Companion Changes in 4.0.2

[TUXs]

This is why I'm confused.

 

They had to be making money with all the people coming back. Not WoW-like numbers, but more income than they've seen in awhile. Why would you jeopardize that?

 

Obviously players were happy and I can't blame it on the elitist vocal minority because we all know Bioware doesn't listen to its player base either pro or con. If they did they'd have responded to the few thousand posts from players voicing their displeasure at this latest debacle of a patch. These voices are drowning out the elitists for a change and still nothing is being said or done except to start sweeping posts into the Off-Topic section of the forums. Damage control has begun.

 

This means some moron up the line decided to nuke companions from orbit without testing them out first. Then of course what followed was yesterdays complete and utter faceplant by Bioware. How much money they've lost we'll never know, but you know its going to be felt in their wallet at the end of the quarter.

 

Here's a hint Bioware. This one ain't gonna blow over...

The ONLY thing I've read that made any sense to me was in another thread (or this one, who knows)...

 

Players were burning through 4.0 content and companions far faster than Bioware could have imagined and this nerf by them was to slow down how fast many have been grinding.

 

I don't believe it, nut it's the only logical reason I can think of...because I'm with you...4.0 had been amazingly well received imo.

[Draqsko]

This has me bewildered as well. I haven't seen the servers this hopping since launch....not sure why you'd shoot your cash cow in the face like this.

 

Treek is again the healer to rule them all.

 

Just go compare a rank 1 Treek to any other companion.

[GloomyBoy]

I can honestly say I am very dissapointed about this change and about you (people that made this change) not listening to what community wants.

Anyhow, thank you for the short amount of fun we had.

Bye

[Dragonflies]

At influence 32 Lana is a worse healer then any of the pre 4.0 healers. While I agree a nerf was needed I think you all went a bit heavy handed. You have stated your companion would be the second in a 2+ planetary and well.. its not working out that way. Mobs I was killing easily in pre 4.0 with a healer are killing me. I am in 216 and 220 gear, I am all for a challenge but this was a bit over done.

[Degan]

Players were burning through 4.0 content and companions far faster than Bioware could have imagined ...

 

Yeah, but the thing is that this has been the case since this game launched. If they have not been able to increase their imagination by now, there indeed is no hope for this bunch of developers.

 

As for me, I just cancelled my sub. If they get the comps fixed before it runs out, I will continue it. If not, I will find a new game. I was having fun with 4.0 until now.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Degan

[TUXs]

Yeah, but the thing is that this has been the case since this game launched. If they have not been able to increase their imagination by now, there indeed is no hope for this bunch of developers.

 

As for me, I just cancelled my sub. If they get the comps fixed before it runs out, I will continue it. If not, I will find a new game. I was having fun with 4.0 until now.

Oh I completely agree.

 

I'm sorry to see you go, but that's the only thing Bioware will respond to...all the feedback here is worthless unless it impacts their income.

[HarleysRule]

They *really* upped leveling speed in 4.0. Content in 4.0 was easier than ever, *and* God mode companions made it even faster. Even if people aren't exaggerating the nerf, they could leave the difficulty as is, and you're still leveling faster than before 4.0.

[Xyeth]

This is a really bad change. It's bad enough that it is a HUGE grind getting any alliance ranks and companion influence but to slow it down anymore is terrible. I'm to the point that I can't imagine having to do this exact same grind on my other 7 characters. I'm likely to only do the story on the rest and skip all of the other stuff. I've been working only on my main character and I'm starting to become very discouraged with the mountain I'm being required to climb to gain levels with the alliance and companions.

 

After leveling Lana to 27, I can't imagine doing this on any other character.

 

Please reverse the changes. The grind is sickening.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Xyeth

[LordArtemis]

Ghisallo made a logical point (if you dont mind me mentioning your name)....again, just like the CSM, had they released the companions in their current strength from the get go it is likely there would far less complaining going on. The focus would likely be on level sync instead, as that is the real problem here.

 

For all purposes a progression mechanic common to MMOs was removed from the game, which is a HUGE change. It is not a surprise they didn't do it right, and this is the result.

 

The handled both of the changes badly IMO. This is what should have happened from my perspective.

 

1) They would have set companions at a reasonable strength as they generally are now, reworking them if necessary to boost individual companion strength where needed (some of them perform poorly in certain roles).

