Why I Think KotFE Ruined SWTOR

[AlaricSevGirl]

Actually we have seen it before. More powerful in fact. From their father.

 

Genetics bro.

 

Really, unless Valkorian made all the knights, every one of them and Senya too, this is totally unbelievable and terrible writing. I unsubbed but I have a couple of weeks left of which I won't be in the game. The Austin team needs to travel to Montreal or Edmonton to figure out how to write a good story because they have no idea how it's done.

Edited September 1, 2016 by AlaricSevGirl

[CorellianWannabe]

So how many midichlorians is Vaylin supposed to have? Over 9000?

 

What is it about Star Wars that requires hack writers to create ever 'bigger and badder' threats? Are they deliberately attempting to downplay the accomplishments of the films (the Emperor's lightning never even killed anyone, and Vader couldn't defeat a half-trained Jedi whelp, and neither of them ate a planet) or are they simply too in love with their pet NPCs to consider such trivialities?

 

Arcann makes Vader look like a level 12 Darth Baras, and Valkorion makes Ben Kenobi seem like a mute.

[nhsknudsen]

Pardon the necro, but found this post through google search and wanted to express my opinion without making a new thread.

 

I have been away for a very long time, recently resubbed and found that my last used credit card expired somewhere in 2013.

I won't presume to say much to all you true veterans of the game out there, but the recent story is a major disappointment. Not so much for the whole republic / empire having to work together or being outright destroyed (but yes that is bad as well)

 

However I feel like little more than a sidecharacter in the recent story. Yes BW tries to make me the chosen one but ultimately it feels more like Valorion's family story where I am merely there to produce a POV for the TV viewer.

 

I am a side character in my own story. Doing fetch quests and errands for the storys true protagonists.

 

Yes I did fetch quests as an apprentice too, as an apprentice, but I was supposed to be (story wise) one of biggest baddest sith lords in existence at the end of my story.

Now I am reduced to deliver socks to some Javas buddy or watch as Arcann have to take everything out of my control in a cutscene, stab me in said cutscene, flee and call it a win despite never bringing me below 95% health in the mentioned fight before the cutscene began.

 

I feel like a minion.

 

And I will bet you we can't make a grand betrayal at the end of the story.

[Sandreid]

Apologies for another necro, but I just finished the story, and I wish I could say that I was disappointed, but that would imply that I had high hopes to begin with. I had pretty much the opposite. All the plotholes created within the 1st chapter alone was enough to make me rant for hours on end about how nothing made any sense, and how the whole story was essentially just pulled out of BioWare's behind.

 

But despite all this, I still came back, hoping that there might be some answers to all this Valkorian nonsense, and watching the Betrayed-trailer (Which is absolutely beautiful and brilliant btw) kinda made me think that they maybe, just MAYBE, could get the story to work, by the end. But no - All we got for the entirety of the Valkorian-plot was "You are ready".

 

...

 

REALLY?! That's not good enough! That's cheap! Dirty and cheap - ****** cliffhanger, too! So I have to buy another expansion to get your bs answers, from your bs story? No, piss off. The story looked rotten the moment I got into it and it was rotten throughout. Don't even get me started on the joke that you call gameplay with hallways with groups of 3 skytroopers over, and over, and over, and over, who die if you even as much as just look at them. And I'm still waiting for all the "consequences" for my choices. The gameplay is just like the story: A joke.

 

So in case you're wondering, BioWare: No, I'm not going to buy your next expansion, or the one after it for that matter. I'm done, and you done ****ed it up. Can only say I 100% agree with everything said by OP. It's spot on.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Sandreid

[americanaussie]

You don't buy expansions...

[Nothing_Shines]

No sub - no expansion. So, yes, you do buy the expansions when they're new. And F2P are pretty boned with the new endgame.

 

Anyway, I forgot all about this thread and how long it got. OP had some good points, as did lots of people throughout. After KOTFE's story, my expectations for KOTET's couldn't be lower, so at least I won't be disappointed on that front. The changes to the mechanics of the game itself look pretty awful, though, which sucks, since I've always been able to at least enjoy playing the game regardless of the continuing storylines.

 

I'm picturing a train wreck, but who knows, right? (I mean we know - but let's pretend there's a chance it will turn out ok.)

