These 4 threads all ask the same questions,can we get answers?

[Master-Nala]

It's illogical to create pvp gated companions.

 

Only if one doesn't understand logic.

 

Let's apply logical reasoning to your statement. Your statement is that it is illogical to create PvP gated companions. Put into the form of a proposition it is:

 

PvP cannot gate companions.

 

Well, since it actually does, that fails immediately. Logic demands that such a statement is false. And that's the closest analogue to your statement. But assuming you weren't being that literal let's change it a bit to:

 

PvP should not gate companions.

 

Well, that's an opinion and no set of facts can prove or disprove that. My opinion is no more valid than yours and vice versa. So logic cannot be applied to this. I would note, as you see below that the 'fact' that you use to support your statement is actually false since you can and I have used companions in PvP this week.

 

You don't use companions in pvp.

 

False (see Gree event, PvP server Open world, Rakghoul tunnels, etc.), and irrelevant besides. You don't use decorations anywhere except in strongholds but they are given as rewards. You don't use companions and mounts in Operations but both are rewards for Operations.

 

And again, you can't currently skip them without losing access to additional companions. If Bioware makes it so you can actually skip them, half the problem would go away.

 

I agree with that.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Master-Nala

[Djed]

My issue is, I have all advanced classes, 16 characters. This system is not very friendly to altoholics like me. It will be a hot day on Hoth and cold day on Tatooine when I gather all companions on all characters. Legacy companions... just throwing it out there.

[TUXs]

And then people come to the forums complaining people are just standing around in wz doing nothing. How does that help pvp?

It already has helped. We've got several replies in the PvP section from players who were like you at first, reluctant to PvP, some even said they HATED PvP...but by the end of their 20 matches, they were enjoying it quite a bit.

 

I'm not saying everyone will enjoy it...believe it or not, after the first few times I PvP'd (in another MMO), I went almost 2-years before trying it again...I hated it that much. I understand the frustration and hate people can have for PvP and it's not a play style you can "force" someone to enjoy...but I do like that Bioware is making the incentive to try PvP great enough that people are trying it. Like it or not at the end...at least you tried it! Exposure can be powerful.

[Master-Nala]

My issue is, I have all advanced classes, 16 characters. This system is not very friendly to altoholics like me. It will be a hot day on Hoth and cold day on Tatooine when I gather all companions on all characters. Legacy companions... just throwing it out there.

 

I have 29 characters. All 16 ACs like you, every spec of Consular, Inquisitor and a few other multiples besides. I don't and never did have any intention of taking all my characters through even the story much less building an Alliance. There's nothing wrong with that. I have characters that have never done SOR but are still level 60.

[Psychopyro]

Hmmm...happen to have a link to your statement? PvP has been a very popular part of this game since launch.

• Nearly 50% PvP

• 31% of everything killed is another PLAYER

I've supported my belief...please support yours.

First off, that top post is from 2 weeks after the release of the game. That number is way WAY skewed. Release numbers always are. That be like saying this game has over 1m subscribers because a post on December 26th 2011 says so...

 

As for the second one, you can't glean any numbers off that chart. I did the math with 20k PvPers that figures out to 81 deaths per day per each one... That would be average. We already know that the number of PvPers was higher in the beginning for people who PvP.

 

Yet that still leaves at the top end 69% of players who did not do everything.

 

PvP only players are leaving, much like many raiders have. Neglect does that. What we have left are mostly people who diversify their play.

No, what we have left is a small and declining PvP base.

https://torcommunity.com/database/arena-stats

 

20k solo ranked PvPers, 6.6k Group Ranked PvPers. We also don't know how many of them are duplicates (i.e. unique players). Assuming an average, I'd guess at least a majority play at least 2 characters in ranked (I actually had 4), you'd be looking at a base of true PvP players at around 15k or so, and that is being generous. I would not consider most of the people that play unranked to be serious PvPers. Most people that I know that do it, do so only to finish the weekly to get their CP and are done with it. Shoot I know people that have tons of comms who refuse to buy PvP gear cause they only do it to advance CP.

