Bioware, remove the PvP from the quest to get M1-4X.

[evelynchk]

Don't get how some people call the companions "PvP rewards." Can you use a companion in a warzone? No.

 

Why offer a reward for doing part of the game that has nothing to do with said reward?

 

BW, this is not the way to hook people on PvP!

 

You can't use a mount in a warzone either. And yes you can use a companion in open world PvP- not that it matters. What matters is, what makes a reward a "PvP reward" is not whether it can be used in PvP.

Edited October 27, 2015 by evelynchk

[Deyjarl]

I have no problem if they left it or change it. My problem is this one little thing in all of this game directed towards PvE, people get mad about and don't even consider the other side and what they deal with.

 

Not one balanced proposal making it so both PvE and PvP players that didn't like doing the other having an alternative. Every complaint was solely biased only to fixing the Issue for PvE.

[Sambril]

I also dislike that this is the only way for non-troopers to get 4X and therefore I will not be getting him.

 

I think that there should be multiple options for ALL companions - including PVE, PVP and GSF so that players can use their preferred playstyle to fill out their alliance.

[AlienEyeTX]

Every complaint was solely biased only to fixing the Issue for PvE.

 

That's because it is a PvE issue, having to do with PvE story.

 

There are many things that can and should be said about PvP and the neglect or "injustice" that BW visits upon PvP enthusiasts. I feel that pain personally. However, that is not what this thread is about.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

How exactly was any of the Ranked rewards a relevant PVP reward? How exactly are the decorations only purchasable by pvp comms relevant PVP reward? Your question seems a little odd mate.

 

 

This would be fine too. Though, people who are actually bad at PVP might end up having to que more than 20 matches if it was up to medals or such. I doubt they'd leave the requirement to 20 medals, but rather 100+.

 

That's fine, it encourages them to improve at PVP and not be a tool at least.

[Katahn]

I also dislike that this is the only way for non-troopers to get 4X and therefore I will not be getting him.

 

I think that there should be multiple options for ALL companions - including PVE, PVP and GSF so that players can use their preferred playstyle to fill out their alliance.

 

I fully support this. My support and $5 can get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

 

That said I don't see why the different warzones couldn't also provide small amounts of influence with each of the alliance commanders. Doing GSF could give influence with the admiral (overlooking which faction you're on). Maybe Oggurob and Hylo each love Huttball? Could be the Voss appreciates accomplishing PvP missions on Ilum (ya know, for the crystals)? Just spitballing here.

 

Point being is more options is good. I'm glad my sith juggernaut was my first KotFE character. I got to Pierce and said "get back on my ship <censored>" and he promptly did so without so much as a bit of backtalk

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I have no problem if they left it or change it. My problem is this one little thing in all of this game directed towards PvE, people get mad about and don't even consider the other side and what they deal with.

 

Not one balanced proposal making it so both PvE and PvP players that didn't like doing the other having an alternative. Every complaint was solely biased only to fixing the Issue for PvE.

 

These additions don't help improve PVP in any way, they are making it worse from the amount of griefers popping up interested in doing nothing to get "participation" rewards ( conquest points, companion, whatever else ).

[Draqsko]

That's because it is a PvE issue, having to do with PvE story.

 

There are many things that can and should be said about PvP and the neglect or "injustice" that BW visits upon PvP enthusiasts. I feel that pain personally. However, that is not what this thread is about.

 

How is a companion that's not natively yours by class involved in your story? Troopers and Warriors don't have to do any PvP get them back, because it is part of their PvE story. Everyone else has to because that companion really doesn't have any connection to their character at all other than factional affiliation.

 

In other words, it's not part of their story, and judging by the other class companions available through the Alliance system, I don't think they will be an integral part of the KOTFE story going forward either. There's a whole bunch of companions yet to return that I believe they are holding back because they will be in the story. 4X and Pierce are not one of those companions held back.