 

RNG, though - am I right? Awful.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Nothing_Shines

[Krazhez]

"Shouldn’t taking down Arcann, or Baras, or Thanaton, or any other boss give you a sense of accomplishment!"

 

I miss when those fights were at least a little challenging, needing to interrupt and at least somewhat think. Ran an inquisitor again, not too long ago, and was so sad that all thanaton did was force storm and a channel death field.

[Aeneas_Falco]

"Shouldn’t taking down Arcann, or Baras, or Thanaton, or any other boss give you a sense of accomplishment!"

 

I miss when those fights were at least a little challenging, needing to interrupt and at least somewhat think. Ran an inquisitor again, not too long ago, and was so sad that all thanaton did was force storm and a channel death field.

 

T7 can now solo the Emperor in the Jedi Knight class story.

 

The most powerful force user in the entire setting...can now get dropped by a lowly astromech droid. No wonder he hauled jets to Zakuul. The shame was too great.

 

They really need to do something about the nerf bat that was taken to class story bosses.

[americanaussie]

No sub - no expansion. So, yes, you do buy the expansions when they're new. And F2P are pretty boned with the new endgame.

 

Anyway, I forgot all about this thread and how long it got. OP had some good points, as did lots of people throughout. After KOTFE's story, my expectations for KOTET's couldn't be lower, so at least I won't be disappointed on that front. The changes to the mechanics of the game itself look pretty awful, though, which sucks, since I've always been able to at least enjoy playing the game regardless of the continuing storylines.

 

I'm picturing a train wreck, but who knows, right? (I mean we know - but let's pretend there's a chance it will turn out ok.)

 

RNG, though - am I right? Awful.

 

No. There's far more to the game than KOTFE, or any expansion really. A sub buys more characters, warzones, end game content, ops, and I could keep going. It doesn't -just- buy the expac. There are subs who don't play the story.

As for the RNG, we will have to see. I'm not picturing a train wreck but I understand how the debbie downers of the world need to so that it'll give them something to do - complain.

[AllisonLightning]

T7 can now solo the Emperor in the Jedi Knight class story.

 

The most powerful force user in the entire setting...can now get dropped by a lowly astromech droid. No wonder he hauled jets to Zakuul. The shame was too great.

 

They really need to do something about the nerf bat that was taken to class story bosses.

 

Seriously- the Sith Emperor fight made me such an interrupt dork last year it's not funny- T7 was in heals mode and was not soloing anything. It also wasn't at a great influence level either so doubly painful and I did that fight 4.0, pre companion nerf after expansion drop. There's a genuine issue with bosses leveled down to starter worlds with level sync and then there is overtuning bosses to make up for a player's level.

 

A new player who doesn't know the tricks, doesn't overlevel content (and yes, unless you're trying it is very easy to only be 50-55 when you hit endgame) or have unlocks does have trouble on the Sith Emperor. I only set companions in DPS mode when I'm playing a Tank where a fight clearly has a DPS check or as a healer.

 

Thanaton and Baras have the problem where you can dismiss your companion and beat them solo and with the basic attack key and we don't even know if they're getting fixed in 5.0.

[LastBrood]

Yeah, I hope they try and do something about the bosses in the class stories.

 

I don't mind the level sync in the planet but I hope they make the mission phases have their own levels of difficulties. Maybe it takes resources from their planned expansion or something but couldn't they bring back the difficulty of the old time to within the phases for simpler solution.

[Nothing_Shines]

No. There's far more to the game than KOTFE, or any expansion really. A sub buys more characters, warzones, end game content, ops, and I could keep going. It doesn't -just- buy the expac. There are subs who don't play the story.

As for the RNG, we will have to see. I'm not picturing a train wreck but I understand how the debbie downers of the world need to so that it'll give them something to do - complain.

 

If you can't play the expansion without subbing, then the expansion isn't free. Pretty basic concept. No way around it. Doesn't matter what else comes with the sub.

 

I can't go on Space Mountain at Disney World without buying a ticket for the park. I don't pay for the ride at the ride. I pay at the park entrance. That ride ain't free, yo.

 

White knight more, though. White knight RNG, because that's a cause worth championing.

 

Endgame Gearing Slot Machine - it's gonna be great!

[Speedwash]

Since this thread is back up, going to piggy back my own little rant here, since it echos most of what the OP pointed out, and save a forum thread tree.

