companions that mean nothing, and "solo" heroics that should be reverted back to normal heroics at this point.

 

They are even more useless than comps during 3.0 when you could actually gear them up and increase their stats.

[Halinalle]

Actually they could easily tone down them even more.

 

I "tanked" Ilum heroic today mostly in dps gear, only tanking gear my Shadow had was 208 shield offhand. I used rank 1 Akk Dog as healer. No problems at all.

[Polly_Pocket]

And how long do you think the novelty of that would have lasted?

 

Your question doesn't even make sense in light of what I posted.

 

For a challenge I do HM/NiM on my 220+ geared Sorc healer. Re-leveling new characters again, through old content I have seen a million times before, suddenly became fun again because of strong companions. This was not something I was doing previously, and now have no intention of in the future. I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks H2+ should be challenging are just being elitist ***** to casuals.

 

Asking me how long until leveling with strong companions will bore me is just willfully ignorant, since we'll never know how long that could have been fun, since it got nerfed into oblivion.

[TUXs]

They are even more useless than comps during 3.0 when you could actually gear them up and increase their stats.

 

Well in 3.0, you could go back to 80% of the planets and it didn't matter what gear you had on...but now...there's literally NO PLACE a casual gamer can go. None. They'll never find any content anything but difficult.

[Jadescythe]

What was wrong is entirely subjective. For players who truly only want to walk around and watch cutscenes, there was nothing wrong. There are many players who enjoy that type of game and it is the reason that Telltale is in business. It was not, however, what BW intended for this game to be.

 

As for raiding, it is still the best option for challenging PvE content. But I'm not always raiding and I have no particular desire to do solo content that is faceroll easy. Not to mention there is no new PvE or PvP content at end game, only new solo content. I would be fine with a little buff back to healing companions after seeing the changes, but going back to god mode isn't the solution either.

[ImmortalLowlife]

Because, and this is going to seem counter-intuitive to some, having no challenge means people would get bored fast in this game and leave. Oh they say that having a heal-bot who can keep them topped off through nearly any assault, no matter how they play, might is fun for them, but I guarantee you that it wouldn't last long.

 

One of the most brilliant lines in The Matrix was when Smith said that the machines' first attempt at the virtual world was a complete disaster because they had tried to create a perfect utopia for humans to live in.

 

We need to have challenge in our lives, because without that there's no sense of real accomplishment either.

 

You know w what....YOU want a challenge? Try

* driving through Frazier or North Memphis after sundown.

* shopping at the southland mall the weekend after thanksgiving and NOT get robbed.

* walking through south Memphis or Orange Mound at ANY TIME OF DAY without getting shot, robbed, or stabbed.

 

 

Now THAT is a challenge. I live in one of the most dangerous cities in the United States, and made it past age 25 without getting locked up or shot. (Although I didn't avoid getting stabbed at age 13 cause some punk wanted my coat.) THAT'S an accomplishment.

 

I've had more fun in game over the last month than I did SINCE LAUNCH...until yesterday.

 

So guess what you can do with your "make believe" challenges and accomplishments.

[Senkoau]

What was wrong is entirely subjective. For players who truly only want to walk around and watch cutscenes, there was nothing wrong. There are many players who enjoy that type of game and it is the reason that Telltale is in business. It was not, however, what BW intended for this game to be.

 

As for raiding, it is still the best option for challenging PvE content. But I'm not always raiding and I have no particular desire to do solo content that is faceroll easy. Not to mention there is no new PvE or PvP content at end game, only new solo content. I would be fine with a little buff back to healing companions after seeing the changes, but going back to god mode isn't the solution either.

 

The thing is you have people like me just started playing recently, don't have gear/buffs/legacy/experience and I was learning slowly as I leveled up, still only on Alderaan. WIth the companions as they were before you know what happened on several of the heroics? I died not always but there were several where the companion went down and others where both of us went down and I slowly learnt from it changing abilities, rotation, gear etc. Now since the nerf I've abandoned several heroics and just walked away. I learnt nothing, I enjoyed nothing, I gained nothing because I'm not an end game player who know's the right build/rotation to use for the class and have a bunch of legacy unlocks giving me boosts which meant when I tried doing them I just died too fast to even gain anything out of the experience.