 

Look, the fact that BW is trying to get PvE players to PvP should be a sign that there is something wrong. They have admitted several times that they want more people to PvP. The problem is, it's not attractive. Until they make it so, the numbers will still continue to decline.

[TUXs]

I have a severe anxiety disorder and PVP sets it off. It's not even a matter of not enjoying it -- I didn't enjoy Qyzen's mission either but at least it was relatively easy to do -- it's a matter of having to do something that literally makes me miserable for hours, possibly the whole day (idk about you but I don't particularly like being terrified for hours cause I'm unlucky enough to have some seriously malfunctioning alarm bells). I decided that I just wouldn't do them because hey, I dislike Pierce anyway and none of my PCs (that I plan to take through KotFE) are interested in aggravating the imp-pub conflict anyway. But if they gate the acquisition of companions I do care about, maybe even old crew members behind getting Pierce or Forex? That neither makes my illness go away nor motivates me into playing the game more. The least they could do is give an option to reject them right when you first talk to them -- or any of the other recruits. That way people can move on with the quest chain and it facilitates role playing as well.

 

Ideally we could just choose between a solo pve, a group pve and a pvp way to recruit everyone, but failing that we should at least have enough control over our story to say "screw you" to any potential companion we don't want or don't like quest for.

Here's an idea...

 

SKIP HIM!

 

If you honestly have those issues, skip him. You've got no reason to go get him other than "want"...you aren't entitled to **** just because you're anxiety ridden...so SKIP HIM...or...face your fears and see what happens.

[TUXs]

First off, that top post is from 2 weeks after the release of the game. That number is way WAY skewed.

Then present your own link. I gave you what we've been told. Post something official that contradicts that.

[Master-Nala]

It already has helped. We've got several replies in the PvP section from players who were like you at first, reluctant to PvP, some even said they HATED PvP...but by the end of their 20 matches, they were enjoying it quite a bit.

 

I'm not saying everyone will enjoy it...believe it or not, after the first few times I PvP'd (in another MMO), I went almost 2-years before trying it again...I hated it that much. I understand the frustration and hate people can have for PvP and it's not a play style you can "force" someone to enjoy...but I do like that Bioware is making the incentive to try PvP great enough that people are trying it. Like it or not at the end...at least you tried it! Exposure can be powerful.

 

Exactly. And the thing is folks, if you go in with an open mind and a limited ego, it's really not that bad. Sure you're going to get wrecked A LOT in PvP, that's par for the course. There's a lot less margin for error. And yes, there will be jerks.

 

But try this and I think it won't be so bad:

 

1) Anyone who is nasty, ignore them immediately. No matter how 'leet' of a PvPer they think they are, if you have to insult people, they are bad and should feel bad.

 

2) Contrast that with people giving polite (but perhaps terse) instructions. Listen sometimes, most times people giving instructions, even if they are wrong have some idea of what's going on.

 

3) DO NOT STRESS BEING KILLED. This is the big one. Look in PvP, you get defeated a lot. It's just part of the game. It's nothing to worry about. It's not like PvE where there's a big consequence to it. Here it's expected. It's not always a reflection on your skills as a player either. Sometimes you're facing overwhelming odds and are going to be killed over and over.

 

Don't get mad.

 

Think of it like this. Do you get super stressed out when you play checkers or cards or Mario Kart or anything else when you compete with people? If you do, then perhaps you have other issues going on.

[Psychopyro]

• 31% of everything killed is another PLAYER

I've supported my belief...please support yours.

 

I actually want to point out a couple more things for you that may not bode well at all in your math and just how flawed that graphic is.

 

4b NPC kills across 57m characters = 70.2 NPC kills per character.... Pretty sure even the most ardent PvPers have killed more then 70 NPCs....

 

On the other side of that, PvP deaths figure out to 31.4 player deaths per character created. I know for damn sure I've died more then 31 times on every single one of my characters (and I have almost 50 now across all the servers)...

[TUXs]

Exactly. And the thing is folks, if you go in with an open mind and a limited ego, it's really not that bad. Sure you're going to get wrecked A LOT in PvP, that's par for the course. There's a lot less margin for error. And yes, there will be jerks.

EXACTLY!