 

Not quite done with the KotFE story, but I can say I've never been so less engaged by a story in SWTOR (and that includes the cluster that was the last chapter of the Agent). I just don't even feel it is my characters story - it is the . And the companions? If I had a say in the choice, maybe one would be on the ship/in my alliance. One moment I'm making choices that basically say "Heck no, this person is NOT going with us - get out of here", then next scene I'm supposed to be all chummy and nice to them and feel like they have an emotional impact on my life? Thank goodness for T7 - even better if you are a knight, get all that influence back.

Speaking of 'my' alliance - it's not mine, it's Lana's alliance, she recruited it and I get to be the figurehead whether I want to be or not. The members and choices are all hers and Senya's, go long for the ride. Sadly, going to be stuck with them for the long haul it appears.

 

And it is a ride, my character is nothing - just a ragdoll to be thrown around (literally in a couple cases) as it fits the story of a troubled force family with daddy issues. You were a powerful Jedi earlier? Not now - everyone is stronger and will toss you around like a used up wash rag. Choices? Make them - it will fit the plan anyway.

 

Rant over - but seriously, does it get any more engaging? I'm at Chapter 11 and with only 16 available...

[Rasinator]

Since this thread is back up, going to piggy back my own little rant here, since it echos most of what the OP pointed out, and save a forum thread tree.

 

Not quite done with the KotFE story, but I can say I've never been so less engaged by a story in SWTOR (and that includes the cluster that was the last chapter of the Agent). I just don't even feel it is my characters story - it is the . And the companions? If I had a say in the choice, maybe one would be on the ship/in my alliance. One moment I'm making choices that basically say "Heck no, this person is NOT going with us - get out of here", then next scene I'm supposed to be all chummy and nice to them and feel like they have an emotional impact on my life? Thank goodness for T7 - even better if you are a knight, get all that influence back.

Speaking of 'my' alliance - it's not mine, it's Lana's alliance, she recruited it and I get to be the figurehead whether I want to be or not. The members and choices are all hers and Senya's, go long for the ride. Sadly, going to be stuck with them for the long haul it appears.

 

And it is a ride, my character is nothing - just a ragdoll to be thrown around (literally in a couple cases) as it fits the story of a troubled force family with daddy issues. You were a powerful Jedi earlier? Not now - everyone is stronger and will toss you around like a used up wash rag. Choices? Make them - it will fit the plan anyway.

 

Rant over - but seriously, does it get any more engaging? I'm at Chapter 11 and with only 16 available...

 

I couldn't agree more honestly. When I saw Darth Marr and Satele in a scene It was over for me. I only have 1 60 token toon who is even involved w/ Kotfe. After seeing the scene I laid it ALL to rest. Now I am just playing the same old content since Feb 2013.

[JabbaWabbA]

Since this thread is back up, going to piggy back my own little rant here, since it echos most of what the OP pointed out, and save a forum thread tree.

 

Not quite done with the KotFE story, but I can say I've never been so less engaged by a story in SWTOR (and that includes the cluster that was the last chapter of the Agent). I just don't even feel it is my characters story - it is the . And the companions? If I had a say in the choice, maybe one would be on the ship/in my alliance. One moment I'm making choices that basically say "Heck no, this person is NOT going with us - get out of here", then next scene I'm supposed to be all chummy and nice to them and feel like they have an emotional impact on my life? Thank goodness for T7 - even better if you are a knight, get all that influence back.

Speaking of 'my' alliance - it's not mine, it's Lana's alliance, she recruited it and I get to be the figurehead whether I want to be or not. The members and choices are all hers and Senya's, go long for the ride. Sadly, going to be stuck with them for the long haul it appears.

 

And it is a ride, my character is nothing - just a ragdoll to be thrown around (literally in a couple cases) as it fits the story of a troubled force family with daddy issues. You were a powerful Jedi earlier? Not now - everyone is stronger and will toss you around like a used up wash rag. Choices? Make them - it will fit the plan anyway.

 

Rant over - but seriously, does it get any more engaging? I'm at Chapter 11 and with only 16 available...

 

story is lame and it is a gigantic waste of resources

[CorellianWannabe]

Since this thread is back up, going to piggy back my own little rant here, since it echos most of what the OP pointed out, and save a forum thread tree.

