Why I Think KotFE Ruined SWTOR

[uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu]

No, I meant if you avoid being impaled by using V's power (either by choosing this time or by choosing too many times before, so V chooses for you), so you are merely a bit battered and drained, she says the same thing.

 

I'm often wondering how things would be going different in the story of Id played different. Annoying because I have to play through an entire new character to see. Plus the whole story seems weird through my sorcerers eyes I think it'd make more sense for a Jedi than a sith. Can't see my Sorceror taking the kind of **** from Jorgan that ive been forced to endure without snapping him like a twig

[SteveTheCynic]

Huh? But I wasn't beaten by him? And I refused valkorions power don't like being manipulated haha. Arcann beat me in the sense that the cutscene made him beat me but I was kicking his *** in actual gameplay

Yeah, I had that on my trooper. I had refined her rotation sufficiently and had good enough gear that I was wearing him down piece by piece. If he hadn't suddenly started channelling Deus Ex Machina Man, I'd have eventually finished him off. And it happened effing TWICE! Of all the criticisms of the storytelling in KotFE, I think this one is the most pertinent.

[MaximumOwnage]

Why I think Knights of the Fallen Empire Ruined SWTOR

 

(for the time being, at least)

 

(Note to those who find all of the colors obnoxious: Version without all the bright colors and other theatrics in second post of thread)

 

NOTE: TL;DR’s are available at the end of each Spoiler Tag.

 

After logging into 4.0, testing out the changes, playing through the Fallen Empire storyline twice (testing out the different choices that supposedly "matter"), and then letting it marinate for a couple days, I’ve come to realize, SWTOR, in all likelihood, has been ruined for me. For someone who has been with the game since its launch, and has put several hundred hours (who knows how much precisely, counting up all of the “/played’s” for all my characters would be a real chore!) into the game, I have a certain emotional connection to it (after all, how can someone devote hundreds of hours to something and not form some sort of attachment to it), and now so suddenly I realize why there are so many people who feel the need to make “I’m canceling my sub” posts. Well, I’ll try my best to try not to do that, as, after all, I’m likely not cancelling my sub nor leaving the game outright. This (very, very long) post will be a review of sorts of Fallen Empire, and why I think it ruined SWTOR for me.

 

I know what kind of reaction these super long posts usually get (sarcasm, apathy, or simply none), and I go forward with the assumption very few will actually read what I have to say.

 

OTHER NOTE: Spoilers, of course. I will be talking about class stories, expansion stories, etc.

 

Without further ado, I’ll begin.

 

#1 The Skippable Preface: Why do I play SWTOR in the first place?

 

Put simply, I love Star Wars. I’ve been a fan since the original trilogy, but I was more a participant in the cultural phenomenon than a true diehard fan. I loved the movies of course, but I didn’t, for instance, have Star Wars posters, memorabilia, books, countless video, board, and card games, and toys infesting my house like I do now. You know what sparked that transition from the casual to the hardcore? Interestingly enough, it began with Bioware with Knights of the Old Republic. However my fandom didn’t fully emerge from the cocoon until Obsidian’s sequel, The Sith Lords. Maybe it’s the decade of nostalgia that now separates me from my first play through of those games, but I view them with a sense of legend. To me (who had ignored decades of EU Books that likely could’ve started that transition years earlier) they evolved Star Wars from the setting of some damn good films (and some mediocre ones) to a mythology whose size, versatility and capacity for “epicness” is, in my opinion, unrivaled by any fictional creation of modern mankind. I love Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, Star Trek, and (insert many fantasy and sci-fi book series here), but, in my mind, they do not compare.

 

So, naturally, I was going to play SWTOR. Another Star Wars game, set in the Old Republic era made by Bioware with a multi-hundred million dollar budget? I was bursting to get in the door. I was there in the beta, early access, founder title and all that jazz. I played the game for years, and while to some extent I was mildly disappointed in its lacking of KOTOR qualities, I didn’t listen to much of the complaints people had about the game. After all, no dual-spec, limited guild functionality, copy and paste combat system etc. etc. etc.…. That didn’t matter to someone like me. I had never played WoW (or any other major MMO), and didn’t really care too much about the quality or quantity of traditional MMO features. I was here simply for the Star Wars Story.

Jedi vs. Sith! Empire vs. Republic! The mystery of the Sith Emperor! The return of Revan (as divisive as that was)! This is what kept my money and time flowing into SWTOR.

 

Some of you can see where this is going, I’m sure.

 

TL;DR Version: I play SWTOR because it’s Star Wars, and for the Story.

 

 

#2 The Meat and Potatoes: Why do I think the game is ruined?

 

 

#2a The Meat and Potatoes Part One: It’s all for naught.

 

In case you missed it, I play SWTOR for Star Wars, and for the story. Accordingly, I feel like Knights of the Fallen Empire ruined SWTOR’s story, and its Star Wars elements, and therefore has essentially destroyed my reason to play the game. But how did KotFE ruin SWTOR’s story? Well, let me explain.

 

First, and in my opinion, most important, it made everything that has happened thus far not only in the entirety of SWTOR, but even going back to KOTOR totally pointless and irrelevant. That might sound like a stretch, but I really don’t think it is, and here’s why.

 

Throughout the history of SWTOR, we’ve seen our characters face hardship, grow and develop, and ultimately triumph in the face of opposition. We’ve seen them form relationships with characters, grow their own powerbases, protect planets from utter destruction or dominion of the Empire, conquer planets in the name of the Empire, protect their own factions from utter collapse, and even, on a few occasions, saved the galaxy as a whole!

 

I (and I’m sure many others) have grown attached to our characters and their respective factions that we have spent years with. Now, all of that has been totally and seemingly irrevocably undone.

 

A new incredibly randomly and OP as hell faction suddenly invades the galaxy while our characters are in a coma, making the Jedi, the Sith, the Republic, the Empire, and every single accomplishment our characters made either completely pointless and irrelevant. Congratulations, Bioware… in my eyes you just made years of your own writing meaningless. In a tragic turn of events, everything I’ve done through my characters in this universe has been destroyed…. None of it matters. My companions, power base, and entire faction is gone, all because of an incredibly sudden and somehow secret faction that just randomly appeared.

 

Kephess could have won, Revan could have won, the Hutts could have won, the Dread Masters could have won, and our characters could never have even existed and the galaxy would be totally the same: controlled by The New OP Empire.

 

Ultimately, everything that has happened in SWTOR has become one big farce of pointlessness. Jedi? Sith? The Light and Dark Side of the Force? You know, STAR WARS at its very core? They've all become powerless and irrelevant.

Bear with me here, as I use an analogy: What if this happened in Lord of the Rings? You've watched Frodo grow and change through his long and arduous journey, and he is on the verge of destroying the ring at Mount Doom, all the while a cast of memorable characters (Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas, etc.) and the men of the west fight valiantly against the evil forces of Sauron. Suddenly, Frodo (and by extension the audience) enters a coma, only to wake up 5 years later to find an army of invincible Valkyrie have invaded Middle Earth, defeated Rohan, Gondor, the Dwarves, the Elves, and Sauron and his horde of minions to establish a new Empire. It would kind of defeat the purpose of Frodo's quest, and therefore the Lord of the Rings Books themselves.