 

2) They would have then instituted level sync, tested it with the proper strength companions, and likely found it was too difficult in a few places/situation. They would have then further adjusted level sync by perhaps adding an extra level push to the system, which would likely compensate.

 

3) They would have given presence a HUGE effect at low levels, reduced effect as you level, however influence would have been the opposite. This way presence would have helped lower level players, influence higher level players.

 

 

Right now these are the problems I see that should be corrected.

1) Level sync does not boost players high enough, especially in daily areas and H2+ content.

2) Companions are now a bit underpowered more often then they should be, especially in old content.

3) Companions still underperform in certain situations and roles.

 

So I think they need to do the following.....

1) Adjust level sync to give players higher strength in lower level content and H2+. One level higher might do the trick.

 

2) Adjust Influence effect to a much higher amount, perhaps 10 percent higher, but leave presence alone, or slightly increase companion base stats by around 2-5 percent.

 

3) Pick a standard piece of old content (perhaps EoT in Black Hole), take every companion, role and character combination and do a test to see if they get consistent numbers across the board. Then make adjustments accordingly, either to heroics overall or certain companions.

 

4) Build reaction tables to EVERY SINGLE ORIGINAL COMPANION in the game for flashpoints.

 

If they did this, IMO, lower level characters with low influence would get a small break if they can get presence (or use presence buffs)....higher level characters can get a break by grinding out influence, the experience would be more balanced while still providing challenge if desired, and the entire experience with both systems would be more consistent.

Edited November 18, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Pavijan]

Exactly. The game felt vibrant like it never had before, I got a sense of community I hadn't felt last year. It really felt like people were having fun, and obviously, the companions had a lot to do with that.

 

Game was vibrant because of good story, level sync and lots of good changes in a qualitatively marketed and hyped expansion. Overpowered companions had nothing with that. New players knew nothing about that and those doing only story won't even know that something's changed now.

Of those that are leaving now most are leaving because they have burned through content and have nothing else to do and most of them will return when the story continues forward.

[Chernyo]

Players were burning through 4.0 content and companions far faster than Bioware could have imagined and this nerf by them was to slow down how fast many have been grinding.

 

I don't believe it, nut it's the only logical reason I can think of...because I'm with you...4.0 had been amazingly well received imo.

 

worth mentioning It is neither first nor last time it happens in an MMO. Same as server malfunctioning on patching day

 

It may take many hours to make a pie, but only several minutes to eat it. That's how devs feel about content devouring. It is quite normal to nerf...

[Kurou_Daijuuji]

They *really* upped leveling speed in 4.0. Content in 4.0 was easier than ever, *and* God mode companions made it even faster. Even if people aren't exaggerating the nerf, they could leave the difficulty as is, and you're still leveling faster than before 4.0.

 

Part of it is because people were actually doing heroics, since you didn't need to sit and wait for hours (or days) for someone to join a group to do it. They're worth a decent chunk of XP - just the first few planets heroics are worth about five levels of it.

 

I know this because I've had a character that hasn't done any heroics at all, and he's exactly five levels behind where my other character was at the same point.

[Degan]

Oh I completely agree.

 

I'm sorry to see you go, but that's the only thing Bioware will respond to...all the feedback here is worthless unless it impacts their income.

 

You are 100% correct Tux.

It is a sad state when one can only use the Unsub button to be heard.

Also, for the record, I'm not saying the comps didn't need to be adjusted. This one extreme to the other with this group clearly shows they have no idea how to handle these issues and would be better served with more competent leadership.

 

I guess the best we can hope for is that enough people unsub or at the very least stop logging in until they find some middle ground in all this.

[Altus_Esterhazy]

Game was vibrant because of good story, level sync and lots of good changes in a qualitatively marketed and hyped expansion. Overpowered companions had nothing with that. New players knew nothing about that and those doing only story won't even know that something's changed now.

Of those that are leaving now most are leaving because they have burned through content and have nothing else to do and most of them will return when the story continues forward.

 

Well, for me at least, the overpowered companions were one of the main reasons I re-subscribed.

[Moonwind]

I for one am neither for or against this Nerf. Fact is when they did it, they went too far and now companions are worthless. 1/3rd was all that was necessary. The reward fo a 50 influence companion is worthless as it is now. I play this game casually. Before this update it's grind was comfortable for all, casual and hardcore alike. Now it feels like every other grind in every other mmo...long , tedious, and boring. I came back for 4.0 and was pleasantly surprised by the companions. I had a reason to want to get their influence up. That motivation has been lost with he last patch. And I tried it in all types of play. The thing was there wasn't a feeling of want to level them. What they were able to do just felt far harder then what they could do in 3.0.

