Any chance a balance pass is in order? (Companions and Heroic Moment OP)

[MerakBashee]

I maintain my suggestion about adding a handicap bar to companions, with their current value being the base value, and if you think they're too strong, you can weaken them by increasing the handicap value's bar. Everyone wins.

[sentientomega]

This seems to have been stealth-fixed in 4.0a. Mobs in the story went from 4k to 12k, and my companion is healing for less.

 

That's actually good news, so long as if my char has their comp removed via story script, as does happen in KotFE, that it isn't harder for them.

 

I can't speak for BW's ability to buff or nerf 'A bit'. But I can say this: Have companion stats depend on gear again. There. Companions can be as Overpowered or Underpowered as you want, all you need is to give them the appropriate gear. I think allowing companions to do any role is great, but the stats being level dependent is where it all went wrong. Sure it allows you to dress comps in whatever outfit you want to give them, but I don't think that's a worthy trade off considering how ridiculously divided the community is over this issue.

 

Here is another idea, completely apart from the one above: Add a handicap bar. I kid you not. Add one. So that in your companion screen you can go and give them a percentage handicap. Don't need to change back to the old equipment base stat thing, just add the ability for players to assign a percentage handicap modifier to the companion stats so that we, players, can tune our companion's effectiveness we want. Some people get their OP companions, others get their more 'on the level' companions. Everyone gets to play WITH their companions.

 

How about this? Comp stats could depend, in part, on our char's gear. For whatever gear we have, they get the equivalent base stats for their role. I also like, REALLY like, the idea for a handicap toggle range for presence (from whatever the max is that we have, ranged incrementally to 0 presence for any given companion), I can see myself tweaking it, even.

Edited October 22, 2015 by sentientomega

[Karkais]

Who actually uses Heroic Moment?

 

I use it for flavor purposes. I find it cool to be able to use force lightning as Wrath. Its probably still useful for soloing low-lvl world bosses.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Karkais

[ReverendAnderson]

I always spent a ridiculous amount of comms and crafting mats to ensure my comps were in the best possible gear. Tank comps from level 20 to 59 were complete ****, no matter what gear you had on them.

 

If you were really doing that, then you must have been expecting them to hold all the aggro AND kill all the enemies while you twiddled your thumbs. The last class I finished before 4.0 was a Madness Sorcerer, and beat the whole story with me and Khem in crafted greens and some stims.

 

But honestly, there's a better way to fix this. Buff enemies a bit and then give up a White Acute style item that suppressed the crazy presence bonus from influence. That way people who can't cope with the idea they might actually need to press a button or two to win can have their hand held through the wuss version and folks who want a bit of challenge can have that too.

Edited October 22, 2015 by ReverendAnderson

[Teladis]

Sorry they won't get nerfed.

 

They should be strong. They should be worth having around and they should be able to hold own. In the other games, they was able to do it just fine.

 

 

Sorry, but you won't get your way on this one. Companions now don't feel like just a extra dot. Want it tougher, Don't use one.

 

 

/thread.

[Vember]

If you were really doing that, then you must have been expecting them to hold all the aggro AND kill all the enemies while you twiddled your thumbs. The last class I finished before 4.0 was a Madness Sorcerer, and beat the whole story with me and Khem in crafted greens and some stims.

 

But honestly, there's a better way to fix this. Buff enemies a bit and then give up a White Acute style item that suppressed the crazy presence bonus from influence. That way people who can't cope with the idea they might actually need to press a button or two to win can have their hand held through the wuss version and folks who want a bit of challenge can have that too.

 

I didn't expect them to, because the couldn't hold aggro OR kill any mobs I kind of like that they can now, to be quite honest. I also leveled up with a sorc from Khem to Xalek, twice. I know exactly what they were capable of. And Xalek in augmented 192's was a straight up beast. I snicker at these complaints of OP companions.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Vember

[PulseRazor]

Okay, look.

 

As utterly ridiculous the idea of assigning handicaps to yourself to eek a bit of satisfaction out of game play is, I can see it might be necessary to spell it out for some of you just how silly this idea is.

 

Its an MMO with an Economy, that is the bottom line. EA has an interest in having people invest money into it, so they are going to create all different things for us to spend money on, we all know this.

 

Since it is faster and more efficient to use a healer companion now, and the fact that they are so over-tuned it is unlikely that anyone is going to handicap themselves while the person next to them can generate a lot more resources by not handicapping themselves. More to the point, this game has become so easy that a simple AHK script and/or a C++ /cd overlay can play it with absolutely zero chance of being detected as an automation because it has no .dll injection. If I have lost you that's because you don't understand. That is okay, but don't pose handicapping yourself as a solution to this very real problem until you do understand.