 

And wanna something? I've been PvPing since beta on my Commando...I still get wrecked EVERY WZ! Even people who have been playing for a long time get wrecked...we all do...that's the difference between PvP and PvE...in PvE, everyone can win...in PvP, half the players have to lose. Expect it - don't get frustrated by it...it's not an Ops boss you can adjust to, these are people you need to adapt to.

[Loranae]

I understand your frustration...

 

The effort you're giving though...THANK YOU!!!! You may be dying over and over, but I truly appreciate the fact that you continue to TRY.

 

Truthfully...20 matches is a bit high. That's more than the freaking weekly. 2 daily missions (8) would have been sufficient...20 total for an account unlock would have been fair too.

 

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time...it really does get better the more you learn about it

 

and i was shy to say that i have to do this 32 times as i have 16 characters .... well 28 times i just realised 4 or them are sage and shadow ...

 

ahhh guys when you will see some Elenath Legacy, diing over and over that will be me hahaha, i will always try my best but i am without no doubt the worst at pvp

Edited November 12, 2015 by Loranae

[Tfranco]

So... if I understand this part correctly, even though I have chosen to not get M1-4X and Pierce because I detest PvP with a deep and abiding passion, that to access future companions, I might be forced to unlock the previous PvP-wall companions after all. In essence, requiring me to inflict myself on warzones and avid PvPers, where I do not want to be and where I won't have a clue what I am doing, and won't have any fun doing it, and making it horrible for everyone else that is there.

 

Or again choose to accept being gated from accessing all the companions I might wish to have.

 

Great. Just great.

 

Chapters 1-9 were awesome. Best time I ever had in this game. Ever. Alliance and recruiting companions -- not so much. Keep adding barriers like this and it gets a lot more not so much.

 

I think you misunderstand what he is saying. He is saying there may be future companions that require pvp. If that is the case, you have to get pierce/m14x first. In which case, if the companion means enough to you, you will have to jump into pvp.

 

There is nothing wrong with this, if YOU choose to not pvp that is YOUR problem. The fact that bioware is throwing pvpers a bone by having a few companions require pvp makes me happy as a pvper. If you want the companion enough, suck it up and que for some wzs, do the basic bear minimum (there are like 8 threads explaining the bear minimum, to do as little pvp as possible while not gimping your team) and go on with your life. Its not the end of the world.

[TUXs]

I actually want to point out a couple more things for you that may not bode well at all in your math and just how flawed that graphic is.

 

4b NPC kills across 57m characters = 70.2 NPC kills per character.... Pretty sure even the most ardent PvPers have killed more then 70 NPCs....

 

On the other side of that, PvP deaths figure out to 31.4 player deaths per character created. I know for damn sure I've died more then 31 times on every single one of my characters (and I have almost 50 now across all the servers)...

Yeah, isn't that cool?! 70.2 NPCs, which can be done on the starter planet before reaching level 5...and 31.4 PvP deaths...it takes a helluva lot to die 31.4 times, yet we can pound down 70.2 NPCs in a couple minutes in any daily area.

[lanawinst]

The fact that bioware is throwing pvpers a bone by having a few companions require pvp makes me happy as a pvper.

 

I have trouble understanding people thinking like that: I am a pve only player who solo almost everything. Yet, Bioware throwing soloing pve players a bone by giving them something that require solo pve (a solo only flashpoint for example), would not make me happy, if I knew that it would make a lot of people unhappy. What would really make me happy would be giving everyone the option to do that flashpoint as they like: solo, tactical, hard,... Giving choices to player to play as they like is always the best. Why would you want to force everyone to play like you? That's very close-minded.

Edited November 12, 2015 by lanawinst

[Kyrrant]

I think it'd be a good idea to have faster Refuse states for some of them.

 

For instance, the M1-4X/Pierce and Qyzen recruitments.

 

For the former, he player is trying to forge an alliance between the Empire and the Republic. They're trying to stop the squabbling that's preventing the two sides from coming together against the foe that can wipe them both out in a heartbeat.

 

Being told "I'll help you, but only if you go kick some Imperial/Republic asterisk!" and being locked out of going after future companions unless you do it? That's... nonsensical, especially if your char really is dedicated to peace between the Republic and the Empire. I wager that most that have played the Trooper story would gladly jump through a few hoops to get 4X on their side, but make it a decision on the player and the character's part.

