Answer from NYCC Q&A I found kind of amusing...

[Transairion]

Q: "I’m concerned that this is going to be like the NGE for Star Wars: Galaxies"

 

◦Backus- I worked with a lot of the guys over at Galaxies, both in the lead up to the launch of SWTOR, and since–great guys, really. The thing about Galaxies is that it had such a small, tight core of dedicated players that really loved the game and the environment that was created there. But the player base was not very large. In a well-intentioned effort to make the game more accessible, the team brought out the NGE to entice more players in. It was such a dramatic change to the entire nature of the game, however, that it really alienated their core players–their biggest fans. They had anticipated this, but figured that the NGE would bring in more people, revitalizing the game and drawing back players who left. Unfortunately, in their case, people had already made up their mind if they liked the game or not and really didn’t end up coming back.

 

◦That’s why we’re not looking to do any major overhaul of the combat system. You’re not going to suddenly, for example, lose a dozen abilities. We make changes here or there and tweak or improve things, but we aren’t going to dramatically change the playing experience like what happened on Galaxies.

 

 

Not sure if ironic is the correct word to use here, but anyone find it amusing? Emphasis:

 

the team brought out the NGE to entice more players in. It was such a dramatic change to the entire nature of the game, however, that it really alienated their core players–their biggest fans. They had anticipated this, but figured that the NGE would bring in more people, revitalizing the game and drawing back players who left.

 

We make changes here or there and tweak or improve things, but we aren’t going to dramatically change the playing experience like what happened on Galaxies

 

KOTFE anyone?

 

I mean... changing a system like overleveling with Level-Synch, that has been in place for almost four years (longer, if you include Alpha/Beta), that sounds kind of a dramatic change to me. Not to the level of NGE, sure, but it's not some minor thing either.

 

Also of note all the upcoming KOTFE changes that, oddly enough seem very focused towards new players they hope to get, with a lot of the negative things only affecting current or past subscribers. Changes to crafting, achievements being pulled, the list goes on. With the clear assumption being new people in will outnumber old people quitting over negative changes, so alienating people "doesn't matter".

 

 

I just found it funny personally, no KOTFE =/= NGE but the wording used could easily be applied to this expansion and seem kind of similar.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Transairion

[Eleonora]

The sky is falling!

[Pietrastor]

NGE tried to transition SWG from sandbox to instanced themepark gameplay. SWTOR equivalent would have to be removing instances and making everything into sandbox.

 

Of course none of this matters since people just want to use NGE as buzzword/slogan for kicks and easy scare points.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Pietrastor

[Transairion]

NGE tried to transition SWG from sandbox to instanced themepark gameplay. SWTOR equivalent would have to be removing instances and making everything into sandbox.

 

Of course none of this matters since people just want to use NGE as buzzword/slogan for kicks and easy scare points.

 

Oh, I'm not trying to saying KOTFE = NGE or anything.

 

Just found it plenty ironic (is that the word?) there was such a response given. I read it and basically thought: "Hey, NGE did this, this and this and that's why it went bad.... we'd never do that! But we actually kind of are...."

Edited October 9, 2015 by Transairion

[Jerba]

I had the same thought when reading Backus' response. KotFE is definitely turning away many raiders; I've heard of multiple raid groups that will quit shortly after KotFE launches; some of them may come back when the next operation comes out, others won't.

I can see the reasoning behind the changes coming with KotFE and I'm sure they will bring in new players. The main question is if these new players will be as dedicated as the players that are leaving, or if they will just check out the game for a month and then stop.

Time will tell.

[Pietrastor]

Oh, I'm not trying to saying KOTFE = NGE or anything.

Not at all lol

[Transairion]

Not at all lol

 

Well I'm not, so whether you cling to false hope I am or not is kinda irrelevant.

 

 

But it's certainly funny to see "This change to the game alienated old players which they hoped to replace with new players".

 

Certain KOTFE changes are looking to "alienate old players which they hope to replace with new players".

 

 

They seem pretty aware NGE was, well, a BAD IDEA, but it doesn't look like they learned much from it. At least, it seemed really weird to address NGE (well, bring it up then dodge what it has to do with KOTFE almost entirely), when KOTFE is also driving people away they hope to replace.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Transairion

[Icestar]

Also of note all the upcoming KOTFE changes that, oddly enough seem very focused towards new players they hope to get, with a lot of the negative things only affecting current or past subscribers. Changes to crafting, achievements being pulled, the list goes on. With the clear assumption being new people in will outnumber old people quitting over negative changes, so alienating people "doesn't matter".

 

I just found it funny personally.

 

The key to get new subscribers is to have old players speak well of the game, this game will not attract that many new players only because of the expansion. The new potential players will ask around what the previous and current players think of the game.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Icestar

[KyaniteD]

Totally see your point, and yes, it bears some irony. But I don't think that SWTOR has one type of dedicated player that makes up a core player base. I'll boldly assume that SWG core player base was mainly made up of Star Wars fans/RPers, while SWTOR attracted SW fans, Bioware fans, MMO fans, SciFi fans, and as a result the player base is very diverse in motivation, focus and playstyle (as the many controversial discussions on the forums show).