 

This New Gaming Enhancement and Combat Upgrade system is opening the door for botters, there is a balance between pandering to people who don't play at certain level, and making the game so simple a couple lines of script can do it. The OP hopes that this balance will be looked at.

[IanArgent]

This seems to have been stealth-fixed in 4.0a. Mobs in the story went from 4k to 12k, and my companion is healing for less.

 

Time for me to re-run Oricon, I guess

[MerakBashee]

That's actually good news, so long as if my char has their comp removed via story script, as does happen in KotFE, that it isn't harder for them.

 

 

 

How about this? Comp stats could depend, in part, on our char's gear. For whatever gear we have, they get the equivalent base stats for their role. I also like, REALLY like, the idea for a handicap toggle range for presence (from whatever the max is that we have, ranged incrementally to 0 presence for any given companion), I can see myself tweaking it, even.

 

I had thought of something similar to the "Stats based on the gear you have", could totally work as well. Game grabs player's Mastery and Endurance stats and assigns them around to the companion based on the role they have going. If comp is a tank, put highest stat on endurance, if DPS or healer, put it on Mastery. But I think a handicap toggle bar would be simpler to add and wouldn't require further modifying the system currently in place, only adding to it.

 

So, yeah. Handicap bar. Fund it.

[sentientomega]

I had thought of something similar to the "Stats based on the gear you have", could totally work as well. Game grabs player's Mastery and Endurance stats and assigns them around to the companion based on the role they have going. If comp is a tank, put highest stat on endurance, if DPS or healer, put it on Mastery. But I think a handicap toggle bar would be simpler to add and wouldn't require further modifying the system currently in place, only adding to it.

 

So, yeah. Handicap bar. Fund it.

 

Yep, also a general game difficulty toggle; which could buff the base damage reduction a certain amount depending on difficulty, for instance, of players and comps, the way the 5% class buffs work, they, too, could get modded to incorporate a difficulty range toggle.

[IanArgent]

If you were really doing that, then you must have been expecting them to hold all the aggro AND kill all the enemies...

 

With the caveat that I would end that sentence with "while the player heals them," yes, that's what I expect a tank comp to be able to do in solo PvE play, since that's what a healer need to have happen in group play. Between the player and the comp, that team should make a tactical trinity that's light on one corner. (There's a class design issue with this in the actual game, since the Gunslinger/Sniper can only DPS, no ability to heal, unlike the other 6/12 ACs; but that's not relevant to this discussion). If you pick a role, you should be able to to that as your primary role in combat. I expect a tank comp/healer player to be light in the DPS department, but I'd also expect the companion to contribute a noticeable measure to the DPS for a non-DPS player..

[ReverendAnderson]

With the caveat that I would end that sentence with "while the player heals them," yes, that's what I expect a tank comp to be able to do in solo PvE play, since that's what a healer need to have happen in group play. Between the player and the comp, that team should make a tactical trinity that's light on one corner. (There's a class design issue with this in the actual game, since the Gunslinger/Sniper can only DPS, no ability to heal, unlike the other 6/12 ACs; but that's not relevant to this discussion). If you pick a role, you should be able to to that as your primary role in combat. I expect a tank comp/healer player to be light in the DPS department, but I'd also expect the companion to contribute a noticeable measure to the DPS for a non-DPS player..

 

Sure, and no matter what Bioware does to fix this issue I'd expect them to create a system where any class can roll with any companion and that companion would have a mode where the player/companion combo is effective. I mostly play tanks, and I almost always roll with a DPS companion and its worked just fine in the past. I do about 60-75% of the work, but if I didn't have Kira or whoever there with me, I couldn't finish the harder fights.

Creating some kind of scaling system where we could adjust how powerful our companions are, from baby mode to actually difficult would a nice change. Even if they can't manage that though, things were much better before than they are now.

[wmtyrance]

So.....just don't put any influence into your companions if you don't like them doing so much damage/healing/tanking?

 

Or don't use them at all. Its only the vet.player's complaining about everything. As a low level player the companion changes have made the game more fun for me and i can enjoy the story more. Before whenever i took on a boss the companion died quickly now they last a bit longer in a fight so i can't complain.

Edited October 22, 2015 by wmtyrance

[DizzD]

Let's be real here, it's not about challenge at all, so drop the pretense.