 

Qyzen has a similar problem: I've blown up Star Fortresses, dueled the leader of the Zakuul Empire to a near draw (before V distracted my char, that's my story and I'm sticking to it damn you!) and that doesn't even count the things BEFORE my char got frozen. Qyzen should look at me and go "Dude, I didn't even know the score went that high!", but instead... he tells me to go kill nonsentient beasts.

 

It's the same deal: Why should I jump through these hoops to tell him to piss off? If I don't do the quest, I shouldn't get the rewards, and maybe there should be a punishment in influence somewhere or something.

 

For stuff like Xalex, where you have to jump through hoops just to find the guy? Having to jump through some hoops works because the hoops aren't crazy long, it introduces us to the char and gives us a good dilemma (recruit the powerful Sith, or reject the potentially loose cannon).

 

Just give us the option to flip the bird and move on before any tedious and puzzling grinding happens.

[AlrikFassbauer]

We are open to the possibility of future PvP related Companions/Mission content which could require the completion of M1-4X/Pierce's Missions. That said, we would not likely have PvE related content require it.

 

In fact, this isn't balanced at all.

 

PvE players are required to do PvP in order to get Companions -

 

but PvP players are NOT required to do PvE in order to get Companions ???

 

This is not balanced at all.

 

The answer to an balanced approach should be this, then :

 

"I appreciate the team trying to expose PvP players to PvE." (Original by TUX.)

Edited November 12, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[Psychopyro]

Then present your own link. I gave you what we've been told. Post something official that contradicts that.

http://www.swtornetwork.com/news/interview-with-bioware-stats-and-game-design-decisions/

 

When 2.4 launched it was announced that the F2P warzone restriction would be removed, but this never happened because the stats showed that only 1.4% of F2P players that participate in Warzones hit the weekly limit, therefore queues wouldn’t be improved.

That seems like a really small number given PvP metrics and the f2p base... The sub base is probably higher, it is probably not much higher. If people were only subbing for PvP, they'd just buy a PvP pass and be done with it. But just to keep going

 

We know from the one podcast that only 2.4% of the "PvP population" (whatever the hell that means) had DR gear. Yet there were more people participating in the previous ranked season (5) then the current (6), I linked that earlier.

 

They have also admitted several times since launch that the PvP base seriously declined. So your 50% number from 2 weeks after launch would be taking a serious hit.

[Psychopyro]

Yeah, isn't that cool?! 70.2 NPCs, which can be done on the starter planet before reaching level 5...and 31.4 PvP deaths...it takes a helluva lot to die 31.4 times, yet we can pound down 70.2 NPCs in a couple minutes in any daily area.

 

At least 2 of my characters can do the PvP thing in a day.... It don't take much... My healers tend to be cannon fodder because, hey if you are the only healer and they all decide to hit you, you die (and I suck on my healer, hey I can admit it...)....

 

Which is why honestly not much stock can be put into their partial release metrics. Unless they release all of their numbers and what they mean, everyone is taking a shot in the dark. But if you take their numbers recently of over 1m unique players, and factor in what we know from that time (about 24k ranked players in PvP). That would be a pretty small number....

 

Now, if you take what they said literally, that 2.4% of PvP players (assuming that anyone who ever stepped foot in a PvP match was a PvPer) had full DR gear, then they'd be saying that all 1m players were PvP players, and we all know that is BS. That number is impossible.

 

The problem is, we don't know WHAT they call a PvP player.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Psychopyro

[freeoftime]

Here's an idea...

 

SKIP HIM!

 

If you honestly have those issues, skip him. You've got no reason to go get him other than "want"...you aren't entitled to **** just because you're anxiety ridden...so SKIP HIM...or...face your fears and see what happens.

 

Here's another idea: Actually read the posts you're replying topbeforce screaming "eNTITLEMENT!!!" because I want to skip Pierce, heck, not even my SW would want the guy back, but the game won't let me. I can't go to him, tell him "No, I'm not helping you with your bs", have the quest count as completed and move on with whatever Lana's next alert one day might be, because there is no rejection option.

