Let’s Chat – Cartel Market and You: New pack design (Underworld Alliance)

[Gindorf]

I felt that I HAD to get a hypercrate before commenting here on my thoughts. I have been keeping up with this thread and the other so was aware that I would only be receiving two items...

 

So here are my thoughts/feelings:

Underwhelmed.

 

I used to love opening packs. So much that often I would have to stop myself from opening a full hypercrate in one sitting. This new crate however was nothing like the last.

 

It felt very quick and brief, even though I never cared for the boosts or companion gifts, it was always fun to see the armors I got + w/e other goodies I did. I like that you get multiple pieces of armor at one go (ie the armor boxes) but it still feels very underwhelming when considering the 40 dollars that you are spending for a crate.

 

(For those that care I got: 2 gold (armor crates), 7 silver (3 mounts, 2 of the same; 3 crates, 2 of the same; and 1 deco), and 19 bronze (5 mounts, 3 of the same; 8 decos, 2 of the same; 7 armors, (3 sets of 2 and 1 unique) )

[Sansanor]

A] How does the new Underworld Alliance pack structure feel?

B] What are your thoughts on the pack consolidation?

C] What suggestions do you have?

 

A] It feels like I'm being milked.

 

B] I think it was the worst thing you could have done for the Cartel Market.

 

C] I suggest going back to the old Pack/Hypercrate structure, for one. The old structure worked just fine for most people. It was worth the money. The new Packs/Hypercrates are not worth the money at all. For two, reorganize the Cartel Market to make it more user friendly. As it is, you cannot search, the different sections do not allow for subsections to create an easier organization structure to the Market, and the packs do not give much information as to what exactly is found inside them. You have to go to Collections to figure that out, but even Collections does not have a full roster of what might be found, such as the Decorations in it. Those are not included in the Collections panel.

 

 

A] What are your thoughts on the changes to Hypercrates and the addition of Supercrates?

B] Do you feel they are worth their cost?

C] Do you enjoy opening them?

C-1] If so, what do you enjoy most?

C-2] If not, what do you like least?

 

A] The changes to the Hypercrates are poorly thought out. While it might have been great news to hear that the number has been increased to 30, the fact that the amount of items inside each pack has been cut drastically, from 5-6 down to 2 is extremely disappointing. I feel like I'm the butt of a very bad joke.

 

B] NO. I won't be purchasing any more Cartel Coins anytime soon, partly for this reason, and partly for all the other idiotic changes to this game!!

 

C] I used to.

C-1] It's like buying a grab-bag. It's the element of surprise that's involved. It's the anticipation, wondering what might be inside.

C-2] The Changes!!!

 

Are you more or less likely to purchase packs from the Market and why?

 

How about this: I Will Not Purchase Another Pack Until They Go Back To The Old Amount Inside Each Pack!! Why? I detailed all the reasons above.

 

Can you share any experiences or first impressions you’ve had with the new pack structure?

 

My first and only experience was very poor. I purchased one of the new single-item packs, hoping for something great. I wasn't exactly excited by what I did receive. While I didn't have it yet, I didn't really care for it and it wasn't exactly very valuable. Oh well, lesson learned: I won't buy packs anymore!!

[bseefeldt]

Hello, Like many I like that all the armor comes in a crate, I do think Removing Jawa junk was a bad move and I do miss getting rep. I think the drop rates are really bad and I will tell u why. I have gotten 6 hyper crates and I do not like the fact that I still needed 4 of the 6 crates to finish the 2 gold armor sets. I still haven't gotten a gold deco. and only one Rat mount. I did get 2 Akk Dogs,but by no means does that make up for the drop rates since all the stuff on the gtn is the same and i am making nothing back and will still have to fork over about 15 - 20 mill in cred just to finish the armor sets. also when u do add weapons back that will make the drop rate even worse. Befor i would spend 30 to 40 mill in credits and some CC and would get almost everything in a set and I would make back most if not profit if luck was on my side and i would get some good drops now. I will have to totally rethink buying any new packs. I have seen a up swing in crystals on the gtn and the armor sets seem to be making a lil come back as in people are selling more. weapons on the gtn suck I don't think I would ever buy a crate even if I knew it was going to be gold because they are pretty worthless if it isn't what u needed. To end this Post I have to say that all in all I feel kinda ripped off by the drop rates on the new packs

[YlliyaXor]

Personally i think the packs were at it's best in the stronghold packs, you got one guaranteed deco, two pieces of gear, jawa mats, rep token/cert and two filler items, the only problem was the low drop rate of the good stuff vs. the high drop rate of the crappy stuff, and my first gripe with hypercrates in general is said crappy stuff, why insist on socorro weapons and cybernetic armour that you know it's unpopular?

 

Why would i spend money for the chance to get something i would throw away if i got it for free?

 

You took one step in the right direction by reducing armour to three parts, now you need to take a step further and reduce it to a full set of armour, you can still control the drop rates so the most desirable ones are harder to get, so you will not lose that much and you would make your customers happier, you already got an idea of how successful this formula would be with the galactic legends armour pack.

 

Finally you should make the experience of buying packs something pleasant and rewarding, you should add some method that allows someone with a cargo full of useless/undesirable stuff to trade it for that one thing that they desire, it's illogical to force the person who supports the game with purchases, to still have to spend in game credits to buy something he more that payed for, from someone luckier.