 

The reduction of BASE stats on companions is most harmful to people like me who have just started playing because we have nothing to offset it. Before I had a challenge on the harder heroics and still died if I got overconfident or had some bad luck now its not FUN. I don't care that yes I can still do some of these things because there's a difference between can do and enjoy doing and for me I don't enjoy dying repeteadly because the area is swarming with gold mobs I can't avoid agroing because they're all so close together.

 

You find the content easy to faceroll well good for you obviously you've a lot more skill and experience than I do but when you balance the early content around players like you and then tell me to "Learn to play" well where am I meant to do that? I don't have the gear/skill/buffs to handle the content I should be using to learn how to handle my character so I just walk away and when I'm walking away from game content because its not fun I have no reason to play that game.

 

Right now the content veers from too easy to learn anything because the mobs die in second to too hard to learn anything because I die in seconds whereas before I could do the harder heroics and last long enough to figure out where I was going wrong.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Senkoau

[BloodyHarry]

I also think that the nerf of our companions was one of the worst moves they could have done. Indead, they were strong, maybe a bit too strong, but it was so much fun! Therefor i agree with anyone above.

 

But one point was not mentioned, 4.0 and the new companions opened (at least for me) a lot of different leveling und skill options! You are not bind to one pecular skill tree to have no downtime and could to almost anything with your charatcters. Bevor that my leveling was usally based around a healer comp and my char. With 4.0 i was able to play my "mad scientiest / doctor" imperial agent (medicine) and that was such a blast to play! or tank toons with really effectiv dd-companions and that even in all of the H2-Missions. Fast and usally without downtine. Maybe not the most challenging ive done in the last month, but one of the most fun!

 

Now it is again one big struggle. As mentioned above, the H2 are not anywhere endgame stuff and are usally done "in between" other things and should be made as enjoyable as possible ... especially if you look at their repeatable character.

 

I really don*t get it. The companions where really fine, they needed fine tuning, but i had a lot of tun with them. I think i never had so much fun with them since ... never befor.

[Jedi_riches]

I can't explain why OP companions were bad, I was actually having fun with the game, more than I had in the last year with the game, I was able to do everything in the game (except op's, flashpoints and warzones) at my own pace with my comparative lack of level being made up by a companion.

 

But I was able to do everything and see everything I wanted without too much issue, I don't play for a challenge I play for a star wars story.

[CrutchCricket]

That's easy. Artificial challenges like dismissing your companion, using them in a weaker role, or turning off some of their abilities, isn't a real challenge. What makes an accomplishment 'fun' is that you needed to overcome it. If at any time, you can just fiddle with a few settings and win, that's no longer any fun.

 

Now does this make it harder for less skilled or committed players? Yes, no doubt. But then nothing prevents those players from getting better. That's the corollary to your argument that people could make things artificially higher. Likewise, people could play better. Which solution is best ultimately lies with the developers.

Handicap challenges, look them up. Nearly every game with an active scene has them, particularly multiplayer games.

 

Also difficulty sliders. According to you 90% of games aren't fun because I can just tweak a setting and have an easier time.

[JouerTue]

all i do out of HM/NiM OPS and PVP is:

 

catching level cap at patches and collecting stacks mats with some dailies around..

i don't care about companions..i soloed some Heroics levelling in the past but that's it.

kofte content was retarded easy. i just let the companion die, los'd a corner gathering all the stupid mobs left and aoe'd them down popping a cd.

 

but for sure i didn't asked for a nerf, since i could literally farm any resource node with the level 1 affection guy in dps stance killing all the mobs for me, even elites. i had just to swap him to heals while walking to the next pull or mount to have him heal to full.

i can imagine that doing H2 too fast could be a problem for the devs, because once you build your alliance to build your alliance what you do?

so maybe the nerf is good in the end. i doubt i will struggle doing my farming and i will never do any Heroic since i've done them at release..

[Mutiny]

I came back to the game for the story. That is the only reason I ever come back. The combat in this game is crap, always has been. Tacking on millions of HP to a mob doesn't make it fun, it just becomes tedious. If I want exciting combat, I will go back to Wildstar.

 

I was having alot of fun being able to use whatever companion. Now, its back to focusing on one to try and get the influence high enough.