 

Now, you may be thinking: Well, it was already pointless! We already know the Republic falls to Palpatine, and then the Rebels win, etc. and so forth!

 

But there is a key difference: time.

 

The difference being is that Palpatine and friends is millennia in the future. Our characters are long, long dead, so of course their accomplishments have faded in importance. In this expansion, our characters are very much alive, and in the prime of their importance, only to see their accomplishments, relationships, powerbases, and factions, and ultimately most everything they've been working towards obliterated instantly in front of their faces.

 

Using my Lord of the Rings analogy, if we knew Sauron returned 2 thousand years later, that doesn't mean Frodo's quest was pointless, as his destruction of Sauron lasted for 2 thousand years. However, if we see Sauron get defeated by a random army of Valkyrie before Frodo even finishes his quest, then it is all pointless because he didn't even enact much change at all.

 

Same thing here in SWTOR. We see our character's grow and change, and work towards a steady goal (the success of their faction most commonly), only to see it be erased randomly while they're in a coma just moments after it happened.

 

Put simply, a few thousand years of impact means a lot, but a year or two doesn't mean much at all.

Ultimately, and put dramatically, Valkorion’s destruction of the Sith Empire and Republic is directly analogous to Bioware’s destruction of the relevance of their own story.

 

You might also be saying: Well, our characters are still alive, because of what they did, therefore it isn't all pointless! Well, you are somewhat right, but that only lends to new meaning being created in the future:the deeds and the inherent value of our actions in the past are still completely erased.

 

To use another analogy: Let's say you founded a nation, and saved 100,000 people in the process. But the next day, an infinite army of tanks rolls, killing all 100,000 people and destroying and conquering the country, but you alone were able to escape.

 

Does your physical survival mean that your actions in saving those people who died the next day and founding that country that was destroyed the next day matter at all in the grand scheme of things?

 

No, they're all still dead, and the country is still destroyed.

 

But what about the story still to come? Well, it’s hard to feel invested and care at all, given that everything I’ve invested and cared about before has been basically destroyed. Everything that’s happened…. Even going back all the way to KOTOR (what a tragedy that is), or hell, the Great Hyperspace War has been made irrelevant in favor of the random and all too uninteresting “Eternal Empire,” shattering my emotional connection and interest in general.

 

TL;DR Version: By destroying the Republic, Jedi, Sith, and Empire, our characters actions and history has been made irrelevant, destroying any interest or emotional investment the game had acquired over the years.

 

 

#2b The Meat and Potatoes Part Two: The Puppet Paradox (ie None of this makes any sense!).

 

 

There’s another insidious aspect to this however, and that is this: the story makes absolutely zero sense as presented by Bioware.

 

See, just because things got erased doesn't necessarily mean the story is ruined. Take a look at things like Game of Thrones or certain tragedies. Things get erased and made irrelevant, and yet it's still a very good story. Why? Because everything that happens makes sense, and the climax, even if it doesn't go the protagonist's way, is still a satisfying culmination of long running conflicts that play out the way they do due to key components of things like the character's choices, character's flaws, major plot components, etc. KotFE is missing this entirely. What does any of what my Smuggler did, any of what my Bounty Hunter did, any of what my Jedi Consular did have to do with the invasion of the Infinite Fleet?

 

In KotFE, it's not just that previous things are made irrelevant, it's also the fact that they were ultimately sacrificed for a story that is nonsensical and unsatisfying, and one that really ultimately has very little to do with anything that came before it, making the whole thing seem pointless.

 

So.... why do I think the story makes no sense?

 

Well, It simply makes no sense that Valkorion and Vitiate are the same person. Valkorion and the Eternal Empire run directly opposing Vitiate and his storyline in what I call the “Puppet Paradox.” The Puppet Paradox is thus: Vitiate is simultaneously the puppet-master, and the puppet.

 

To explain, we must begin at the beginning of Vitiate’s story: The Great Hyperspace War. For those who don’t know, this was essentially a giant conflict with the early Sith and Jedi, which Vitiate was alive and part of as a minor Sith Lord. Eventually the Sith were defeated, and Vitiate and a cadre of Sith retreated outside the known Galaxy (to Dromuund Kaas) to lick their wounds, recuperate, and ultimately seek revenge.

 

Fast forward 1000 years, skipping Revan, KOTORs 1 and 2, Exar Kun, Mandalorion Wars, etc. to the return of Vitiate Empire (the ‘Return’ trailer). There’s a war between them and the Republic/Jedi, and then SWTOR as we know it takes place.

 

And then, Knights of the Fallen Empire.

 

You mean to tell me Vitiate has *another* secret Empire!? From where? Since when? How!? This one is even more powerful than the other one? In fact so powerful that it can conquer the Republic and Sith Empire both incredibly easily within the matter of a year or two!?

 

Hold up…. What!? Here is where the Puppet Paradox comes into play. Vitiate is simultaneously the puppet (his Sith Empire invading the Republic to weaken both of them) and the puppet master (the Eternal Empire arriving to conquer both).

 

Why the hell does he invade the galaxy with his secret Empire so that he can ultimately weaken his own Empire so that his *other* secret and even more powerful Empire can conquer his old Empire…? What? Why doesn’t he just invade with BOTH of his Empire’s and end the war (or slaughter) that much faster? Or just have put all of his effort into his better Empire from the start?

 

If the answer is because his new Empire (the Eternal Empire) wasn’t ready until very recently, why didn’t he just wait a few decades so he didn’t have to destroy his Sith Empire? He’s already waited over a millennium, so a couple decades should be like a blink for Vitiate.

 

Overall there are just so many unanswered questions that cause all of the various plots Bioware has put forth to compound upon one another into a cyclone of nonsense:

Why did he let the Empire fail if he had an invincible fleet? Why didn't he just put all of his effort into his one (better Empire)? Why did he spend centuries working with one Empire if he had a better one? Why did he wait until just now to invade with his "better" Empire? Why did he need the original Empire at all if he had a better one? How did he get Zakuul? How did he get the Infinite Fleet? For how long did he have these? Why was the fleet never used before Vitiate had it? How did he keep all of this secret from everyone in the galaxy? Why, if he is a Sith, did he suddenly turn his back on the Sith Code and the Sith Empire in favor for what ever kind of Force user he is now? And if the force users of Zakuul are so powerful but don't use either the Light or Dark Side, why does that dichotomy even exist in the rest of Star Wars? If his goal was to just cause as much prolonged conflict in the galaxy, why did he suddenly choose to end it by conquering everything so swiftly with the Infinite Fleet? What about his desire to consume all life in the galaxy? Why does he seemingly no longer care about this? Why, if he was about to invade the galaxy, did he destroy Ziost?