[bseefeldt]

Quote: Originally Posted by TobyMcCall View Post

Thank you all for your responses. This is exactly the kind of dialogue I hoped for. Let me try to reiterate some of the issues you’re bringing up.

 

Firstly, I understand you feel that fewer items in the pack makes the pack feel less valuable. One of our goals in the 4.0 restructure was to consolidate the packs by removing some of the items that player feedback showed felt like clutter. I think it’s clear we may have over-tuned that and we will make changes based on the valuable feedback this thread is already providing. Yes !!

 

Secondly, you feel the companion gift item isn’t as valuable as XP boosts, Jawa Crafting Materials and Reputation Certifications. So, if we add more items to the pack, you feel these items should be included. Yes to Jawa Crafting Materials and Reputation Certifications. But no one wants XP boosts back, no one.

 

Additionally, you feel that fewer chances, or “rolls”, on a Gold item feels like the pack has less value. The pre 4.0 pack structure provided two chances at a SuperRare (Gold) items. The post 4.0 structure combined those two chances into one. Mathematically, this one chance to drop a Gold item has more than the combined percent chance of both the pre 4.0 pack structure chances, effectively making it better for the buyer. However, no matter what the math is, if opening a pack feels less valuable, then we missed our mark and we will work to correct that.

 

I think we would all would be happy with something like this, or at least I would.

 

Part 1 of 4 items : One crate of armor pieces

Part 2 of 4 Items : One decoration, mount, or new companion.

Part 3 of 4 Items : One weapon, crystal, toy, or Jawa junk of random rarity

Part 4 of 4 Items : One pet, emote, cartel certificate or companion gift item of legend rank.

 

And If you bring back Rep then add the random rarity drop to every pack.

Edited October 30, 2015 by bseefeldt

[OddballEasyEight]

Please don't pretend to speak for what "people like." PEOPLE are explaining what they/we like quite adequately for ourselves, thank you. You've posted that YOU got great rolls on the goodies in the new packs and you like the structure...that's great, sincerely, I am glad to read that someone had the good fortune of getting good stuff. But it is painfully obvious by reading the majority of these posts that this was the exception and not the rule. We were asked if WE FEEL that the new structure was an improvement to US. Most of us do not. Arguing about our perception is unwarranted and obnoxious. If you dig the new setup, great! But don't impose your accusations on the rest of us and imply that you know better what we feel/think than we do please.

 

I honestly doubt most of what is posted here.

 

There's alot of "I opened X number of hypercrates and got no golds at all", which is the kind of hyperbole that shows up every time a new pack is released.

On average, people are getting about as much of the super-rare stuff ast they used to, it's just that they fail to realise that alot of the "gold" stuff in the old packs weren't actually super-rare, but just rare.

And those count as silver now.

 

Sure, there's bound to be a few whom the RNG gods flipped the finger at, but that doesn't mean it's the norm.

Since the launch of the cartel packs, I've always bought 3 hypercrates of each pack and always gotten less completion of the entire pack than I have in this pack.

I'm not saying that means this pack gives more completion per hypercrate (there's always RNG, after all), but I find it highly doubtful that it gives less than the old packs, since there's simply less items in the pack and you get more parts of outfits than you used to (guaranteed a box instead of just an individual piece).

 

So while there's less in each individual pack, you'll still be getting a higher percentage of the total selection per hypercrate than you used to.

[Sorrai]

I am loving many aspects of this new expansion but the changes made to hypercrates is definitely not one of them. I am going to vent here. I'm very displeased with what they've done regarding cartel packs. The new CM hypercrate format needs to change immediately. I don't think they should even be considered as "packs". A single item coupled with a boring companion gift does not constitute a "pack" to me. A companion gift should not be considered as having any substantial value. It's little more than a disposable condiment--like a packet of mustard for your hot dog. That isn't fun or exciting at all. I want goodies in my packs!

 

Like many others this game is a big hobby of mine. On top of being a dedicated subscriber I also regularly purchase a hypercrate with the justification and rationale that I don't mind investing in something that gives me a sense of satisfaction and value for my money while also financially supporting a game that I greatly enjoy. However, this drastic new change definitely makes me feel like I am getting much less for such a high cost. At roughly $40 a hypercrate, I am definitely discouraged from spending so much real money on so little imaginary items.

 

 

They need to restore the following to each pack:

 

1) Jawa Junk. These were a nice staple for mat gathering and therefore are items of value.

2) Cartel certificates. One of the nicest things about these was they could be put toward acquiring rare and valuable items. I felt like this was a nice system that further rewarded players who invested in packs by offering an alternative way to acquire rare items they might otherwise never be able to obtain.

3) Credit Boon. These random credit bonuses were a fun and rewarding mini-prize to receive in a pack. Isn't the point of any game to have fun and feel rewarded?

4) Reputation. I like the Reputation system and the exclusive rewards it offers. It adds extra incentive for players who are already making that steady grind with regular pack purchases.

5) The exclusive Hypercrate bonus pack. I liked these a lot. This was a fun and rewarding bonus item to receive that guaranteed players who invested their hard-earned cash in a very expensive hypercrate would always receive a rare and unique item on top of the normal packs they purchased. People *like* perks!

 

 

Things I never want to see in a pack again:

 

1) Space Mission, Exploration, Class Story, GSF, Warzone experience boosts. Leveling is no longer the grueling grind it used to be and these redundant XP boosts should never waste space in a pack again. I think Minor and Major XP boosts are still fine when considering the F2P crowd who will benefit most from them.