 

Not quite done with the KotFE story, but I can say I've never been so less engaged by a story in SWTOR (and that includes the cluster that was the last chapter of the Agent). I just don't even feel it is my characters story - it is the . And the companions? If I had a say in the choice, maybe one would be on the ship/in my alliance. One moment I'm making choices that basically say "Heck no, this person is NOT going with us - get out of here", then next scene I'm supposed to be all chummy and nice to them and feel like they have an emotional impact on my life? Thank goodness for T7 - even better if you are a knight, get all that influence back.

Speaking of 'my' alliance - it's not mine, it's Lana's alliance, she recruited it and I get to be the figurehead whether I want to be or not. The members and choices are all hers and Senya's, go long for the ride. Sadly, going to be stuck with them for the long haul it appears.

 

And it is a ride, my character is nothing - just a ragdoll to be thrown around (literally in a couple cases) as it fits the story of a troubled force family with daddy issues. You were a powerful Jedi earlier? Not now - everyone is stronger and will toss you around like a used up wash rag. Choices? Make them - it will fit the plan anyway.

 

Rant over - but seriously, does it get any more engaging? I'm at Chapter 11 and with only 16 available...

 

You'll really dislike chapter 12 then.. everything you dislike in the story and more, especially if your character doesn't use the Force.

[Ralei]

Valkorion/Vitiate has never made any sense to me and I doubt it ever will. I'm just going to ignore it from now on, because it makes me angry irl. I usually let poor writing go and just shrug, but the importance of Valk/Vit is too much for me. I wish that the Emperor had been banished for good or come back stronger than ever. None of this weird dualism **** that threatens the integrity of every story told in the Old Republic era.

 

Maybe Valkorion was a different person and was recently possessed by Vitiate and we're all being bamboozled?

 

At this point, I don't care what happens during Kotet, I care about where it leaves us going forward. I want the focus back on Empire vs Republic and I want the state of the galaxy back to where it was pre Kotfe.

 

I'll (sith warrior) either take the Zakuul throne and incorporate it into my new Empire or it'll burn. The Alliance that Lana built will either follow me or will burn. All the generic, jumbled-named aliens that I had to acquiesce to will bow or burn.

[Nothing_Shines]

Vote Darth Ralei for God-Emperor!

 

You're either with him or you BURN!

 

I'm with you on moving past Zakuul and getting back to Empire v Republic. I really wish the Dread Masters or Terror-dominated Gree or Rakata freed on Tatooine and Belsavis had been the new big bads that could have been better integrated into the existing balance of power. Inserting a completely unheard of fanfic third party enemy is beyond tiring. It reminds me of a neophyte GM trying to make the setting his own by knocking down established canon to pump up his Mary Sue big bad he spent all weekend statting out.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Nothing_Shines

[Tippor]

I agree with a lot of that OP.

 

I don't think it's ruined SWTOR for me, but it definitely has destroyed any kind of motivation I had for continuing through that expansion and into KotET. But, honestly, we started down this road in Revan. Making dark, light, Republic, Empire completely useless. This game does not need, nor does it benefit from cross faction teaming.

 

I was so angry with KotFE and how it ruined the story and feel for me that I rerolled all of my characters on another server and abandoned the ones I had. Only one character I have now will ever go through KotFE and only for one reason. After taht I'm washing my hands of both of these expansions. I won't quit over it, but the next expansion had better drop this one size fits all, cross faction nonsense or I just won't play through it and will ignore it like it didn't exist.

[AshenK]

story is lame and it is a gigantic waste of resources

this right here.

 

if people want story they can go play one of the billion single player wrpgs that are boring. i'm an mmo player i want hard content that takes me and my friends months to get done with.

[Nightblazer]

this right here.

 

if people want story they can go play one of the billion single player wrpgs that are boring. i'm an mmo player i want hard content that takes me and my friends months to get done with.

 

Other mmos have a story. Look at wow. Just because it's an mmo doesn't mean it can't have a story

Edited November 21, 2016 by Nightblazer

[Tippor]

this right here.

 

if people want story they can go play one of the billion single player wrpgs that are boring. i'm an mmo player i want hard content that takes me and my friends months to get done with.