[Katahn]

Is getting other companions from the particular alliance subcommander gated by needing to get Pierce or 4X? If yes then not getting Pierce/4X ends up blocking the acquisition of others from the same group. Qyzen comes about from a mission from Baywon Aygo (sp) - if you don't do Qyzen's missions does that block getting the next companion quest from Aygo? If you don't take the mission now can you go back to it later?

 

Eh, honestly if I were a PvPer I'd be more annoyed that people were showing up without any interest in actually playing just in order to get a PvE reward. It just swells the pool of sub-par players who have zero interest in really participating or getting better.

 

I'll show up for the warzones, get roflstomped lot, and take the place of a more interested/motivated/geared player in doing so. It won't matter how badly I do. I just need to show up and stay active enough to avoid an inactivity kick. That's way easier than getting a PvE objective done. I'm honestly baffled the PvPers aren't the ones loudly complaining about this, or at least agreeing with the non-PvPers who would rather not be forced to participate to get a PvE reward potentially linked to later stories.

[Faolon]

20 losses isn't exactly an enjoyable experience.

 

 

At most, I can MAYBE get 10 losses. If I'm lucky. Which still leaves 15 games doing something I don't actually enjoy doing all that much.

[Leklor]

Gonna repeat myself but the ideal compromise would be a legacy bypass, either faction dependant or only made available once both companions have been acquired through the Warzones grind (It would be too easy to just send in a Trooper and a SW and unlock them for everyone).

That way, we get to grind them both, they remain "PvP rewards", but the tedium is largely lessened by the fact that you don't have to do it every single time you want to recruit them.

Add that and I'll do 20 Warzones on Imp side (Pub are done) with relative "pleasure" (I'll at least try, like I did on my main Pub, instead of commiting willful sabotage.)

[DirtyDiggler]

There should be no work around, keep PVP in the quest, the quest itself awards warzone comms...

 

If you are going to remove PVP from alliance, then remove PVE as well.

[Max_Killjoy]

You do not have the right to make that call.. 4X was originally got by doing a PVE quest.. It is retarded to take him away and demand we PVP to get him back..

 

How about your stick to the facts and keep your views about how others should play the game to yourself..

 

Nobody forces you to post here.. Nobody asked for or wanted your opinion.. What is the difference??

 

The one thing that does need to be pointed out is that Troopers don't need to grind PvP to get 4X.

[Leklor]

There should be no work around, keep PVP in the quest, the quest itself awards warzone comms...

 

If you are going to remove PVP from alliance, then remove PVE as well.

 

But it wouldn't be "Removing PvP from the Alliance". Since PvP doesn't benefit the Alliance outside of that specific grind.

Warzones comms have exactly zero use for the Alliance. In fact, the 1000 Warzone comms you get from the Forex/Pierce quest nets exactly 25 Common Data Crystals. Double that if the player plays the Weekly and every single of the dailies. 50 CDC. One Ressource Crate. That's pitiful.

Weeklies, if not dailies, should reward anywhere between one to four Ressource crates upon completion. Then, PvP will be integrated into the Alliance. Right now, the word you're looking for isn't "integrated", it's "shoe-horned".

Justify it by saying those Warzones are done fighting pro "Imp-Pub War" enemies that impede the Alliance's progress. Now THAT would justify the quest well.

And put a Legacy bypass requiring a bit of work.

[Erasimus]

The one thing that does need to be pointed out is that Troopers don't need to grind PvP to get 4X.

 

I never thought I'd see the day I agree with Max, but he is right. You don't have to do any PvP to get the companion back on the characters that had him/it prior to 4.0 only if you want to add it as an extra companion on non-Trooper/Sith warrior characters. Hence the extra effort to get 4X or Pierce on characters that never had these as companions.

[Billupsat]

But it wouldn't be "Removing PvP from the Alliance". Since PvP doesn't benefit the Alliance outside of that specific grind.