 

 

And what explanation do we get for Vitiate's shifting motivations? Apparently, the Outlander has "merited [Valkorion's] full attention in all his centuries," and everything else was a "means to an end." (quotes from him in Chapter 1). Wait... what!? Why? Because the Outlander vaguely "leaves his mark upon the galaxy" (another quote)? You're telling me that Vitiate, throughout his 1,300 years of empire building, proxy warring, world devouring, and galactic conquering has been solely focused on the attention of my flirtatious, credit loving Smuggler (who wasn't even born yet for most to that time)!? Are you telling me that my smuggler somehow shapes the galaxy more than Satele, or Revan, or Marr, Saresh, of Malak, or Exar Kun, or any other prominent galactic leader in the entire 1,300 years of Vitiate's life? My Trooper? My Bounty Hunter?

 

Apparently, Vitiate has such a gigantic crush on my illegal goods transporter that he is more focused on him (centuries before he's born) than he is on his multiple empires, huge militaries, wars of a galactic scale etc... Is this the answer Bioware provides us for these huge inconsistencies with Vitiate's character? Because the "Outlander" is some destiny defying chosen one with no explanation given as to how or why? Ultimately, it's poor writing, and I don't buy it at all.

 

The great tragedy here is that even KOTOR itself is rendered nonsensical. What was the point of waiting for over a millenium, seducing Revan and Malak to create a proxy war, and then fighting the Republic for several decades with his one Empire when he had the capability to conquer the entire galaxy in a year or two with his invincible fleet and *other * secret Empire? Apparently, it was all some centuries long ploy with millions of casualties all so Vitiate could... erm.... get intimate with my smuggler...?

 

Ultimately, as Bioware has presented it, the story makes no sense, and is going to need some major plot voodoo to make it all make sense.

 

TL;DR Version: Vitiate and Valkorion being the same person doesn’t make sense. Why did he put hundreds and hundreds of years into growing the Sith Empire if he thought it was a flawed society and had a better and exponentially more powerful one? In other (but similar) words, the story makes no sense as it is presented.

 

 

EDIT: #2c The Meat and Potatoes Part Three: Goodbye Star Wars.

 

 

So, if you’ve read up to this point, you might very well disagree with my assessments of the story. You could see the story as making total and utter sense, as well as not making everything that came before it pointless.

 

And yet, even if you convinced me of those two things, deep down I would still feel the game was, on some level ruined, and here’s why.

 

Ultimately, I feel that the core feeling of “Star Wars” has just taken a large hit. This new storyline doesn’t feel like Star Wars to me. Why? Well...

 

In my eyes, Star Wars, at its very core, is the conflict between the Light and Dark Side of the Force. This struggle, which most commonly manifests as Jedi vs. Sith, or Empire vs. Republic/Rebels, is present in most every major Star Wars plot throughout the decades of its existence. And, even if a conflict in the lore wasn’t directly between a light side force user and a dark side force user, it still took place in the context of a galaxy as a whole divided between the two sides of the force.

 

And this is largely why I’ve stuck with SWTOR this long. Even though alot of the plots weren’t unique, or particularly well written, or all together very good, for the most part they totally nailed the feeling of Star Wars. And that’s all I ever needed.

(Note: There are also plenty of kick-*** and awesomely written stories that are unique and very good in this game too, just want to make that clear!)

 

Even with the Revan plotline, where the two factions came together, it still felt ultimately like Star Wars because at least the Jedi and Sith were still major players in the conflict.

 

But now? Goodbye Sith. Goodbye Empire. Goodbye Republic. Goodbye Jedi. They’ve all been swept to irrelevance by a galactic power that Bioware just (seemingly randomly) created that is indeed so powerful it can defeat everything Star Wars within the space of a few moments in the game. Hell, if this non-Jedi, non-Sith power is so superior, yet doesn’t rely on either the Light Side or Dark Side, then why the hell does that dichotomy even exist? If a single force user who is neither Sith nor Jedi can totally and swiftly conquer all the Sith and all the Jedi, then the whole Light side vs. Dark side struggle that has been going on for millennia past and future seem no longer crucial to the Star Wars Universe.

 

You see how this kind of goes against the lore of Star Wars? The Light and Dark Sides of the Force are supposed to be the most powerful things in the Galaxy, not the "Zakuul Side" or whatever it's called.

 

I want to see the pure hatred of the Sith go up against the calm clairvoyance of the Jedi! I want to see the imperfect democracy of the Republic face off against the ruthless fascism of the Empire! These are the stories we’ve had, and these are the stories I want to see more of, not some random “Eternal Empire” face off against the generic “Outlander.”

 

TL;DR By destroying the Sith and Jedi, the classic Light vs. Dark side story of Star Wars is erased, and the classic Star Wars feeling with it.

 

 

 

#3 The Extras: What about things that aren’t the Story?

 

 

So that’s a lot of talk about the story, and although the story means almost everything to me, what about the other stuff? SWTOR has a lot more in it than interactive cut scenes, after all. So, how did the changes in these parts of the game fare? Well, I’m not so qualified to say, as I don't spend as much time, focus, or invesment into it, but I’ll attempt to give my feedback.

 

First, and most importantly for me, the companions. This, in my eyes, was the biggest (besides what I’ve talked about in the Meat and Potatoes) failure of the new expansion. You know what was cool about the companions? They were unique! Everyone had their own strengths and weaknesses, their own cool abilities, and you could even give them their own cool stats (which brings forth a whole new set of strengths and weaknesses). Now, they are all the same. What is the point in recruiting "new" companions in the Alliance System when they have the same abilities, same stats, same crew skills ability, no interesting dialouge or quests like before, don't offer commentary in conversations, and are just a essentially a new cosmetic skin? Watch my menacing Dashade Khem Val stand on the brink of the action and toss heals in my direction. Witness 2V-R8 tank Darth Baras while my Sith Warrior watches in amusement. Gone are the days of my efforts paying off as I call up my geared as hell Corso to tank for my guild friends when we need a tank.

 

This lends well into my next problem: Somehow, the game has been made even easier… To the point of the game becoming a complete and utter joke. Need a super powerful companion to complete the game for you? Press a button. Need a level 60 to escape the hassle of playing the game? Press a button. Is Arcann proving to be a tense and close fight? Pop an emergency kolto station to heal to maximum health. Yes yes, I know some people want to just play the story and not have to deal with other things (me of all people should know this) but damn…. Don’t people want to have some sense of achievement when they win? Shouldn’t taking down Arcann, or Baras, or Thanaton, or any other boss give you a sense of accomplishment! Seeing your level ding to 60 should grant a sense of reward, instead you say “Well all those hours of playing gave me something I could have just pressed a button to receive instantly.” I don’t know…. I know I could be wrong on this cause people seem to love these changes making the game so laughably easy it’s a joke…. But deep down I remember the days of there being *some* necessity to use medpacs, or your heroic moment, or hell even dying and having to try again, as I frown in boredom as

 

The New Alliance Conversation was also a disappointment, but in no way a game breaker. When I first saw it (being as huge a fan as I am of KOTOR 1 & 2) I was really excited. That conversation system is much more conducive to more in-depth and therefore more fulfilling and interesting conversations. HOWEVER that's only the case because it allows more options in dialouge than just three and therefore branching conversations, thus more unique for each character and more compelling and in-depth. However that's not the case here... You only have 3-4 dialogue options anyway, and each one only gives you a short answer with limited ability to create a new path for the conversation. What was the point of including this new interface if conversations are going to work the exact same way? (Roughly 3 responses, each gets a similar answer each time anyway). And I didn't realize how spoiled I'd become by having full VO for my character. A lack of PC voice over in KOTOR 1 & 2 never bothered me, but now that PC VO in SWTOR, it's absence is jarring and a negative overall, and I think that's because of the lack of continuity. I'm willing to sacrifice my character's voice for more in depth and fulfilling conversations (although I'm probably in the minority there), but if we don't get those than what's the point? It's only negative, bringing nothing positive except cheap nostalgia.