 

And regardless what anyone thinks about the PVP requirement, not being able to reject companions we don't want either because we think the quest sucks or because our character thinks the companion or the quest suck, seems like spectacularly bad design to me, just like Skadge strongarming his way onto your ship or Quinn never facing any consequences for betraying the SW no matter what the player wanted to do with either.

 

So yeah, I'm all for being able to skip them but THERE'S NO OPTION TO REJECT THE QUEST AND MOVE ON.

[orangenkaiser]

Only if one doesn't understand logic.

 

Let's apply logical reasoning to your statement. Your statement is that it is illogical to create PvP gated companions. Put into the form of a proposition it is:

 

PvP cannot gate companions.

 

Well, since it actually does, that fails immediately. Logic demands that such a statement is false. And that's the closest analogue to your statement. But assuming you weren't being that literal let's change it a bit to:

 

PvP should not gate companions.

 

Well, that's an opinion and no set of facts can prove or disprove that. My opinion is no more valid than yours and vice versa. So logic cannot be applied to this. I would note, as you see below that the 'fact' that you use to support your statement is actually false since you can and I have used companions in PvP this week.

 

 

 

False (see Gree event, PvP server Open world, Rakghoul tunnels, etc.), and irrelevant besides. You don't use decorations anywhere except in strongholds but they are given as rewards. You don't use companions and mounts in Operations but both are rewards for Operations.

 

 

 

I agree with that.

 

That's a valiant attempt, I'll give you that. But off the mark.

 

Companions aren't used in Warzones or FFA PvP zones, like Outlaws Den and the Gree event. You only use companions when you're doing PvE content in PvE zones. Open world PvP servers are still using companions in PvE zones. Having companions doing PvP is a byproduct of having them in PvE zones/content.

 

None of the companions you originally get for your class are acquired through PvP.

 

SWTOR is a story driven, PvE game. PvP is an additional feature to supplement the PvE experience. It's why when 4.0 came out, it was all story driven content, focused on PvE. The only thing PvP got was a new set of gear and new brackets. It's a side feature, that not everyone enjoys or participates in.

 

So no, there should be no companions that are gated behind PvP requirements. If bioware wants to set up some companions that require PvP elements to recruit them, I'm personally ok with that. I don't need every companion in the game. But since PvE and story content is the main focus of this game, there should be an option to skip these companions without being penalized by losing access to additional companions.

 

That's why it's illogical.

 

And on that same note, the companions with PvE requirements should have the same option as well. Don't want to do Qyzen's quest? Refuse it and him, then move on. Don't feel like farming mats to save Lokin? Tell him monsters deserve to die and leave him to his own doom.

 

One of Bioware's big promotions for this game was player decisions matter, and then limited those decisions to make it so you have to do certain things.

 

All I've been asking for this entire time in this thread, is the option to skip companions I don't want. I'm not asking them to change or alter requirements to acquire these companions, just the option to pass on them without being penalized for it.

[well]

EXACTLY!

 

And wanna something? I've been PvPing since beta on my Commando...I still get wrecked EVERY WZ! Even people who have been playing for a long time get wrecked...we all do...that's the difference between PvP and PvE...in PvE, everyone can win...in PvP, half the players have to lose. Expect it - don't get frustrated by it...it's not an Ops boss you can adjust to, these are people you need to adapt to.

 

You need music playing while playing PVP.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8

[Master-Nala]

That's a valiant attempt, I'll give you that. But off the mark.

 

Companions aren't used in Warzones or FFA PvP zones, like Outlaws Den and the Gree event. You only use companions when you're doing PvE content in PvE zones. Open world PvP servers are still using companions in PvE zones. Having companions doing PvP is a byproduct of having them in PvE zones/content.

 

Now, you're just redefining terms to suit your argument. What does "PvE zones" mean on a PvP server? No your use of the term is meaningless then. The developers have not named any zone thus and I have no need to accept your self-serving definition.

 

None of the companions you originally get for your class are acquired through PvP.

 

Irrelevant. No companion you get from your class quest requires PvP. M1-4X will immediately join any Trooper and Major Pierce will immediately join any Warrior. For every other class these companions are entirely new. As such the developers have every opportunity to assign whatever conditions they wish for their attainment.