[HarleysRule]

I haven't tried 4.0.2 and likely won't, so I'll take peoples' word that this is an over nerf, but I refuse to accept some sort of nerf wasn't needed. Hopefully, they find an acceptable balance before too long.

 

Part of it is because people were actually doing heroics, since you didn't need to sit and wait for hours (or days) for someone to join a group to do it. They're worth a decent chunk of XP - just the first few planets heroics are worth about five levels of it.

 

I know this because I've had a character that hasn't done any heroics at all, and he's exactly five levels behind where my other character was at the same point.

 

Eh maybe for later planets. I always soloed H2s on the first few planets and skipped H4s that I couldn't find a group for before I left, and I was always able to solo the 2nd H4 on Coruscant by using heroic moment on the boss. One reason I was higher level leaving Coruscant/DK post 4.0 than before was now I can't out level the content. Last Rep character I started I was half way to 26 leaving Coruscant, and that was doing no FPs, space content, or PvP. Before 4.0 I'd be 20-21 leaving Coruscant, and I always did Esseles twice.

Edited November 18, 2015 by HarleysRule

[Blurch]

Dear Eric and other folks at Bioware,

 

My feedback is that I am extremely disappointed by the companion nerfs. Some points:

 

- I can still do the H2's I have attempted so far (haven't tried the "hard" ones though). They are not what I would call difficult; they just take longer. Being able to tear through mobs quickly made the Alliance box-gathering grind okay, but now it is just tedious.

 

- I feel (<-- keyword) somewhat cheated because I had spent a ton of time/resources to get my favorite companion on my main up to rank 47. It was worth it to me because he was awesome in combat and obviously a lot better than the low rank companions I didn't like enough to use. Now? There is a difference, yes, but really he is just a bit less pathetic than the others. >.<

 

- Pre-4.0, I used Andronikos on my squishy DPS because he was my favorite. I was delighted to be able to switch him to a different role in 4.0. Now with the nerfs, I find myself putting him in DPS stance again because it seems to be the least useless. The ability to use any role isn't all that great when healing has been nerfed into oblivion and tanks are still made of tissue but don't have enough to make up for it.

 

- I think this issue was handled extremely poorly. Within a week of 4.0, it was obvious that companions were strong. Heck, it was obvious within 20 minutes of gameplay. Taking nearly a month to say that there was a problem was way too long. And I find it hard to believe that you messed up so badly with companion strength that you had to nerf them so badly. Were companions not tested at all?

 

My somewhat cynical belief is that you guys nerfed companions so hard because players were doing things too quickly, and you don't want us to run out of things to do before chapter 10 comes out in January. Regardless, I hope to see an in-depth post discussing this issue more.

 

Sincerely,

a very unhappy customer

 

This is what I wanted to do out side of SWTOR. I wanted management of EA/Bioware that are outside of the gaming loop to show them what is happening to their product. Before I started the calling I went to there sight and said go to help.ea.contact pick then game and fill out the webpage and it would go to whom ever. Well I was getting error 404 page doesn't exist so I started calling finding out that SWTOR cant be done that way and you have to rely on this form that the only people that see it are the players. That is the reason why I was calling no one wanted to help and just kept saying not my problem call here. They say not my problem for SWTOR but we will look into the web sight issue. so after 4 hours of getting the run around i went here and gave the phone numbers so other people can call and get some action done either by the number of calls that the management would look into what the problem is, or they actually set up a sight that will work. But it turns out that EA/Bioware don't care and will never care till it hurts there wallets. So for those people who think I'm picking on CS I'm not deliberately its there's none one else to since EA/Bioware don't give us any other option.

[Master_Renshi]

Just killed my first Paladin with my Sith Assassin in a mix of 216/208 gear. NOT FUN AT ALL now .. my level 15 AKK Dog did nothing but sat the spamming just over 1000 pts heals. On trash he spent most the time standing there healing himself.

 

PreNerf the game "Felt" Starwars like .. now its not worth the time of day.

 

Please UNNERF the Companions; honestly the game was just getting fun again running through heroics and doing Star Fortresses.

 

Also you didn't fix the:

 

WILL BIND to you in XX hours on the decorations that drop.