What else? Level sync. Hell, crucify me right now, but I actually LIKE level sync. It makes lower level content interesting via a little added challenge! Or…. Well it would if there was any challenge present in the game. In any case, I feel it’s a step in the right direction, but totally contradicts all the other changes they’ve been making to make the game easy as hell.

 

Crafting I’ve never been much of a part of, so I can’t comment on that really.

Really, I’m pretty exhausted at this point, so I’m just going to wrap this whole thing up.

 

TL;DR Version: The game’s too easy (surprise surprise), companions are no longer unique, there’s no sense of accomplishment in general, and thus the game is neither engaging nor fun.

 

 

 

#4 The End: Is SWTOR over for me?

 

 

Here’s the really tragic part. Is SWTOR over for me? Well…..

 

No.

 

Unfortunately not. I’ve simply invested too much time, money, and most importantly, valuable emotional attachment to not only SWTOR, but KOTOR and the Old Republic Era of Star Wars as a whole to give up now. I simply, for my own sense of personal closure, need to see where the story is going. So, I will keep coming back, likely until SWTOR’s funding gets cut and its servers get shut down for good. After years of playing, hundreds of dollars spent, and countless fond memories of stock striking a Sith Lord I just pulled out of the air, hunting down a Jedi through the snows of Hoth, or flirting with every girl in sight with my dashing Smuggler, SWTOR’s hooks still reside in me. So, I’m along for the ride. For better or worse, I’ll be here for the years to come.

 

So, I have no free stuff to give… I’m holding onto it like a miser who’s near death.

 

TL;DR Version: No. I’ll still be around, I’ve invested too much to give up on it so suddenly.

 

 

#5 Afterword: Why everything I just wrote is wrong.

 

If there’s anyone still reading at this point, well, thanks I suppose. I wrote this mainly for my own purposes, but am elated if anyone took the time to read it.

 

So, let me try to end on a positive note, and escape from the usual doom and gloom of the forums.

There’s a possibility that everything I wrote here is totally and utterly wrong, and oh how happy I would be if that was the case. Knights of the Fallen Empire isn’t even over yet, after all! And SWTOR itself likely has years to go. Throughout all of that, the story easily could be resolved in a satisfying and awesome way. Who knows. Certainly not me.

 

Ultimately, I'm not saying the story of SWTOR is destroyed beyond repair. All I'm saying is that I feel Bioware seems to have dug themselves into quite a large plot hole, and it's going to take a very good plot rope to escape from... And I don't like the look of that plot shovel they are holding.

 

I like this

[MaximumOwnage]

I agree with you on where they took the story, it all started with the raven expansion, they have totally destroyed the story.

 

Yeah, it is pretty ridicules.

[Sith-Viscera]

Wow, all those colors, i almost went into an epileptic fit.

Thank god my phone rang and snapped me out of it.

[Foreignobjects]

i feel like with kOtfe, and that disney has final say on the content now. which is a good thing, but, i feel liike they are making swtor more like kotor now, specially on odessen, with the conversations with the npc, having the kotor style, i really like it. but, yes pvp still needs to be fixed, imo," end game pvp that is". I feel like since the games content is the same so that both factions are basically on the same side ATM, they really need to add Cross Faction chat ability, whether it be, "pst"aka "Whispers" as wow players know it, /tell w/e, " cjoin chat rooms should be cross faction, and it would be awesome to be able to swap factions if you want, once you have finished your 1 - 50 story line, you could use the Light / Dark system to switch, EXAMPLE

 

A Bounty hunter, that is obviously imperial, starts, levels to 50 and or 65, This would give the Dark and light side grinding more to it, so the bounty hunter decides to Grind up to light 5 , once your finished with your story as i said, there would be an NPC on the fleet or some neutral area, that has a quest icon , and puts you on a quest, so that you go and do something and you become a Republic bounty hunter. ive thought of everything for this, and there is no cons to this, because, looking at the other classes,

 

you have a jedi knight that is done with the jedi knight story line, and levels the dark 5, your asking , Well what happens to them if they do this Faction swap quest? well they just basically are converted into a Sith warrior. its the same with the inquisitor/Consular. cause they basically are the same just dif animations. And there are Imperial Smugglers, troopers, and republic bounty hunters and spy/agents of course.

 

This is an AWESOME idea ive asked about 100 people and probably 70% thought it was a great idea, usually on the forums alot of people just like to troll , and be jerks, and just say stuff is a bad idea, either cause they don't understand the concept of it, or they just wanto be mean, anyway, Thank you for reading my ideas, i hope you enjoy it, and it would RULE if we saw this, cause

 

A. would give us more to do

B. all the Same Faction hate tells to each other, will decrease cause we will be setting up events against the opposite faction, pvp for example. AWESOME

 

c. way more perks too, the possibility are endless

 

CHEERS, DARTHSpeedForce

[Jesin]

Why I think Knights of the Fallen Empire Ruined SWTOR

 

(for the time being, at least)

 

(Note to those who find all of the colors obnoxious: Version without all the bright colors and other theatrics in second post of thread)

 

NOTE: TL;DR’s are available at the end of each Spoiler Tag.

 

After logging into 4.0, testing out the changes, playing through the Fallen Empire storyline twice (testing out the different choices that supposedly "matter"), and then letting it marinate for a couple days, I’ve come to realize, SWTOR, in all likelihood, has been ruined for me. For someone who has been with the game since its launch, and has put several hundred hours (who knows how much precisely, counting up all of the “/played’s” for all my characters would be a real chore!) into the game, I have a certain emotional connection to it (after all, how can someone devote hundreds of hours to something and not form some sort of attachment to it), and now so suddenly I realize why there are so many people who feel the need to make “I’m canceling my sub” posts. Well, I’ll try my best to try not to do that, as, after all, I’m likely not cancelling my sub nor leaving the game outright. This (very, very long) post will be a review of sorts of Fallen Empire, and why I think it ruined SWTOR for me.

 

I know what kind of reaction these super long posts usually get (sarcasm, apathy, or simply none), and I go forward with the assumption very few will actually read what I have to say.

 

OTHER NOTE: Spoilers, of course. I will be talking about class stories, expansion stories, etc.

 

Without further ado, I’ll begin.

 

#1 The Skippable Preface: Why do I play SWTOR in the first place?