 

SOLO CONTENT HAS NEVER BEEN CHALLENGING, IT'S MERELY A TIME SINK

 

If you have half a brainstem with some tiny modicum of neural activity you can beat all solo content. The only thing companion efficiency determines is how long it takes you to slog through it.

 

Nerfing or buffing companions simply changes the time required for the leveling process, for dailes, for the process of earning(and re-earning) retro achieves etc.

 

Most people want to take as little time as possible on this mindless boring crap that we've already done over and over before.

[ReverendAnderson]

Let's be real here, it's not about challenge at all, so drop the pretense.

 

SOLO CONTENT HAS NEVER BEEN CHALLENGING, IT'S MERELY A TIME SINK

 

If you have half a brainstem with some tiny modicum of neural activity you can beat all solo content. The only thing companion efficiency determines is how long it takes you to slog through it.

 

Nerfing or buffing companions simply changes the time required for the leveling process, for dailes, for the process of earning(and re-earning) retro achieves etc.

 

Most people want to take as little time as possible on this mindless boring crap that we've already done over and over before.

 

If the bulk of the game is mindless and boring, then why are you playing it? I enjoyed leveling before 4.0. NOW it's mindless and boring and I don't like it.

[DizzD]

If the bulk of the game is mindless and boring, then why are you playing it? I enjoyed leveling before 4.0. NOW it's mindless and boring and I don't like it.

 

The bulk of my gameplay isn't mindless and boring because I bust *** to get through all that crap as quickly as possible to enjoy endgame with HM/NiM/Meta. But that's my prerogative.

 

If you enjoy the repeating the lowbie game ad infinitum, that's your prerogative. If you thinks it's "too easy/too quickly finished" you have MANY ways to optionally make it harder for yourself.

 

Or, you know, you can join with the horrible entitled people who demand changes to satisfy their own stubborn unwillingness to adapt by forcing un-wanted changes upon everyone else.

[Draqsko]

Well, I certainly hope they do not handle it the way they handled the contraband slot machine.

 

They know of no other way to nerf anything, look at the nerf to conquest crafting. It removed crafting as a means to get conquest points completely. Same with flashpoints and conquest.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Draqsko

[ReverendAnderson]

The bulk of my gameplay isn't mindless and boring because I bust *** to get through all that crap as quickly as possible to enjoy endgame with HM/NiM/Meta. But that's my prerogative.

 

If you enjoy the repeating the lowbie game ad infinitum, that's your prerogative. If you thinks it's "too easy/too quickly finished" you have MANY ways to optionally make it harder for yourself.

 

Or, you know, you can join with the horrible entitled people who demand changes to satisfy their own stubborn unwillingness to adapt by forcing un-wanted changes upon everyone else.

 

I'll go with option C. I hope Bioware fixes the balance and actually makes the game a game again. Ideally they'll add some kind of customization to make people who think making the bulk of a game "crap" to be sped through is good design happy too, but honestly I really don't care about you or what you want.

 

I'm not demanding Bioware change their game, it's their game, I'm just saying I don't like what they've done and I hope they fix it. If they don't I'll move on and that will be that.

Edited October 22, 2015 by ReverendAnderson

[Vember]

Or, you know, you can join with the horrible entitled people who demand changes to satisfy their own stubborn unwillingness to adapt by forcing un-wanted changes upon everyone else.

 

This ^

[Draqsko]

Okay, look.

 

As utterly ridiculous the idea of assigning handicaps to yourself to eek a bit of satisfaction out of game play is, I can see it might be necessary to spell it out for some of you just how silly this idea is.

 

Its an MMO with an Economy, that is the bottom line. EA has an interest in having people invest money into it, so they are going to create all different things for us to spend money on, we all know this.

 

Since it is faster and more efficient to use a healer companion now, and the fact that they are so over-tuned it is unlikely that anyone is going to handicap themselves while the person next to them can generate a lot more resources by not handicapping themselves. More to the point, this game has become so easy that a simple AHK script and/or a C++ /cd overlay can play it with absolutely zero chance of being detected as an automation because it has no .dll injection. If I have lost you that's because you don't understand. That is okay, but don't pose handicapping yourself as a solution to this very real problem until you do understand.

 

This New Gaming Enhancement and Combat Upgrade system is opening the door for botters, there is a balance between pandering to people who don't play at certain level, and making the game so simple a couple lines of script can do it. The OP hopes that this balance will be looked at.

 

Except they nerfed the credit drops on mobs, which negates your point about bots since the only good way to get credits now is to complete quests, like story quests, heroics, weeklies, dailies, etc.