 

SWTOR is a story driven, PvE game. PvP is an additional feature to supplement the PvE experience. It's why when 4.0 came out, it was all story driven content, focused on PvE. The only thing PvP got was a new set of gear and new brackets. It's a side feature, that not everyone enjoys or participates in.

 

You may see it as a PvE game, but that statement is false on its face. This game launched with PvP integrated into multiple game systems. Neither you nor I can define what the game's systems mean. Only the developers can. And their intentions are clear from their actions.

 

So no, there should be no companions that are gated behind PvP requirements. If bioware wants to set up some companions that require PvP elements to recruit them, I'm personally ok with that. I don't need every companion in the game. But since PvE and story content is the main focus of this game, there should be an option to skip these companions without being penalized by losing access to additional companions.

 

That's why it's illogical.

 

Again, only if you choose not to use actual logic. You are entitled to your opinion. An opinion that I actually agree with partially in that you should be able to refuse the companion and move on. But trying to sound your opinion in logic fails and always will.

 

Understand, logic demands that you are incorrect because the developer have already done what you posit they should not be able to do. The developers can define any condition in the game. As such appeals to logic are meaningless as the underlying condition can be changed.

 

So even if you say that M1-4X is a PvE companion, the developers have changed that condition to false by awarding him in PvP.

 

All I've been asking for this entire time in this thread, is the option to skip companions I don't want. I'm not asking them to change or alter requirements to acquire these companions, just the option to pass on them without being penalized for it.

 

And as I said, that is a reasonable request. You don't need to try to bolster your position with faulty appeals to logic.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Master-Nala

[Psychopyro]

You need music playing while playing PVP.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8

 

Actually I hear this is really good

[AngFour]

I thought KotFE was all about our choices. My choice would not include recruiting Qyzen for my agent. Unfortunately I have to slog through his stuff just to get a companion I actually would CHOOSE to have: Doctor Lokin.

 

I would prefer to have something like a mission terminal where I get to choose which companions I have to do a song and dance for. I don't want to do grindy missions just to have the choice to reject them in the future. Let me reject them from the get-go and let me move on to the next alert. Having everyone gated behind each other is ridiculous.

 

I don't want Yuun. I don't want Qyzen. I don't want Guss. I definitely don't want Xalec.

 

Heck, I really don't want Kaliyo, but, much like SCORPIO-who I also didn't really want, it looks like I won't have much of a choice there. I just hope I get the choice to shoot her in her stupid face.

 

Less grind. More choices. Real choices. Choices made at the beginning. Not after hours of frustration (looking at you, Pierce).

 

This way all my characters can have a different Alliance experience and different possible CHOICES for their story.

[CloudCastle]

It's a not a matter of not wanting to do the appropriate work for the reward, as I saw one person pages back put it. It's a problem of the requirements not matching the reward.

 

What if you worked hard and earned your black belt in Karate, but then the dojo told you that to keep it you had to take 20 cooking classes?

 

I don't want companions that were previously on my crew to be gated behind a another, unrelated companion's PvP requirement. Sure, I can forgo having M1-4X. I'll deal with that. But what if Akaavi is locked behind M1-4X? What if Andronikos is? What if 10 other future companions are? I had those companions already and I didn't have to PvP to "earn" them. Why add this new requirement now?

 

It's also not a matter of the alliance quests being optional or not true story content. The alliance quests do count as story. And if you want your companions back, doing these quests is not optional. Talking to Lokin, finding out what he's been doing these past 5 years, learning about how I can help him with his research, having him tell me just what it would take to bring him out of retirement... This is his story and I want to hear it.

 

I want to know what ALL my companions have been up to these last 5 years. I want to hear all their stories.

 

Companions are PvE content and they are story content. Therefore, they belong in the realm of PvE and story game play. Different players like different things. Why try to force people into play styles they are disinterested in, or maybe even hate, especially this late in the game?

 

I take heart knowing that Eric said they are still considering how to handle this and that it is not set in stone. In the meantime, I plan to limit the number of characters I take into KOTFE. The rest will wait and see.