[Nuffmeister]

I honestly doubt most of what is posted here.

 

There's alot of "I opened X number of hypercrates and got no golds at all", which is the kind of hyperbole that shows up every time a new pack is released.

On average, people are getting about as much of the super-rare stuff ast they used to, it's just that they fail to realise that alot of the "gold" stuff in the old packs weren't actually super-rare, but just rare.

And those count as silver now.

 

Sure, there's bound to be a few whom the RNG gods flipped the finger at, but that doesn't mean it's the norm.

Since the launch of the cartel packs, I've always bought 3 hypercrates of each pack and always gotten less completion of the entire pack than I have in this pack.

I'm not saying that means this pack gives more completion per hypercrate (there's always RNG, after all), but I find it highly doubtful that it gives less than the old packs, since there's simply less items in the pack and you get more parts of outfits than you used to (guaranteed a box instead of just an individual piece).

 

So while there's less in each individual pack, you'll still be getting a higher percentage of the total selection per hypercrate than you used to.

 

This is honestly just out of my own curiosity and not an attack or anything.

 

With the amount of referrals you get per month (I remember you once saying it was quite a bit) and the CC that comes with it, what do you need to spend from your own pocket for 3 hypercrates per month?

 

I hope it is not an inappropriate question, the only reason I ask is if you get quite a lot of free CC that offsets a monetary cost, then you may be spending far less than those of us that just get a sub and security key allotment, thus feel that you get quite a bit of bang for your buck.

[Karkais]

I am unsure of what to think of the new packs so far, but here are some of my thoughts:

 

- removal of the nigh-useless junk that cannot even be sold to vendors like specialized xp boosts from the packs: excellent

 

- removal of Jawa junk: bad

 

- 5 pack superpack: good

 

- Colored icons by rarity: Very bad. I hadn't even noticed the icon color until I read the devblog linked in the topic post. Before that I had consciously searched for some signs how to separate the rarities, but did not find any since I didnt know what I was looking for. The icon colors are FAR too subtle, and the icons too small on our modern-day large screens and high resolutions. There is also the issue of colourblind people (I am not one) Even looking at the icons right now, I cant tell the difference between gold and bronze. One is darker, the other is lighter, but the color is basically same... which one is which? (I actually dont know lol)

(SUGGESTION: Change the color of the name of the item in the tooltip info tab to signify rarity, rather than the cartel icon. Name is much larger than cartel icon, its also something you automatically look at. Also: pick a color other than bronze, it looks too similar to gold in my opinion.)

 

 

- The grand packs: I am not sure whether these are worth the cartel coins. In fact I am almost sure they are not, except maybe the 200cc one. Since theres only one item in the pack, chances of it being something useless and thus making me feel like I wasted my money go up. I am really hesitant of the idea of spending 1200 cartel coins for a suit of armor that sells for crappy 50000 at the GTM. (I dont know what armor can drop. I bit the bullet of buying one gold armor pack as an experiment, ended up with concealed bodysuit set, which made me quite unhappy. Not only is it something I would not use myself, I dont think an armor that looks like this is going to sell well at GTM either.)

 

Also I am definitely against the idea of something being ONLY in these packs rather than the all-around packs. The idea of these packs may have some merit, but without knowing exactly what can drop and what the chances are, I am really hesitant of buying these packs. Reality is that collector items are usually strongly divided between chase items and useless crap, which makes it hard to sell this stuff to players except when they are all mixed together.

 

Things I never want to see in a pack again:

 

1) Space Mission, Exploration, Class Story, GSF, Warzone experience boosts. Leveling is no longer the grueling grind it used to be and these redundant XP boosts should never waste space in a pack again. I think Minor and Major XP boosts are still fine when considering the F2P crowd who will benefit most from them.

Agreed. The specific xp boosts were by a long shot the most useless item that ever came out of cartel packs. Just something that clogged up your inventory for the seconds it took you to destroy them, Im thankful they are no more.

 

For reference, I will list here in order of importance the items that I am most looking forward to finding in a cartel pack:

 

1. Good looking adaptable and customizable armor sets. However, the costume design in SWTOR could STILL after all these years, use a heap of improvement. Most armor looks good, but has some really glaring fault or weakness that makes me not want to wear it. If the general quality of armor visual design would improve, I would be much happier and excited in opening more cartel packs. Thexans armor set marks possibly the first aesthetically truly flawless armor set in SWTOR history. Its a good sign, but by Naga Sadow's toothbrush, why did it take you THIS long to produce goodlooking armor? I hope you learn from this.

(quick list of common issues in armor design: 1. Stupid protruding objects that serve no discernible purpose but to collide with door frames. Especially shoulderpads 2. Major issues with inexplainable textures. For example Ulic-Qel Dromas boots have a fur lining. Why in blazes does the fur GLINT like its made of metal or plastic? 3. Armor has a glaring tertiary color that cannot be dyed. 4. Most dyes look like they were designed by a blind person. 5. The armor does not mix well with other armor. Usually because of textures make same dye look like different color between pieces. If decision would have been mine the person in charge of armor design since 2 years after launch would never work in this business again. )

 

2. Stronghold items. Nearly always welcome.

 

3. Cartel market certificates

 

4. Jawa junk. Its really useful to have. Allows us crafters to avoid raging for crew mission drops at least a little bit.