Warzones comms have exactly zero use for the Alliance. In fact, the 1000 Warzone comms you get from the Forex/Pierce quest nets exactly 25 Common Data Crystals. Double that if the player plays the Weekly and every single of the dailies. 50 CDC. One Ressource Crate. That's pitiful.

Weeklies, if not dailies, should reward anywhere between one to four Ressource crates upon completion. Then, PvP will be integrated into the Alliance. Right now, the word you're looking for isn't "integrated", it's "shoe-horned".

Justify it by saying those Warzones are done fighting pro "Imp-Pub War" enemies that impede the Alliance's progress. Now THAT would justify the quest well.

And put a Legacy bypass requiring a bit of work.

 

I'm not opposed to a legacy unlock (ala HK) but I do disagree with your reasoning. You could say that all of the alliance aspects were shoe-horned in whenever a group of people doesn't like a certain requirement (Qyzen, Lokin.) It doesn't make it so. Also, the point of the mission warzone comms is not to convert them into common data crystals, (This is discouraged by the pitiful amount the conversion yields) not to say you can't and don't have a right to do that, but it isn't the intended function. Whether people agree or vehemently disagree (as is popular on this thread/forum) the point of all those warzone comms is for gear (Though I suppose there is a case to be made for decorations.) The quest was designed to encourage/attract new blood to PvP and hopefully they'll like it enough to continue doing it (I recall 2 such individuals much earlier saying as such before yesterdays mud-flinging contest.) The piteous amount of CDC's awarded for conversion as I mentioned before is intended to discourage but not eliminate conversation.

 

As I've said numerous times before, I don't support removing the PvP requirement. Changing the PvP requirement I'd love to talk about and reach a compromise. I've posted solutions at least twice (I won't blame anyone for not going back and looking through this thread to find them given its mass) and would be glad to post them again.

[Leklor]

*snip*

 

Well, TBH, I mostly call it shoe-horned because it comes a bit out of nowhere, isn't very profitable Alliance-wise and there's no incentive to continue doing WZs once the companion is acquired. This is, of course, purely subjective, but an assured, if small, Alliance Reward (Random Rank 6 Legendary Companion Gift? Alliance Ressource Crate?) for the dailies and weeklies WZs quests might make me inclined to queue again and provide at least a token effort.

Right now, as I've got Forex on my Knight, on don't feel there is any reasons to queue again.

As for your solutions, I might have skimmed them when the thread was at its lowest and had devolved into a sh** throwing competion (It's gotten better now). I'd be curious to read them now, because I'm not in favour of a full removal of the PvP requirements. Only a reduction or the offer of a longer, less profitable, PVE alternative (For example, earning the companion at Influence 1 instead of 10, no achievement, Alliance Crate and Gift like the PvP quest currently offers. Make it a poorer alternative to the PvP quest so that it becomes a choice between path A or B instead of a choice between doing and not doing.)

 

EDIT: And I totaly agree that Qyzen's grind and Lokin's mat grind + Rakghoul event do feel shoehorned in there!

Edited October 27, 2015 by Leklor

[Billupsat]

Well, TBH, I mostly call it shoe-horned because it comes a bit out of nowhere, isn't very profitable Alliance-wise and there's no incentive to continue doing WZs once the companion is acquired. This is, of course, purely subjective, but an assured, if small, Alliance Reward (Random Rank 6 Legendary Companion Gift? Alliance Ressource Crate?) for the dailies and weeklies WZs quests might make me inclined to queue again and provide at least a token effort.

Right now, as I've got Forex on my Knight, on don't feel there is any reasons to queue again.

As for your solutions, I might have skimmed them when the thread was at its lowest and had devolved into a sh** throwing competion (It's gotten better now). I'd be curious to read them now, because I'm not in favour of a full removal of the PvP requirements. Only a reduction or the offer of a longer, less profitable, PVE alternative (For example, earning the companion at Influence 1 instead of 10, no achievement, Alliance Crate and Gift like the PvP quest currently offers. Make it a poorer alternative to the PvP quest so that it becomes a choice between path A or B instead of a choice between doing and not doing.)