 

People have said they didn't want a "face roll"...well, did it ever occur to them to just click off some of the companion abilities? Was that too much hassle? Instead lets come to the forums and complain about how companions are too OP.

 

Now...its all back to the tedious grind again.

 

Why did they have to nerf them so much? Where is the moderation? Either everyone that works there is bi polar or they are all on drugs, because this **** just isn't normal.

[teclado]

Answer: because it was misleading players regarding their performance in the game, meaning that if they ever decide to attempt something challenging, they would be in for a very rude awakening. It would be like training soldiers by feeding them doughnuts and having them take naps, just prior to sending them into combat. That's setting them up for failure.

 

Meanwhile, other soldiers were in a real bootcamp, training for war. At a later point in time, these two regiments are grouped up and the one regiment is grossly unprepared for the task, and they end up getting the prepared regiment killed.

 

If all that you ever want to do is play this game solo, of course it's no problem. BW has set in motion a game that is simultaneously a single player RPG and an MMO, but not quite either of those things. That is the root of the problem. In their attempt to appeal to everyone, they are starting to appeal to no-one.

[Jadescythe]

Answer: because it was misleading players regarding their performance in the game, meaning that if they ever decide to attempt something challenging, they would be in for a very rude awakening. It would be like training soldiers by feeding them doughnuts and having them take naps, just prior to sending them into combat. That's setting them up for failure.

 

Meanwhile, other soldiers were in a real bootcamp, training for war. At a later point in time, these two regiments are grouped up and the one regiment is grossly unprepared for the task, and they end up getting the prepared regiment killed.

 

If all that you ever want to do is play this game solo, of course it's no problem. BW has set in motion a game that is simultaneously a single player RPG and an MMO, but not quite either of those things. That is the root of the problem. In their attempt to appeal to everyone, they are starting to appeal to no-one.

 

This is an interesting perspective I hadn't necessarily considered. Thanks.

[SPAMBAM]

It was because they were too stupid to figure out how to dismiss or pacify their companion in order to get the "hard mode" back. It's that simple.

 

For anything that mattered in the game, companions were a non-issue. Organized PVP? Nope, they don't come up at all. Operations? No one with half a brain would choose a dumb companion that can't move out of stuff for an operation. Hard modes? Ditto.

 

But hey, now that lots of grindy solo stuff wasn't as intolerable as it used to be, ****, the game is becoming uber casual! Whaaaa! We're going to cry and whine like little babies because that guy over there isn't having to spend half an hour getting through a single instanced mission on Tattooine, and I'm too stupid to hit that second companion button to turn mine off so I can take a little longer doing stuff so I can feel ELEETZ! Whaaa!

 

It's pathetic all around.

 

 

This post sums the whole thing up for me, entirely.

 

 

I completely agree.

 

 

I fully believe that some players -who measure their 'self-worth' by their gaming avatars eliteness - have come out on these forums, kicked up a furore about companions and without any professional testing and with zero consulting, BW have jumped in (almost knee-jerk style) and altered the companions in such a drastic, game-changing, fun-killing, sub-threatening manner that right now the outcry on these very forums makes the 'elite whingers' look like a shallow cry from some far off and forgotten corner.

[Halinalle]

Answer: because it was misleading players regarding their performance in the game, meaning that if they ever decide to attempt something challenging, they would be in for a very rude awakening. It would be like training soldiers by feeding them doughnuts and having them take naps, just prior to sending them into combat. That's setting them up for failure.

 

Heroic SF

For some classes no changes. Maybe they have to use something like Kolto Overload few times but that's about it. For classes that can't kite easily it's a different story.

 

Planetary heroics aren't issue. They haven't been issue since 4.0.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Halinalle

[Jadescythe]

The thing is you have people like me just started playing recently, don't have gear/buffs/legacy/experience and I was learning slowly as I leveled up, still only on Alderaan. WIth the companions as they were before you know what happened on several of the heroics? I died not always but there were several where the companion went down and others where both of us went down and I slowly learnt from it changing abilities, rotation, gear etc. Now since the nerf I've abandoned several heroics and just walked away. I learnt nothing, I enjoyed nothing, I gained nothing because I'm not an end game player who know's the right build/rotation to use for the class and have a bunch of legacy unlocks giving me boosts which meant when I tried doing them I just died too fast to even gain anything out of the experience.