 

5. Special resting animation items. These are decently cool.

 

6. Lightsaber crystals. Nice, but theres an abundance of them these days and they did a really bad number to Artifice.

 

Things I don't want to see when opening a cartel pack:

1. specialized xp boosts. Simple xp boost that affects everything is ok. Space mission xp boost has less value than naval fluff.

2. Speeders. There are enough of them already,

3. crafting materials, unless its purple quality. Id rather take jawa junk.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Karkais

[Voemel]

I have posted regarding the Cartel Market changes in other older threads, but I will add my thoughts here also.

 

I am a frequent cartel coin purchaser. I buy over $100 of Cartel Coins per month. I buy 2 to 3 Hypercrates per release. I also spend Cartel Coins randomly each month on exclusive weapons and armor sets. I will also pay to unlock each of those if I really like them. So, I don't think of myself as a "whale", but I believe I spend more than the average. All this is in addition to my 6 month recurring subscription.

 

With the launch of 4.0, I ended up buying 2 hypercrates, the Thexan armor set, and one Gold Armor crate.

 

With the Thexan Armor set, I was EXTREMELY happy. I saw an armor set I liked, went to the Cartel Market and purchased it. Just incredible! Can you believe it? I saw an item and was able to buy just that item! And afterwards, I was a happy customer.

 

As far as the 2 Hypercrates go, I didn't get a single piece of Sith Recluse gear, nor an Akk Dogg. As a matter of fact, I only received 2 gold armor items combined. 1 Zildrog Upper and 1 Zildrog lower. And a Womp Rat mount. Thats it for Gold items. Not an exaggeration. Not hyperbole. I was underwhelmed.

 

With the Gold Armor crate, I received the Humble Hero set. WHAT!?!?!?!?! If i wanted that set I would have purchased it directly from the cartel market for 1200 CC. I thought for my 1200 CC with the Gold Armor crate I was buying a chance to get an armor set from the Cartel Packs! HORRIBLE! I will never again purchase any tiered crate. Fool me once, as they say.

 

THE BEST SOLUTION

What I would love to see happen is the Collections page turn into a method of Direct Purchase. Open up the Collections tab, find an item you like, AND PURCHASE IT! Crazy concept, to be sure. Bioware could continue selling dyes, emotes, pets, etc. with lottery boxes while making money on direct sales.

 

ANOTHER SOLUTION

If Bioware insist on utilizing the gambling box system to such an extreme, they should consider a more staged approach to the Gold, Silver, Bronze system. I would prefer to see each Shipment have Gold, Silver, Bronze packs available.

For the Hypercrates, I see that many have made fantastic suggestions on how to improve them. I agree with adding back Cartel Rep, Cartel Certs, Emotes, Crystals, Weapons, Jawa Mats, and Character Customization's. I would like to see a chance for 2 golds per pack. (The first 2 items to be on the reputation vendor for this release would be the Akk Dog and Sith Recluse set.)

 

The structure I would prefer is -

1 Gold, and not a CHANCE at 1, but 1 actual Gold

1 chance at gold, but mostly silver or bronze level item

1 Rep Item or Cert

1 Jawa Mat, emote, weapon, custimization, crystal

1 Decoration

 

Well, thats just me. Call me a dreamer.

 

One more thing -

After doing some research on the prices of items on the GTN, I found that even with my limited playing time, I would be much better off moving forward with only purchasing these items on the GTN. I could have bought with a bit more than 1 million credits one of each of the items I received from the Hypercrates. Unless the model is changed, that is exactly what I will be doing with the next pack release.

[Master-Nala]

Thank you all for your responses. This is exactly the kind of dialogue I hoped for. Let me try to reiterate some of the issues you’re bringing up.

 

Firstly, I understand you feel that fewer items in the pack makes the pack feel less valuable. One of our goals in the 4.0 restructure was to consolidate the packs by removing some of the items that player feedback showed felt like clutter. I think it’s clear we may have over-tuned that and we will make changes based on the valuable feedback this thread is already providing.

 

I think the feeling of clutter comes from things like the specific xp boosts, at least for me.

 

Secondly, you feel the companion gift item isn’t as valuable as XP boosts, Jawa Crafting Materials and Reputation Certifications. So, if we add more items to the pack, you feel these items should be included.

 

YES, except for the non-generic xp boosts. Those suck.

 

Additionally, you feel that fewer chances, or “rolls”, on a Gold item feels like the pack has less value. The pre 4.0 pack structure provided two chances at a SuperRare (Gold) items. The post 4.0 structure combined those two chances into one. Mathematically, this one chance to drop a Gold item has more than the combined percent chance of both the pre 4.0 pack structure chances, effectively making it better for the buyer. However, no matter what the math is, if opening a pack feels less valuable, then we missed our mark and we will work to correct that.

 

Right, but you're missing a couple of things:

 

1) Sometimes you guys miss the mark on what is worth a lot to the players. So something may be very rare although no one really wants it;

2) Double a really small number is still a really small number. So when you combine the chances it won't feel like a better chance, but it will feel like you lost an item (even if that item was crap) that you used to get.

Edited October 31, 2015 by CommunityDroidEU

[Cindlehr]

I'm honestly really pissed off with the new pack.

 

This is the first game I have ever put real money into the market for extra stuff.

 

Previous versions of packs were pretty awesome. But I feel like for paying the exact same price, minus 50 c or something, I'm being totally scammed.

 

Old pack- 250 gets you- multiple costume pieces, decoration/s for place, gifts, mats, rep, mount. Usually 5-9 items if you are counting items inside of crates.