 

Put simply, I love Star Wars. I’ve been a fan since the original trilogy, but I was more a participant in the cultural phenomenon than a true diehard fan. I loved the movies of course, but I didn’t, for instance, have Star Wars posters, memorabilia, books, countless video, board, and card games, and toys infesting my house like I do now. You know what sparked that transition from the casual to the hardcore? Interestingly enough, it began with Bioware with Knights of the Old Republic. However my fandom didn’t fully emerge from the cocoon until Obsidian’s sequel, The Sith Lords. Maybe it’s the decade of nostalgia that now separates me from my first play through of those games, but I view them with a sense of legend. To me (who had ignored decades of EU Books that likely could’ve started that transition years earlier) they evolved Star Wars from the setting of some damn good films (and some mediocre ones) to a mythology whose size, versatility and capacity for “epicness” is, in my opinion, unrivaled by any fictional creation of modern mankind. I love Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, Star Trek, and (insert many fantasy and sci-fi book series here), but, in my mind, they do not compare.

 

So, naturally, I was going to play SWTOR. Another Star Wars game, set in the Old Republic era made by Bioware with a multi-hundred million dollar budget? I was bursting to get in the door. I was there in the beta, early access, founder title and all that jazz. I played the game for years, and while to some extent I was mildly disappointed in its lacking of KOTOR qualities, I didn’t listen to much of the complaints people had about the game. After all, no dual-spec, limited guild functionality, copy and paste combat system etc. etc. etc.…. That didn’t matter to someone like me. I had never played WoW (or any other major MMO), and didn’t really care too much about the quality or quantity of traditional MMO features. I was here simply for the Star Wars Story.

Jedi vs. Sith! Empire vs. Republic! The mystery of the Sith Emperor! The return of Revan (as divisive as that was)! This is what kept my money and time flowing into SWTOR.

 

Some of you can see where this is going, I’m sure.

 

TL;DR Version: I play SWTOR because it’s Star Wars, and for the Story.

 

 

#2 The Meat and Potatoes: Why do I think the game is ruined?

 

 

#2a The Meat and Potatoes Part One: It’s all for naught.

 

In case you missed it, I play SWTOR for Star Wars, and for the story. Accordingly, I feel like Knights of the Fallen Empire ruined SWTOR’s story, and its Star Wars elements, and therefore has essentially destroyed my reason to play the game. But how did KotFE ruin SWTOR’s story? Well, let me explain.

 

First, and in my opinion, most important, it made everything that has happened thus far not only in the entirety of SWTOR, but even going back to KOTOR totally pointless and irrelevant. That might sound like a stretch, but I really don’t think it is, and here’s why.

 

Throughout the history of SWTOR, we’ve seen our characters face hardship, grow and develop, and ultimately triumph in the face of opposition. We’ve seen them form relationships with characters, grow their own powerbases, protect planets from utter destruction or dominion of the Empire, conquer planets in the name of the Empire, protect their own factions from utter collapse, and even, on a few occasions, saved the galaxy as a whole!

 

I (and I’m sure many others) have grown attached to our characters and their respective factions that we have spent years with. Now, all of that has been totally and seemingly irrevocably undone.

 

A new incredibly randomly and OP as hell faction suddenly invades the galaxy while our characters are in a coma, making the Jedi, the Sith, the Republic, the Empire, and every single accomplishment our characters made either completely pointless and irrelevant. Congratulations, Bioware… in my eyes you just made years of your own writing meaningless. In a tragic turn of events, everything I’ve done through my characters in this universe has been destroyed…. None of it matters. My companions, power base, and entire faction is gone, all because of an incredibly sudden and somehow secret faction that just randomly appeared.

 

Kephess could have won, Revan could have won, the Hutts could have won, the Dread Masters could have won, and our characters could never have even existed and the galaxy would be totally the same: controlled by The New OP Empire.

 

Ultimately, everything that has happened in SWTOR has become one big farce of pointlessness. Jedi? Sith? The Light and Dark Side of the Force? You know, STAR WARS at its very core? They've all become powerless and irrelevant.

Bear with me here, as I use an analogy: What if this happened in Lord of the Rings? You've watched Frodo grow and change through his long and arduous journey, and he is on the verge of destroying the ring at Mount Doom, all the while a cast of memorable characters (Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas, etc.) and the men of the west fight valiantly against the evil forces of Sauron. Suddenly, Frodo (and by extension the audience) enters a coma, only to wake up 5 years later to find an army of invincible Valkyrie have invaded Middle Earth, defeated Rohan, Gondor, the Dwarves, the Elves, and Sauron and his horde of minions to establish a new Empire. It would kind of defeat the purpose of Frodo's quest, and therefore the Lord of the Rings Books themselves.

 

Now, you may be thinking: Well, it was already pointless! We already know the Republic falls to Palpatine, and then the Rebels win, etc. and so forth!

 

But there is a key difference: time.

 

The difference being is that Palpatine and friends is millennia in the future. Our characters are long, long dead, so of course their accomplishments have faded in importance. In this expansion, our characters are very much alive, and in the prime of their importance, only to see their accomplishments, relationships, powerbases, and factions, and ultimately most everything they've been working towards obliterated instantly in front of their faces.

 

Using my Lord of the Rings analogy, if we knew Sauron returned 2 thousand years later, that doesn't mean Frodo's quest was pointless, as his destruction of Sauron lasted for 2 thousand years. However, if we see Sauron get defeated by a random army of Valkyrie before Frodo even finishes his quest, then it is all pointless because he didn't even enact much change at all.

 

Same thing here in SWTOR. We see our character's grow and change, and work towards a steady goal (the success of their faction most commonly), only to see it be erased randomly while they're in a coma just moments after it happened.

 

Put simply, a few thousand years of impact means a lot, but a year or two doesn't mean much at all.

Ultimately, and put dramatically, Valkorion’s destruction of the Sith Empire and Republic is directly analogous to Bioware’s destruction of the relevance of their own story.

 

You might also be saying: Well, our characters are still alive, because of what they did, therefore it isn't all pointless! Well, you are somewhat right, but that only lends to new meaning being created in the future:the deeds and the inherent value of our actions in the past are still completely erased.

 

To use another analogy: Let's say you founded a nation, and saved 100,000 people in the process. But the next day, an infinite army of tanks rolls, killing all 100,000 people and destroying and conquering the country, but you alone were able to escape.

 

Does your physical survival mean that your actions in saving those people who died the next day and founding that country that was destroyed the next day matter at all in the grand scheme of things?

 

No, they're all still dead, and the country is still destroyed.

 

But what about the story still to come? Well, it’s hard to feel invested and care at all, given that everything I’ve invested and cared about before has been basically destroyed. Everything that’s happened…. Even going back all the way to KOTOR (what a tragedy that is), or hell, the Great Hyperspace War has been made irrelevant in favor of the random and all too uninteresting “Eternal Empire,” shattering my emotional connection and interest in general.

 

TL;DR Version: By destroying the Republic, Jedi, Sith, and Empire, our characters actions and history has been made irrelevant, destroying any interest or emotional investment the game had acquired over the years.

 

 

#2b The Meat and Potatoes Part Two: The Puppet Paradox (ie None of this makes any sense!).