 

I don't think KotFE brings enough fundamental changes to all aspects of the game to cause the entire current player base to break away. In fact, while there are a couple loud and strong player factions, I personally have no trouble believing that there's also a large number of silent players going through the game with a focus on the single player experience, and I can see them appreciating what KotFE does for them.

[TUXs]

Oh, I'm not trying to saying KOTFE = NGE or anything.

 

Just found it plenty ironic (is that the word?) there was such a response given. I read it and basically thought: "Hey, NGE did this, this and this and that's why it went bad.... we'd never do that! But we actually kind of are...."

 

I think you're right...the words he used to describe why SOE made the NGE, seem to be very comparable to many of the things I see happening with 4.0.

 

The scope of the changes are obviously vastly different, but the phrasing could certainly be applied to either update (NGE or 4.0).

[Eillack]

That is hilarious OP. Pure head-up-*** responses from them.

[Quraswren]

I think you're right...the words he used to describe why SOE made the NGE, seem to be very comparable to many of the things I see happening with 4.0.

 

The scope of the changes are obviously vastly different, but the phrasing could certainly be applied to either update (NGE or 4.0).

 

That was my thinking as well. It's all to ironic in how they worded it for NGE to what is happening in SWTOR.

[Lord_Robert]

Compared to the NGE, the changes in 4.0 are minor, not game-changing..

 

Level-synch does not alter how we fundamentally play the game, only adds a tiny bit of difficulty to some things..

4.0 does not fundamentally change crafting, only tweaks the existing system.

and so on, and so forth.

 

Whether you like those changes or not, the effect on the game is not even remotely comparable to the NGE.

Even if one looks at all the announced changes for 4.0 put together, they are deviations of the existing gameplay. Not an entirely new, all-different way of playing.

 

And thus, what the Devs said are true.. They are not doing what the SWG Devs did.

[Costello]

A lot of the answers were bad.

 

A year ago better than cross server queues was mentioned whats happening about it? Nothing. The plan seems to be to dumb the game down as if that will make it more appealing and then more people will be available. More likely they will encourage ******* who found the very basic system we have at the moment too complicated, come back and then make group finder painful as they can't work out how to contribute cause they don't have a companion to carry them through all the content.

 

Space PvE? Nope. So they have given up trying to bring the star to star wars?

 

The engine is **** and doesn't work and makes adding new content incredibly difficult but its not going to get replaced? This makes you wonder what the future is for ToR if they would be better off with a new engine and are in the process of dumbing down most of the game.

 

As for the NGE comment, they overhauled the class progression system in 3.0, and come 4.0 they are overhauling leveling, group quests, crafting, conquest and making the new story stand alone. While offering nothing new for group content or pvp or gsf. Its not a massive leap between the dumbing down of ToR to appeal to more people and the simplification that was the NGE to appeal to more people.

[TUXs]

A lot of the answers were bad.

 

A year ago better than cross server queues was mentioned whats happening about it? Nothing.

No no no....you are missing the point of 4.0. After 4.0, you won't need a group for anything other than Ops. Heroics will be 2+, FPs will be soloable...the "better than cross server" is the fact that you don't need anyone to play with any more.

[kjfett]

This is no NGE.

 

This community is nothing like the one in SW:G.

 

I have to wonder how many of those that compare anything to the NGE were actually there. More specifically, how many were at a level in the game to know what was really going on and what impact it had. I was.

 

Before the NGE:

I ran a guild that had 80 active players during the weeknights and more on the weekends.

 

I ran a lvl5 city on Naboo with over 500 players, many of which were active across numerous guilds.

 

Our server forums were so active, a new thread could fall to page 3 in an hour.

 

I had no level number. I knew where the dangerous animals were on each planet and knew what I could kill or couldn't kill...from experience.

 

I was a Bounty Hunter/ Creature Handler with the best 3 Greater Sludge Panthers a BH could want. I also had another 15 or so pets ranging from big spiders to a rancor that I could call out and play tricks with and help me in combat.

 

Post NGE:

I watched as guild member after member logged in and logged out for the last time.

 

The city became a ghost town as other guilds in the city suffered the same impact ours did.

 

The forums were more like SWTOR's are now.

 

I had a level number and suddenly there were planets with huge animals that could be one-shot and small animals that could kill me easily all based on the planet I was on.

 

My Creature Handler class was removed and all my pets became unusable. My only option was to "stuff" them as statues in my home.

 

Picture that...I had companions I had played with for Years removed and stuffed as statues in my home because of the NGE.

 

Imagine if SWTOR just flat out removed the Companion option from the game and all you could do was look at them in your stronghold! That was how bad the NGE was. 4.0 is nothing compared to that.