 

I'm cool with that. Put in $20 get a bunch of different crates, have stuff to keep or sell.

 

With this pack, its put money in, get 2 items. The ones I've picked up are utterly useless. It's very frustrating to me. It makes me really mad and feel like I'm being gipped. I'm paying real money that I've worked hard to get for something fun, and it doesn't equal out at all for me.

 

that's my thoughts.

[Ysreen]

Here’s a few prompts to start the conversation:

 

How does the new Underworld Alliance pack structure feel? What are your thoughts on the pack consolidation? What suggestions do you have?

What are your thoughts on the changes to Hypercrates and the addition of Supercrates? Do you feel they are worth their cost? Do you enjoy opening them? If so, what do you enjoy most? If not, what do you like least?

Are you more or less likely to purchase packs from the Market and why?

Can you share any experiences or first impressions you’ve had with the new pack structure?

 

 

1) When it comes to "under-packs", meaning Emote, mounts and such, I'm very pleased except for 1 thing: the price. Yes, it may seem like it's written all over, but for a good reason. More than 8€ for 1 armor set, and a random one at that? Come on! That's too much. I don't say they should cost 20 CC either, but in my opinion, 500CC would be far enough for the gold armor set. Let's be honest, the prices as they are now will make players run, and run fast.

I was lucky enough to get 8 emotes I didn't have out of 10 packs I bought, but that's the only luck I had till now.

 

2) The hypercrates.... let's talk 'bout them... well... I bought two because of what I thought I may have inside......and that I didn't get even ONCE... So I'm quite frustrated now. Before, there was 24 crates with many different things inside, not only armor set pieces or mounts, but even crafting materials, Cartel certificate, and more... Some very useful other less... But still, for 24 crates we got more than 100 things. Now: only 60 ...and rarity is on such a high level that it's almost impossible to get a complete golden armor set without buying at least 20 hypercrates... And I'm only exagerating a little. It would be kind of you developpers and the team in charge of Cartel Market, to remember this: we, players, do not have bottomless pockets of money to put in this. The prices as they are now are far too high.

 

3) I think that I will not buy any crates of hypercrates from now on, if that stays this way. I may buy from time to time furnitures, emotes, maybe even mounts... But no Gold armor, no crates, no hypercrates.

 

4) There is one thing that I think would please many many many players: automatically unlock for legacy any thing discovered in a pack. Or at least put a 10 CC price for everything (including armor sets, weapons, mounts) ... But I think I'll see ponies turn pink, purple and blue with a horn on the head before that happen right... well, a girl has the right to dream x)

 

 

Anyway, you did a very good job with this extension, and apart from a few bugs here and there, and that black sheep that is the cartel market, I'm very happy with it!

Keep up the good work and listen to players! They got good ideas!

Edited October 30, 2015 by Ysreen

[Cindlehr]

I would suggest more items and higher drop rates for items people like. Things like Jetpacks, and that awesome circle bike thing I never managed to get. You release really cool stuff, but because of the drop rate (I get it, sell it inc. Oh wait I don't have time to make a ton of money in game) they become really hard to get. The only epic drop I've really ever gotten was the jetpack (wohoo).

 

I spent a ton of money trying to get the bounty hunters table from the one pack, in game money mostly but still. I pretty much bought out all of the packs available on GTN and nothing.

 

I get the hey this makes a ton of extra money, but please think about players who do this who don't have hundreds of dollars to spend. I think Treek/HK/Tauntaun/Arcan's Armor are way overpriced. You're asking almost $50 for a companion. That is insane. The game itself is $15 a month, which is cool, but why pay so much more to get a companion?

 

I find it frustrating because I like a lot of the décor and things that were dropping, but feel like the packs just went downhill. I spend some money here because I enjoy the game, if am choosing to spend money on other perks for the game, I would expect to at least get an equivalent of what I spent back. I have a ton of different exp boost that I'm prob going to end up donating because the GTN sells them for almost nothing. No one wants them.

 

My suggestions

 

* Keep crates cheapish 250 is okay

* lower certain costs that make 0 sense- HK etc.

* With crates include things we want- not This item OR this item. Mount, DECORATION, weapon, clothing, rep., companion items. Listen to feedback on what we like. Make drop rates higher, I know it boost the economy but it really makes it suck for certain players.

* Do something with the reputation stuff please, I am maxed out with one place- can't sell the rep I get, I have to throw it away or sell it to a bot for cheap. feels pointless

* be careful with buying something and then the price for unlocking it across legacy. Arkan's armor is expensive, I then ended up paying almost the same amount just to unlock it across legacy. That feels really stupid.

 

On a good note I did break down and buy Arkans Armor. It is really well made and very nice looking.

[Cindlehr]

4) There is one thing that I think would please many many many players: automatically unlock for legacy any thing discovered in a pack. Or at least put a 10 CC price for everything (including armor sets, weapons, mounts) ... But I think I'll see ponies turn pink, purple and blue with a horn on the head before that happen right... well, a girl has the right to dream x)

 

I agree with this

[Cindlehr]

It would be kind of you developers and the team in charge of Cartel Market, to remember this: we, players, do not have bottomless pockets of money to put in this. The prices as they are now are far too high.

 

Seconded!!!!!!!!!!! I'm doing a lot just putting out $15 a month for all access.