[Deiser]

I keep hearing that the comps are overpowered, but really theyre not; the overpowered companions are only due to spending a long time getting legacy perks and achievements, so the new system effectively rewards long time players with substantial boosts.

 

In comparison, I only have consular completed on Harbinger, and outside of those comps and about four comps from other classes Ive not unlocked any presence bonuses. My tharan in heal mode keeps me healed up, but if Im in a large mob he still crumples like paper and gets outdamaged.

 

I honestly don't think the system is unbalanced. Instead, its the sudden shock of comps going from sucking to being powerful, combined with retroactively "rewarding" long time players for unlocking more legacy boosts, that makes the new system feel like its unbalanced. Give it a week and you'll notice that after adjusting to the comps' new competence, they really arent as broken as people claim; the super powerful comps are the result of unlocking 8 classes worth of bonuses and I think this is a great way to reward older players.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Deiser

[Mikahrone]

This is what I'm afraid of; despite my comments about the comps being a little too good.

 

Companions need to be nerfed, but what needs to be done is buffing player characters.

 

Also presence, as a stat its should do:

 

"While you have companion summoned presence increase YOUR and your companions stats"

 

That way it could appear on (solo) gear again and be best stat for soloing (just as expertise is best stat for PvP)

Edited October 22, 2015 by Mikahrone

[ReverendAnderson]

I keep hearing that the comps are overpowered, but really theyre not; the overpowered companions are only due to spending a long time getting legacy perks and achievements, so the new system effectively rewards long time players with substantial boosts.

 

That's not true. I've hit 50 with a human and maxed 8 companions affection, so that's a 180 boost in Presence. At Rank 9 Influence with T7 I'm getting +450 Presence when I summon him. That's more than doubling my total Presence score, even including the 180 boost from Legacy.

 

Over half of my companion's health and more than half their damage is coming from their bonus, and the bonus is coming largely from their Influence level. I'm not sure there's any way to NOT gain influence with companions you use during questing. Even if you removed the Legacy presence bonus, companions would still be significantly more powerful than players.

Edited October 22, 2015 by ReverendAnderson

[Draqsko]

That's not true. I've hit 50 with a human and maxed 8 companions affection, so that's a 180 boost in Presence. At Rank 9 Influence with T7 I'm getting +450 Presence when I summon him. That's more than doubling my total Presence score, even including the 180 boost from Legacy.

 

Over half of my companion's health and more than half their damage is coming from their bonus, and the bonus is coming largely from their Influence level. I'm not sure there's any way to NOT gain influence with companions you use during questing. Even if you removed the Legacy presence bonus, companions would still be significantly more powerful than players.

 

Wait, weren't you the one that said T7 was giving you two-thirds of the presence?

 

Oh, wait, no you're just wrong. I'm in the game now looking at T7's stat breakdown, and he's getting over half his health and damage from my Presence stat ... but two thirds of my Presence stat comes from T7's influence level. He gives me +450 Presence when I summon him. So it doesn't have anything to do with how much I've played the game in the past.

 

So which is it, two-thirds or half, or you going to pull more random numbers out of your *** without checking what you posted elsewhere?

[Mikahrone]

Okay, look.

 

As utterly ridiculous the idea of assigning handicaps to yourself to eek a bit of satisfaction out of game play is, I can see it might be necessary to spell it out for some of you just how silly this idea is.

 

Its an MMO with an Economy, that is the bottom line. EA has an interest in having people invest money into it, so they are going to create all different things for us to spend money on, we all know this.

 

Since it is faster and more efficient to use a healer companion now, and the fact that they are so over-tuned it is unlikely that anyone is going to handicap themselves while the person next to them can generate a lot more resources by not handicapping themselves. More to the point, this game has become so easy that a simple AHK script and/or a C++ /cd overlay can play it with absolutely zero chance of being detected as an automation because it has no .dll injection. If I have lost you that's because you don't understand. That is okay, but don't pose handicapping yourself as a solution to this very real problem until you do understand.

 

This New Gaming Enhancement and Combat Upgrade system is opening the door for botters, there is a balance between pandering to people who don't play at certain level, and making the game so simple a couple lines of script can do it. The OP hopes that this balance will be looked at.

 

You want a challenge, you can get challenge.

 

Looking for exuses is just that; looking for exuses.

 

If you go YOUR route, no gear should have better stats than whats easily achieved by everyone, like basic comms gear, as evidently, not geting gearfalted gear is hadicap and we cannot have those.

 

And mentioning NGE and CU just tells us you have NO clue what those were and just heard someone else mentioning them and went the "popular" route. The more you mention them the sillier you look.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Mikahrone