OR

Companion LOSING BUFFS every 2 seconds.

 

ONE MORE BUG .. Heroic Moment with 8 Classes Plus Boxes for SF plus Shield = MAXED out bar when you pick up

the SIPHON ENERGY item you cant see it and have to open your inventory and go to mission tab to click it.

 

Also wondering did you nerf player damage because it sure seems like I'm doing a lot less damage and taking a lot more damage overall?? Before on trash I could set my companion on DPS and tank a group of mobs and barley move my health bar. Now .. holy crap there is no way I'm doing that without my companion set in healing mode. It feels and acts like I'm in DPS gear trying to tank. That amount of damage incoming without the DPS of wearing DPS gear.

 

Last set of adds before boss in SF Heroic .. Not solo'able anymore imho. To much damage incoming even with CD's to keep up with adds. Good Job BW we went from having a good time to saying **** it. Fix it or your going to have a **** toon of people unsubing to include myself.

 

All that patching and you did not fix stuff that needs fixing.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Master_Renshi

[Blurch]

You are 100% correct Tux.

It is a sad state when one can only use the Unsub button to be heard.

Also, for the record, I'm not saying the comps didn't need to be adjusted. This one extreme to the other with this group clearly shows they have no idea how to handle these issues and would be better served with more competent leadership.

 

I guess the best we can hope for is that enough people unsub or at the very least stop logging in until they find some middle ground in all this.

 

They don't care if people don't log in since there still getting paid if there a subscriber. Need to unsubscribe to get there heads out of the butts and look what is happening.

[ekwalizer]

 

Will your Companions feel a bit weaker than they did when KotFE launched? Yes. But believe me they will still carry their weight and fill the role you need them to in combat. All that we ask is that you log in tomorrow, and check the changes yourself. Play around with the Companions in each role and let us know your feedback. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

How can you possibly make this claim? You clearly do not play the game. Based on the strength of the companions prior to this patch, I cannot honestly believe that any of you genuinely play the game. If any of you played the game you would have known well before launch that companions were too strong; given that you had access to KotFE prior to release. Furthermore, a proper beta would have identified this on like day 1 or day 2 of a beta session.

 

It never should have went live the way it did.

[SamAnders]

How can you possibly make this claim? You clearly do not play the game. Based on the strength of the companions prior to this patch, I cannot honestly believe that any of you genuinely play the game. If any of you played the game you would have known well before launch that companions were too strong; given that you had access to KotFE prior to release. Furthermore, a proper beta would have identified this on like day 1 or day 2 of a beta session.

 

It never should have went live the way it did.

 

I don't think they tested this new patch at all either.

[Lord_Sleepy]

They don't care if people don't log in since there still getting paid if there a subscriber. Need to unsubscribe to get there heads out of the butts and look what is happening.

 

Of course they care if you log in or not, the more people who log in the higher the server load, the higher the bandwidth cost, so if they can keep you hopeful enough to stay subscribed, but nerf the fun enough to keep you from logging in, it is win/win for them

[Blurch]

I don't think they tested this new patch at all either.

 

Agreed where at about 1,170 messages about nerf excluding the 1once being band for off topic. and 90% are going ***., and still no answer from EA/Bioware.

[Hunterr]

While I'm not finding any of the content too difficult with these changes, I do think they still went overboard. If they were originally designed to scale with us as we level then they should be on par with what our skills can put out damage/threat/heals wise at our current level. Then any influence levels or presence on top of that should be a bonus. Right now they do not. At 65 it feels like my comp is doing the outputs of a level 40-50. This was using a Scorpio at 50 influence as well.

 

I mean really whats the point of adding 50 influence levels to try to grind out, if they are gonna be worse than a well geared comp was pre 4.0? All that incentive to get a stronger companion is now gone.

 

So please at least boost the companions back up a few notches, not super op like they were before but enough to were I can feel that putting in all that effort to get them to 50 is actually worth something.

[Severitus]

Will your Companions feel a bit weaker than they did when KotFE launched? Yes. But believe me they will still carry their weight and fill the role you need them to in combat. All that we ask is that you log in tomorrow, and check the changes yourself. Play around with the Companions in each role and let us know your feedback. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

No, they are not carrying their weight. I can't speak for tank comps, but healing and DPS comps are NOT. I even have Lana up to lvl 44 and set her as heals. She can't even keep herself up, much less my character.