[Fordbird]

The legacy unlocks going to 400CC is ridiculous. That is way too expensive to gain access to something we already paid for. You guys made sure to shout from the rooftops that this xpac would be "free to all subscribers." I feel like we were lied to at this point seeing the shady way you hid the cost of the xpac in the cartel market and collections. I would prefer to spend $10 or $15 dollars on the xpac rather than be lied to and ripped off via the cash shop.

[JediBoadicea]

First off - thank you, Toby, for reaching out to the community for feedback! It's always great to have an opportunity to be heard.

 

I had previously started a topic in this forum specifically addressing the new changes to the Cartel Market and the packs. If you are still reading this thread then I think the feedback provided there (by myself and by all those who commented there) would speak directly to some of the questions you have posed. That thread can be found here.

 

• How does the new Underworld Alliance pack structure feel? What are your thoughts on the pack consolidation? What suggestions do you have?
  
• What are your thoughts on the changes to Hypercrates and the addition of Supercrates? Do you feel they are worth their cost? Do you enjoy opening them? If so, what do you enjoy most? If not, what do you like least?
  
• Are you more or less likely to purchase packs from the Market and why?
  
• Can you share any experiences or first impressions you’ve had with the new pack structure?
  

 

I addressed all of these in detail in the post I linked to, but in summary: After purchasing and opening a new hypercrate, I found the experience to be far less rewarding than it previously had been, and I do not feel compelled to purchase more until/unless the system changes.

 

Materially, I came away with both numerically fewer items, and qualitatively with items of significantly less value (for either resale or personal enjoyment). Ultimately I felt like my money had mostly been wasted, which was never my previous experience with hypercrates.

 

Psychologically, I just didn't enjoy it, and I felt a little cheated. And ultimately, it's the psychology that keeps people buying. At the end of the day, there's a different psychological impact to opening something that contains two items versus opening something that contains five. The miscellaneous items that might previously have felt like consolation or compensation for not having received a high-ticket Super Rare were a psychological buffer to the feeling of total disappointment; when you remove that buffer, you're left with nothing but the brutal reality of RNG, and when real money is on the line that is not a fun feeling.

 

Firstly, I understand you feel that fewer items in the pack makes the pack feel less valuable.

 

Absolutely. But it's also more than the just the psychology at play. Because Jawa Materials, Cartel Market Certificates, and XP (universal) Boosts all did have actual value. By removing those you are quite literally removing value from the packs. Yes, those items were all the "consolation" items and not the new gear/mounts/etc that people primarily open packs for, but they always had real value because they were currency for other things you could actually use.

 

I think the issue people previously had was not that these items were included, but that often you would get a pack where these items were all you received. I believe this was due to the fact that XP boosts were assigned a rarity value and thus could be rolled up in place of a gear/mount/emote/etc. I think if you simply put these "filler" items on a separate rolling table from the Gold/Silver/Bronze items then you would achieve a good balance. If we assume a pack were to have just four items, then if two of those items were designated to be Gold/Silver/Bronze chances (by whatever formula you're using) and the other two were designated for "filler" items like Jawa Materials, Certificates, Companion Gifts, and Reputation, then you would be approaching a good balance.

 

Secondly, you feel the companion gift item isn’t as valuable as XP boosts, Jawa Crafting Materials and Reputation Certifications. So, if we add more items to the pack, you feel these items should be included.

 

Actually, I wouldn't say that the companion gift isn't as valuable. It is valuable, particularly under the new 4.0 structure where Companion Influence directly impacts their efficacy. Companion Gifts were always previously "filler" in the packs and I think they could still have a place in them. But as the sole bit of padding in a two item pack, they were definitely lackluster because, unlike Jawa Materials or Certificates, they cannot serve multiple purposes. (Certificates buy all sorts of different items, and crafting serves both personal and resale needs.)

 

And I want to take this opportunity to specifically add that the removal of Cartel Market Certificates seems so egregious that it makes me wonder if it was just an oversight? Certificates are a currency that are still actively used in game, at both decorations and reputation vendors. If not in packs, how else are we supposed to get them?

 

I also think that not having a Reputation Vendor for this new Shipment of packs was a poor idea. Almost everyone I know has filled out a collection or acquired a rare item through a cartel pack Reputation Vendor at some point. When a Reputation Vendor had good items in their roster, that alone was reason enough to keep buying packs; even if you never got a single item drop you wanted, you knew you were working your way toward something else you did want.

 

Additionally, you feel that fewer chances, or “rolls”, on a Gold item feels like the pack has less value. The pre 4.0 pack structure provided two chances at a SuperRare (Gold) items. The post 4.0 structure combined those two chances into one. Mathematically, this one chance to drop a Gold item has more than the combined percent chance of both the pre 4.0 pack structure chances, effectively making it better for the buyer. However, no matter what the math is, if opening a pack feels less valuable, then we missed our mark and we will work to correct that.

 

I think an important point this analysis is missing is that it isn't solely about the drop rate on a Gold. Silvers and Bronzes are still desirable, both for personal use and resale. By limiting the number of items that dropped, you just limited the amount of goodies people get - it's really that simple. When I opened my hypercrate, it wasn't the fact that I didn't get a Gold that most bothered me; it was that I ended up with fewer items, period, than I would previously have received. My luck was such that almost everything I received was a Bronze; that was just the RNG, but the point I was making in my other post (linked to above) was that, when the number of chances you have are fewer, RNG hits harder when it doesn't go your way. Gold items are no more valuable now than they've ever been, so essentially the new format just asks people to risk more money per gamble; regardless of the mathematical odds, they can still go against you. And again that's where the psychology comes in. This is all virtual stuff anyway; you lose nothing by giving us the psychological "sop" of getting more goodies in our basket.