 

EDIT: And I totaly agree that Qyzen's grind and Lokin's mat grind + Rakghoul event do feel shoehorned in there!

 

You make a point, they could add alliance crates/companion gifts to the PvP dailies to help incentive the process.

 

As for what I'd suggested there are a few ways to cut down on the grind or minimize the unpleasantness that can be explored.

 

~Cut the required matches in half from 20 to 10

~Change it to where it just requires the completion of the PvP Weekly (granted that's 15 matches if you lose every time)

~Cut it down to 5 matches, but 5 wins.

~If they aren't willing to change the number of matches, instead after the initial conversation with 4X/Pierce give the player a full set (implants/relics included) of PvE gear that bolsters properly to 2018 expertise

~Add a legacy/cartel option (Think HK-51/Treek) that after completing the chain on one character you can unlock/purchase him on other characters

~Change the requirements from matches won to medals earned. Instead of 20 matches, say 50 medals. If you get 8-ish medals per match that's less than 10 matches you'd have to compete.

 

As for PvE alternatives I haven't really considered those... mainly because I still believe outright removing or making the PvP requirement ineffective to be at odds with the intent and making it rather pointless. That and I'm not sure what to suggest that would match the story-intent with the companions and make it PvE friendly. I suppose it could have something to do with rescuing NPC's from the outlaws den, but then People would really be subject to griefing from PvP'ers.

[Leklor]

*snip*

 

Read and agreed, mostly.

Here's a few options I think the quest could offer, including a PvE one. Tell me what you think.

When faced with the (Soon-to-be) companion on the capital world, you have the following dialog options regarding his request:

-"I'll do it but the Alliance needs me so I won't fight much." => You have to do 5 Warzones, win or lose. Reward: The companion, at influence 3 or 4 tops. No Appropriate rank 6 gift, no Alliance Crate and a few hundreds WZs Comms.

-"The Alliance needs you soon so I'll be quick and I'll win this." => You have to WIN 5 Warzones. Defeats don't count. Reward: Companion at Influence 5 or 6, either the gift or the crate + appropriate WZs Comms.

-"I'll do it" => Replaces the current 20 with ten warzones. Wins count double. Reward identical to right now except WZs commendations cut in half.

-"I'll do more than that." => Turn in the Weekly WZs quest. Reward: Companion at Influence 10 or higher, either two gifts or two crates, appropriate number of WZs comms.

-"I'll crush our ennemies" => Hardcore version: Warzones have to be ranked AND won. Reward: Very high influence level (Near 20 or more), several gifts and crates + another special reward (Maybe a unique Companion customization?) + Ranked commendation.

-"I think the war needs to stop until Zakuul is defeated." This is the PvE option and it's both long and not very rewarding. It would consist in hunting an enemy ranking officier (Champion rank) on nearly every planet in the game (Planets that are supposed to be one-faction only add an "Infiltration unit" there) in a rather remote location (Lorewise they'd be opposed to a truce and silencing them is the only way for a relatively tenuous peace to be reached with the Empire/Republic) . Each officier must be defeated ungrouped. Reward: Just the companion, at Influence 1, no comms (Obvious really), a few CDC, no companion gift, no Alliance Ressources crates. Basically, the least rewarding option and potentially the most tedious since there'll be a lot of backtracking.

 

What do you think (I tried to gimp the PvE option to make it the lesser alternative, because as I said, I can't stand PvP in large ammounts but small are fine, and sometimes I just want to do something new.)?

Any adjustements you'd offer?

Edited October 28, 2015 by Leklor

[Billupsat]

Read and agreed, mostly.

Here's a few options I think the quest could offer, including a PvE one. Tell me what you think.