 

 

The problem is, SWTOR is a single player RPG that was shoehorned into the MMO genre. It has proven that it can not, realistically, be both an RPG and an MMO. I completely understand the people on both sides of this issue. On one hand, people like me, who wish this was a single player RPG with DLCs. We have no need of MMO elements because we don't use them. And, people like you and the guy you quoted, who are MMO players and want MMO elements. Sadly for both sides, SWTOR can not do both because it doesn't have the manpower to do so, now anyway.

[JabbaWabbA]

We have no need of MMO elements because we don't use them. .

 

lolz spoken like a true casual

[YlliyaXor]

The problem with group content is the short scope, if the game is still around in 10 years i can still play the single player content, but the group content will be useless unless i happen to have at least 3 other people who want to play exactly the same things i want to, that is just not going to happen.

 

2 hrs worth of single player content will be more content to do, that will be around as long as the game is around, 4 hrs worth of group content are abandonware as soon as a significant number of the current participants are done with it, everytime anyone says they are tired of doing the same old ops they are giving the devs good reason not to make new ones, after all if there isn't a single op that you still like/want to do what's the point of making new ones that you would get tired of just as quickly?

 

About KOTFE, i think the main problem is the design, in SWTOR terms KOTFE is a very unstanced planetary story, where you can't skip anything and always have to do things in the same order, and most people find the planetary stories boring once they do them a few times, in the class stories we have a feeling of freedom, i can go to NS or Taris, i can choose whether to run around with a Trandoshan hunter or a pacifist scientist, i can be a goody two shoes, a douchebag or something in between, also if i'm done being a republic consular i can switch it up and be a republic trooper or even go imperial and be a smuggler or a Sith warrior, none of these choices are present in KOTFE, they gave us the aspect of the game we like the least.

 

The story while not really my favourite isn't that bad, if you could have the Sith being absorbed by the Eternal Empire (or even being the Eternal Empire since they share the same emperor), the story would be fine, more or less, the imperials would play from the perspective of Zakuul, invading, enslaving, mass killing, the whole Sith thing (or at least the only part of it anyone seem to be interested in), while the republic would play the usual underdog fighting against the odds, it wouldn't stop the whole thing from feeling like a giant mandatory flashpoint, but at least the story would be more palatable.

[Masteries]

To me, I feel that KotFE and KotET were great set ups and definitely had a good flow for being something epic. But I also have a few issues with it. The biggest one is that the story lines were basically force sensitive based, forcing all classes to go down a single path that really only works for jedi and sith. Bioware should of created two seperate storylines that affected each other, but had one chunk be for jedi/sith, the other for the non force sensitive characters. Next are the companion choices, and how they decided to add certain companions from some classes, yet leave out companions that were important to this story (Kira and Scourge being the prime examples since they were directly affected by the Sith Emperor, so they wouldn't of just ignored his presence, they would of been the first to go and challenge it). Instead, we get Scorpio (which I guess makes sense do to the main outcome of the story), Kalio (which should of been Kira/Scourge), etc. Finally my main issue was that they gave us control of the eternal empire, which really does lock our characters into this role that doesn't feel right story wise. With what our characters went through, I can understand the whole big mighty "strongest beings in the galaxy", but that's shotty story telling. It should of been our characters being one of many generals dealing with this massive threat, but not making us the sole focus. Make it to where we're important enough to save from carbonite, but not big enough to be Valkorian powerful (he should of remained an ops boss as the final lead in instead of just a boss for solo play, and also he wouldn't of had this much focus on smugglers, troopers, bounty hunters, and imperial agents do to lacking the force to truly be powerful enough, thus again needing a separate story for these classes were definitely needed).

 

I feel that the next expansion needs to go back to the Empire vs the Republic, making that the main focus as we return to Jedi vs Sith. This is what the game currently lacks and it feels bland because we don't have that opposition anymore since now we have both factions working together under the Eternal Throne banner in a singular alliance. Hell, make this experience a reason to add faction swtich, where a jedi can become a fallen jedi, a sith can become a reformed force user, republic bounty hunters, smugglers turned pirate, republic spies, imperial troopers. Make this a vocal point in which we make a major decision (make it after the eternal throne loses all support from the galaxy from the issues it caused, thus removing us from this power) and make it to where our decision will thus change our character's faction forever, leaving the same powers they've had, but adding new powers that will add lightside to lightning or darkside to the sage powers. Just we need to regain that opposition if this game is going to thrive again, also add a few new ops since that's really lacking currently.