 

I want to thank you guys for taking time to make your posts.

 

Thank you for reaching out and for reading them! For years now I have routinely thrown large amounts of money at the Cartel Market, because I love the game, and because I realize the Cartel Market is one of the best ways I can support the game. I want the CM to succeed, and I want to keep spending money there. But I am also a working adult with a sense of my money's value, and I don't to want gamble my money on cartel packs that just aren't fun or rewarding.

Edited October 30, 2015 by JediBoadicea

[Deyjarl]

Firstly, I understand you feel that fewer items in the pack makes the pack feel less valuable. One of our goals in the 4.0 restructure was to consolidate the packs by removing some of the items that player feedback showed felt like clutter. I think it’s clear we may have over-tuned that and we will make changes based on the valuable feedback this thread is already providing.

 

Hope by not just adding filler back again.

 

Secondly, you feel the companion gift item isn’t as valuable as XP boosts, Jawa Crafting Materials and Reputation Certifications. So, if we add more items to the pack, you feel these items should be included.

Not all of those feel more valuable. XP boosts of any kind really are just filler IMO and of no use to most who are spending on crates. Jawa crafting mats other than Purple tier are a really filler also. I doubt there is an express need or desire for Green or blue tier mat vouchers from crates. Purple tier voucher at least lets us choose to buy what we need or want, of value.

 

But at from what I've opened (won't anymore), 50% of what I opened is just a companion affection item and a decoration, that doesn't cut it for value at all.

 

There needs to be some sort of balance in what comes up. If you get 1 low tier item, you shouldn't be stuck getting a second low tier item. There shouldn't be a chance for that at all.

 

Should be an modifier on the roles progressively. If the first roll comes from this chart (say companion affection item), then second roll can't come from this chart or this chart.

 

I understand we can't get top tier items every opening. But 2 examples of what I got, Companion affection item and broken ceiling light in one, and companion item and broken storage box in another is just not measuring up the the value to open them.

 

And I miss the crates being tied to different reps. It was a nice reason to collect certain crates.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Deyjarl

[Tsillah]

You know, if you open a crate worth of packs and you still have to buy pretty much all of the bronze quality decorations from the gtn, then something is not right in this bronze, silver, gold rating of items.

 

Bronze items should be common

Silver imtes should be uncommon

Gold should be rare and some can be super rare

 

But when I get bronze armour boxes thrown at me but the bronze decorations are actually rare in a crate, it makes no sense to me. BW, you really have to start thinking what it means for a person to open a hypercrate and how much of the stuff in there is actually useful or exciting for the price of 35 Euro. It's always been a bit on the edge of what's reasonable but it just fell off the edge with this new approach.

 

Please, get rid of this variety of xp boosts. Just the general one matters.

And please get rid of armor boxes like the upper, lower and supplementary boxes. They actually add to the problem instead of helping and please make the rarity of armour pieces of the same set more the same. It's still silly that the original revan's belt or mask are worth millions and the chest piece is 50k.

 

It just needs to be balanced more so that the rarities make more sense.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Tsillah

[PatT]

Let me start by saying some of the cullings and consolidations were great and felt long overdue. No one needed a forty-seventh minor starfighter experience boost that would not stack with the other three, and moving to armor crates only instead of individual armor pieces was a great move as well. Both of these were great ideas.

 

However, the packs were over-simplified and they just don't feel as fun to open any more. Like previous posters said, the removal of Jawa junk is the most glaring offender - it was the one thing I literally could not have enough of, the one thing I knew was going to make the pack at least somewhat worthwhile no matter what items actually came with it. In the same vein, I miss getting reputation items and/or cartel certificates. All these were guaranteed tokens of value that one could rely on, however miniscule. With them gone, so is the incentive to amass packs.

 

If this is the new pack/crate structure going forth, I will honestly stop buying crates entirely and just get contents from the GTN instead. If you ask me personally, the ideal pack would contain:

 

 

• One crate of armor pieces
  
• One serving of Jawa junk of random rarity
  
• One rep item or one cartel certificate
  
• One of either a crystal, a weapon, a decoration, a mount, a pet or an emote
  

 

Four things, two of which are bound to character/legacy, seems like the best ratio to make contents appeal to both buyers and resellers. The sheer abundance of companion gift drops in-game since 4.0 makes including them in cartel packs fairly superfluous in my opinion.

 

That's my 2 cents. Thank you for reaching out and giving us the chance to consolidate feedback.

 

This. A thousand times, this.

[PatT]

The legacy unlocks going to 400CC is ridiculous. That is way too expensive to gain access to something we already paid for. You guys made sure to shout from the rooftops that this xpac would be "free to all subscribers." I feel like we were lied to at this point seeing the shady way you hid the cost of the xpac in the cartel market and collections. I would prefer to spend $10 or $15 dollars on the xpac rather than be lied to and ripped off via the cash shop.

 

Wait. I've seen legacy unlocks for 600.

That, I won't do.

 

The whole thing feels terribly like a money grab. And now that my companions don't need anything (most of them), what am I to do with all the armors? Besides, Getting what i *wanted* still proved to be impossible and I ended up having to buy things off the GTN for multi-million credits because they simply don't drop.