 

 

There’s another insidious aspect to this however, and that is this: the story makes absolutely zero sense as presented by Bioware.

 

See, just because things got erased doesn't necessarily mean the story is ruined. Take a look at things like Game of Thrones or certain tragedies. Things get erased and made irrelevant, and yet it's still a very good story. Why? Because everything that happens makes sense, and the climax, even if it doesn't go the protagonist's way, is still a satisfying culmination of long running conflicts that play out the way they do due to key components of things like the character's choices, character's flaws, major plot components, etc. KotFE is missing this entirely. What does any of what my Smuggler did, any of what my Bounty Hunter did, any of what my Jedi Consular did have to do with the invasion of the Infinite Fleet?

 

In KotFE, it's not just that previous things are made irrelevant, it's also the fact that they were ultimately sacrificed for a story that is nonsensical and unsatisfying, and one that really ultimately has very little to do with anything that came before it, making the whole thing seem pointless.

 

So.... why do I think the story makes no sense?

 

Well, It simply makes no sense that Valkorion and Vitiate are the same person. Valkorion and the Eternal Empire run directly opposing Vitiate and his storyline in what I call the “Puppet Paradox.” The Puppet Paradox is thus: Vitiate is simultaneously the puppet-master, and the puppet.

 

To explain, we must begin at the beginning of Vitiate’s story: The Great Hyperspace War. For those who don’t know, this was essentially a giant conflict with the early Sith and Jedi, which Vitiate was alive and part of as a minor Sith Lord. Eventually the Sith were defeated, and Vitiate and a cadre of Sith retreated outside the known Galaxy (to Dromuund Kaas) to lick their wounds, recuperate, and ultimately seek revenge.

 

Fast forward 1000 years, skipping Revan, KOTORs 1 and 2, Exar Kun, Mandalorion Wars, etc. to the return of Vitiate Empire (the ‘Return’ trailer). There’s a war between them and the Republic/Jedi, and then SWTOR as we know it takes place.

 

And then, Knights of the Fallen Empire.

 

You mean to tell me Vitiate has *another* secret Empire!? From where? Since when? How!? This one is even more powerful than the other one? In fact so powerful that it can conquer the Republic and Sith Empire both incredibly easily within the matter of a year or two!?

 

Hold up…. What!? Here is where the Puppet Paradox comes into play. Vitiate is simultaneously the puppet (his Sith Empire invading the Republic to weaken both of them) and the puppet master (the Eternal Empire arriving to conquer both).

 

Why the hell does he invade the galaxy with his secret Empire so that he can ultimately weaken his own Empire so that his *other* secret and even more powerful Empire can conquer his old Empire…? What? Why doesn’t he just invade with BOTH of his Empire’s and end the war (or slaughter) that much faster? Or just have put all of his effort into his better Empire from the start?

 

If the answer is because his new Empire (the Eternal Empire) wasn’t ready until very recently, why didn’t he just wait a few decades so he didn’t have to destroy his Sith Empire? He’s already waited over a millennium, so a couple decades should be like a blink for Vitiate.

 

Overall there are just so many unanswered questions that cause all of the various plots Bioware has put forth to compound upon one another into a cyclone of nonsense:

Why did he let the Empire fail if he had an invincible fleet? Why didn't he just put all of his effort into his one (better Empire)? Why did he spend centuries working with one Empire if he had a better one? Why did he wait until just now to invade with his "better" Empire? Why did he need the original Empire at all if he had a better one? How did he get Zakuul? How did he get the Infinite Fleet? For how long did he have these? Why was the fleet never used before Vitiate had it? How did he keep all of this secret from everyone in the galaxy? Why, if he is a Sith, did he suddenly turn his back on the Sith Code and the Sith Empire in favor for what ever kind of Force user he is now? And if the force users of Zakuul are so powerful but don't use either the Light or Dark Side, why does that dichotomy even exist in the rest of Star Wars? If his goal was to just cause as much prolonged conflict in the galaxy, why did he suddenly choose to end it by conquering everything so swiftly with the Infinite Fleet? What about his desire to consume all life in the galaxy? Why does he seemingly no longer care about this? Why, if he was about to invade the galaxy, did he destroy Ziost?

 

 

And what explanation do we get for Vitiate's shifting motivations? Apparently, the Outlander has "merited [Valkorion's] full attention in all his centuries," and everything else was a "means to an end." (quotes from him in Chapter 1). Wait... what!? Why? Because the Outlander vaguely "leaves his mark upon the galaxy" (another quote)? You're telling me that Vitiate, throughout his 1,300 years of empire building, proxy warring, world devouring, and galactic conquering has been solely focused on the attention of my flirtatious, credit loving Smuggler (who wasn't even born yet for most to that time)!? Are you telling me that my smuggler somehow shapes the galaxy more than Satele, or Revan, or Marr, Saresh, of Malak, or Exar Kun, or any other prominent galactic leader in the entire 1,300 years of Vitiate's life? My Trooper? My Bounty Hunter?

 

Apparently, Vitiate has such a gigantic crush on my illegal goods transporter that he is more focused on him (centuries before he's born) than he is on his multiple empires, huge militaries, wars of a galactic scale etc... Is this the answer Bioware provides us for these huge inconsistencies with Vitiate's character? Because the "Outlander" is some destiny defying chosen one with no explanation given as to how or why? Ultimately, it's poor writing, and I don't buy it at all.

 

The great tragedy here is that even KOTOR itself is rendered nonsensical. What was the point of waiting for over a millenium, seducing Revan and Malak to create a proxy war, and then fighting the Republic for several decades with his one Empire when he had the capability to conquer the entire galaxy in a year or two with his invincible fleet and *other * secret Empire? Apparently, it was all some centuries long ploy with millions of casualties all so Vitiate could... erm.... get intimate with my smuggler...?

 

Ultimately, as Bioware has presented it, the story makes no sense, and is going to need some major plot voodoo to make it all make sense.

 

TL;DR Version: Vitiate and Valkorion being the same person doesn’t make sense. Why did he put hundreds and hundreds of years into growing the Sith Empire if he thought it was a flawed society and had a better and exponentially more powerful one? In other (but similar) words, the story makes no sense as it is presented.

 

 

EDIT: #2c The Meat and Potatoes Part Three: Goodbye Star Wars.

 

 

So, if you’ve read up to this point, you might very well disagree with my assessments of the story. You could see the story as making total and utter sense, as well as not making everything that came before it pointless.

 

And yet, even if you convinced me of those two things, deep down I would still feel the game was, on some level ruined, and here’s why.

 

Ultimately, I feel that the core feeling of “Star Wars” has just taken a large hit. This new storyline doesn’t feel like Star Wars to me. Why? Well...

 

In my eyes, Star Wars, at its very core, is the conflict between the Light and Dark Side of the Force. This struggle, which most commonly manifests as Jedi vs. Sith, or Empire vs. Republic/Rebels, is present in most every major Star Wars plot throughout the decades of its existence. And, even if a conflict in the lore wasn’t directly between a light side force user and a dark side force user, it still took place in the context of a galaxy as a whole divided between the two sides of the force.