[ikinai]

No no no....you are missing the point of 4.0. After 4.0, you won't need a group for anything other than Ops. Heroics will be 2+, FPs will be soloable...the "better than cross server" is the fact that you don't need anyone to play with any more.

 

I play with myself enough to better satisfaction, I'd rather the game not divorce me from the other players more than it already has. But alas, we are no longer new and shiny customers, we are old bread to be thrown out to the waste bin.

[psikofunkster]

Horrible answers, not too smart.

[TUXs]

Horrible answers, not too smart.

 

Nah...I give them a lot of credit for having the balls to answer the question. Picking apart their words is easy to do and the irony is kinda funny...but this is no freaking NGE. 4.0 is a big change, but not anything near NGE style...tbh, it's more similar to the CU.

[TTGolding]

NGE tried to transition SWG from sandbox to instanced themepark gameplay. SWTOR equivalent would have to be removing instances and making everything into sandbox.

 

Of course none of this matters since people just want to use NGE as buzzword/slogan for kicks and easy scare points.

 

No it didnt.

 

The NGE made the game easier to jump right into without having to invest any time or research into how to play properly. It removed the need to grind out a Jedi and made it a starting character if one wanted.

 

In essence the NGE was a move to cater to more casual players by dumbing down and simplifying the game.

 

Level sync and a few other moves are being made in the hopes that the new movie coming out this December attracts a vast supply of new players. Therfor they want the game to be easy to jump right into and be on par with those that have been here for years.

 

That is essentially what the NGE was implemented to do.

Edited October 9, 2015 by TTGolding

[Callaron]

The sky is falling!

 

Once again!

[Transcendent]

cater to more casual players by dumbing down and simplifying the game.

 

4.0 then.

 

Also;

 

That’s why we’re not looking to do any major overhaul of the combat system

 

I read that as;

 

Mainly because the combat team can't even balance the classes / combat system we have, so we'd have no hope on a new system.

[Celise]

what is most amusing from this entire thread is how biased the op is and how easy it is to entertain only one line of thought without giving any respect to what good is to come.

 

im not gonna discuss this NGE for KotFE as its too easy and its like adding fuel to a fire. but what i will say is that the changes coming have yet to be tested out by the players and so right at this point, all that doom mongering is worthless, including this thread. one way or the other it will be known at least several weeks after launch, say around 10th-17th of november.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Celise

[CrazyOldMystic]

Whoever answered that question did not spend much time in nge and did not play the game long enough to know what it was like. First and foremost nge did not kill swg, and you can try to argue that it did, but it did not. What killed swg was the bad press. If you look into the history of the game, you will find, that the game got hit with one bad press scenario after another. The second thing that killed it was false rumors about the game flying around. The amount of people that did not know about city invasions alone, who claimed to have played swg, was staggering My point is bad community management, and not getting the word out about your game, can do more damage to a game then any patch.

 

This is also why when I see something in the cinematic, that they put up, I feel it should be in the game. Also another reason why they need to bring back all the old level 50 end game tier gear, and put it back in the game, and not in the form of cartel market. People see the class trailers and think, oh this game is awesome! Then they get into the game are like ***, this gear was removed from the game? The game being consistent with the message and getting the right message out is important to any games survival.

[SentinelDranoel]

Not sure if ironic is the correct word to use here, but anyone find it amusing? Emphasis:

 

 

 

 

 

KOTFE anyone?

 

I mean... changing a system like overleveling with Level-Synch, that has been in place for almost four years (longer, if you include Alpha/Beta), that sounds kind of a dramatic change to me. Not to the level of NGE, sure, but it's not some minor thing either.

 

Also of note all the upcoming KOTFE changes that, oddly enough seem very focused towards new players they hope to get, with a lot of the negative things only affecting current or past subscribers. Changes to crafting, achievements being pulled, the list goes on. With the clear assumption being new people in will outnumber old people quitting over negative changes, so alienating people "doesn't matter".

 

 

I just found it funny personally, no KOTFE =/= NGE but the wording used could easily be applied to this expansion and seem kind of similar.

 

Not even close. Story was the main selling point of this game. KOTOR 3 is what the KOTOR and Bioware fans originally asked for and not a MMO. They may try to entice new players as always but they are also trying to entice people who have been asking for great single player content in the same style as other Bioware classics.

 

The real question is what will actually retain a huge player base. Raid and Flashpoint based endgame is not doing it so story is getting a second try, this time with a reason to subscribe monthly.

 

Level sync is not really changing the system, as it expands replayability. I am waiting to see after release how that plays out as people complaining may be over exaggerating if their fully geared 60-65 will likely still be too much for early planet content. I think it is a great feature of GW2 and allows people to play in areas they like and not be forced to move to areas they have to in order to gain experience.

Edited October 9, 2015 by SentinelDranoel