 

And DECORATIONS.

Jawa Junk

Cartel Certificates

 

keep your xp boosts. I have hundreds. I don't want any more. Ever.

I do have 4 strongholds with about 2000 hooks to fill and a guild stronghold... I could use more lights, rugs and decos in general. NOT piles of junk. Lights. Rugs. Furniture. Not just chairs. More variety and way higher drop rate.

 

You want to know what we want. Go look on the gtn. If there are 300 of them for under 5k, we don't want it. If there are 2 for 15 mill apiece, I think you can figure that out. Some things are ridiculously rare and impossible to afford because of it. And there are players to make bank off of playing to that. You are exacerbating matters completely.

 

Besides, you gutted the crafting market with your cartel packs. Now y ou are gutting the cartel packs but you took away the stuff we coudl craft. I don't get it at all.

 

Sometimes I wonder if you are are only listening to the 1%?

[Murder_Toys]

Hi Toby

 

I liked the recent Underworld Alliance pack in terms of swtor decorations am a big SH person so am very happy i like at least 2 npcs with each alliance pack . I did nt think the armour was great to be honest .

 

In terms of buying packs I only got 1 hyper crate when normally when a brand new shipment comes along I get 2 to 4 hypercrate this time around . I did not there was two main reasons

 

1> NO shipment Vendor rep = I can t justify buying allot of hyper crates anymore I usd to say to myself will at least i l get rep to buy older items from the cartel market . I wanted to see a rep vendor with a Nexus as the legend rep . but sadly no

 

2) just word of mouth that the packs at the current price are not good vaule

 

I enjoy opening packs but I would like to get a reward that I can reach too eg buy more packs and get rep with the shipment vendor etc .. but with no vendor this time I have nothing to look forward too.

 

Nice pack deco wise

 

keep up the good work dude:rak_03:

Edited October 31, 2015 by Murder_Toys

[OddballEasyEight]

This is honestly just out of my own curiosity and not an attack or anything.

 

With the amount of referrals you get per month (I remember you once saying it was quite a bit) and the CC that comes with it, what do you need to spend from your own pocket for 3 hypercrates per month?

 

I hope it is not an inappropriate question, the only reason I ask is if you get quite a lot of free CC that offsets a monetary cost, then you may be spending far less than those of us that just get a sub and security key allotment, thus feel that you get quite a bit of bang for your buck.

 

Well, usually my CC stipend covers the crates.

 

The thing I actually pay for is unlocks.

 

So I'll buy the three hypercrates with the stipends (that's just lately, of course. Before the friend referral stuff kicked off I still had to buy it all), and then I'll use my own cash to purchase unlocks of whatever outfit I like for my other characters (I usually just throw the outfits on my main to get them into collections as I don't have the patience to wait for the bind timer).

 

But like I said, you have to remember that I've been doing this since the launch of the cartel market.

So it's not like I've been getting these hypercrates "for free" or anything.

The friend referral thing also didn't really pick up for me until the launch of the KotFE trailer. Before that I got about one hypercrate for "free" each month. If I was lucky.

So I'm quite aware of the value of a hypercrate. I'm not born with a silver spoon in my mouth either, I've been unemployed without benefits for about 15 years and only just recently got a steady job with a steady paycheck.

So I'm inclined to say that I might even value CC's more than most here. Because I'm painfully aware of the feeling of having to reason how much you can spend on the game and how much you need to save for food and necessities.

 

Ps. There's nothing stopping you from putting a link in your sig and getting some free CC. You should try it

Edited October 31, 2015 by OddballEasyEight

[Rapparee]

How does the new Underworld Alliance pack structure feel? What are your thoughts on the pack consolidation? What suggestions do you have?

The gold / silver packs structure is great for new folks to the Cartel Market. However, if you are the type who buys 2 or 3 hypercrates then the gold/silver packs aren't a direct help to you. They won't fill in that last piece. They only serve as GTN fodder so you can then search the GTN for your last piece and hopefully have the credits to afford it.

 

What are your thoughts on the changes to Hypercrates and the addition of Supercrates? Do you feel they are worth their cost? Do you enjoy opening them? If so, what do you enjoy most? If not, what do you like least?

I don't know about Supercrates, they don't interest me.

The Underworld Alliance Hypercrates were not enjoyable for me to open. Too many felt like they were a single decoration + rank 5 companion gift. And normally when I open 2 hypercrates, I feel like I have just 5 or 6 things to search for on the GTN. This time... I completed just one set of armor. And there are 2 sets of multi-million credit armor, the 10s of millions Akk Dog, and 2 or 3 ships of 1mil + cost. That's a lot of incredibly rare items for me to miss with 2 hypercrates.

 

Are you more or less likely to purchase packs from the Market and why?

I'm less inclined to buy in the future. The sensation of gambling wasn't there. Just the loss of getting a single decoration from about half the packs.

 

Can you share any experiences or first impressions you’ve had with the new pack structure?

The structure of gold/silver packs and grand packs of all prior stuff seemed easy to understand.

However, the concept behind grand packs of all pets - it makes me feel like I should never open a hypercrate and get a pet in it; because it'd be cheaper for me to just buy pet-crates. And it'd be wiser for me to wait to buy pet crates until I have missed many shipments of packs. Since the pet crates will have ALL prior pets. There is no urgency for me to collect things from specific categories. In fact; I'm rewarded to delay collecting with that structure.