When faced with the (Soon-to-be) companion on the capital world, you have the following dialog options regarding his request:

-"I'll do it but the Alliance needs me so I won't fight much." => You have to do 5 Warzones, win or lose. Reward: The companion, at influence 3 or 4 tops. No Appropriate rank 6 gift, no Alliance Crate and a few hundreds WZs Comms.

-"The Alliance needs you soon so I'll be quick and I'll win this." => You have to WIN 5 Warzones. Defeats don't count. Reward: Companion at Influence 5 or 6, either the gift or the crate + appropriate WZs Comms.

-"I'll do it" => Replaces the current 20 with ten warzones. Wins count double. Reward identical to right now except WZs commendations cut in half.

-"I'll do more than that." => Turn in the Weekly WZs quest. Reward: Companion at Influence 10 or higher, either two gifts or two crates, appropriate number of WZs comms.

-"I'll crush our ennemies" => Hardcore version: Warzones have to be ranked AND won. Reward: Very high influence level (Near 20 or more), several gifts and crates + another special reward (Maybe a unique Companion customization?) + Ranked commendation.

-"I think the war needs to stop until Zakuul is defeated." This is the PvE option and it's both long and not very rewarding. It would consist in hunting an enemy ranking officier (Champion rank) on nearly every planet in the game (Planets that are supposed to be one-faction only add an "Infiltration unit" there) in a rather remote location (Lorewise they'd be opposed to a truce and silencing them is the only way for a relatively tenuous peace to be reached with the Empire/Republic) . Each officier must be defeated ungrouped. Reward: Just the companion, at Influence 1, no comms (Obvious really), a few CDC, no companion gift, no Alliance Ressources crates. Basically, the least rewarding option and potentially the most tedious since there'll be a lot of backtracking.

 

What do you think (I tried to gimp the PvE option to make it the lesser alternative, because as I said, I can't stand PvP in large ammounts but small are fine, and sometimes I just want to do something new.)?

Any adjustements you'd offer?

 

I can see that as a PvE alternative, it might be a little too punishing but at the same time I feel it should be because you'd be going around the intended purpose of the companion mission. It also adds something for everyone, and lets face it, more options is never a bad thing. My one specific concern with a PvE alternative is that I feel it needs to be time comparative to at least running and losing ten warzones, but the way you've laid it out it probably already is. So those who really, REALLY, detest PvP have their option but are at a severe rate of diminishing returns.

[Audoucet]

I don't mind it. PvPers who'll have the bad fortune to be in my group, insult me and whine for hours will probably mind, though.

[Leklor]

I can see that as a PvE alternative, it might be a little too punishing but at the same time I feel it should be because you'd be going around the intended purpose of the companion mission. It also adds something for everyone, and lets face it, more options is never a bad thing. My one specific concern with a PvE alternative is that I feel it needs to be time comparative to at least running and losing ten warzones, but the way you've laid it out it probably already is. So those who really, REALLY, detest PvP have their option but are at a severe rate of diminishing returns.

 

In fact, I think there should be a PvP alternative to one companion: Qyzen.

What better to prove your worth than to accumulate WZs kills? You are not supposed to be fighting foot soldiers but the very best the opposite faction has to offer. Since Qyzen isn't bound to the Republic only anymore, both faction could earn him via PvP, with a counter simply based on killed ennemies, Slayer Medals or whatever.

And yeah, I did put punishing restriction on the PvE proposed alternative to Forex/Pierce because, while I still feel the option wouldn't hurt, it needs to be time-consuming to even out the time spent in Warzones.

[Billupsat]

In fact, I think there should be a PvP alternative to one companion: Qyzen.

What better to prove your worth than to accumulate WZs kills? You are not supposed to be fighting foot soldiers but the very best the opposite faction has to offer. Since Qyzen isn't bound to the Republic only anymore, both faction could earn him via PvP, with a counter simply based on killed ennemies, Slayer Medals or whatever.