 

The reduction of BASE stats on companions is most harmful to people like me who have just started playing because we have nothing to offset it. Before I had a challenge on the harder heroics and still died if I got overconfident or had some bad luck now its not FUN. I don't care that yes I can still do some of these things because there's a difference between can do and enjoy doing and for me I don't enjoy dying repeteadly because the area is swarming with gold mobs I can't avoid agroing because they're all so close together.

 

You find the content easy to faceroll well good for you obviously you've a lot more skill and experience than I do but when you balance the early content around players like you and then tell me to "Learn to play" well where am I meant to do that? I don't have the gear/skill/buffs to handle the content I should be using to learn how to handle my character so I just walk away and when I'm walking away from game content because its not fun I have no reason to play that game.

 

Right now the content veers from too easy to learn anything because the mobs die in second to too hard to learn anything because I die in seconds whereas before I could do the harder heroics and last long enough to figure out where I was going wrong.

 

What if I told you that almost no one could solo heroics after the starter planet before KotFE? They were actually an easy introduction to group content without the mechanics and time required for flashpoints. I'm glad that you used them to learn and try to improve and I'm sure you can continue to do so, but they are optional. For a brand new player working their way through the game, these may not be the best option for leveling up.

 

It's difficult to balance content both for players to level through and for end game content grinds. Heroics are in a weird place right now while they try and capture both audiences.

[Pirindolo]

Answer: because it was misleading players regarding their performance in the game, meaning that if they ever decide to attempt something challenging, they would be in for a very rude awakening. It would be like training soldiers by feeding them doughnuts and having them take naps, just prior to sending them into combat. That's setting them up for failure.

 

Meanwhile, other soldiers were in a real bootcamp, training for war. At a later point in time, these two regiments are grouped up and the one regiment is grossly unprepared for the task, and they end up getting the prepared regiment killed.

 

If all that you ever want to do is play this game solo, of course it's no problem. BW has set in motion a game that is simultaneously a single player RPG and an MMO, but not quite either of those things. That is the root of the problem. In their attempt to appeal to everyone, they are starting to appeal to no-one.

 

So basically you are saying that all the players ares soldiers of the same army and therefore must bne equally trained and do the same things.... Just a little flaw: this is a game, not a war.

[Daezihang]

The very fact that they are overpowered is an issue.

 

It was beyond casual, the game has turned into a walking simulator. If there isn't even the tiniest bit of challenge, why are you playing a game? Really.

 

Have any of you ever stopped to consider the tremendous liability you lot are going to be in end-game stuff, or any kind of group content? Yea, because you never encounter any kind of situation where you have to think and actually use your class-- you never learn how to play it. What is there exactly to learn when all you do is smack '1' and watch your companion do all the work?

 

You are the ones entirely missing the point and intent of this game, so you are the ones with the issue.

 

Hopefully BioWare don't want to become a complete laughing stock, by having a game that's even easier than WoW. Hopefully they have the integrity to keep it as it is, and not nerf the game utterly down to the floor to appease the very, very worst players.

 

I have done some of these so-called 'impossible' HCs-- they are very easy indeed. As A very average geared 210 ish Marauder.

 

The only thing now is probably HC SFs are going to be tough, and you'll need to group up-- as you should. Oh, and that quote from Eric was obviously about daily HCs, not the HC SFs. SFs have a SOLO mode, do that as it is the SOLO version. Daily HCs are easy, and if you're dying in those you must be so astonishingly bad.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Daezihang

[Lalainnia]

Pretty sure the main reason comps were nerfed is that ppl were getting kicked from flashpoints in place of a companion which is pretty funny but honestly comps could single target heal better then some full geared bis players simply because of the 3 second channel heal that had no cd think my elara was healing for 6k tick crits at like 34 influence they also have no resource management it was bad for flashpoints that's literally the reason they were nerfed.

 

The sad part is in typical bioware fashion they don't use a bat to nerf they use an atomic bomb lv 50 influence comps are weaker then 3.0 yavin legacy comp gear or raid geared comps. for me that just shows they honesty don't do that "internal testing" nonsense before pushing things to live servers.

[Pirindolo]

Daily HCs are easy, and if you're dying in those you must be so astonishingly bad.

 

And? bad players don't have the right to play this game?

 

Another childish elitist has spoken.