 

And this is largely why I’ve stuck with SWTOR this long. Even though alot of the plots weren’t unique, or particularly well written, or all together very good, for the most part they totally nailed the feeling of Star Wars. And that’s all I ever needed.

(Note: There are also plenty of kick-*** and awesomely written stories that are unique and very good in this game too, just want to make that clear!)

 

Even with the Revan plotline, where the two factions came together, it still felt ultimately like Star Wars because at least the Jedi and Sith were still major players in the conflict.

 

But now? Goodbye Sith. Goodbye Empire. Goodbye Republic. Goodbye Jedi. They’ve all been swept to irrelevance by a galactic power that Bioware just (seemingly randomly) created that is indeed so powerful it can defeat everything Star Wars within the space of a few moments in the game. Hell, if this non-Jedi, non-Sith power is so superior, yet doesn’t rely on either the Light Side or Dark Side, then why the hell does that dichotomy even exist? If a single force user who is neither Sith nor Jedi can totally and swiftly conquer all the Sith and all the Jedi, then the whole Light side vs. Dark side struggle that has been going on for millennia past and future seem no longer crucial to the Star Wars Universe.

 

You see how this kind of goes against the lore of Star Wars? The Light and Dark Sides of the Force are supposed to be the most powerful things in the Galaxy, not the "Zakuul Side" or whatever it's called.

 

I want to see the pure hatred of the Sith go up against the calm clairvoyance of the Jedi! I want to see the imperfect democracy of the Republic face off against the ruthless fascism of the Empire! These are the stories we’ve had, and these are the stories I want to see more of, not some random “Eternal Empire” face off against the generic “Outlander.”

 

TL;DR By destroying the Sith and Jedi, the classic Light vs. Dark side story of Star Wars is erased, and the classic Star Wars feeling with it.

 

 

 

#3 The Extras: What about things that aren’t the Story?

 

 

So that’s a lot of talk about the story, and although the story means almost everything to me, what about the other stuff? SWTOR has a lot more in it than interactive cut scenes, after all. So, how did the changes in these parts of the game fare? Well, I’m not so qualified to say, as I don't spend as much time, focus, or invesment into it, but I’ll attempt to give my feedback.

 

First, and most importantly for me, the companions. This, in my eyes, was the biggest (besides what I’ve talked about in the Meat and Potatoes) failure of the new expansion. You know what was cool about the companions? They were unique! Everyone had their own strengths and weaknesses, their own cool abilities, and you could even give them their own cool stats (which brings forth a whole new set of strengths and weaknesses). Now, they are all the same. What is the point in recruiting "new" companions in the Alliance System when they have the same abilities, same stats, same crew skills ability, no interesting dialouge or quests like before, don't offer commentary in conversations, and are just a essentially a new cosmetic skin? Watch my menacing Dashade Khem Val stand on the brink of the action and toss heals in my direction. Witness 2V-R8 tank Darth Baras while my Sith Warrior watches in amusement. Gone are the days of my efforts paying off as I call up my geared as hell Corso to tank for my guild friends when we need a tank.

 

This lends well into my next problem: Somehow, the game has been made even easier… To the point of the game becoming a complete and utter joke. Need a super powerful companion to complete the game for you? Press a button. Need a level 60 to escape the hassle of playing the game? Press a button. Is Arcann proving to be a tense and close fight? Pop an emergency kolto station to heal to maximum health. Yes yes, I know some people want to just play the story and not have to deal with other things (me of all people should know this) but damn…. Don’t people want to have some sense of achievement when they win? Shouldn’t taking down Arcann, or Baras, or Thanaton, or any other boss give you a sense of accomplishment! Seeing your level ding to 60 should grant a sense of reward, instead you say “Well all those hours of playing gave me something I could have just pressed a button to receive instantly.” I don’t know…. I know I could be wrong on this cause people seem to love these changes making the game so laughably easy it’s a joke…. But deep down I remember the days of there being *some* necessity to use medpacs, or your heroic moment, or hell even dying and having to try again, as I frown in boredom as

 

The New Alliance Conversation was also a disappointment, but in no way a game breaker. When I first saw it (being as huge a fan as I am of KOTOR 1 & 2) I was really excited. That conversation system is much more conducive to more in-depth and therefore more fulfilling and interesting conversations. HOWEVER that's only the case because it allows more options in dialouge than just three and therefore branching conversations, thus more unique for each character and more compelling and in-depth. However that's not the case here... You only have 3-4 dialogue options anyway, and each one only gives you a short answer with limited ability to create a new path for the conversation. What was the point of including this new interface if conversations are going to work the exact same way? (Roughly 3 responses, each gets a similar answer each time anyway). And I didn't realize how spoiled I'd become by having full VO for my character. A lack of PC voice over in KOTOR 1 & 2 never bothered me, but now that PC VO in SWTOR, it's absence is jarring and a negative overall, and I think that's because of the lack of continuity. I'm willing to sacrifice my character's voice for more in depth and fulfilling conversations (although I'm probably in the minority there), but if we don't get those than what's the point? It's only negative, bringing nothing positive except cheap nostalgia.

What else? Level sync. Hell, crucify me right now, but I actually LIKE level sync. It makes lower level content interesting via a little added challenge! Or…. Well it would if there was any challenge present in the game. In any case, I feel it’s a step in the right direction, but totally contradicts all the other changes they’ve been making to make the game easy as hell.

 

Crafting I’ve never been much of a part of, so I can’t comment on that really.

Really, I’m pretty exhausted at this point, so I’m just going to wrap this whole thing up.

 

TL;DR Version: The game’s too easy (surprise surprise), companions are no longer unique, there’s no sense of accomplishment in general, and thus the game is neither engaging nor fun.

 

 

 

#4 The End: Is SWTOR over for me?

 

 

Here’s the really tragic part. Is SWTOR over for me? Well…..

 

No.

 

Unfortunately not. I’ve simply invested too much time, money, and most importantly, valuable emotional attachment to not only SWTOR, but KOTOR and the Old Republic Era of Star Wars as a whole to give up now. I simply, for my own sense of personal closure, need to see where the story is going. So, I will keep coming back, likely until SWTOR’s funding gets cut and its servers get shut down for good. After years of playing, hundreds of dollars spent, and countless fond memories of stock striking a Sith Lord I just pulled out of the air, hunting down a Jedi through the snows of Hoth, or flirting with every girl in sight with my dashing Smuggler, SWTOR’s hooks still reside in me. So, I’m along for the ride. For better or worse, I’ll be here for the years to come.

 

So, I have no free stuff to give… I’m holding onto it like a miser who’s near death.

 

TL;DR Version: No. I’ll still be around, I’ve invested too much to give up on it so suddenly.

 

 

#5 Afterword: Why everything I just wrote is wrong.

 

If there’s anyone still reading at this point, well, thanks I suppose. I wrote this mainly for my own purposes, but am elated if anyone took the time to read it.

 

So, let me try to end on a positive note, and escape from the usual doom and gloom of the forums.