And yeah, I did put punishing restriction on the PvE proposed alternative to Forex/Pierce because, while I still feel the option wouldn't hurt, it needs to be time-consuming to even out the time spent in Warzones.

 

Of all the companions to make sense for a PvP requirement its Qyzen, in fact it almost makes more sense to have had Qyzen/Khem Val to have been the PvP recruitment companions because they mirror each others roles well. Qyzen hunts for Scorekeeper, and Khem Val is a murderous monster who I'm sure likes to much on the enemy for kicks.

 

And really, since this alliance system is supposed to be more intimate and more about the player and their choices really there should be multiple options for recruitment to fit that players play style. PvP options for the PvP'ers, raid/world boss/flashpoint options for the group oriented, and solo PvE options for the casual player, or some variant of all 3 with more/less extreme tasks to be done depending on how the companion is intended to be obtained. So if a companion is meant to be obtained through world bosses, the solo PvE'ers have a lengthy grind to fight over, the PvP'ers have a ridiculous amount of wins/medals to achieve in warzones. and vice versa for other companions with different functions.

[Leklor]

Shame. We finally managed to establish a real dialogue about the "situation" and the thread dies a quiet death.

I think it needs to go back to insults and personal attacks!

On a more serious note: I'd be interested to see opinions about the options Billupsat and I offered to "fix" the issue while still making the reward worth it for PvP. I mean, neither of us are perfect, I think (Correct me if I'm wrong ^^) so more opinions are always nice.

[Rogue_Kitsune]

I commented on this previously, and figured I'd come back and post my updated thoughts: One of my biggest concerns originally wasn't even so much the requirement to do PvP, but rather that every character I wanted to play through KotFE with and have attempt to recruit these companions would need to do PvP. And I did manage the 20 matches with my Sniper; it wasn't exactly the most pleasant experience, but it was tolerable... I don't have much desire to ever do that again, though, especially with any of my other characters. I didn't mind it with my Sniper, because I actually know how to play that character reasonably well (at least in regards to PvE content like Ops), but I'm not nearly as comfortable with some of my other characters (like my Juggernaut, for example: even though I completed his class story, I still can't help but feel like I don't actually have any clue how to play that class). Further, even if I did know how to play all of my characters perfectly, needing to play 20 matches per character would start to add up rather quickly.

 

So. I don't actually mind the initial PvP requirement at this point, but I would like if there was some way to circumvent it through the Legacy system after having completed it once. One idea would be to make Valor rank be Legacy wide, rather than character specific - no changes would be needed for the quest this way, since reaching Valor rank 40 is the current alternative to completing 20 matches, (obviously intended for people who've already been playing PvP). This would still require players to do a fair bit of PvP, but I don't think it'd be too excessive - I'm at rank 21 after 18 matches (with only 2 wins), so it seems like you can probably get about one Valor rank per PvP match? If so, that would make it require only ~40 PvP matches to unlock those companions for any and all of your characters.

 

It could also just be tied to an achievement, of course, and give the player character some comment along the lines of "Here is proof that my Alliance has already proven its strength" or such. This could then either unlock the character outright, or at least lower the number of PvP matches needed down to, maybe... four, perhaps? That seems like a decent number to me (especially since the one PvP daily requires four matches).

 

Also, though... while we're at it, I'd like to see Legacy options to simplify or bypass repeating the recruitment missions for Qyzen Fess and Doctor Lokin as well. The requirements for them seem challenging but fairly reasonable, if you're only going through it once, but it would be incredibly irritating to have to go through all of that with every single character one might decide to play. (Also also: I feel like the Alliance system really should tie in more to Legacy overall, with things like Companion Influence made Legacy-wide in addition to these other suggestions, because, again, it's a significant grind, which doesn't seem too bad with a single character, but seems excessive to try to go through with multiple characters.)