There’s a possibility that everything I wrote here is totally and utterly wrong, and oh how happy I would be if that was the case. Knights of the Fallen Empire isn’t even over yet, after all! And SWTOR itself likely has years to go. Throughout all of that, the story easily could be resolved in a satisfying and awesome way. Who knows. Certainly not me.

 

Ultimately, I'm not saying the story of SWTOR is destroyed beyond repair. All I'm saying is that I feel Bioware seems to have dug themselves into quite a large plot hole, and it's going to take a very good plot rope to escape from... And I don't like the look of that plot shovel they are holding.

 

It didn't. If you think that it did, you are clueless.

[Max_Killjoy]

I'll say this -- KOTFE has nothing for me.

 

The more all-in Bioware goes on KOTFE, the further out they push players like me.

[Diviciacus]

It didn't. If you think that it did, you are clueless.

 

This guy only read the thread title, and not a single word the OP wrote.

 

I'll say this -- KOTFE has nothing for me.

 

The more all-in Bioware goes on KOTFE, the further out they push players like me.

 

This is... mostly true. Almost everyone in my guild is gone. Literally everyone on my friends' list is gone. The only reason I still play is because there are seven other people in my guild who, like me, are stubborn enough to want to finish the Nightmare content at-level. But what then?

 

Story is great (in general, but KOTFE's was mediocre to start with and dropped off SHARPLY after Chapter eight) but when that's done and there's nothing else to do (no new flashpoints or operations, pvp that will never be fun because of ignored balance and/or exploits)... then people leave. And when people leave, the game dies.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Diviciacus

[TheSeventhJedi]

Thanks to whomever necro'd this - I didn't see it the first time around. The OP has outlined exactly what I'm feeling - I agree at all points.

[TUXs]

KOTFE didn't ruin SWTOR. Mismanagement has though.

[IanArgent]

KOTFE didn't ruin SWTOR. Mismanagement has though.

 

The (alleged) ruination started before KotFE; KotFE is a continuation of trends that started (in some particulars) as early as Ilum.

 

Which is why I call it alleged ruination.

[Max_Killjoy]

The (alleged) ruination started before KotFE; KotFE is a continuation of trends that started (in some particulars) as early as Ilum.

 

Which is why I call it alleged ruination.

 

 

You just wanted to use the words "alleged ruination".

[TUXs]

You just wanted to use the words "alleged ruination".

Who wouldn't

[Thoronmir]

You just wanted to use the words "alleged ruination".

As someone who uses "alleged" as frequently as a mouth-breather uses "umm" or "huh?", I approve of Ian's use and his phraseology. Or, perhaps I should say Ian's alleged use and phraseology. For that matter, it is more accurate to say that I allegedly approve. And that I am allegedly me.

[DakotaDoc]

I am loving the story, but I am disappointed they have sacrificed developing new OPS, Fixing flash-points.

[IanArgent]

As someone who uses "alleged" as frequently as a mouth-breather uses "umm" or "huh?", I approve of Ian's use and his phraseology. Or, perhaps I should say Ian's alleged use and phraseology. For that matter, it is more accurate to say that I allegedly approve. And that I am allegedly me.

 

Inquiries concerning allegations of propriety should be directed to my legal counsel. I refuse to admit if I have ever behaved properly

[IanArgent]

You just wanted to use the words "alleged ruination".

 

Nah, that was a bonus mission objective.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I'll say this -- KOTFE has nothing for me.

 

The more all-in Bioware goes on KOTFE, the further out they push players like me.

 

Yeah there is only so many times I can trudge through the story. We need some new OPs as well. I really hope they surprise us with a new OP at end of KoTFE. If not.....well.....

[NakodaTheJedi]

Only thing i think that ruined it is the classic conversations like...did we go back 12 yrs or however long ago kotor was made? I quite enjoy the story. I just kind of hate how theyve dragged out this republic/imperial alliance through all these expansions...like just make separate stories for pub and imp sides they only did this because theyre lazy like with the classic conversations

[AlaricSevGirl]

Only thing i think that ruined it is the classic conversations like...did we go back 12 yrs or however long ago kotor was made? I quite enjoy the story. I just kind of hate how theyve dragged out this republic/imperial alliance through all these expansions...like just make separate stories for pub and imp sides they only did this because theyre lazy like with the classic conversations

 

Agree with this. I love KOTFE but I can't stand those "classic" conversations. It's too damned jarring. They need to drop those conversations all together and put them in drop box that you can just pick up. It would have been way less jarring and we all know why they did it. They didn't do it to get back to the roots. They did it because they didn't have the funds but wanted people to be able to get the companions who aren't in or going to be in the story content. So EA/BW put the alliance quests in a drop box. It would work so much better and wouldn't ruin the feel of the game.

[IanArgent]

Agree with this. I love KOTFE but I can't stand those "classic" conversations. It's too damned jarring. They need to drop those conversations all together and put them in drop box that you can just pick up. It would have been way less jarring and we all know why they did it. They didn't do it to get back to the roots. They did it because they didn't have the funds but wanted people to be able to get the companions who aren't in or going to be in the story content. So EA/BW put the alliance quests in a drop box. It would work so much better and wouldn't ruin the feel of the game.

 

The "terminal" mission pickups (as exemplified by the missions available in daily zones) are awful. Don't bring that to non-repeating conversations.

[LordArtemis]

Hi, I am a casual. You now know me, so you can never say that again.

 

Yes, I would say that, if anything, this entire line of content was most likely directly targeted at "casual" players, and those players...if the current numbers and rankings swirling around are to be believed....enjoyed this content despite some of it's shortcomings.

 

In the end, what is important IMO is that the game remains healthy and continues to grow, both in revenue and playerbase.

 

I think it is safe to say, at this point, that this expansion likely accomplished both of those goals. If that is, in fact the case, then one could conclude the "naysayers" were likely wrong with respect to assumptions about the majority playerbase, and what drives them to continue to pay and play.

[Jamtas]

Yes, I would say that, if anything, this entire line of content was most likely directly targeted at "casual" players, and those players...if the current numbers and rankings swirling around are to be believed....enjoyed this content despite some of it's shortcomings.

 

In the end, what is important IMO is that the game remains healthy and continues to grow, both in revenue and playerbase.

 

I think it is safe to say, at this point, that this expansion likely accomplished both of those goals. If that is, in fact the case, then one could conclude the "naysayers" were likely wrong with respect to assumptions about the majority playerbase, and what drives them to continue to pay and play.

 

While I'd like to believe that, the fact that they felt the need to post a letter that they were committed to the game and were planning to be here makes me feel that not everything is hunky dory. If everything is going well, those types of letter don't need to be posted and servers don't become ghost towns. The last time we ahd server ghost towns, it was becuase there were waaay too many servers for the size of the player base. The overall amount was shrunk down to where we are now. The fact that another merger may be needed for population issues would indicate to me that the player base is not greater than ever - more like less than a year ago(note to those who are happy with the lighter populations- I'm not debating on your happiness is having smaller pops, just the fact we find ourselves back in that position)

[MikeCobalt]

I came to a Star Wars game looking for Star Wars...